To Buy or to DIY, here is my question

Buying a factory built set of speakers while you are building your own is good advice. Way back when I was in high school it took me months to build the Speakerlab Khorns. It was good to build like that. I couldn't get in a rush for the next step. The result was crazy amazing for the bass and treble, but the midrange was not good to my ears. OTOH, I have built several different speakers since then with varying results, mostly fantastic. It helps to work with an engineer who gets the design side of things while I get woodworking side of the task.

 No doubt, they always end up costing more money and time as well.

   After seeing commercial cabinets, there are VERY FEW that build worth a crap, regardless of price/outward appearance. 

@jonwatches1, thanks for the compliment. I built those about 10/11 years ago but was not that happy with the finish. I used Woodoc Antique Wax but it came out a little blotchy so I rebuilt them as floorstanders which looked better and gained a few Hz down low.

That's my dear old Dad's Black and Decker alloy bodied drill lying on the floor which is about 50 years old, the drill that is, not the floor. 😀  Can't easily get that quality today. 

@mijostyn More great advice. Thanks. Great thread. I wish I had a wood shop...

@chorus , lots of interesting comments here. I will put on my woodworking teacher hat for a moment. Woodworking tools are extremely dangerous. Even the lowly little router can bite you badly if you do not know how to handle it correctly. You have to understand fully every machine you use, how it works and how it is likely to injure you. Even expert woodworkers get hurt once in a while by unforeseen circumstances. Hand tools are just as dangerous. I know one fellow who spent two weeks in hospital after skewering himself with a Japanese paring chisel. He violated one of the primary rules of woodworking, you NEVER cut towards yourself. If you have no woodworking experience or no access to a supervised shop but you really want to DIY you are way better off building a kit and there are many good ones available.  All the heavy machining has been done so it is just a matter of glue  up and finishing. There are finishers out there who will put a brilliant piano lacquer finish on for you.  

As an example of how complicated a certain process can get lets look at cutting a perfectly round 10" hole, one good enough to be visible. You can scribe the hole with a compass so you know where to cut, drill a 1/2' hole within the diameter of the 10" hole then cut the plug out with a jig saw. What you will get is a chipped out mess even if you have the steadiest of hands. The best way to do this in a small shop is to drill a 1/8" hole dead center of where you want your 10" hole to be. You get a hole cutting jig for your 1 HP router and attach it to the base. Load a 1/2" downward cutting carbide spiral bit and set the depth of cut to 1/4". Pass the 1/8" pin supplied with the jig through the 10" hole in the jig (there is a series of holes for various sizes) into the 1/8" hole you drilled. With the router just off the work start it up and plunge it into the wood. Make your circle spinning it around the pin and release the trigger. When the router comes to a dead stop remove it from the work. Now you have a perfect circle with a beautifully finished edge. If you had used an upward cutting bit there would have been tear out all over the place. Why not cut all the way through the 3/4" board? It is too large a cut for a router that size. You will get shudder which will ruin the cut. Now you drill a 1/2" hole anywhere inside the circle and use your jig saw to cut out the plug staying 1/8" inside the finished edge. Finally, you flip the board board over, put a downward cutting spiral carbide bit with a bottom bearing follower into your router and finish off the bottom of the hole following the top, pushing against the cut. Now you have a perfect 10" hole and you can use this piece as a jig to cut out any other 10" holes you need to cut using router bits with bearing followers. You just spent $600 on tools and tooling forgetting about the knowledge to do it right. 

I am not trying to scare you. You can make an excellent sounding loudspeaker but unless you have a lot of experience it is not going to look so hot and hopefully you will be careful enough not to get hurt by reading up on each tool you use and making test cuts to get the hang of it. 

@chorus - maybe these are parallel decisions, not substitutes? DIY speakers a hobby where experience can lead to great results. Not possible to duplicate the engineering or construction of the ProAcs, and why bother if DIY? Point of DIY is doing your own thing (at least for me). But 100% do a separate project - even if the first try at DIY speakers don’t meet expectations, you will learn a ton

Consider outsourcing the cabinet to someone with direct experience - cabinet from scratch not possible without real workshop, and assembling a cabinet kit to good level of quality requires space & some real tools. Cabinet kits can be assembled by any local cabinet maker. I do this b/c just don’t have time or setup for cabinets. Lets one spend time thinking about the drivers, xover, doing some soldering, etc.

Zero resale value for DIY speakers absent specialized circumstances, nor possible to give them away (sorry). Drivers worth maybe 10% of cost. Fun expectation, however, is to re-use electronics in different designs, etc.

@lemonhaze + 1; where did you get the cabinets pictured? (3rd party design, kit, pre-assembled?)  Look terrific 

Have a great day

chorus,

You obviously have more experience and knowledge than I did when starting audio DIY stuff, so I’m sure what you do will be a success.

