Upgrade my CD player or futile effort?

@baylinor,
It should be interesting to see the outcome of your quest.

I’ve tried various CD players over the years and they all sounded more or less the same.

Therefore I stopped at my current deck, the Marantz CD6000ki.

I gradually diverted my energies into finding better masterings of various CD releases over the years - and yes, there are easily discernible differences to be found.

Differences which simply dwarf any of those to be found between any of the CD players I’ve heard, and I’ve heard quite a few.

These included various Marantz and Arcam decks, the Rega Saturn, the Linn CD12, Pioneer SACD, a few UK tuned Sony’s.

The only ones I haven’t heard are those strange hybrids which feature a tube output.

Perhaps it’s also worth bearing in mind that whilst not all LPs were not all equally well recorded and mastered, with CDs the search becomes increasingly more difficult.

It’s far easier unfortunately to compress the sound of a CD than it is of vinyl. Therefore we audiophile fans of mainstream music rarely get to hear just what they are capable of.

Not that those who produce the music could care any less of what we may think.

I appreciate the suggestion for a CD transport. After I see what the DAC is doing, I will probably go down that road. But doing one change at a time is something I need to stick to. In the past I got multiple new parts to my system at once and it became a real challenge to find out what piece had improved what. For now I am excited to see what the Denapris Ares II will do for the CD6005. Patience is a virtue 🙂

I realized you've already committed to a specific upgrade but I'll add my 2 cents anyway.  As important as a DAC may be, the transport is at least equally significant.  The elimination of vibration and an accurate reading of the disc is where all the sound originates.  If that part of the system is inferior, everything which follows will suffer.

That being said, if you ever want to jump into the DEEP end of the CD player world, probably the best CD player ever made is the Naim CD555, coupled with the Naim 555 power supply.  It's even better when using two of the 555 power supplies, one to power the analog circuitry and the other to power the digital circuitry.  This is what I use along with a very high end analog system.  (Kuzma Stabi XL DC turntable w/ the Kuzma 14" 4 point tonearm and a Koetsu Rosewood Signature Platinum cartridge)  All of this plays into a Naim Statement system and then into Grandinote Mach 36 speakers.  All the cables are Luna (Noir).

Anyway, the Naim CD 555 is very expensive and is no longer in production (since 2017) but you can occasionally find one on the used market (as I did) for around $15,000 (including the power supply)

Personally, if you intend to stick to the CD medium at all, I suggest a transport + external DAC option as have many others posting so far. The Cambridge CXC-V2 is inexpensive ($550) and has a good reputation for reliability and customer service (per the local shop and scattered reviews anyway). I own one and use it with a Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ and it seems satisfying.
The other question is: Do you intend to use CDs into the future? While the medium is supposedly moribund, there are thousands of these on the used market for very low prices. That alone is enticing to me (especially given the close proximity of a fabulous music store nearby).
So, I think you could get a very nice CD playback setup for not too much money and use the savings to buy used discs (or upgrade the rest of your system).

Quick weigh-in as the owner of a Bryston BCD-3. For years I was using a Rotel RCD-971 CD player, a mid-line winner of many honors, modified with an upgraded clock from LC Audio to reduce jitter and their amazing Zapfilter, a single-end Class A analog stage that bypassed the opamps. I thought I was the boss. It was great. The Rotel finally wore out a board that could not be replaced and after a lot of research I went in for the Bryston. Well, it blew that little Rotel right out of the water. The refinement, tone, depth and clarity of sound is stunning. It's truly a high-end, mature and beautiful piece of equipment. It's also relatively inexpensive compared to the high-quality transport/DAC setups out there that would compete with it. There is no SACD. It's just a no-frills spinner. The tray, too, is very stable and girded by steel bars. I love it. 

I upgraded recently from a Denon DCD 1600NE to a Marantz SACD 30N and must say I'm enjoying the *new* Marantz sound.
CD/SACD player, proprietary Dac, Streamer & PreAmp. 
Nice upgrade that didn't break the bank.

I had the Marantz 8005  years ago.  Great midrange but rolled off the top end

Not a Futile effort. Upgrade the CD player. Thank me later.

Happy Listening!

