To Harbeth or not to Harbeth, That is the question...

I would take arms against a sea of low sensitivity speakers, and by opposing, end them.

I moved my discrete high-end “ A” system out of my audio and HT man-cave into a smaller and more intimate listening arena in my FR. ( 17.5’ x 12.5’)
New HARBETHs simply excelled , especially in the critical midrange.

Your bespoke listening arena size, your associated equipment, and the listening arena bespoke acoustic warts will dictate which model will present itself as best-of-breed.

For me, it was the new HARBETH 30.2 XD’s, paired up to a REGA OSIRIS integrated / REGA ISIS VALVE cdp/Dac. My high-end floorstanders had to go - the 30.2’s simply bested them in my new digs … full stop.
Low-level listening levels is superb.

Neither I nor my dealer buy into drinking Alan Shaw’s KoolAid that preaches his universal agnosticism that amps and cables don’t matter with HARBETHs.
I had an all NORDOST FREY cables loom that still sounded great. After auditioning a new-to-me CARDAS CLEAR array, it was another drain on my wallet for that upgrade ..,.The HARBETHs opened up to a higher level, the difference was not subtle. . Of course it is all system dependent - for me the cables mattered.
FWIW

PS

(1) Go with the new model XD’s… the design and build improvements are well worth the $$. . I had the older model 30.1s in a direct bakeoff and it was an easy choice,
(2) the HARBETH recommendation that open-form speaker stands matter is spot-on. They permit the thin-walled HARBETHs to resonate like a violin. I had a local pro high-end woodworker clone the recommended TonTrager speaker stands for ~ 25% of their dealer cost. The audio performance improvement was clear and unambiguous… my prior steel heavyweight TARGETS are now gonzo too.

lots of choices out there

harbeths are good, so are many other british monitors

i personally think proacs are better at very modest levels due to the greater presence they impart, as are classic acoustic energy ae-1's

I have the C7s and I agree that they respond well to cables that tend towards a leaner presentation. The gorgeous mids need no extra boost of warmth. Mr. Shaw's recommended stand height and set up is spot on.Tube amps 40-60 watts work fine with mine if not trying to push it to concert levels.

When I was going through an upgrade program I had some Harbeth 7 speakers for a while along with a few others. The winners in my system were a pair of Proac speakers. I have now upgraded further up the Proac line.

For me the answer was not to Harbeth. Your answer may be different. They have a lot of fans, but I am not one. Not bad just not what I want

I have the Harbeth 30.2 with the Luxman class A 590axll, I had a hard decision between choosing the 5’s or the  30.2, all I can say is I don’t normally listen loud, right now it’s around 60-65 Db. Although when needed I can get it up to 90+ with no problem. And I love vocal and acoustic music, but dip into All genre’s. The 30.2 were a great choice for me. Hope this helps. 

Harbeth 30.1's for the past 4 years.  Presently paired with Pass INT-25.  95% of the time I stream qobuz through an innuos zen mk 3/mhdt orchid DAC.   Lots of jazz with focus on guitar and vocals.  Lots of classical with focus on piano / small ensembles.  Well recorded rock and roll (think Deja vu).  I very much like to hear a sense of acoustic space around the performers.  Context - I'm somewhat volume constrained as I live in a coop apartment and have neighbors that I'm getting to know (moved here 6 mos ago). 

I think they're great speakers.  I mean there are times when I get goosebumps when listening to well recorded music.  Good at low levels.  Sort of remind me of Quad ESL63's that I used to own.  That kind of transparent presentation.  Just really nice speakers.  Maybe I'd look at the XD's but...I don't feel compelled to do anything except listen.  

I have the SHL5+ 40s in a 13' x 16' room.  No experience with the 30s.
For low to mid volume listening, they clearly are better than my LS50s, LRSs and B&W Matrix 801S2s.

My 1970s Rogers LS3/5As however, are right up there with the SHL5+ 40s for low volume listening.

hleeid, 

Please share what amp you are using with the Shl5+. Thanks.

