"instead of listening for audio thrills you’ve turned back into a music lover."
Does this mean there are members here who listen for "audio thrills" instead of the actual music?
SHOCKING!
Turned back into a music lover
If you can delight in the many wonderful subtleties of a performance instead of listening for audio thrills you’ve turned back into a music lover. The behemoth that is your audio system tempts you mightily. But if you can somehow evade that temptation, you can fully enjoy music again.
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Good observation. I had spoke to a non-audiophile friend of mine and he asked me about listening to music on my audio system. I call it my High Fidelity rig. I told him that sometimes when one listens to a song one can hear sounds that would not normally be heard on the car radio, or on old Bose wave radio at home, but might just be heard on a High Fidelity rig. I told him if Norah Jones takes in a breath before she starts to sing, you will hear that. He said, "why would you want to hear that sound’? The sounds he misses in a recording, the dynamics, the low base rumble, the separation of instruments are all the things (and more)... are things he does not care about. Listening to music live is very enjoyable, the ambiance, the scales of the sounds, the audience... it’s all great. |
OP, I think you point to a dichotomy in interest / appreciation that is very much a part of this pursuit. We are analytical in building systems… but are emotional in appreciating music. Over the last fifty years, most of my systems tended to be a bit more on the analytical side. They highlighted the venue of the performance… and slam… you could easily hear a musician move his foot. During this time I was working and at most would have thirty minutes to an hour a day to listen to my system. If I had more time… I would not use it listening to my system. I would loose interest. Occasionally in my search for equipment I would hear incredibly musical equipment… this stuff would just reach inside of me and grab my heart. They either lacked details or cost a small fortune. Once I started attending the symphony regularly I started noticing differences between real acoustic music and my highly detailed system with heavy slam. My system was not really that musical (mine has never been way over on the details / analytical side… that was never me). This exposure showed where my system was deficient. I started making changes. I already had a great tube preamp and phonostage.. which is why my system already had soul… but not nearly enough. I traded out my planar speakers and one by one swapped my solid state gear for high quality tube gear. Each step added to the magic and emotional content of the sound without loosing details. Now, I am retired, I listen to music three and a half hours or more a day… I literally have to drag myself away from my system… it is so musical and compelling… it still has all the details… they are just not served up in my face and bass is ample and highly detailed only not artificially accentuated into slam.
So, good observation. But in addition to how you listen, the design of your system determines how it sounds… you can design for analytical excellence or musicality and emotional connection. As a group we tend to be very analytical… and that can actually lead us away from what we were actually attracted to in music in the first place. |
My intention was not to put down seeking good sound, or say music and sound are mutually exclusive. Rather, I’m pointing out that once you’ve ACHIEVED good sound, the next step is to enjoy the music and not obsess over how your system sounds. Concentrate rather on how your good sounding system ENHANCES the glories of the music your playing. |
Listening must be learned, acoustically and musically speaking... Listening acoustical experiments has nothing to do with upgrades obsession... Listening music can even be internalized and without sound.... Consumerism marketing programmation explain the rest and lack of creativity and thinking too...
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i usually listen to music to enjoy music, decompress, clear mind of all else, revisit a particular artist to experience his/her/their brilliance - in effect this is 'the harvest', the reward of all the effort made to build a very nice sounding system... interesting thing is with streaming, i'd probably rate my time listening to saved music/favorites about 2/3’s of the time, the other 1/3 is spent discovering new music, perhaps an older album of an artist, or their new work, or a recommended new artist or album entirely since there is a good amount of time listening to new music, i must admit that i get thrown back into ’listen to the hifi and not the music mode’ as i can be struck by how some may be well or poorly recorded.... listening to new music, one is more in evaluative mode, seeing if the music is enjoyable, and the sound of it is part of that so actually this aspect is somewhat cloudier than it was before, listening to cd’s or lp’s from the established collection... of course, i would get new lp’s or cd’s in those days ... but much less often than i am discovering new music these days |
The other day, a metaphor came into my mind. I enjoy this as much as a good TV film. Or more. Listening to analog LPs in my living room. 10cc Sheet music. I like films. For enterainment, the best leaves my stereo system behind. But I did reconsider - now listen, this is "filmatic", clear, emotions connected - why not stay with the music...so I did not go to the TV room. Re; "For the love of music" - I rediscover 10cc, Yes, Steppenwolf, Jefferson Airplane, and many others - thanks to a good music system.