Given how many acoustic panels you built, I image you have some on the ceiling.  Since I had horns for the upper frequencies, I figured their vertical directional control would be sufficient.  But bass traps in four corners and first and second reflection point treatments making the type of difference you experienced, added some for the ceiling’s reflection point.  It was so helpful I added two more behind them - not as much of a difference, but still worth it.

I don’t have experience with sealed cabinets, but did appreciate the ability to tune the ports on mine - I used two 4” round ports with adjustable length tubes vs. the cutout in the baffle Altec used on the Model 19.

“perkri" offered some good advice and port tuning is another way you can tailor things to your taste you can’t do, (or nearly as easily), with store bought.

With the Altec Model 19, some said raised the tuning frequency of the Altec 416 woofer enhanced the midrange with a just a little sacrifice of low frequency reach.  Sounded good but preferred the balanced sound with cabinet tuned to Great Plains Audio’s suggested 29 Hz - just 4 Hz difference.

You’re right on the mark about multi-directional bracing in the cabinet, especially front to back in the center.

You may already know which capacitors you'd use, but in case you didn’t see this article: https://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html.

After trying 3 different caps, the descriptions he gave were quite consistent with what I heard and a noticeable improvement over stock grade.  

There’s snow on the ground here, but my JBL 29AV speakers do a decent job taking care of outdoor music.  Still, you’re right, there’s nothing like a large, high efficiency speaker with proper power played outside, especially with a well recorded live album.  So enjoy your music indoors and out.

Buy the Proac D40Rs.

Or Living Voice OBX and a sub.

 

These were the second pair of speakers I built. They were built for a friend. He was needing to keep himself busy while dealing with cancer. I convinced him to get a new pair of speakers so as to inject some new interest in his system and thereby reconnecting with his music while dealing with his health issues. He wanted a three way speaker, something akin to his Spendors. I convinced him to try something completely different - something he would never in a million years have access to commercially. If he bought the wood and drivers, I would build whatever speaker he wanted. He agreed to these. My feeling was if was getting me to build something, they should be a new sonic experience. If he didn’t like them, he would likely be able to sell them and at least get a chunk of the money back. He has had people wanting to buy them, but he has not parted with them yet :)

Telling this story because DIY allows for new speaker types to be tried, with comparatively little in the way of money being required. And if the building provides joy, then it’s not work, its pleasure. They are the big double backloaded horns.

 

Perki,

Great advice. What effects a build is stress and rushing it, Sometimes you need to step. back until all the pieces if the puzzle fall into place, 

I'm in production and time is money but sometimes you have to abandon that thought to get the end result you are wanting. 

DIY is a process. And the process is it’s own reward. 
 

Since COVID hit, I’ve built several dozen pairs of speakers. DIY speakers are like potato chips. Once you start, it’s very difficult to stop after just one.

Tuning a speaker will help teach you how to listen. Tiny changes in damping, stuffing, crossover components, crossover design will all show you what is, and is not possible to do.

I would suggest starting, as others have suggested, with something simple. If you are handy and can build a square box with accurate dimensions and a couple of holes in it, there is no need to buy a flat pack. And start with an inexpensive design. Use inexpensive components. Think of this as a sketch, a playful experiment. Don’t expect it to be a showpiece out of the gate. Do expect to be surprised to find how little it takes to have something sound decent. That, and how difficult it is to make something truly exceptional. Keep it manageable, both from a technical build part and from an expenditure standpoint. The less stress you place on yourself for the first build, the more enjoyable it will be. What you learn from listening to the build will forever change how you listen to your system. You will literally be put inside the gear.

@gdaddy1 Thanks so much for taking the time to share your great tips.

Okay time for some replies:

 

OldSchool- I built a dozen Owens Corning 703 2' x 4' panels 3 years ago.

Nearly cried when I heard the improvement.

Then again if I take my gear outside to the patio and

listen, well I just want to move out there permanently.

 

Re all Altec Model 19 proponents. Agreed a great  speaker.

I owned the Altec Maestro 500s. Basically the 19 in a pro version.

Modded them up and moved on.

 

If I build anything it will have only the best components and drivers.

The XO will be designed by someone way better that most. Like

Danny Richie.  

No-Rez inside and braced every which way. 

 

Undecided whether to port or not. 

 

Jonk & Phus- My goal is for the speaker to double as a toaster.

Could not agree more with your perspectives.

 

Rustybut  & Drumax- Funny you should include the Linkwitz photo

from November in Heraldsburg. I was in the room. I liked the effect 

but those speakers have no presence in my book. Also too hideous

to be allowed out in public.

 

 

Thanks for the support!!!