Lots saying that Marantz cd players suck! Bull....they make some very nice cd players and have won awards year after year on s few...my marantz hd cd-1 is a very nice player, however I run it into a Border Patrol r2r dac with a tubed power supply. Sounds great. The hd cd-1 is out of production, but if you can find one used, it's a good choice. I'd also have to agree on a previous poster concerning the Marantz SA8005. It is also great and built like a tank, also discontinued. 

Given your equipment at a minimum I would recommend a Schiit Yggy if you want to go the budget route. The Yggdrasil will compare well with DACs significantly more expensive. But unless you kick you digital end up a few notches it is going to continue to sound terrible in contrast to your analog end. For years I made investments that were futile because the analog end sounded so much better. Trying out real budget stuff isn’t going to be cost effective in pursuit of high sound quality.

you ought ot like the Densfrips.  But keep in mind that it you feed it dirty, jittery, input (its actually not digital, its semi analog due to timing, which is the problem) you can still get very mediocre sound.
You must pay attention to the front end, and SPDIF (the normal CD player digital out)  is not pick of the litter.

Nice confirmation, thanks. I think it was a sensible step forward for me in digital.

I have a Marantz 6006 that I use as transport in my system. I listen to LP, stream- Qubuz, and CD. I have an entry level system that to me sounds very satisfying. I was steared towards trying Nobsound springs and found a positive improvement as a result, 35$. Real good starting point to see what the Marantz can do, and anything after potentially.

happy listening 

I have the CD6006 and the Ares II is a very nice upgrade...there are so many options if after listening you decide to upgrade again...and the Ares II is easy to sell...

I would have to agree that you could upgrade to an improvement with almost any brand from a $600 Marantz CD player; however, I have heard some $25,000 CD players that sound worse than a $1,000 player. The sweet spot is probably somewhere in the $4,000-12,000 price range.  If you like Marantz, why not try their new SA-10 SACD player? 

I too have a great analog system and I listen mostly to vinyls, after doing my own research I ended buying a vintage Sony CD player with 19 bit dac and the oversampling it definitely  makes a difference. 
SONY X77ES
That CD player weighs about 50 lbs! but it has the magic for me

Luxman, Hegel, and Bryston all make superb one-box CDPs. Parasound used to make one, too, that might be found used. That is the “keep it simple” solution. Almost as simple, Black Ice makes a tube hybrid DAC with a built-in transport that you could try out that could be used later with a Node or Vault to get streaming into your life. 

Done deal!
Ordered the R2R Denafrips Ares II
Couldn't have done it without you guys input.

As Yakbob has stated clearly, and others have said, you have a huge imbalance in your digital vs analog. Who do you think a $500 mediocre even at that CDP will compare with your TT costing > 10X that? I mean digital can be great, BTU its not magic....

So why do you believe it might be futile? share.

I wont repeat the pages and pages that i have posted on how to get digital to sing, nor can i quote all the others who have, in thread after thread given of their knowledge. But rather than ask a superficial question, I’d suggest reading that trove of info.

Bottom line, while the are different, i generally prefer great digital to great vinyl, in part because the great music may not be on audiophile vinyl, but it may well be remastered on digital. I’m talking 10s of 1000s of titles on, say Tidal or Qobuz.

While it is much more complicated, i can also say that without question, streaming can be superior to any CDP, **all other things held constant**. You know, one variable per equation.

You will spend vastly more money than you have so far on digital, and even more in terms of time and effort to get it right. yes, there are many ways to get digital wrong. But i can get truly great sound with <$1k DACs. Beware though, i may have that much or more in stream, network, bridges, and idolators before it hits the DAC (USB - SPDIF has issues).

Will digital sound like analog? Honestly no. In many ways it will be vastly better. In others it will fall short of some euphonics.

I was an analog bigot until a couple years back. No more!

Lumin U-1 mini = 2000.00

Your DAC of choice @ 1000.00

Synology NAS = 500.00

Rip all your seedees to the hard drive and enjoy. You can also stream Qobuz with this set up. Hands down better than any cdp you can buy at that price. But in the end, your vinyl rig will probably still win the day, just by not as much.

Oz

@oldaudiophile.Yes, I have it set to audio EX 2, always have. It still is not in the league of some of the new DACs from what I now understand.