Low listening ,vocals, acoustic music. The P3ESR is the Harbeth you should be looking at! 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqFIaiPT_kY

I've owned the SHL5, Monitor 30 and P3s. IMO, the SHL5s had a bigger, smoother sound and are more tolerant to equipment and cables than the others.  That said, I would definitely use a good cable, stands and amplifier with some guts.  I happen to love my P3s right now.  Very well balanced with satisfying bass and good at lower levels.  Using with a Heed Elexir 50 wpc integrated.  

I've owned the P3esrs in the past, and currently own M30.1 (home office) and SHL5+ (media room). As much as I love Harbeth, I don't think they are particularly satisfying when it comes to low level listening. They're not bad per se, but if that's your goal I think Klipsch Heritage series might be a better option. Personally, I don't care for the Klipsch sound (or most high efficiency speakers for that matter), but they really do shine at low listening levels better than other speakers I've heard.

@voodoochillin - I rotate between a Hegel H190, Forte 1A and a pair of Ampzilla 2000 2nd Edition monoblocks (Bryston BP26 preamp).

My SHL5+40s sounded great with the above SS amps. Best with the Ampzillas at higher volumes and with complex music (concertos, symphonies, big band jazz).

A few months ago my uncle gave me a Jolida SJ502 tube integrated. This is my first tube amp and I have only used it at my new place.

They really shine with the Jolida. Different in many good ways. Perhaps lacking a little bass compared with my SS gear. Can only imagine how they would sound with a higher end tube amp.

But this is where the subwoofers do their thing. And very nicely.

I also have used them in 4 different rooms. A 10’ x 12’ office and then an open space 14’ x 16’ living room at my old place.

My home office at the new place is 13’ x 16’.
There is also a 15’ x 19’ living room.

I have run them full range with and without subwoofers (4) in all mentioned rooms at both places.

I can definitely vouch for the high quality low level listening.

Hope this is helpful.

Agree 100% with @chayro 
 '' I've owned the SHL5, Monitor 30 and P3s. IMO, the SHL5s had a bigger, smoother sound and are more tolerant to equipment and cables than the others. ''

Very tolerant with the numerous amps, cables and stands that I have used.

"I would take arms against a sea of low sensitivity speakers, and by opposing, end them."

I'm with you, millercarbon. I much prefer a high-efficiency Tannoy Dual Concentric used with a SET amp.

ya get at least 3db by allowing out of phase cone movement which is…..wait for it…. 100% distortion……

Trash counts as output…..

i will take my pistonic cones any day…

and of course, i own ESL, planers and mechanical amplifier horns….that is how you learn and know…….

If I am able to give a like to akg_ca’s post, I’d do it.

Just to add, the old Monitor 30 is a far cry from the 30.1, 30.2 Anniversary and the latest 30.2 XD. If buying used, avoid the M30 at all cost as the sound is excessively shut-in, warm and thick with a severe lack in clarity and detail. Treble is rolled off and devoid of sparkle and extension.

With SHL5, the SHL5+, Anniversary or XD models are the ones to look out for. The older SHL5 does not sound as balanced as the later models.

Proac sounds leaner with an overall livelier sound. Airier and more sparkle in the treble. The small bookshelves particularly the Tablette 10 Signature is very popular.

Thanks to everyone for sharing their experiences. All are good to know.
I heard a friends 30.2s which were well powered and had proper peripheral gear. The room was similar in size to mine. They sounded much better than I thought they would. In the past I heard 5+s and 
thought the cabinet sound was enjoyable. ProAcs are hard to find to listen to. 
Jburdian, funny as I too have Tannoys now with dual concentric and may never switch. 
Steveashe, wow I too use a Pass INT25, Innuos Zen 3, You owned and enjoyed the Quad 63. I love quad sound but they fall apart.

Just to add, the old Monitor 30 is a far cry from the 30.1, 30.2 Anniversary and the latest 30.2 XD. If buying used, avoid the M30 at all cost as the sound is excessively shut-in, warm and thick with a severe lack in clarity and detail. Treble is rolled off and devoid of sparkle and extension.