 

 

@sandthemall thx, I am just trying to be a perpetual student… I think everyone should DIY some audio gear…

best to all

jim

OK!  DIY!  I have now rebuilt a half dozen serious pairs of speakers.  From the 4 foot high towers by 1970s Bose Corporation to AR-3s and a pair of Advent's, both by Henry Kloss.  There are others that I call my 'Zombie' line as all are really fine boxes that I strip of everything.  The cheap junk you can pull out of these old masters is surprizing and mostly way too cheap.  With classic cabinets I have all the data I need to proceed.  

What I do is so far superior to what I have found in units like the 7speaker Sansui frat house monsters with poorly insulated 28 AWG cheap copper wire not fit for the lights I put on my boat trailer.  

My last began with a full real wood new veneer on a Henry Kloss Advent that was vinyl on MDF.  I treated the vinyl with bleach and painted with primer for wood glue to hold.  Many coats of Total-Boat water based 'varnish'.  The veneer was Birch and finished in a light shade.  New frames were cut for the screens and new screening was applied.  The interior was fully lined with the sound absorbing 'egg crate' style damping.  I mark out where the plate for the crossover will go and I painted 2 or 3 coats of Acoust-X on the surface to protect and pad the crossover.

I put solid brass fittings cut and plated with gold with a mounting plate for speaker wire termials.  Multi-able with banana plug fittings.  From the terminals I connect in the box between terminal and crossover connection with 12 AWG premium speaker wire.  I use the same 12 AWG to connect crosssover with Mid and Woofer.  This time I used 20AWG pure solid silver speaker wire from crossover to the tweeters.  ($80 for 6 ft and worth every penny).  The wiring alone is a major step up from all but the ten grand or higher priced commercial offers.  And even some of them!

I installed pre-made Eminence 3-way crossovers rated for 200 watts.  This went on to feed planar ribbon tweeters, an 8" Emenince mid and a 12" Community VERIS series woofer.  Got a deal on the woofers and all drivers for under $500.00  Another $75 for each crosssover and $3.75 per foot of speaker wire sans the silver.

All in for under $1,000 and would blow Henry Kloss away to hear this now!  And well driven with a 70 watt Marantz intergrated amp.  My Peachtree X-1s  with 440 watts per channel can make the really sing out too.  I live in a house with neighbors and people and find that 70 watts is more than plenty. 

My first real effort some time ago taught me a lot about what goes on in a speaker cabinet.  I had gone to Radio Shack and bought pairs of mids and woofers to fit the old Bose Inter-Audio 4s.  Got all four drivers for about $50.  That sounded better but the overall sound was bad.  I replaced the tweeters.  Still bad.  I got new Mids.  Better, not good.  Now with some experience I returned to Parts Express and put all B & C components in after stripping the box again.  These are a highly articulated set of speakers and only took about 4 rounds to get to what sounded just right. 

And if I had $20,000 each for speakers, where would they go?  I love the big Focals, but that is not 'home style' listening and I would need another $100,000 for amps and speaker wires.  And then a gun to keep everybody the hell out of here when I want to listen to some Yusef Lateef jazz or any and all of Joni Mitchell's catalogue.  I will take it to my 'bunker' (aka man cave but I don't live in a cave) that is just the right size to sip a bourbon and burn a Michigan joint and be blissed out with what I have managed to 'put together' and now own.  And with the money I did not spend I bought a new Rega 6 turntable and a new CD player and a Vincent 701 phono pre-amp upgraded with a rare Brimar tube.  

Just got my copy of the vinyl set from Frank Zappa and a release of what is called his last concert in the U.S. before failing health and death.  I think it is late enough to head to my 'studio bunker'.  

The folk tune I remember about "...You got to walk that lonesome valley, you got to walk it by yourself;  ain't nobody gonna walk it for you, you gotta walk it by yourself! DIY!!!

  

   

@tomic601,

Thanks for getting the joke. I knew well that you might actually be more knowledgeable than me when I wrote that...lol.

@sandthemall Thank you for the compliment, nobody has called me “ kid “ lately, brings back memories custom building crossovers with a FFT running on a Comadore PET in 1982… ah to be young again….

wishing you the best in music

Jim

My future speaker build

cut 6  holes in Tennessee Cedar, 2 FR + 3 to 4 tweeters

Screw drivers in,. waaaa laaaa done. 

Open Baffel is the only way to design FR. Boxes trash the sound of a   FR. 

8  months will upload pics

@tomic601 

That construction sounds neat and super complicated. But why would I ever need to build it like that? Because someone else did? Some people will have a tough time building a speaker...I'm not one of those. Nice try kid.

chorus,

Not to get off subject, but if you’re going to have your tools out anyway, a simpler DIY project with much higher return on investment vs. store bought is building your own acoustic panels since the room dimensions and how it’s acoustically treated will have the biggest influence on how your speakers end up sounding.

