Tubes for Magnepan’s.

I'm a big fan of tube based systems and I have run MMGs and .7s with tube amps. I'm not such a big fan of high power tube amps though, due to the heat and expense of running quads, sixes, and octets of big power tubes (and I own a pair of six-pacs). Maggie 1.7s need power and a 50 watt tube amp is going to fall a little short with the 1.7s in most installations. You are much better off using a tube preamp and a solid state amp. 

@russ69

Thank you. I don’t listen to the Maggie’s, 99% of the time, at high volume. And I will also use it to drive the Zu’s on and off.

The instrument and studio supply company Sweetwater has a piece on guitar head amps and how a tube amp of modest wattage will outdrive solid state by a wide margin: Now I can’t find it! Argh! I will look.

Any suggestions on a tube preamp? I like Schiit audio and have considered the Freya, but if I go that route I may want better sound from a pre than what the Freya is reported to provide.

Again, I am lost here.

I've only had a few tube preamps, a Head, a Conrad Johnson PV, a couple of Audio Research, and a Cary SLP-98. I kept the Cary. In the budget preamp segment I would look at the Quicksilver but I have never heard that one myself.  

tubes and maggies are NOT a great combination

of course you can make it work, but the impedance and efficiency characteristics of the maggies make it hard to most tube amps (save very high powered ones) to do their best

maybe in a smallish room at fairly low volumes with pretty simple music...

ps - tube watts seem more powerful than ss amp watts but that is more due to distortion characteristics of tubes vs ss clipping, and also, widely varying power ratings manufacturers put out there for marketing spec sheets

key point is that well built ss amps can double power output into 4 ohms versus their basic 8 ohm load rating... tube amps cannot do this and can struggle to deliver even the same power in 4 ohms versus 8...

good luck

About 20 years or so ago I drove Magnepan 1.6s with a 100 watt Music Reference RM9. This was in a 26 x16 room and it drove them to any level I cared to listen at. I know this isn't a match on paper, but it worked splendidly in the real world. Now when I upgraded to 3 series Maggies, the RM9 couldn't hack it.

Oz

@russ69 

Well the used market can come into play, and I may be able to pick up a better quality tube unit that way. And I was thinking more for the tube amp price wise at around $4k. 
The Schiit just came to mind as something to fiddle with, but that is not the max I would be willing to spend to go that route.

@jjss49

No, I know about Maggie’s and watts, so this is something to add into the mix for more sophisticated listening sessions, Jazz and Classical.

Thank you for the reference to overdriving, that is what the Sweetwater tech was saying in their video.

+1 jjss49 - Maggie needs power.
If you're not going to listen moderately loud, maybe you can get by with a medium power tube? I would not recommend Schiit, decent on paper but...

OP:
What are you currently using to drive your modded maggies? What are you hoping to improve with tubes?  I have used both solid state and tubes with mine.

william53b "Because tubes drive speakers so much more efficiently than solid state"

That is completely wrong, false, and mistaken you do not understand efficiency at all in fact it is most likely and common that a tube amplifier will be less efficient that a solid state amplifier. 

I have Magneplanar 1.7's and power them with a Jolida 502 P with KT 150 tubes.  This is a 60ish watt per channel amp and I find no problem at  my normal listening levels (70- 75 db with peaks up to 90 db or so according to my radio shack db meter)  I also have a Conrad Johnson MF 2300 amp (240 watts into 8 ohms, tested at 400 watts into 4 ohms).  Of course, the CJ will play louder but I find the Jolida very satisfactory at the loudness I like and with the music I listen to mostly - Jazz, classical, earlier rock and such.  Room size is 14X24 and I sit about 10 ft from the speakers.  The speakers are run full range with a sub set at a very low level for bass augmentation only. 

@jc4659 

I have a Benchmark AHB 2. It sounds more dynamic than a Parasound A23; lots of punch.

So tubes are just a "satisfy my fancy" thing. 
Room is 12x24x8.

2 KEF R400 B's for the bottom.

I think I'm just admitting at this late stage in life that no 1 thing will ever satisfy, so the Maggie’s are for Jazz and Classical and the Zu Dirty Weekends will be for head banging rock. 
For a hi current amp I’m thinking of a Parasound or Hegel. And if Russ is right, I may not need a tube amp, just a tube pre. 
It's not just the sound, it's the playing around with all of it.