You guys are the best! A lot of very good advice from many different directions. The one that resonate to me is do one improvement at a time. Been guilty of not doing that in the past. The other one that comes back most often is get an external DAC and keep the current  transport. I am totally in line with that. I spent quite a few hours now reviewing my options. It seems that the starting range that may please me in a DAC is $700. Of course it can get better from there, but that may be enough to get my toes wet. Anyhow, so far I am considering the following:
-Schiit Bifrost 2.
5 year warranty and 15 days return!
-Denafrips aresII
-Topping D70S, (the D90SE may be too revealing for my system)
-Musicians Pegasus, sounds like a winner, but reliability questions with a brand new company concern me. 
Some other DACs in that price range mentioned here include headphones preamps which I don't need since I have the Schiit Asgard 3. No sense paying for that. As I said earlier streaming won't be for me, I need the tactile part of my music collection. Over 2,000 vinyl and about 400 CDs. 
So just need a simple no bells and whistles straight DAC with RCA out and coaxial in (no optical, got it!) and will hook it up to my Prima Luna 100 tube preamp. I just have to decide between those based on sound characteristics which can get overwhelming in the many reviews. Please chime in some more if you experienced the sound of any of those. Thanks to all.

@baylinor, I haven't read this entire thread. So, if someone else has already touched upon this or if you are already aware of this, I apologize for the redundancy.

Assuming you are using reasonably good interconnects with the CD6005 and using it as a player and not as a transport, do you have it switched to its "Audio EX 2" sound mode? This is covered in the manual and easy to do (i.e. the push of a button). "Audio EX 2" sound mode will give you the best audio the CD6005 is capable of. Will that be better than your vinyl play? Assuming reasonably good vinyl care and play habits... no. However, "Audio EX 2" sound mode will be a touch better than what you're getting now. It will be a subtle but noticeable improvement.

Another option is to use the CD6005 as a transport with a better DAC. However, the DAC in the CD6005 is pretty good. IMHO, it's on par with the MAC DA1. Will you find the audio produced by a better, high-end DAC better than what you're getting from your vinyl play now? Well, only your ears can decide that. Personally, pound for pound, dollar for dollar, I have yet to hear any digital media that sounds better than a good vinyl set-up.

I went with the RME ADI-2-DAC fs that hshifi mentions and love it. It has more features surrounding the actual DAC than the competitors, but that might be more than you want to deal with. I am in total agreement with the above advice that you change one thing only to start with. That would be the DAC. Keep it separate from the transport player so you can upgrade either as you desire in the future. I even think the Topping Dx7 Pro would improve your system and it would cost a lot less to try. Buy from a place where you can return it, no questions asked, if you don't think it is a major improvement or to your liking. Plus, it comes with a nice headphone amp, so you can find more places to spend your money in the future. :)I have ripped all my CDs and find I rarely listen to either the actual CD or the ripped version. I started with Qobuz and thought it was great, then tried Amazon Music HD and never looked back. It sounds great and it probably has any CD you have plus tons more. It has a great interface to pick an artist and it lists all their hits to see if there are ones you like. It also has so much artist and album information to get lost in for...you pick the timeframe.  Don't get me wrong, I am not a Jeff Besos' fan, but there is a reason why they are the largest at what they choose to do. Just my opinion, but I chose to not buy into the MQA/artist platform (Tidal).Have fun!

A dedicated CD transport and an external DAC is definitely the way to go.  I endorse the Audiolab 6000 CDT as a very good transport; there are lots of really excellent DACs.  You don't have to spend more than $2000-3000 total to have something approaching state-of-the-art CD reproduction (note that I said "approaching" - not "reaching").  I am sure you will be a lot happier with CD sound than you are now.

Budget... new or used?

Hello,
The Ares is a nice DAC but I would stick with a chip based DAC. The R2R can sound a little warm or unresolved with your system. You might want to try the RME. The reason is you can set up the sound to your preferences. It will be slightly less musical than a Chord. But a good starting point into the DAC world. Plus it comes with a remote. If you feel this is for you they have a black version that steps it up a notch. I hope this helps. 

Whether DAC or new player the question is what makes them sound better than your modest unit?
Answer: Internal analog amplification circuit, power supply and filtering capacitors. Look under the hood.
I have a Marantz SA8005 SACD player and if you look for online pics of the chassis you will see what I mean.
The analog amplification circuitry gives the sound its drive, dynamics and energy as well as freedom from noise. The SA8005 does this quite well but is out of production.
The newer Maranttz SACD players do this well too.
I also have a Luxman D05 which uses an R core transformer power supply, the best IMHO. Lower noise and improved dynamics.
As others have mentioned The D03X is an excellent sounding player.
I prefer a one box solution. However there are some excellent DACs with robust power supplies. Look under the hood at online pics.  Avoid DACs or players with empty chassis.  