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First of all, your post seems to create a false dichotomy; that either one is a music lover, and ignores their gear, or, one only pays attention to how good their gear is at reproducing music, and doesn’t care about the actual music. As if, one can only be one type of listener, or the other. But what about those of us, that for the vast majority of the time, only care about the music, and completely ignore the gear reproducing it. But at other times, maybe for a couple of hours a week, or every couple of weeks, all we do is pay attention to the gear, while making changes, and listening to only ’audiophile approved’ recordings, even if we don’t actually like the music, just so we can more easily hear the changes. So, am I constantly switching between being an ’audiophile’ to music lover, and back again? Or is it more likely that I can hold 2 differing ways to approach audio in my mind, without being in internal conflict? NO! I am always an audiophile AND a music lover. For me, the music comes first, and is by far what is important to me. But that doesn’t rule out the fun I can have, from time to time, by just paying attention to the gear. |
There is an acoustic minimal threshold of satisfaction... Passed over this threshold we listen music, and dont ask ourself each week about the next piece of gear to upgrade... Why? Because electrical, mechanical and acoustic controls installation at the end matter way more than electronical gear pieces price tag choices...( relatively to our wallet possibilities) Is my system the better? No Is my system so satisdying that i am no more interested in alectronic design audio marketing ? Yes
Am i an audiophile? I was, but now i am a music lover first and last and dont bother with my sound so much... Why then were you an audiophile to begin with ? Because i loved music so much i wanted a MINIMAL threshold acoustic S.Q. experience... How do you discover this threshold? After upgrading to the right S.Q. /price quality gear (vintage save for the dac whose chip is a vintage one anyway) i make listenings experiments about the three embeddings working dimensions and i learned to control them at low cost and my own way... I am not really an active audiophile now... I learned HOW to listen in the process... We must learn how to listen musically... We must learn how to listen acoustically... These two way of listening are always related but are always completely distinct... There is no shortcut in listenings experiments, nor musically, nor acoustically... My hobby is and was learning how to listen WITHOUT focussing on market upgrading...
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Simonmoon, I guess in your case, it is not a dichotomy or a problem. For me, and if I’m to believe many discussions on this forum, it is for others too. The obsession with sound can take over and rob you of your enjoyment of the music. BTW, Nice pipe
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OP, “The obsession with sound can take over and rob you of your enjoyment of music.” I absolutely agree. I think this is a natural dichotomy. Since evaluating equipment is most naturally an analytical task. This is a natural thing… and can led to losing track of the point. Certainly not everyone is like this. Some folks are mostly into the analysis and pursuit of high sound quality… nothing wrong with that. But for us normal humans… the balance presents a challenge. Your point very relevant. |
I'm much like Simonmoon in that I can listen in both modes. I'm a modder, so often changing out little things like caps, resistors, etc. After changes I'm initially in analytical mode, if change is positive, I'll segue into music lover mode, this without any conscious effort. I can always tell if a change not good in that I remain in analytical mode. Of course, this sometimes takes time in that both mind and components and/or parts undergo 'burn in'.
Over the years, as my system has improved and matured, I find myself nearly always in music lover mode. As for changes, I've improved my batting average over the years, almost never strike out these days.
I'd agree with another poster who mentioned recordings as a variable for listening mode. There have been times in the past when I doubted my system when listening to previously unheard recordings. If they were of mediocre or worse quality I would go into analytical mode which then led to doubts. As system has matured, thus, subject to much less change, I now doubt my system much less often which lends itself to full time music lover mode, even with those previously unheard recordings. At this point, I have much greater surety regarding recording quality at face value, this lends itself to much more easily entering and remaining in music lover mode with nearly all recordings. |
@mahgister, I can agree with your observations overall. Since I'm deep into my diy 'stuff', listening in an analytical fashion comes with the attempt. It has to, although just the enjoyment of "Hey, that worked!" still pulls one into the enjoyment and entertainment of what's being played for Proof.... ;) I 'do what I do' to move the latter along....even if only for my own grins, and to make one wonder why I'm happier with my 'pile' v. their system. I need only to impress myself, ultimately.....much like most. 😏 Right?
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I dont remember the times when you are wrong... I think you are rarely wrong and with plenty of humor... For sure you are right another time...
My best to you....
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That's what happened to me. And yet, I have big big plans: a new house chosen with a dedicated music room in , Carbon Quatros, Ref 250 SE , Ref5 SE.. But I'm now a record listener and collector. I've fallen in love with Stranded Records, Secret Records, Psychofon, and my very own home town Next Record Store Is there anything as exciting as record store day? Lastly, if you're a post-punk fan, check out the Black Lennons
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@vonharaland Cool, i bet it sounds wonderful…be sure to join other ardent music lovers at the forum where your speakers come from ;-).. Lots of RSD, etc discussions abound.. Jim |
I used to live in Tucson. When I took a couple years off from work to have fun I found PDQ Records. It was enormous. I rode my bicycle over every day or two. Wonderfull experience… and largely responsible for my great collection now. Folks from Stereophile, The Absolute Sound, and audiophiles would fly there to shop.
Unfortunately, it closed recently.
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