It would help if you told us what kind of turntable you're using and if you're having any issues with it now. Not every turntable in every system will benefit from an isolation platform.
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Depending on the details of your situation Townshend Pods, or Platform. If the turntable is fairly massive (like 20lbs or more) sometimes Pods can be used directly under the table. This is the best relatively inexpensive solution. (Nobsound springs are the budget answer.) If the table is light, or if it uses an outboard motor like mine then you would put it on a shelf or sand box with Pods under that. Townshend Platform, which basically is Pods attached to a constrained layer damped platform. Costs more than Pods but the performance is a little better too owing to the constrained layer damped platform. My table is on a BDR Source Shelf and very massive so I use Pods under the Shelf. You can do this with a butcher block shelf or sand box or whatever. All of these options are a more performance for a lot less money than alternatives. The main question is which one will work best in your situation. |
I do not have experience with Critical Mass, but can attest that HRS has an excellent customer service, should you need to modify your platform down the road. I had to get low frequency absorbing feet when I changed furntables and they were super responsive in making sure that I got the right product. |
Why do you need isolation platform? Isolation from what? Hi-Fi rack or some nice and heavy wooden furniture is more than enough for a good turntable. People are crazy about springs and all that BS. If you have some problems with bass feedback or your needle skip then tell about it. If you don’t have any problem you don’t need isolation platform. |
That table is close to 30lbs. I would try Pods first. That is an expensive table but those cone footers, you could actually put one Pod under each one. It will probably be better however to bypass the whole thing and put the Pods directly under the turntable base. Probably the best will be if you can remove the CA feet and replace them with Pods. Probably won't want to mess with that though I am betting. Even though it probably will be the best or certainly the most cost-effective solution. I would call John Hannant at Townshend. He helped me with mine. Vibration control with turntables almost always comes down to the details of each table and situation. John has a lot of experience with that, which is probably how he was able to help me so much. |
No doubt in my mind that the Critical Mass is good. I do want to check out the HRS to hear how it performs in my room. I am not a impulse buyer as I have learned from the past. Just needed some options on some of the popular cutting edge platforms. I do appreciate all of your input on this matter. And a special thanks to Millercarbon on the record clamp. I did end up machining my own record clamp. With washer and threaded spindle. |
Quote "Why do you need isolation platform? Isolation from what? Hi-Fi rack or some nice and heavy wooden furniture is more than enough for a good turntable. " People are crazy about springs and all that BS. " @chakster Your both sides of ignorant and ignorance here. Constantly you demean others for wanting what your to ignorant to know or understand how or why. Assuming only you know best because your to cheap and to full of yourself to learn thus making it frustrating for others to learn without the imperialistic non experienced based drek. I find the irony in this less amusing as it is just outright ignorance. Those two middle of the pack TurnTables that you decry as the best ever Luxman PD 444 .....The bloody feet have SPRINGS in them as well as rubber and silicone grease and steel rings........better ditch those eh...I mean who needs that BS , eh , according to you... I didn't know they had Ostrichs in Mother Russia...with a lack of sand we can see what and where you place yours..... Springs are not a new revelation, just improved and defined...The actual designers thought they we important enough in your two Mid Fi tables..... |
Yes, Luxman PD-444 has build-in springs inside their feet (those are not soft springs, because it’s super heavy turntable), but this is the way this turntable designed, no additional spring or isolation platform required. See my point? When I say people are crazy about springs I mean people who think the springs required under everything. The spring is their favorite topic. My point is do not try to fix a problem if there is no problem at all. Instead of isolation platform like MINUS-K (not sure how many people can afford it) it can be a custom made rack or table or just a rack from hi-fi store designed for audio components. A good turntable already isolated, and you don’t have to be in vacuum completely isolated on a space ship to enjoy your vinyl, ok? I see so many pyramids build by audiophiles under their turntables, they put springs on spring with those butcvher blocks, squash balls, spikes whatever. My questin is alwayы the same: "why?". If you think I have only luxman Turntable you’re wrong, I have many different turntables, what I do not have is bass feedback or any problem that require additional isolation, this is why I’m asking the OP why he’s looking for isolation platform? Just because some people using them ? I designed a custom made rack (filled with sand), it’s on spikes, the rack made for my PD-444, as you can see the Tannoy with 15 inch driver is near (pneumatic insulator under Tannoy as you can see). My turntable is "isolated", no bass feedback, nothing. I can knock on turntable plinth and there is