FWIW I am waiting on Esoteric K-05XD and the K-07XD SACD players which should be released in a couple of months.  Rave reviews for the K-01XD and the K-03XD which have been out for a couple of years now.  All the Esoteric models have among the best tray mechanisms in the world, and the new "XD" versions have a much-improved DAC.  So you get a phenomenal transport and a fantastic DAC all in one.  They have all kinds of digital inputs to use the DAC in the player.  For me, it's a no-brainer upgrade.  But first I'd like to demo when they come out.  Guessing in the $7500-10K range, so not cheap.  But again, it's a player-- 2-in-1 transport and DAC that has USB input, among other inputs.  And they play SACD's.

OP, you stated "Obviously now I know going with a better CDP without a DAC is worthless." Not obvious, and not true.  I recently plugged my Oppo UDP205 into my den (main) system; it had been anchoring my home theater since purchased (ca 2017) on a system that was more pro and less audiophile.  My den system had been using either a Sony S9000ES SACD player or Pioneer Elite BDP05, both of which were about 20 years old (and consequently 20 year-old DAC technology). Holy smoke!  Soundstage, frequency range and dynamics galore!  I know a lot of A'goners bitch about the Oppo DAC, but the point is, a good quality CD/SACD player runs circles around older CDP's, and you shouldn't discount them.  Look at current models from Luxman, Marantz, and Technics, to name  few (which should set you back $3K-4K).  Or you can try the separate DAC route, but try to avoid the optical connection if you can help it.

I had an Ares II and was happy with that but dove a little deeper and got the Pontus II; didn't see what your budget was (will assume you're "dipping your toe in"), so there's a lot of people here that will offer more expensive and better quality options here than what I'm suggesting.  There's a $1000 jump from the Ares II to the Pontus II but I felt it was worth it, but I stream heavily and use my CD transport when the mood strikes me (Cambridge Audio CXC V2; had the Audiolab one but preferred the CXC) .  I would second the suggestion that you get a DAC that works for you feature-wise and hook up your Marantz to that first - only change one thing at a time, and it might actually be the DAC in it that's poochy.  There's a bunch of good DACs out there for whatever price point you're at so it's unlikely you're going to get a dog.  Any Denafrips DAC are going to be the ones with the least B&W so no bluetooth, remote, or wireless capability, and if you buy directly from Vinshine there's no return policy if you don't like it.  I've had a number of Topping products and they've all measured well, were packed full of features and sounded good but never moved me enough to keep them.  I hear many raves for the Jay's Audio transport but we're talking about $2400 and it's a top loader so that has to be accommodated.  Alternative: the Bluesound products have an OK DAC built into them and allow you to get into streaming at a low cost; requires you install their BluOS software which works very well (I think) on either your smartphone or computer - no fees or subscription needed.  You can stream internet radio for free or play any flac files through it, and you can always bypass the DAC in it if you get a better one and use it only as a streamer.

Cheap enough to try a DACS…https://www.topping.audio/productinfo/645180.html

OP

As others have indicated, your problem is your lousy Marantz CD player.  A new DAC will make an enormous improvement.  You may want to consider a new CDP that allows for digital inputs-essentially these are DACs that spin CDs..  Then you can upgrade the transport at the same time and ditch the Marantz and not have another box and cabling issues.
  OP indicated that he uses digital to explore new artists.  Streaming would probably fit his needs better, since most services offer huge catalogs and also suggest new artists based on your previous selections.  I would also consider a DAC streamer and keep the Marantz for CD transport 

I used a Marantz SA11S1 cd player for years but now use a Audiolab6000CDT cd transport into a Gustard X26pro DAC..Big improvement in every way.. much closer to my vinyl set-up sq wise (SL1200G/ART9/SPL Phonos)