GIK Acoustics carries Knauf’s ECOSE material, much better to work with than fiberglass, and some Guilford of Maine acoustic fabric gives you top quality components.  For frames, use premium pine one-by (3/4” actual thickness) trim the appropriate width and assembled with glue and pocket screws.  Get fancy and add some gussets in the corners to help position and hold the material and you’re good to go for absorption treatment.

 

lemonhaze,

Very impressive cabinet build - no plain wooden boxes there!  Enjoy your Tannoy project.

 

Another unmentioned advantage is the unusually wide sweet spot created when these waveguide speakers are severely toed in, because of the proximity effect. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ what kind of snakeoil is this. ??? ***wave guide**??? Trying to reinvent the wheel, Speakers all started back in late 1920's, FULL RANGE. xovers are nothing but distortion. Tweeters are not made to go below,,, or lets say tweeters perform BEST 5k hz . Below 5k, you are asking for distortion/breakups. Opera w soloists, chorus, orchestra all going off at once, Tweeters below 5khz sound like crapola

@oldschoolsound, Zilch was the backbone of that long thread and his passing a big loss.  My current speakers are some cheap OB jobs but when finished house repairs I will try Tannoy MG15 OB with helper woofer/s below.

The last speaker I built with a waveguide used the 18 Sound alloy unit with, I think, an Eminence 10" below which were sold to a mate and later rebuilt as floorstanders. Every time he upgraded amps or cables the speakers came to the party and revealed the superior components. With some encouragement from me he installed some room treatment and these things now sing along beautifully. When we switched temporarily back to some Missions he had they sounded ... well they were very quickly removed.

The econowave or similar style using either the cheap but excellent JBL $9.99 waveguide or the more recently developed SEOS waveguide come in at about 97dB sensitivity, so with low power amps can fill the room easily and because these components are from the pro-sound sector 😲 can blow you out the room with 500W amps.

Another unmentioned advantage is the unusually wide sweet spot created when these waveguide speakers are severely toed in, because of the proximity effect.   

Just my 2 cent opinion, Here ya go, worlds best midrange My 1955 Puccini Turnadot Erede as conductor La Scala UNREALL, No xover speaker in the universe will touch this midrange. Even unto Wilson’s 800K design. Dual FR rules. I’ve heard many a speaker in my 40 yrs, nothing comes even close to a DIY dual FR. In midrange Got another tweeter in the plans. 

 

 

@johnk --

"If you have no skills are lazy or have no time then off the shelf is what you get. If you have skills an open mind and are craving something unique then DIY is the way to go. Kits are fine but it's not like going your own way. And those who say DIY can not look good are only interested in what the mass market gives them. Anything that's different is perceived as wrong they crave the boring imported rectangles and cubes. A toaster must look like a toaster."

Well said. Regarding looks it's also disheartening seeing veneered cabinets being covered in freakin' layers of shiny lacquer, to such degree even that any semblance with actual wood is mostly gone. Isn't that somehow analogous with the sonic imprinting of "off the shelf" speakers in general and what's typically preferred here; something "shiny" and covering the real texture and organic feel of what's being reproduced? To me at least a DIY approach or what otherwise eschews the usual, pre-assembled product can be the better way to accommodate said texture and organic feel of something real, both one way and the other. 

lemonhaze,

I smiled when I read you comments about the importance of the crossover being so important and laughed when you recommended the Altec Model 19.  So I accept your statement that great minds think alike!

The cabinet houses only the woofer and a slightly taller and smaller version of the ALtec 620 cabinet.

My crossover is the Zilch Z-19.  As you know, he separated the woofer in the circuit since it didn’t need the L-pads.  That crossover is mounted in the cabinet with proved cap and inductor.  The HF portion is outside so I could try different capacitors.  Started with affordable Solen PB-MKP’s to figure out a layout and in case I messed something up.  Sounded impressive.  Coincidentally, today I finished a new HF crossover build using Jantzen Superior Z-caps and Mill resistors and the improvement - to my ears and for what I was looking for - was very rewarding.

As you know, Zilch was the mastermind behind the Econowave.  His posts were very helpful throughout my DIY project.  What speakers are you running theses days?

 

chorus, 

So if you go the DIY route, look up some of Zilch’s posts for general build insights, regardless of what speaker design you go with.  And if you decide, now or later, to build a high sensitivity speaker with it life-like dynamics, (and ability to tame the highs with the right gear), you could build a set of Klipsch Chorus for your name’s sake.

Enjoy the music.

@oldschoolsound, Well looks like we were recommending the same thing at about the same time. We have to accept that great minds think alike.