nothing in the speakers picked up my my MC cartridge. Ignorance @has2be ? What is the problem with your turntables if you need so many things to "isolate" it ??? There is a volcano nearby or you are hammering the floor while the needle is in the groove? I really don’t understand. Technics made SL1200G and 300 people can jump on the dancefloor dancing all nigh, even in this case nobody use isolation platforms and needles do not skip if everything adjusted correct with 2-3g tracking force. Since the 70’s people widely using Technics turntables in the night clubs (before Technics the Garrard and Thorens have been used there), normally there is a rack, sometimes there is a piece of slate on the rack (table) under the turntables. Nowadays it can be isonoe footers, nothing else. But believe me the sound pressure in the night clubs is nowhere near to your home audio and I believer you are alone in the listening room, I guess 300 people are not dancing on the same floor when you’re in your listening chair at home? Isolation from what ? Turntable already isolated for home use, just put it on a stable rack or wooden furniture and enjoy the music if you can. In my opinion it’s better to use a solid rack on spikes than to put some "isolation platform" on a floppy shaking lightweight table. Lightweight turntables on soft springs are shaking from a wind out of your window. |
I think the point might be that your Luxman turntables do have spring-loaded and damped feet. So yes, the Luxman should need nothing more than a solid rack, and sand is an excellent isolating material under such a turntable as yours. In fact, any springy shelf or support under your Luxman is contra-indicated, because then you have the potential for two very different suspending systems to interact in a negative way so as to make matters much worse. However, if your turntable is completely lacking in any sort of suspension or other isolating mechanism, then the addition of some sort of vibration or energy absorbing platform or feet or pods or whatever you want to call it may be merited. In this latter case, it almost doesn't matter what you do; something is better than nothing most of the time. In my opinion, the best set-up is to put a Minus-K or Herzan or Vibraplane platform under an unsuspended turntable. Townshend Platform looks like a nice solution, too, if cost is an object. As you point out, the OP hasn't said he is having a problem with feedback. This is why I asked the OP to describe any built-in isolating mechanism in his Clearaudio turntable. Some of the other guys seem to know more than I do about that and have seen fit to try to advise him without too much feedback, so far, from the OP. All's well that ends well. |
Some of us human beings only have a living room for a television and a 2 channel listing space. All I know is on my BDI entertainment cabinet in between my two Wilson Alexx speakers I was surprised to see how much better the turntable performed the base was tighter the detail was far better. I’m fully aware times are tough out there and people are on edge all I was looking for was some information on other turn table platforms. To those of you who gave positive input and recommendations I thank you for your positive response to help me with my decision. |
And a special thanks to Millercarbon on the record clamp. I did end up machining my own record clamp. With washer and threaded spindle. Latest improvement, TA-102 tape. The thick one. Cut one piece round with a hole in it to slide over the spindle and then trim to fit your washer. This goes on top so the record rests against this vibration absorbing tape. Depending on your washer you might want to put tape on the bottom as well. Or a very thin layer of Blue-Tack. Then use one or two of the narrow pre-cut strips to go around the bottom edge of the clamp. So both edges the record contacts fO.q tape. If you use a reflex clamp this is all you need to do. If yours screws down like mine then use a piece of thin plastic sheet between the tape and the record to reduce friction and avoid marking the label. Simple, cheap, highly effective. Run a strip or two along the under side of the tone arm tube. Trim a piece to fit between cartridge and head shell. Put some more on the counter weight, base, motor, etc. One piece at a time to evaluate. Don't be like the guy who saw me say this and then thinking a little good a lot better wrapped his whole arm in it! |
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One thing hardly mentioned here is the construction of the dwelling where your system exists. My system is located on the second floor of a 120 year old house in upstate NY with mostly a sandy terrain. Hardly on a bedrock foundation. Every situation is different due to many factors. My TT is very old with almost no sound dampening in the feet. Is roughly 25 pounds. Millercarbon responded to my previous post and had a very good suggestion.....springs. For my situation, I decided to try them. Certainly Townshend would be the best option but I went with Nobsound springs since they are much cheaper in price than Townshend just to see if the springs added any benefit. They did. The Nobsound seem a bit crude since they house a number of springs but possible to remove springs to accommodate the weight of the table. Other recommendations mentioned here are certainly worth checking out. Just wanted to offer my experience. |
I have my Gold Note Mediterraneo table spikes(3)sitting on 3 SSC Netpoint 300’s, which sit on a 2" thick wooden butchers block, which is seated on 5 Nobsound springs on a Salamander A6 walnut stand for they’re base. My form of "table isolation" cost me all of $250 to do, plus the little L shaped level sitting on the butcher block. |