If the Zu's don’t work out, I may go in the direction of the Klipsh Heritage line for Rock.

@clearthink,

Yes, less efficient, just more musical when overdriven. 

Drove Maggies with Manley tube monos for many years. I’m sure there are some that do better than what I tried, but no ss amp that I tried sounded nearly as satisfying as the Manleys or the Berning tube amp that I also had. IMO, Maggie’s benefit for the full bodied sound that a good tube amp offers. The ss amps that I tried, with the exception of a BEL all sounded too lean, even sterile, for my tastes. I do agree that Maggies like power and while it may seem counterintuitive, ESPECIALLY if most of your listening is at low volumes. Not enough power reserve and at low volumes my Maggies tended to sound a bit sluggish and dynamically lifeless.  I agree that 40-50 W is not enough.  Personally, I would look for a good 100 tube watts.

I ran VTL, Cary and Mcintosh. Cary when they are worked over and have pretty good valves, sounds the best to me. The problem with Cary they are 86 and 89% efficient. That's it.. They just run out of gas when you turn them up.. BUT it's right there with older Mac valve amps SQ if they are worked over.  I wonder how those Maggie's would sound with MC275. You can find one for 39-4500 in good shape.. 75 watts is on the low side for the older MC275s. If they are worked 85-90 watts per rail.
Over 100db amp..

I run 93% E speakers, that Mac even a 240 will drive them over 95db, a 275 102-5 db pretty easy.. You can wind up with your fingers in your ears with efficient speakers. 

It's always the same though. Seldom do I use a valve amp below 280-300hz. 100hz is the absolute lowest I go.. That makes a big difference too.. NO Bass duty.. Game changer when it comes to bloat and distortion in the WHOLE bass region.. The results is everything is easier to tune in..

Less room treatment... Everything..

Happy Happy..

william, anyone who says that Maggies and tubes are not a great combination probably never heard an Audio Research demo with them.  But that's not to say just any tubes will do.

Even with your stated music I agree with those saying that something with 75 to 100 wpc will likely be more satisfying.

I'm not familiar with the Benchmark if the input is high enough for a tube match you might try to borrow a tube preamp from a dealer or friend if possible.  That should cost less if it satisfies you.

Anyway, have fun with it and good luck.

Maggie’s typically need a lot of current.  I have a tube preamp that I love and 750 measured wpc mono blocks running 3.6 Maggie’s.   IMHO you will need a mnmum of 150 wpc to drive smaller Maggie’s and more would be recommended,  Think about SS amps with a tube pre amp for an economical solution.

I think the answer to satisfy most is a tube pre, this can give you "tube sound" if your amp can convey that. This satisfies the tube desire and the ability to power them with the Hoover Dam. 😉

I'm running Maggie 3.7i's with a McIntosh C2300 tube preamp and a Bryston 4B3 amp. A used Mac preamp could be close to your budget. I feel that this is a nice setup.

About 35 years ago I drove Tympani IV w a 70w tube amp for the mid tweet and 350wpc SS for the woofer. The system could raise the hair of the back of your neck, it was so scary realistic. Queen, London Phil, Ben Webster all 'lived' in my room. see  ieLogical Audiophilia Redux

Today, I have 150wpc driving the woofers, 125wpc tube [see ieLogical VTA M-125 ] for the mids and 36wpc for the tweets on Eminent Tech LFT-8b.

Use the right kind of power in the right places.

@ieales

That's my kind of finagling. I find manufactures attempts to build homages to existing technological presentations often tiring when cross pollination can yield much better results.

Being able to afford 3 amps for a stereo that you can match to the drivers can actually save you a lot of money in the end.

That's my kind of finagling.

I forgot to say Class D for the woofers and tube for the tweets.

I also have 2 subs and roll the bottom octave out of the woofers which is an effective 200+ watts for the woofers which being nominally ≈6.5Ω is a further 20%-ish increase.

Being able to afford 3 amps for a stereo

The amps cost less than some power cords. Really, really good can be had for reasonable expenditure. A 1 : 1  driver to amp ratio trumps passive crossover induced phase, impedance and driver interaction mayhem Six Ways to Sunday!

In your price range you need to go with a solid state amp with maggies a fifty watt tube amp will not do well at all.

OP
I have driven my 1.7i's with a mc250 and a Mc275. The 275 was very sweet for most jazz and lite rock at moderate volume but tried a parasound A21+ and which handles all kinds of music with ease and is much more dynamic. 
Hope this helps.