Yeah, the 30 series monitors from Harbeth have grown progressively more open and forward in their sound signatures. At some point they’ll be as brash as KLIPSCHes and then we’ll know they’ve gone too far j/k

Harbeth C7ES3, had them for about 3 years, when fully broken in they were rich sounding without losing too much detail.  often magical sounding.  
SHL5+ for about a year, perfect for me.  Sensitive to toe in.  More transparent and neutral but still slightly rich and forgiving.  A near perfect balance of transparency and recording forgiveness with a pure, natural life like tone.  No sibilance or edginess.  Finished.  

Everyone has different taste.  I’ve auditioned Harbeth a number of times.  I have lived with the P3 for a short time. I have always found them very much recessed on vocals. Because of that, they are not for me.  So…. I say not to Harbeth.

Not sure Harbeth in US is value for money... I would go Devore first. In fact if they were cheap in UK I wouldn't have bothered with the 30.2 I had. Now have tannoy dual concentric and I couldn't be happier. 2.5 yrs now and never feel like I am missing anything... Any genre and level

Sounds like you should get Quads.

I had C7ES3s for five years and was happy with them, whether powered by Creek Evo 100 or Parasound Hint amp. I had considered upgrading to Monitor 30s or SHL 5s. Late last year, I found a good deal on Monitor 30.2 XDs and sold the C7s. The 30.2s sound somewhat more refined to my ears, and I too play at modest to moderate volumes. I play the 30.2s sometimes with and sometimes without support from Rythmic F8 subwoofers. I plan to continue enjoying these Harbeths for many years, although I would not pay full U.S. retail price for them. 

After auditioning 30.2 Anniversaries, I thought they were better but too similar to my Sonus Faber Cremona Ms to warrant a change. About 6 months later I bit on a pair of 40th Anniversary SHL5+ in Tamo Ash sitting on Deer Creek Audio stands. I recently switched from a VAC 160i integrated (87W with KT88s) to PASS INT-250 to a darTZeel CTH-8550 (200W into 8ohms and 330W into 4ohms) and it’s wonderful. I auditioned ProAc but just think the Harbeths are more musical. I listen 80% via a Lumin S1/Roon and 20% AMG Viella V12/Lyra Kleos. I’m always tempted by SET/high efficiency speakers at shows but then I just melt in my chair and let the hours go by in utter bliss. The speakers completely disappear. I do use a REL T9i crossed at 40Hz with a volume set so you can’t pick it out directly, but just feel a subtle more fullness. I’d really love to find someone who needs to downsize from their 40.2/40.3 and trade my SHL5+. To me the SHL5+ are a big step up from the 30.2/XD. I’m guessing the 40.2/3 will be as well.

I’m in Alan Shaw’s camp and not big into power cords or interconnects. I hear different tones, but no better or worse and after a few days I’m used to it. If I switch back then I hear it differently and again get rapidly used to it. I have high end gear and a very resolving system but I always fail a blind test so for me I use good quality used stuff. I use 3 PS Audio AC-12 power cords (bought for $100/each). A Nordost Frey 2 phono cable bought used for $500 and a Cardas Golden Reference XLR to connect the Lumin server (bought used for $450), and AudioQuest Rockefeller 2.5M 72V speaker speaker cables (bought used for $250). So my entire cables were $1500 total or about 2% of the cost of my system. YMMV. 

@jwcinsd

i agree with your assessment... to me c7 and shl5 are proper full range speakers whereas the mon 30 is a midrange/vocals monitor, more ’hyper accurate’ but lacking in bass support

the c7 and shl5 are specifically for domestic environments, and depending on placement and how much bass reinforcement is gained from that, they can be run with subs or are fine without them

that said, the mon 40 is a step up for sure, in all ways, but one needs to have the right (meaning a quite large volume) room for them, or else they may overwhelm, especially if placed anywhere near room boundaries

i also agree on your take about cabling... well said... yes different cabling affords a subtly different presentation, but better or worse in often dubious... especially once done intently a-b ing...

So, maybe my ears were not deceiving me when I found the 30.2s better than I expected. I plan to spend some time listening the 5+s at Hawthorne in a couple weeks. I do love quads sound. But I think my dual concentric Tannoys FSMs may remain as the last man standing. If somebody made an open baffle, 15" Dual Concentric speaker I would be forced to investigate.  Meantime the hunt continues.