I have a Denifrips Aries 2 and am exceptionally happy with its performance. So much so I have ceased using my CA Blu Ray / SACD as a transport and bought an Audiolab 6000 CDT. A big improvement. I previously owned the Marantz CD 6004 and my new set up is much better. I agree with an earlier comment many vinyl fans have $5000+ vinyl set up and say it does not compare to a $500 CD, I should think that is likely to be the case. I gave up on my Garrard 401 / SME TT as I could not live with rumble and surface noise any longer. Of course CD is also light years ahead in convenience. I have tried streaming with Marantz NA 7004, not good, I loaned a CA 851 N a little better, eventually settled on a micro rendu / audirvana etc set up, a bit better but poor reliability and no better sound than CD. Hope my experience helps. BTW other components Vincent SA 31 MK / SP 331 MK, Audio Physic Sitara 25's and 2 Denfinitive Technology Supercubes, unfortunately squeezed in a 3.3 x 4.5 m Room. 2 subs help with bass more even and AP's are really good small floor standers for my size room.

baylinor OP
My question is, would I benefit from a better CD player, even so the CD6005 is no slouch, or am I gonna end up in a goose chase?

 Get yourself a decent R2R dac (eg Holo May) and a good CD transport, then only get the non compressed CD’s (usually the early ones) green is good yellow red bad, then you "may" convert from your vinyl!!

Only album they ever did.
https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list/year?artist=Traveling+Wilburys

And the Boss.
https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list/year?artist=Bruce+Springsteen&album=Born+To+Run

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ&ab_channel=MattMayfieldMusic

Cheers George

OP, is streaming in your future?

Baylinor Writing from experience I can inform you that an external dac such as the Topping D90 or latest SE version will enhance your current cd player. An external dac at that price will defeat the ability of any internal cd dac to at least a $2000 + player.
Roon Rock in my experience sounds way way superior to the delivery of $2000 cd players and better than jriver etc. Use an intel nuc. See Darko Youtube channel for guidance.
To bring sound quality up your analogue TT level streaming from hard drive ie copying your own cds to become source will save you thousands.

Bought a used Ayon CD-5s from an Audiogon member as was stunned by the difference between this unit and my Marantz.  Layers of music I've never heard before.  Depth, nuance, realism, silence. In many ways better or at least equal to vinyl without the pops.  If I was you, I'd seriously look at a quality tube CD player.  

+1 for the Luxman D-03X. Great sounding CD player, excellent detail with a warm(ish) sound. Silent in operation too.

Add a Luxman c-03x cd player. It has an excellent DAC. You should see a big improvement.

You describe the sonic downfall of digital. First, I would use your current cd player as a transport for another DAC. Then, I would try another transport and maybe an R2R DAC. No reason to make any changes if you can't hear these changes.

I’ll chime in to.  Keep your CD player and get a better DAC. I’ve had great results with Schiit, Chord and Denofrips. I kept a Schiit Bifrost and got rid of others when I bought a Hegel H390 as it has a surprisingly good DAC in it.

All the best.

JD

I’ll chime in to.  Keep your CD player and get a better DAC. I’ve had great results with Schiit, Chord and Denofrips. I kept a Schiit Bifrost and got rid of others when I bought a Hegel H390 as it has a surprisingly good DAC in it.

All the best.

JD

And I agree with an earlier post, don’t use the optical output of an old CD player and expect great sound even with a new DAC. You will be disappointed and think you made a mistake going down this path. 

With the rest of your gear I’m not sure why you think a Topping D70 would satisfy you. The Topping D90SE gets much better reviews and is still around $900. And there are SO many more but it sounds like you are just trying to “dip your toe in” to modern digital which may not satisfy you. But here is an option that would let you listen to your CDs, get a modern DAC and even dip your toe into streaming. Get yourself a Bluesound Vault 2i and each time you want to listen to a CD you rip it instead to the Vault’s hard drive. Then you get a Topping D90SE or equivalent as an external DAC for the Vault. Assume you have a WiFi connection the side benefit is you can try one of the “hi def” streaming services on a free trial (AmazonHD, Tidal, Spotify Premium when it comes out in CD quality later this year). Win, win and win from a tad over $2,000.  And there is a very active secondary market in these so if you don’t like it, you can sell it all and start over for not very much out of pocket. And if do like it but want more there are infinite upgrade paths from there. 

You might want to try the Rotel RCD-1572 Cd player for around 1k very good reviews, and i also own 2 of them along with a Simaudio moon 360 d which you might be able to find for just under 2k if you look.