"...but tried a parasound A21+ and which handles all kinds of music with ease and is much more dynamic..."

Plus one

Maggie 1.7's are not great a low volumes...they don't sound like Maggies at low volumes.
A tube preamp and a high current ss amp is a good way to go. 
OP, in your original post,  you said you upgraded the crossovers and planer tweeters. 1.7i's are entirely QR (quasi-ribbon). Did you replace the QR tweeter section with a planer one??

The original tweeter is now part of the midrange, today. 😉


New tweeters are a line array parallel with the panel. Wood has been subtracted and added. I also included bi-ampable binding posts. 


I've been trying to document this rebuild and will sew together a little video that I’ll put together when done.

The Parasound Halo line seems to be a consensus choice. 

A23+ is fine for the 1.7i's but an A21 if you’re planning on getting the 3.7i's.

Right?

I have 120 watt mono tube amps with a tube preamp that power my 2.5’s and it is plenty loud and clear. I’ve had bryston McIntosh Hafler SS amps and the tube sounds best to me.

"...A23+ is fine for the 1.7i's but an A21 if you’re planning on getting the 3.7i's. Right?..."

No, just get the A21. 

I just picked up a Rogue Cronus Magnum to try with my Maggies. it does fine. Good enough that I will likely sell my 225 watt/channel SS amp.
Curious about thy you would add a planar tweeter? Maybe I didn't understand what you are saying,

@russ69

Thanks.

This is my #1 amp.

Benchmark AHB 2. It comfortably can handle 90- 95db on it’s own with my 1.7i’s, depending on the material. It totally rocks with the KEF’s, and does very well with the bass panels, it’s the tweeters that kill it. 
It’s easy to see how two might sound since it is easy to bridge into one side. 500+ watts into 4ohms bridged.Specs below.

I bought a A23 yesterday online, store demo local, but when I called and asked when I could pick it up they told me they didn’t have one. "!?"

Wtf? 
Thanks House of Stereo! 

I’ve done better ordering online than with my brick and mortar...

I thought I’d give them another try since it looks like the previous owner is out of the picture, but they screwed me again. So far the only thing I’ve bought there that wasn’t a train wreck were my KEF’s.
Arcam? Lemon. They passed on sending back for service, even after Arcam was bought by that Canadian company and promised to resolve past QC issues for customers.


Velodyne sub cause they never did their homework and didn’t know REL existed? Then started carrying them within a year and didn’t want to do a trade?


Magnepan 1.7i? Inductor wired inline to all three elements so there was no treble? See above for customer service after the sale...


I was going to try and run my De’WooferMagnepan panels with the A23 to judge it’s output compared to my AHB 2, but obviously would have tried it in my system. If the Parasound was noticeably more engaging, sort of equal to the AHB2 power wise, then I’d think about an A21.


If anyone knows a way to get a hold of one for demoing, let me know.


AHB2 specs:

CONTINUOUS AVERAGE OUTPUT POWER

< 0.0003 % THD+N at full rated power, 20 Hz to 20 kHz

• 100 Watts per channel into 8 Ohms, both channels driven
• 130 Watts per channel into 6 Ohms, both channels driven
• 190 Watts per channel into 4 Ohms, both channels driven
• 240 Watts per channel into 3 Ohms, both channels driven
• 200 Watts into 16 Ohms, bridged mono
• 380 Watts into 8 Ohms, bridged mono
• 480 Watts into 6 Ohms, bridged mono

All speakers have variations in input impedance. Select loads based on nominal impedances not minimum impedances. The AHB2 is stable into all loads. The AHB2 is conservatively rated at an output level where THD+N is < 0.0003 % instead of the more typical 1% THD+N. Power at 1% THD will be higher.

