Biggest snafu ( mistake ) , is upgrading to gear that isn't really better , just different . If your going to take a step make it a good one .
The concept of "better" and "good" is entirely human. It does not exist in an objective sense because everything, and I mean everything, used to qualify "better" and "good" is something that exists as some abstract concept in our minds alone. Better and good does not exist beyond our own minds. "Better" is entirely relative to the perspective of an individual. It is subjective...entirely so, even though it may be a shared perspective. You can't tell anyone else what will be better for them. Period. End of story. And it's all just a story. So I'm not sure what you mean by "isn't really better". It's the "really" part that you lost me on - same with Mr.Tennis - I don't agree that some components are better than others, as such. They certainly are different. "Better" is relative to perspective. What is better to you, what perhaps makes a world of difference to you, may not occur to me to make any difference at all, nor might I call it "better" from my own perspective. This is where everything comes down to you, and your own personal preferences, and why the perspective of others should be taken as a point of departure to discover your own preferences. You are the only one who really knows for sure what is "better" to you. I'm not suggesting there may not be large groups of individuals who may agree on some things, but it is most certainly not objective. Ask the 99% of the population of the planet whether your mega $ audiophile system sounds "better" than a $500 system compiled from Best Buy, and you'll find out how entirely relative "better" is. Have them all (yeah, the entire population of the planet) taste a few different glasses of red wine and choose the best one (better have some fish and bread on hand too for all those people and make'em choose the better of those too), or choose a politician to lead their country, or a faith to live their lives by, and then come talk about "better". There are different components and they interact differently and present different results in reproducing music within a space. Lets make no mistake about it; the "better" part is entirely individual, and is a judgement and not an objective fact. Broadcasting from my own private Idaho.
I'll take a stab at this and hope that it helps someone because this is what I learned as I spent the last few years building my system.
1. Avoid starting out and not having a philosophy or a goal of what you want to achieve.
2. Avoid starting out and not having a game plan that lays out your entire planned, or eventual system with costs, components, etc.
3. Avoid being influenced by people that have agendas.
4. Avoid not trusting yourself and your ears.
5. Avoid listening to (if it is reasonable and you believe that you are on the right path) the family members, friends, etc. that tell you that you are spending too much time and money building a good rig. (And maybe they start implying that they may have to do an INTERVENTION on you).
6. Avoid listening to (if it is reasonable and you believe that you are on the right path) the fellow enthusiasts, etc. that listen to what you have assembled up to that point and start criticizing your system and start telling you what you need to change or buy.
Buy the same token avoid NOT LISTENING to fellow enthusiasts whose opinion you respect and whom you believe have your best interests at heart just because you may not be ready to hear what they have to say.
7. Avoid being impatient.
8. Avoid not deciding if you want your system to be home theater centric or audio centric (assuming that you have to make that decision).
9. Avoid (and I know that this one is really hard for many of us) purchasing equipment without doing a home demo where you can live with the component for awhile.
10. Avoid buying a component that your are really not sure if you need it or what you will do with it but "heck, it was a really good price."
"Spending WAYYYYY too much time defending opinions on Audiogon!"
In the end opinions are largely all that we have to go on, but still worthwhile I think to try to confirm that opinions are based in some degree of fact or reality.
The tail does not wag the dog. When people do speakers first, that is exactly what they are assuming.
The dog, in this case, is where the signal begins; be it cartridge or CD. This is followed by pre and amp, and those are items that should be as high a quality as you can muster. High quality speakers are more expensive than most of us can afford in the beginning; however, if you have good electronics and source, you will hear more music than with the best speakers and middle of the road electronics. Use what's left to buy as good of speakers as you can get, and plan on high quality speakers later on down the road. Remember, you can always use speakers elsewhere in the house, or sell your initial speakers.
there have been many suggestions as to what not to do when buying components. i have been thinking about the essence of the theme--namely avoiding mistakes.
i've come to the conclusion that one cannot avoid making mistakes. to err is to be human.
so, i say, do your own research, learn from your mistakes and don't worry about violating the conventional wisdom.
building a stereo system is not like crossing the street directly in front of an on-coming vehicle.
there is no right and wrong, only what sounds good to you.
components are not absolutely better, but rather present a trade off of improvements and degradations.
Exactly why hi-end audio is so difficult and frustrating. You can spend $20k for and amp and still be suffering from trade-offs. It never ends..................
'Exactly why hi-end audio is so difficult and frustrating. You can spend $20k for and amp and still be suffering from trade-offs.'
Since you realize this, why not spend 3-5 thousand on a complete system and enjoy the music. Audio is great, and it ain't rocket science. The problem with high-end audio, is the high-end part.
11-30-11: Rok2id "The problem with high-end audio, is the high-end part."
Or maybe more accurate to say "The problem with hi end audio is too much hi end and not enough audio." In some cases, of course. Not all. Hi end when done right can be really special.
Well I have lots of opinions but I rarely pay any attention to them..rather I prefer to wander in the opposite direction, not really wander but to wander is to be human and to be human is be confused and to be confused all you have to do is listen to your wife if you are married and if you get married you are confused. Hope this will clarify my previous post on this thread.
One issue that hasn't been mentioned is components that have been "upgraded" - especially lower cost (i.e. under $500.00) items. If the original item is lacking, why aren't you looking at a higher end component, rather than something you will likely have a hard time selling later on? Not to mention, who on earth is doing the "modification"; and do they honestly know what they're doing? Having worked in the broadcast and TV industry for over 22 years, I know of more than a few incompetent electronic technicians I wouldn't allow anywhere near my home.
Very very good posts. I enjoyed reading them all. As typical with most things, there are different levels involved and most people start at a lower to medium level based on knowledge, experience or money available.