So Mr. Chorus, gotta be something in it innit?

It is entirely possible to build a speaker that will easily outperform a commercial one for the same money, though it may not look as nice.

There are many designs available by great designers that provide the volume of enclosure required, the crossover schematic and the names of the drivers to use. To get them to sing the box can be really heavily braced and battened and the parts for the crossover can be upgraded.

With a commercial speaker there are many constraints that prevent them from sounding as good as they could. If the cabinet was braced and used lots of timber to quieten the walls then the volume of box would by necessity increase to accommodate the extra support. This then makes for heavy and expensive shipping and together with the extra size makes for a less attractive sale. Also the XO parts are chosen to 'do the job' so the components will be reliable but rather pedestrian in sound.

Even expensive speakers use low priced parts. For example the series tweeter cap may cost $1 each but for your DIY units it's not that much of a stretch to pay $25 each. So a good design, stiff cabinet and carefully chosen XO components and you have a fine set of speakers.

Someone mentioned using a prefab XO.  This definitely is not the way to go. The XO is the heart of the speaker.

Another approach is to buy a classic like the Altec Model 19  This is a brilliant speaker which can be improved by reinforcing the cabinet and rebuilding the XO. The battens to stiffen the rear panel should be mounted outside to avoid changing the port tuning. Just keep all values the same but avoid those nasty cheap white sand cast resistors and consider having the XO outside the box. Use low-mass speaker terminals and wire internally with single core OCC copper.

There was a thread that went on for years: 'the econowave' there is tons of info and reviews of various builds. A properly done speaker using a waveguide with a compression driver is impressive and IMO far superior to the ubiquitous me-too box with dome tweeter. Also many out there using the SEOS waveguide which measures as good as anything available with excellent measured performance. The transients from this type are startling and dynamics scary.

Remember Pink Floyd don't play through no stinkin' 1" dome tweeter. 😁

Try this:

 

chorus,

As many have said, DIY speakers can be rewarding, frustrating, a great learning experience and worth it in the end.  Mine, basically a modified Altec Model 19, took longer than I planned to get all the details right and allow for a learning curve, but I’m pleased with the end result.  

Since you’ve been doing some research, you probably know these things, but here’s what I learned along the way.

 

Cabinets:  

Mine are 3/4” 11-ply void-free Baltic birch - see my Audiogon aviator, or whatever you call it.  Not having the ability to make fancy carpenter joints, corners have 1-1/2 inch wide 3/4” Baltic birch strips used to brace all around the edge of the sides/front/back and then pocket screwed into top and bottom pieces.  Also a complete circle around the middle which is tied together with a brace that goes from front to back.  

Diagonal pieces on sides, front, and back to dampen cabinet resonance.  Lots of glue and wood screws and then all corner seams caulked.  

Back is removable, (required as the woofer is rear mounted and I wanted to have access to tune the ports), and attached with threaded inserts and machine screws every 3 inches.  Speaker gasket keeps the removable back air tight.

I cut each piece as best I could with some margin to spare and then took them to local cabinet maker to get everything matched and square.

To add some dimension to the look, the sides are recessed 3/4” on the sides and 3/8” from front and back edges.  The front and back panels are recessed 3/4” from top/bottom edge and 3/8” from side edges.  Speaker and port cutouts edges are beveled.  Not everyone’s idea of good looking, but better than a plain wooden box.

Danish oil provides a nice and durable finish without brush marks.  Others have suggested spraying the finish on, especially if a color is used, or you can build the corners flush and then add veneer depending on what you prefer.  I needed mine to be simple.

The cabinets are each about 85 pounds without speakers, air tights and rock solid, yet still manageable to move around.

Regarding insulation inside the cabinet, follow the speaker manufacture’s recommendation.

 

Crossovers:  

Nice to be able to choose capacitors based on their sonic characteristics.  As other’s have said, it is very important so use a proven circuit for those drivers and the cabinet type and size they will be in.  Does Madisound have a crossover for these specific speakers? 

Use point-to-point connections with the capacitor, inductor and resistor leads as much as possible.  Use compression type connectors if you need to vs. spade connectors, (takes an extra solder joint), if all connections can’t be soldered.  

Solid core wire is much easier to use for short pieces to be “shaped” in tight quarters, to have clean ends and get a good solder joint.  Lots of opinions on wire size, but 20 gauge for short lengths in crossovers has been what those who know much more than me have suggested and worked great.  (You might be surprised to see what manufactures use vs. bigger is better notion.)  I did go 18 on woofer connections because I had it, but many output transformers in tube amps use 20 gauge on short leads to speaker terminals.  

Use stranded of course for wire runs to the drivers, 20 gauge is plenty for mid and HF drivers.  18 gauge if soldering to woofer; thicker wire can wick heat making it hard to get a good solder joint.  I’ve found quad eutectic silver solder with rosin core to give best results.  