OUTPUT VOLTAGE INTO VARIOUS LOAD IMPEDANCES

< 0.0003 % THD+N at the following output voltages and load impedances, 20 Hz to 20 kHz

• 29.03 dBV, 31.25 dBu, 28.28 Vrms into 8 Ohms, both channels driven
• 28.92 dBV, 31.14 dBu, 27.93 Vrms into 6 Ohms, both channels driven
• 28.81 dBV, 31.03 dBu, 27.57 Vrms into 4 Ohms, both channels driven
• 28.57 dBV, 30.79 dBu, 26.83 Vrms into 3 Ohms, both channels driven
• 27.14 dBV, 29.36 dBu, 22.76 Vrms into 2 Ohms, both channels driven
• 35.05 dBV, 37.27 dBu, 56.57 Vrms into 16 Ohms, bridged mono
• 34.83 dBV, 37.05 dBu, 55.14 Vrms into 8 Ohms, bridged mono
• 34.59 dBV, 36.81 dBu, 53.67 Vrms into 6 Ohms, bridged mono
• 33.16 dBV, 35.38 dBu, 45.52 Vrms into 4 Ohms, bridged mono

Use dBV to calculate the peak SPL from your speaker/amplifier combination. Use the following formula: Amplifier output voltage in dBV + speaker sensitivity at 2.83V - 9 dB. Example: (29.03 dBV at 8 Ohms) + (90 dB SPL @ 2.83V 1m) - 9 dB = 110 dB SPL at 1 meter

SNR & DYNAMIC RANGE

Rated output relative to output noise, inputs shorted

• 132 dB A-weighted, Stereo Mode
• 135 dB A-weighted, Mono Mode
• 130 dB Unweighted, 20 Hz to 20 kHz, Stereo Mode
• 133 dB Unweighted, 20 Hz to 20 kHz, Mono Mode

NOISE VOLTAGE

Output noise voltage, A-weighted, inputs shorted

• -103 dBV, -101 dBu, 7.1 uVrms, Stereo Mode
• -100 dBV, -98 dBu, 9.8 uVrms, Mono Mode

Use dBV to calculate the SPL of the noise produced by your speaker/amplifier combination. Use the following formula: Amplifier output noise voltage in dBV + speaker sensitivity at 2.83V - 9 dB. Example: Mono mode driving very high efficiency speakers: (-100 dBV) + (104 dB SPL @ 2.83V 1m) - 9 dB = -5 dB SPL at 1 meter. This means that the system noise will be 5 dB below the threshold of hearing when driving speakers with a very high 104 dB efficiency.

NOISE RELATIVE TO 2.83 VRMS

Output noise relative to 2.83 Vrms, A-weighted, inputs shorted

• -112 dB, Stereo Mode
• -109 dB, Mono Mode

THD+N

1 kHz, 80 kHz LPF, at full rated output into any rated load

• < -118 dB (< 0.00013%), Stereo Mode
• < -118 dB (< 0.00013%), Mono Mode

THD

1 kHz, 20 kHz LPF, at full rated output into any rated load

• < -119 dB (< 0.00011%), Stereo Mode
• < -120 dB (< 0.00010%), Mono Mode

CROSSTALK

• Better than -115 dB at 1 kHz
• Better than -92 dB at 20 kHz

FREQUENCY RESPONSE

• Better than 0.1 Hz to 200 kHz, +0/-3 dB
• -0.01 dB at 20 Hz, -0.17 dB at 20 kHz, 8-Ohm Load
• -0.23 dB at 20 Hz, -0.32 dB at 20 kHz, 4-Ohm Load

DAMPING FACTOR

• 350 at 20 Hz, 8-Ohms
• 254 at 1 kHz, 8-Ohms
• 34 at 20 kHz, 8-Ohms
• 7 at 200 kHz, 8-Ohms

MAXIMUM AUDIO OUTPUT CURRENT

• 29 A peak, per channel, both channels driven

INPUT SENSITIVITY

• Low-Gain = 22 dBu (9.8 Vrms), Gain = 9.2 dB
• Mid-Gain = 14.2 dBu (4 Vrms), Gain = 17.0 dB
• High-Gain = 8.2 dBu (2 Vrms), Gain = 23 dB
• Use Mid-Gain or High-Gain settings for unbalanced inputs
• Unbalanced inputs require RCA to XLRM adapter cables

INPUT IMPEDANCE

• 50 k Ohms, normal mode
• 1 M Ohm, common mode

INPUT CMRR

• 80 dB at 20 Hz, typical
• 80 dB at 1 kHz, typical
• 65 dB at 20 kHz, typical

TRIGGER I/O

• 12 VDC 200 mA current-limited output to trigger turn-on of remote devices
• DC input for slaving to remote devices
• Input responds to 3.3 V logic and higher, VIL = 1.26 V, VIH = 2.7 V
• Absolute maximum input voltage = 30 VDC
• Absolute minimum input voltage = -0.3 VDC
• Input Impedance = 20 k Ohms