All you need is butcher block acoustics walnut or Maple slab. Place it on top of several vibrapods spaced symmetrically. Very economical solution. Better yet, place the slab on top of both vibrapods and their companion cones....still a helluva lot cheaper than HRS or the like. I think they call it the vibrapod sandwich. Ultimately, I would place the turntable on a made for turntable wall shelf mounted preferably to a dry wall dressed concrete wall. Then use the above vibrapods and butcher block acoustics slab. |
A couple to consider. Call Pete, he will make you a custom size by request for no additional cost from the closest stock size. https://postimg.cc/s1gG8NyX/bc296975 http://symposiumusa.com/segueiso.html http://symposiumusa.com/SegueISOViews.html Or http://symposiumusa.com/quantumsignature.html |
I have the HRS M3X2-1719 isolation base under my Rega P6. Yes, the base cost more than the table but I plan to upgrade TT moving forward. My TT is mounted on a foundation wall but one of my subwoofers is very close to the TT. I have been really pleased with the performance of the HRS - I’ve only had one instance where I heard feedback to the table but that was before I dialed in the setup. I have not had any issues in the past 2 years whatsoever and I tend to play loud. I feel kind of odd providing an on- topic post give the history of this string. Matt |
Hi.Check with Music Direct and/or The Cable Company for Pneuance Audio Pneupod Pneumatic Isolation Device (footers) www.pneuance.com. You can try them with 30 day return. There are adapters for the Innovation Series tables which are not needed for your flat bottomed table. The chief designer at Clearaudio has a set of Pneupods sent for audition for the Innovation and loves them. You may not need an additional platform, though they can work with them. They add the isolation and suspension many modern tables, with a few exceptions, need but are lacking. |
Wow, a lot of interesting mythology here. Iconicaudio, This is a very simple problem from the perspective of a turntable. You need to keep all vibration higher than 3 Hz from getting to the record and cartridge. That requires a mechanical filter tuned to less than 3 Hz which requires knowing the exact weight of your turntable. Check out the MinusK web site and look what it takes to order one. Minusk makes the best isolation platforms in the world today. They started making them only for scientific equipment then they realized they were missing out on a huge market, audiophiles. They are not cheap but this will give you an idea what it takes. If the web site doesn't ask you the exact weight of your turntable and have platforms broken up into 4 or 5 ranges then forget it, like Critical Mass which is nothing more than marketing BS. MinusK will also tell you what frequency the platform is tuned to given the weight of the turntable. There may be other less expensive and viable options on the market like the Townsend platform but I have never played with one. There are many poorly tuned or unstable turntable suspensions out there. |
Turn Table rack by “MapleShade” uses three 4” solid Maple shelves. Turntable sits on top at just the right height for playing vinyl. Vibration is greatly cut down by its design...four solid thick metal rods are secured and screwed in Tightly on the bottom and top of each shelve. Very attractive as well. |
I have a Garrard 301 mounted in an Acustand Solid Plinth2, so I don't use a separate platform. Just three IsoAcoustics Orea Indigo feet is all I need. My 'table sits on a heavy mid-century modern buffet. I can strike the buffet with a mallet while an LP is playing with the plinth sitting on the IsoAcoustics feet with nary a skip or a jump. Strike the plinth itself the same way and all hell breaks loose. I used Sorbothane footers before the IsoAcoustics Orea feet and they were about half as effective. |
Check out this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rgK0YMsJXM |
@iconicaudio There are quite a number of good solutions available, most of which have been mentioned above. I did plenty of reading and research and ended up choosing the Symposium Acoustics Segue ISO. I also added their Rollerblock Jr. HDSE. The combination of those products provided excellent results in better defined bass, a slightly better soundstage, and very precise imaging. I would suggest that you read a lot of reviews and educate yourself to make what you believe will be the best decision for you. If you wish to learn more about the Symposium Segue ISO then contact them and speak directly with Peter (owner of the company). He is easy to speak with, a wealth of knowledge on the science of isolation and vibration control (both internal and external), and is very glad to share that knowledge and discuss your specific needs. Easy to find their website and contact information. Good luck to you on your quest. |
+1 SRA-Silent Running Audio platform. Recommended to me by Ralph Karsten, my Ohio Class platform under my Woodsong Garrard 301 was transformative. The improvement in SQ was huge. SRA builds these platforms to specifically function for the component. They allow the TT to fully function as designed. As they do with preamps, amps, electron microscopes, MRI units, nuclear submarines, etc. SRA’s upper line are actually named Ohio Class and Virginia Class. And the entry level, also great, VR platform in only $1500. The only issue is that they are so back ordered it takes many months to get one. |