Good luck, and let us know how your project goes.

I gravitate towards open baffle speakers sonically but they tend to look butt ugly aesthetically. 

Have you heard the  Linkwitz LX521  personally/

mod_asored,

 

The locking miter takes a little bit of math to get your joints right.  Then add a tapered cabinet and you've added a degree of complexity to it. 

Another benefit to this joint is it holds whatever adhesive you use well as opposed to a traditional mitered corner. 

I'n not veneering but instead opting for a high grade piano white paint finish. The front baffle will be most likely an Italian graphite colored leather with chrome plated brass trim rings for the drivers.

That Audio Technology woofer 10C77 is the main reason for this speaker build. It is an amazing performing bass driver. 

You've got the budget to do the Linkwitz LX521 kit.  Not counting amplification, your cost will be around $3500.   Your choice of amplification will have a lot to do with the final project cost.  This will be your "forever" loudspeaker.  Trust me.  Easily stands up against any $50k+ commercial product.  Just friggin' amazing.

They look like audio frequency transmission towers...  So your best bet is to take them to an auto body paint shop.   Here are some images of a the CBT36 kit (I was not impressed with the sonics) a friend built.  They look incredible.

image 1
Image 2

Image 3

That is a pretty cool choice, I was gonna build that one and then decided against it as I had a hard time with the non-90-degree cuts as I did struggle with that on the gluing side on my center channels, I had to do a redo and went square.

My advice in the gluing is to make sure you have 2 extras helping when it comes time and do 3-4 dry runs with them before doing it. If you do a nice job on the cabinets, consider going to a cabinet maker to laminate and finish.

Good luck

I’ve decided to do the Troels Gravesen’s design Atell 3. A DIY version of Kaiser’s classic speaker.

I like to break each individual part down for a build and then mock up each part to insure it to my satisfaction before starting on the production version,

For instance I made custom trim rings to mechanically fasten the drivers to the front baffle. I manufactured the metal trim ring and recessed it into the material I have chosen to build front baffle with. I can use machine screws now to fasten the drivers instead of using a dry wall diameter wood screw and screwing it into MDF with a front baffle that resonates.

I did the same with the dual rear firing port. I created trim rings that go on outside port flare to give it a high quality look.

For the joints I took the degree pitch of the cabinet and made a mini mock up of edge with locking 45 miters.

I made a mock up of the custom footers as well.

The crossovers are going to be external so I designed a crossover box that mimics the speaker. I can take the crossover and set it on top of that speaker and the edges and angles all match up. Not that I will set it there but to illustrate that the crossover wasn't an after thought and speaker design was integrated into the crossover to be a matching set. 

I’ll use clear scratch-free Lexan for crossover top so crossovers can be displayed as I will get them to rival the Kaisers external crossovers.

So my suggestion is to work out all these details and lock in your measurements and zero out your tooling so your start positions are set for your production run.

Just my .02 cents

Have you built speakers before?

I've done a lot of DIY, especially with wood, and including speakers and crossovers, and I'll tell you right now that it will always take more time than you think and be more expensive than you think. Especially if you need to buy the tools to do it, such as saws, saw guides, router, router bits, drill, drill bits, hole saws, sanders, soldering iron, veneer tools and clamps. Clamps alone could run a couple hundred dollars. You'll also need supplies, like sandpaper, stain, brushes, solvent, veneer, polyurethane, glue, etc. A good stain like General Finishes will run $35-50. And you'll need batting, internal wire, terminal cups, grill cloth, feet, and crossover parts (which can be hundreds of dollars), etc. Even wood is very expensive right now.

It will also be more time-consuming. If you're inexperienced you will make mistakes. And if you are experienced you may tend to want to push your skills to the point of making mistakes. Mistakes cost money.

Unless you're highly skilled, I would say stay away from DIY unless you achieve personal satisfaction from the idea of creating things. If it's just about saving money, you likely won't.

I built custom speaker systems for a living for 14 years (and moonlighted as a musician and live sound tech), including pro sound reinforcement, studio monitors and hi-fi speaker systems. The company that I worked for had access to raw speakers lines the likes of JBL Pro Series, Altec Lansing, Electro-voice, KEF, and several other brands. Of course I built my own systems several times over the years as well since I could access the components for dealer cost + 5%.

My advice to you is save up for the factory builts. You will thank me later :)
 

@crustycoot 

Indeed, sometimes the main reason to DIY is a creative dissatisfaction with commercial offerings.  It's like making your own dinner.  Yes, it's cheaper to eat at home, but sometimes you want a meal just so and the only way to get it is to make it yourself.