PROTECTION CIRCUITS

• Fully Electronic, No Relays
• Mute Sequencing
• Distortion Detection
• Short Circuit Detection
• Over Current Detection
• Over Temperature Detection
• SOA Detection (Output device safe operating area)

DIMENSIONS

NON-RACK-MOUNT VERSION:

• 11.04" W x 3.88" H x 9.34 " D - Including feet and binding posts
• 11.04" W x 3.47" H x 8.33 " D - Excluding feet and connectors
• Faceplate height is 2RU

RACK-MOUNT VERSION:

• 19.00" W x 3.88" H x 10.62 " D - Including binding posts, handles and removable feet
• 19.00" W x 3.47" H x 8.33 " D - Excluding feet and connectors
• 9.09" rack depth, including binding posts, excluding cables
• 11" rack depth, including cables
• Faceplate height is 2RU

WEIGHT

• 12.5 lbs., 16 lbs. shipping - Non-rack-mount version
• 13.5 lbs., 17 lbs. shipping - Rack-mount version

AC INPUT

• Auto-ranging AC Input
• 100 to 120 VAC +/- 10%, 8 Amps, 50 - 60 Hz
• 220 to 240 VAC +/- 10%, 8 Amps, 50 - 60 Hz
• Idle Power Consumption = 20 W
• Standby Power Consumption < 0.5 W

@secretguy 

Why the tweeter array? 

The tweeter on the 1.7i is serviceable at best. Since they don’t make the 2. series anymore with the ribbon tweeter, and I have good subs, so don’t need the additional bass of the 3.7i panel, why spend $4k more?

When it comes right down to it, the 1.7i might be the best midrange driver on the planet. 😉

These tweeters take it to a whole nother level, and don’t break the bank like Rhaal ribbons or Mundorf AMT's would.

https://www.parts-express.com/GRS-PT5010-8-10-Planar-Mid-Tweeter-8-Ohm-272-130

I have never heard one and can’t recall anyone on here bring them up. Vincent hybrid amps have always been something I would like to look at. They have combined ss and tubes into a single amp. Could be what you need. Only sorry I can’t give a hands on recommendation. I do have a Freya and it has left me not searching for anything else. I rolled the factory gain tubes out for chrome top bad boys and it is fantastic. Would love tetefunkins but do not want to pay 800 per tube.

@sgreg1


Yes, I have been intrigued by Vincent, but don't like the fact that they are built in Shina. The PS Audio BHK concept at a better price point.


This is in the "fiddling" price range though if I ever get a wild hair, or when this series comes up used somewhere. Of course they make better ones, and there is always the tube premium for the Automatic Tube Upgrade necessity.

I bought a Schiit Lyr with the phono pre onboard for my studio and when I upgraded to the old RCA Red, about ‘58? it added definition to the mid's.


https://upscaleaudio.com/products/vincent-audio-sa-32-tube-hybrid-preamplifier

@jjss49  I am not sure where you are getting your information.

When I was a dealer in the 1970's-80's, Jim Winey and Bill Johnson had a marketing agreement and displayed, sold, and marketed their products in tandem.  You may wish to ask Diller (at Magnepan now, being run by Jim's son last I heard).  He was the marketing person at Audio Research in those days and was the one on the road demoing and pushing the two.

I sold lots of combo systems of these two brands, and have yet to hear a better combination.  Period.  (We also made some oak stands and 22" Hartley woofer cabs for the Mark Levinson HQD system, which was pretty sophisticated for the times. The HQD system was, to be kind, not good.)

FYI, Audio Research made the EC-21 tube crossover specifically set for Magneplaner Tympani I-C speakers, which is a setup I use to this day, albeit with some updated Audio Research gear.

Possibly you should check to see some earlier information regarding Magneplaners and tubes. 

I suggest that ANYONE looking for a "high-end" system have their dealer bring these companies' products to their rooms and give them a listen.  They may not like the results IN THEIR ROOM, but at least they will have heard a system that is as accurate as it gets before making a final purchase decision.

Cheers!

@richopp

@jjss49 I am not sure where you are getting your information.