Thanks for all the great information about the platform. I am carefully observing all the feedback. I just wanted to add that the structure of the listing room is on a concrete slab with one wall in standard red brick with the ceiling and remaining three walls are old school plaster. Floor is carpeting. |
You have no point. Just more blovient drek. You only make excuses when called out for your misinformed imperialistic opinions, period. I did not get anything you posted. Graphite is the color/finishing and the plinth in another thread was recommended due its DESIGN (not material), in every links I posted about "graphite plinth" in another thread you can clearly read "slate plinth". Maybe you can’t read? Something funny here? I wish others to find a properly designed turntable first to save on additional springs and isolation. A good turntable isolated by designer who made a turntable with integrated plinth using feet and various damping materials. It's a final product. Always the mine is better BS , it’s the one constant you bring. Reality is.....you don’t. You have opinions based on your narrow view of the world according to you while dismissing all others and their choices. I can advice something only from my perspective and from my point of view, with my experience with many turntables. A bit of common sense always nice to add somethimes. I know , I know more than you ever will on many things audio and analog.....only because I learn from others experiences by listening to them ,and trying through experience.... while you disrespect and dismiss them for having differing views and tastes and ignorant of their needs and insulting their choices. You are just a snob if you post stuff like this. Industry professional have been using turntables for over 40 years without any esoteric solutions. Look at the best broadcast studios. Audiohiles like you always trying to hear that nobody can hear, they are trying to make things much more complicated for people who don't need it.
I could explain who you’re very simple in a few words, but I do not insult people on audiogon like you do now.
I have mine on heavy metal rack placed on wooden floor for decades, no issues at all. All turntable are direct drive from Victor, Denon, Technics, Luxman. Look, I don’t have to destroy my walls, rack can be always placed on the floor (very simple, you know). But I know they exist and I know there is many more options and reasons and price points than just your narrow view for others to march too. Name dropping middle of the road models and brands like its the gold standard,..... then call others choices as toys and wastes of money...criticizing what you don’t own or know about in ignorance... it gets old the first time...let alone the thousandth..... now since you like to brand and model drop....I think I’ll switch to the P3 Exclusive tonight and pine my regret for letting my PD 444 go 4 decades ago ..... sleep tight Sheldon...😏 If funny when you think other people choices can hurt me, I am happy for your more expensive Pioneer P3, this is a very good example of properly isolated turntable and don’t tell me you need anything else under this turntable for better isolation, except for a proper rack or, if you wish, a wall mount. If you sold your less expensive Luxman turntable 40 years ago, how old are you ? Enjoy what you have....sincerely...you can’t be enjoying or buying your own BS if you need to beat everything else down, ignorant of even how often you contradict yourself here... Old people are like children sometimes, very sensitive. I will continue to by my own BS because the BS people are using here is the worst SB or too expensive BS. If a user need a pyramid of materials like butcher blocks, additional springs, spikes, bearings and all that stuff together then turntable design is 100% BS, let’s face it. My philosophy is very simple: Buy a nice turntable, put it on a hi-fi rack or on a nice table and enjoy the music! |
You have no point. Just more blovient drek. You only make excuses when called out for your misinformed imperialistic opinions, period. I did not get anything you posted. Graphite is the color/finishing and the plinth recommended due its DESIGN (not material), in every links I posted about graphite plinth in another thread you can clearly read "slate plinth". Maybe you missed that? I wish others to find a properly designed turntable first to save on additional springs and isolation. A good turntable isolated by designer who made a turntable with integrated plinth using feet and various damping materials. Always the mine is better BS , it’s the one constant you bring. Reality is.....you don’t. You have opinions based on your narrow view of the world according to you while dismissing all others and their choices. I know , I know more than you ever will on many things audio and analog.....only because I learn from others experiences by listening to them ,and trying through experience.... while you disrespect and dismiss them for having differing views and tastes and ignorant of their needs and insulting their choices. You are just a sn*b if you post stuff like this. Industry professional have been using turntables for over 40 years without any esoteric solutions. Look at the best broadcast studios. Everybody can watch Chad Kassem and his mastering console at Asoustic Sounds for A/B comparison, do you see any isolation or springs under turntables, except for a massive wood table? Properly designed turntable must be placed direct on the table or rack. Here is an example of my custom made rack (not pained) for Luxman turntable, but I think everyone can make a custom rack for whatever turntable, but rack must be heavy, all those butcher blocks are too light, all those springs are unstable and turntable is shaking.