Of course, not everyone can cook, but if you are patient and willing to put in the effort and have good mentors you can definitely make exactly the meal you were looking to make.

For me I wanted to put together two really excellent drivers in a small two way (failed on the "smal" part! 😂) with exactly the capacitors I wanted to try out.  That was my drive.  It was never to undercut any retail product, but of course at a 10x markup, I don't think I would have been able to afford my speakers if found at retail.

Im thinking about putting together the CSS Criton TDX’s or one of Dannys kits.  The finish on Pro AC is awesome.  Unless you are looking for a project just spend the $8k on the Pro Ac’s.  

What attracted you to the Proac speakers?

Have you seen https://meniscusaudio.com/product/er18mtm-ribbon-pair/

should sound similar to the Proac’s and what you’ll learn and the satisfaction derived could make up for the sound difference if any.

 

Also a fun read with some insight on what DIY entails.  

https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1637209185

 

How much to build mine?

 

"@chorus I did build some Speakerlab cornerhorns once."

Well, building another set will be even easier then.  If you are not buying a DIY kit, paying for plans of a well proven and well tested design helps when the crossover and enclosure specs are included. Saves time to focus on a quality build for yourself.

Go DIY, my friend!  The satisfaction you experience will be tremendous! Every time you time your system on, you will smile. Most of the cost of "built" speakers is labor, cosmetics, and R&D. It's the drivers, the cabinet, and the crossovers that count. If you can get the cabinet pre-cut, that will help a lot (but shipping is expensive) and save you a lot of time. How the finished project looks is up to you. As long as no one in the house throws a fit, it doesn't have to look marvelous. GO FOR IT!

currently doing a set of DIY LS3/5a monitors and I am excited to hear how they will sound.

drivers are proven and matched.

had a shop CNC the MDF for the cabinets to my spec including bracing and grille frames.

crossovers were the biggest learning curve. online calculators are worthless.

download the program Xsim and experiment with it. with some online research I came up with a superb crossover design and know what parts to change if the voicing is too rich or too lean.

if they work out i sell my harbeths.  

I met at a CES show in N.Y. years ago one of the heads of the factory from Proac. He said they used 'stock' Scan speak speakers off the shelf. He said what made their speakers special was all about the cabinet and the extremely beautiful book-matched veneers. So, unless you have excellent woodworking skills and a shop and a finishing booth with spray equipment you won't get the same results.

However, you CAN build your own speakers that sound every bit as good as good as factory built speakers. Danny Richie sells kits that are excellent quality. He is an expert crossover designer also. For fun I recently finished a kit from Swan that are incredibly good 3 way speaker kit. I made crossover changes and set them on 12" subwoofers. They are incredibly good with proper modification.

Whatever kit you choose the biggest challenge will be how to get them to look good. Everyone always tries to duplicate a factory veneer finish and they always look armature.  Here is a method I use to produce beautiful looking speaker and takes minimal table saw skill. NO spray booth, stains or finishing and yields a beautiful high end look. The box is square. I glue a 1/4" rounded wood molding from Home Depot to the outside edge. This gives the speaker a nice rounded edge from the front. Fill and sand so it's a perfect smooth appearance. Then simply spray can a flat black finish to the face. This leaves the remaining sides of the cabinet unfinished. They sell all kinds of beautiful pre-finished veneer at Floor & Decor. I got some  'African Tiger' wood that was amazing. It matches the same 1/4" thickness and mates perfectly to the 1/4" molding. Carefully cut and fit each piece and glue it to the MDF cabinet. The only requirement is a thin sharp table saw blade to cut the 45 degree angles. The pre-finished flooring 'clicks' together for a perfect seem fit. After you cut and fit all the pieces you are done!!  You end up with a professional finish that looks amazing.  A flat black, rounded, front face that flows into a red and black African Tiger wood. This looks far BETTER than most square face,veneer speakers. BTW... the selection of colors of pre-finished wood flooring is HUGE and the finish is as good as it gets.

No painting my subwoofer cabinets either. They are finished in high gloss black granite. I have a tile wet saw and using urethane glue attached the granite to the mdf cabinet. This was not only beautiful but added mass and rigidity to the cabinet like nothing I've ever seen.

I am an experienced cabinet builder with over 50 years experience and I'm always unimpressed with DIY veneer cabinets. The staining and finishing is far more difficult than most people realize. The above method will yield a far better result, faster build time for less money.

You CAN definitely DIY an excellent pair of high end speakers. The 'Factory' doesn't have a magic wand to wave over their finished speakers. If done properly diy can outperform many factory speakers costing thousands more. Do the research and find out what makes a speaker box sound good (or ask Danny Riychie) Then finish it properly so it looks awesome.

Good luck!

A lot of deep thought coming to the surface-Thanks!