Audiophiles hate this kind of thing, but using a low stand like the Mapleshade Bedrock can do wonders at low levels.  I had a pair years ago with some small monitors and it was quite amazing.  Yes, the image changes, but you can adjust the tilt to compensate.  Before you say no, try putting your speakers on the floor with a few books to tilt them up towards you and check it out.  Costs you nothing.

So my final take is:
-Chord ESL
-Rogers LS 3/5
-ProAc Tab
-SHL 5 +

Interesting thread.  I have the Super HL5+ (anniversary) and P3ESR SE.  I had the Super HL5+ in my main system for a while and eventually replaced them with KEF Reference 1.  I do like to listen loud sometimes and the Super HL5+ get a little edgy (my room, my electronics) when pushed, while the Ref 1 will take whatever I throw at them in stride.

The Super HL5+ are now in my office system, where I listen to jazz most of the day at low volume, and they are great for that.  I have them paired with an ARC Vsi55 50 WPC tube integrated.

The P3ESR are in my computer system set up near field.  I play these at fairly low volumes and they are great for all types of music.  I enjoy them more than the Super HL5+.  They are very balanced with just the right amount of detail.  They are powered by a Simaudio 600i solid state integrated and it's a really nice match.

A friend has the 40.2s.  They are some of the best speakers I've heard.  He listens at moderate levels and they sound simply amazing.  He has a really well treated room and had the Super HL5+ before the 40.2, and his HL5+ sounded a lot better there than mine do in my room, so I know the HL5+ can sound superb in the right conditions.

You mentioned taking a trip to Hawthorne.  If you're in the Seattle area, you should definitely check out Gig Harbor Audio also.  Eric loves the British sound and carries a few different British monitors.  He seems to be particularly enamored with the Graham Audio speakers.

Hopefully I don't lose what little bit of credibility I might have by saying this, but you should give some consideration to Klipsch.  Most people seem to associate Klipsch with loud rock, but at low to moderate listening levels the Heritage models really shine with acoustic music and vocals.  I have a pair of Klipsch Quartets that do those things better in some ways than the Harbeths or KEFs.  They only get "shouty" or "bright" when you crank up the volume.  I think you'd find them more like your Tannoys than different.  If you can find some older Heresy, Quartet, or Fortes you wouldn't have to spend much to try them out and if you buy used could flip them if they are not for you.  They aren't hard to sell.

b_greg-
Thanks for sharing the Harbeth experiences. Funny you mention
Gig Harbor Audio. I was there in August and listened to his Grahams.
Great retailer. Loves the Brits as I do. 
RE the Klipsch. Owned the Cornerhorns and the Chorus 1's, Altec Maestros (Which I miss sometimes) 
Not sure the Harbeth would be a best solution or not.
One speaker I am considering also is the Spendor BC1.

Me still have my M30.1 after 5 years .
sound right in my small room & with tube gear nothing matter anymore, just music flowing and enjoy listening.
cheer 

 I was gobsmacked by the difference in low level listening of my 30.1's,as well as the increase in bass depth & resolution when I moved a Sugden A21 Signature into the mix..Have moved up to a MusicMaster(16/24wpc.hot biased Class A from the Bijou series)driven by a R2R Dac running Class A..Currently torn between the 30.1's & moving to a 3 way floorstander,which I may put head to head with the 30.1's...

Free D,
If now that you have wiped off all the gob, please share with
everyone which floor stander you think may be even better at
low listening levels. BTW whose DAC is it?  

^^^^ Something more efficient,possibly Verity Audio Finn & have been in contact with Border Patrol regarding the latest Auditorium series from Living Voice(UK made)..IMO the combination of class a ss & a more efficient speaker= superb low level listening..
 DAC/Pre/Head Amp is Audio GD R28.

So by more efficient do you mean 90+ Sensitivity?

I use class a and 94 rated speakers and I think my low level
listening result is very good.

I am curious why SS out performs Tubes at lower levels.
Do you know why?