When I was a dealer in the 1970’s-80’s, Jim Winey and Bill Johnson had a marketing agreement and displayed, sold, and marketed their products in tandem.

i get my information from my own experiences, and when i share my opinions here that is the source

i have owned maggies and many arc tube amps over the years (currently own 6 of them, ranging from v70 vt60 vt100 and ref 75 and 110)

just because you sold maggies w arc as systems 40-50 years ago doesn’t mean they are a perfect combination

@jjss49 

Opinions vary.

Cheers!

My world famous factory X-overs from Magnepan. Notice how the inductor is inline to ground, and so most of the mid and none of the treble came through in the beginning.


I posted the image on my FB page so you can see it for yourself. 

Wonder if this forum will ever support pics?

https://www.facebook.com/william.pietrzak.56

not to be argumentative here, let’s put this issue in perspective

maggies are a flat panel speaker, low impedance, resistive load (not highly reactive) - different models run big and small, they differ in how they need to be driven... in the bass frequencies they need significant current drive to move the panels, move air, develop even a modest sense of drive and ’slam’

no doubt up the frequency range, they are exceptionally pure, and not hard to drive - thus if not asked to play loud and develop a convincing bottom end, tubes can sound utterly wonderful

the critical issue here what is needed to get the bass drive and slam out of maggies (make the speaker move alot of air in a hurry) this is the key weakness of the maggies and needs to be dealt with ... so, typically very good systems with large maggies owned by tube amp lovers use serious upper end tube amps (pricey and run very hot, burns through tubes - think vt200’s or big vtls, that league of tube amp)

the issue here in this post is the OP posted he is ’getting into tube amps’ and has a budget of $3-4 grand... so given that, i say, stick with good solid state at that price level -- for example a $3000 hegel h190 or h360 will properly drive a set of m 1.7’s top to bottom much better than a $3000 tube amp imo -- at proper listening levels and with proper bass response

maybe a higher powered primaluna tube amp with 8 power tubes can be had used for $3000 (eg dialogue premium hp, for instance), but of course, that amp has tube-i-ness in spades but not the best resolution/transparency.... perhaps an older vt100-2 at 3 grand would be better top to bottom, but even with its 4 ohm taps, the bass response will not as solid, deep, controlled and taut as if driven by a hegel

my 2 cents

Eminently reasonable opinions like these ^ will just never catch on.

@jjss49 

We have already settled on a tube pre into a SS amp, I think. 

But thanks so much for you detailed response. I want to buy a used A23 just to gauge the difference between the Parasound Halo line and my Benchmark AHB2. I can always use that in my studio, since my Adcom 555 is dying.

I was thinking a Parasound A21 or a Hegel 20 or 390 used for a high current amp.

Let there be Peace in this valley.... 😉

Phew...some of the things you guys believe....

Have you tried a Sunfire Signature amp on them? Among the best sound I ever squeezed from MG 20.1’s and reasonably priced. 

So why did we need to see 2 pages of specs on a Benchmark AHB2? That amp must have a TON of feedback!

@fiesta25

It is necessary because:

1. Some people feel the need to reiterate the fact that Maggie’s need a "LOT OF POWER". Which we already know. Many of us are happy with 100w's a channel into 8 ohms with our speakers though and we are not crazy, lazy or stupid. 

2. Not many people are familiar with this amp, but some automatically dismiss it as inadequate. And the most important spec is that if one is not powerful enough for a given person, two in bridged mode will make your ears bleed.

3. I would rather defend people who know what they want "en masse", and I want to hear what others have to say regarding their positive experiences with tubes and Maggie’s, and some people are closed minded and don’t understand that, so feel that we are somehow not listening to the Mantra of Maggie’s.

4. I'd rather hear the positive of someone else’s experience with a Maggie and a Zen Triode than someone that has 2000watts per side AB because that is already established doctrine, and we heard them the first time.

✌️

Not with Maggie's, but with Apogee Duetta IIs, I had rebuilt a couple of 80wpc mono Conn Organ amps.  Conventional wisdom was the same at the time, 200w min, high current.  The tube amps sounded great, and pretty much kept up with a Bryston 3B at the levels I would listen.They sounded terrific.  Both had my wife complaining about the levels ;).

I still have them in storage and plan to give them a shot with the Maggie's next fall/winter.

I have found that at times, conventional wisdom impedes progress.

Steve Guttenberg thinks the Rhumba 3.1 is the choice in my price range.


https://backertlabs.com/rhumba-1-3-preamp/