Some excellent experience sharing as well!!

I have some skills and I am lazy by nature.

I am communicating with Madisound to get

some initial advice. 

Jonk- Enjoyed your response. Thanks.

Mendel- Now I'm spinning a little.

 

I did this. My Take

1) I wouldn't even consider going down this path without a proved speaker design from a reputable designer.

2) It is more about the integration of the speaker drivers and the voicing of the crossover than just picking drivers you like. The drivers may be the easiest part.

3) The box is a big deal and you do need to have good wood working skills.

4) The crossover soldering is also harder than you think, I had the advantage of having someone at work who does it for a living do it for me.

My story is I used Troels Gravesen's designs. I think most see him as the best. I made 3 different speakers, bookshelves (Scanspek), center(Seas), and the Faital 3C-15. Bookshelves and Center took 3 months each, the Faital more like 5 months. My woodworking joints were impeccable, they need to be. I also spent a lot of time on finishing so they would be acceptable in the home.

I never thought in my life I would have such a good sounding system, honestly. The bookshelf/center is meant for the family room entertainment center, I have them in the garage and I am in there every night for an hour looking for an excuse to stay out there, they now have about 1000 hours on them and they get better and better. The 3wc-15's are absolutely amazing, I just melt into the music and can sit there for 3-4 hours at a time.

If you are committed, have a great attention to detail and it is important to you, do it. If you really do a good job and use good veneers, you can make them look pretty nice, you can also send to a cabinet mater for finishing if WAF is an issue. I built a paint booth in the garage and was able to get a really nice finish.

If you do it, let us know how they come out.

 

If you have no skills are lazy or have no time then off the shelf is what you get. If you have skills an open mind and are craving something unique then DIY is the way to go. Kits are fine but it's not like going your own way. And those who say DIY can not look good are only interested in what the mass market gives them. Anything that's different is perceived as wrong they crave the boring imported rectangles and cubes. A toaster must look like a toaster.

If I were to do this without DSP I would keep the drivers in separate enclosures as small as possible even open (except for the woofer). This will allow you to move them relative to each other. Using the calibrated microphone you can measure the group delays and move the speakers to get them all time aligned which if you are lucky will also get them phase aligned. This should be done outside to avoid reflections that can confuse things. Once you get the locations figured out you can mount them in a framework maintaining those relative locations ala Wilson.

@chorus , by all means! If you are looking for point source speakers DIY is the best way to go with a few caveats. I would stick with drivers that have the same radiation characteristics. Putting a ribbon tweeter (line source) in a point source loudspeaker is going to significantly change the frequency balance with even small movements in the room. Keeping the drivers phase and time correct is not easy and frequently results in some very complicated crossovers which are impossible for the novice to design. You can stick a basic crossover in there but you will not get the best imaging. You can not do this well without a calibrated microphone system. Depending on luck does not work well with speaker design. If you do not want to get involves with DSP you will have to get very inventive. But, that is the fun in it!

Cost / Benefit thought experiment: You receive the Proac D40Rs
as a gift? What then? 

Price and cost are not the same.

I work at a high end retailer.  I can buy name brand speakers for 50% off or less.  Nevertheless, I built my own.  2 reasons...none of our brands make what I wanted my speakers to be in terms of size, form factor, etc.  AND, even at half price I was not willing to pay for what we sell...all too expensive.  I am not a big one for luxury goods.

My concept was a 7" woofer in a 1.5 cubic foot vented box, with a 2" dome MR and ribbon tweeter.  So I ordered a set of drivers and prefab cabinets from Parts express and paid a cabinet shop in town to rout the front baffles for them.  I bought prefab crossovers from PE, and used in-line L pads to match driver efficiency to get the best blend.  Version 1 did not satisfy me.  Next I swapped out the Aluminum dome MR for Soft dome.  Still not what I wanted.  Then I recreated the crossovers with higher quality components and somewhat different points.  Still not good enough.

At this point I scrapped my original design for one using a completely different MR-TW concept.  I sent the driver selection to Tony G. at humblehomemadehifi.com in Holland, and had Madisound fabricate my crossovers using premium parts, bought another pair of front baffles from PE, and eliminated the L-pads.  These are what I have now.  I wound up spending something like $2.7K on all the parts, labor, design fee for Tony, etc. including all iterations.  My speakers aren't perfect, but for well made symphonic recordings, they are quite satisfyingly true sounding.  Their low end surpasses that of the 6.5" 2-ways that go for around $10K at the shop, and without a robust low end, symphonic material just sounds unbalanced.

So I am firmly in favor of DIY unless....if you are a perfectionist and cannot stop fiddling until you get it just right, you may never get there.  OR, if you can easily afford the speaker of your dreams, then do so and you can always tinker in your spare time for fun!