I could explain who you’re very simple in a few words, but I do not insult people on audiogon like you do now.
I have mine on heavy metal rack (my own design) placed on wooden floor for decades, no issues at all. All turntable are direct drive from Victor, Denon, Technics, Luxman. Look, I don’t have to destroy my walls, rack can be always placed on the floor. But I know they exist and I know there is many more options and reasons and price points than just your narrow view for others to march too. Name dropping middle of the road models and brands like its the gold standard,..... then call others choices as toys and wastes of money...criticizing what you don’t own or know about in ignorance... it gets old the first time...let alone the thousandth..... now since you like to brand and model drop....I think I’ll switch to the P3 Exclusive tonight and pine my regret for letting my PD 444 go 4 decades ago ..... sleep tight Sheldon...😏 If funny when you think other people choices can hurt me, I am happy for your more expensive Pioneer P3, this is a very good example of properly isolated turntable and don’t tell me you need anything else under this turntable for better isolation, except for a proper rack or, if you wish, a wall mount. If you sold your less expensive Luxman turntable 40 years ago, how old are you ? Enjoy what you have....sincerely...you can’t be enjoying or buying your own BS if you need to beat everything else down, ignorant of even how often you contradict yourself here... Old people are like children sometimes, very sensitive. I will continue to buy my own BS because the BS people are using here is the worst SB. If a user need a pyramid of materials like butcher blocks, additional springs, spikes, bearings and all that stuff together then turntable design is 100% BS, let’s face it. My philosophy is very simple: Buy a nice turntable, put it on a hi-fi rack or on a nice table and enjoy the music! @has2be |
You have no point. Just more blovient drek. You only make excuses when called out for your misinformed imperialistic opinions, period. I did not get anything you posted. Graphite is the color/finishing and the plinth recommended due its DESIGN (not material), in every links I posted about graphite plinth in another thread you can clearly read "slate plinth". Maybe you missed that? I wish others to find a properly designed turntable first to save on additional springs and isolation. A good turntable isolated by designer who made a turntable with integrated plinth using feet and various damping materials. Always the mine is better BS , it’s the one constant you bring. Reality is.....you don’t. You have opinions based on your narrow view of the world according to you while dismissing all others and their choices. I know , I know more than you ever will on many things audio and analog.....only because I learn from others experiences by listening to them ,and trying through experience.... while you disrespect and dismiss them for having differing views and tastes and ignorant of their needs and insulting their choices. Who you are if you post stuff like this? Industry professional have been using turntables for over 40 years without any esoteric solutions. Look at the best broadcast studios. Everybody can watch Chad Kassem and his mastering console at Asoustic Sounds for A/B comparison, do you see any isolation or springs under turntables, except for a massive wood table? Properly designed turntable must be placed direct on the table or rack. Here is an example of my custom made rack (not pained) for Luxman turntable, but I think everyone can make a custom rack for whatever turntable. By the way, my tables are all sitting on one wall rack that runs 8ft along an outside wall at 4ft above the floor for convenience. I don’t have the issues some have by design and set up and table choices. I have mine on heavy metal rack (my own design) placed on wooden floor for decades, no issues at all. All turntable are direct drive from Victor, Denon, Technics, Luxman. Look, I don’t have to destroy my walls, rack can be always placed on the floor. But I know they exist and I know there is many more options and reasons and price points than just your narrow view for others to march too. Name dropping middle of the road models and brands like its the gold standard,..... then call others choices as toys and wastes of money...criticizing what you don’t own or know about in ignorance... it gets old the first time...let alone the thousandth..... now since you like to brand and model drop....I think I’ll switch to the P3 Exclusive tonight and pine my regret for letting my PD 444 go 4 decades ago ..... sleep tight Sheldon...😏 If funny when you think other people choices can hurt me, I am happy for your more expensive Pioneer P3, this is a very good example of properly isolated turntable and don’t tell me you need anything else under this turntable for better isolation, except for a proper rack or, if you wish, a wall mount. If you sold your less expensive Luxman turntable 40 years ago, how old are you ? Enjoy what you have....sincerely...you can’t be enjoying or buying your own BS if you need to beat everything else down, ignorant of even how often you contradict yourself here... Old people are like children sometimes, very sensitive. I will continue to buy my own BS. If a user need a pyramid of materials like butcher blocks, additional springs, spikes, bearings and all that stuff together then turntable design is very bad, let’s face it. My philosophy is very simple: Buy a nice turntable, put it on a hi-fi rack or on a nice table and enjoy the music! And do not try to solve a non existing problem. @has2be |
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