So, to me it depends on whom is asking about stereo equipment and what they should get. Where are they in their life regarding music? So, using my experience, both good and bad, I use the experience in talking with others. Elizabeth's post was insightful and funny, but true. many other's were well written and true also. But in agreement with Elizabeth and others, here are some of mine.
1. Not knowing your price point. (which is hard to know unless and until you know what is out there) 2. Not being aware of how you would listen to music. Do you listen to music as background music, serious sit down for hours listening or a combination of both? 3. Buying a system before knowing if your Home theater will be combined with listening room? This is really important. 4. Buying before listening to it in your system and in your home. This really must be avoided. 5. Letting someone or some dealer talk you into buying something, you really didn't need and not performing item 4 above. 6. Unless it was sold at a price you simply couldn't walk away from, not walking away first and thinking. This is also really important. I never let anyone rush me into buying by threatening that it won't be there when I return or that the price will be different. I have to walk away for a time to think first. Always. If I'm rushed, I simply will not buy.
Thinking that if something is good, then more of it is better. For example... brass weights, thickness of cables, size of the speakers, watts/channel, maple, isolation devices... in fact the only thing that doesn't fit this is money :-)
Minorl, Your points 5 and 6 are really important. People often get lost in complexity of the audio and end up at the mercy of dealers who have different objectives. I second your recommendation to take time and not rush with decisions.
Putting room demisions and acoustic treatments as first priority. Then getting you ac wired compentently and appropriately to your systems needs. Thse are the building blocks of a bad, good, or great system. Just do it, you will not regret it. After that if you get a bad system to startoff it'll sound better than it ever would have if those changes weren't made.
I've been pretty lucky in that I've had good rooms to deal with.
Top things to avoid are-
1-setting unrealistic goals 2-Not learning to be satisfied 3-Spend $50,000 to listen to $1,000 of music 4-Trust others ears over your own 5-Thinking 20 watts is enough for your power hungry speakers 6-Thinking tube watts are more powerful than SS watts 7-Being an early adoptor of new technology 8-Buying anything with the word "magic" in either the product name or company name 9- Buying any gear that relies on mystery technology or a mystery explanation 10- Audition equipment with unfamiliar music
Isn't it a big mistake to proceed from the premise that you are the absolute and the components are the variables? After all, our hearing and our moods and our attention all vary with time of day, time of month or time available. I've found that listening for problems in my system guarantees that I will find some. On the other hand, by just taking for granted that your system sounds great and ignoring those who disagree, you can save a lot of money, frustration and anguish. It doesn't really matter whether your system results conform to an abstract standard or a consensus value assessment. If you decide to like what you have the game is over and you won. There is no absolute in sound. The entire industry is supported by your dissatisfaction. Whether or not you choose to be baited into that scheme is up to you, but no one but you should be making that decision. If you want to be happy, go ahead and be happy. Don't let reviewers take that choice out of your hands.
Macrojack makes a very good point. In the current issue of Stereophile one of the writers states that "it's good enough" is the most dangerous thought in audiophile land.
The only way I know of to build a system to one's satisfaction is in-home trial. Not always easy for a given component and even when available, does not always allow enough time to live with the component, 'dial it in' (by making other system changes including set-up in room). I think I have pretty 'quick' ears in discerning sonic differences resulting from a change in component or wire, but even if you can isolate the particular product's sound in another system by eliminating the variables, it isn't going to tell you how it will sound in your system, in your room, with your components. I don't know that there is any 'easy way' to do this. It is one thing if you are building a modest system, and your expectations are 'good sound' (whatever that means to you) and once bought, you are pretty much going to leave it at that, and quit fiddling. But, I've been around this game for decades, and like others, have fallen into the trap of listening to the gear, not the music, because something is 'lacking' and I want to achieve some incremental improvement. If my real love is endless tweaking and upgrading, fine. But, to be able to sit back, without audio nervosa, and enjoy what you have (and assuming you aspire to something that can give you the verisimultude of real music at some level), you are going to have to do some work to get there. That may mean trying and rejecting components after living with them. Buying used, because the tariff on brand new is too high. And recognizing, as others have already said, that no one system can do everything well. So with that lengthy preface, I guess my list of things to avoid in system building is: 1. Believing that any one system can do everything well, on all source material. (Ultimately, if the system is at a pretty high level, you are a victim of the source material, how well it is recorded and mastered, not the playback gear). 2. Believing that any one component is going to make a night and day difference in an otherwise well thought-out system. We are building a complex system from individual components, usually from different manufacturers, wired together with cables from yet other manufacturers. That is, it is a 'system' and has to be treated as such. 3. Believing that costly components allow you to ignore best practices in room set up, a-c power and the like. 4. Being unwilling to experiment with set up changes and small tweaks that may not be terribly costly. This requires more time and effort than money. 5. Not being able to enjoy what you've built- which is a means to listen to music, not an endless quest for absolute perfection, which is virtually impossible.
" In the current issue of Stereophile one of the writers states that "it's good enough" is the most dangerous thought in audiophile land."
There is a big difference between the audio sales guy who asks questions and actually takes time to understand what you have and what you are looking for and the guy who works based on the assumption that whatever he sells you will be better.
I agree with the sentiments and philosophy of Marcojack, Whart and Swampwalker. Over emphasis on the quest for perfected sound can detract from the importance of the music and reverse priorities. I do believe that more enjoyment and long term satisfaction comes with focus on the music you love. I'd rather listen to music and become involved with it instead of analyzing, dissecting and critiquing the sound. It seems components should serve the music and not the other way around. Charles,
1) Forgetting to treating your room acoustically so you know how your rig sounds. 2) Spending too much on cables so you can't buy a decent amp, preamp or source.
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