Thiel CS2.4 to what?

There are literally dozens of good choices.  If it were me, Vandersteen 3a sigs new, or Treo used, or Revel Performa, or used gets you into their higher line.  

Interesting you said Vandersteen... always loved the sound from the 5's at Audio Connection (when we lived in NJ). Was thinking Quatro. I don't think the room can handle the 5's.

Klipsch Heresy III and sub if desired would be fun and something different to try before dropping big bucks.  

+1 Bowers and Wilkins 804 D3

They are wonderful speakers.

Cheers,

Scott

I've heard the Heresy III's and not overly impressed. Lots of drive, but tiresome to listen to over time. I've found that will all Klipsch.

Interesting suggestion on the B&W... I haven't heard the newest version D3, but I've heard previous versions. There's always been something holding me back though, can't put my finger on it. Probably time to listen to them again.

Perhaps adding a couple of Thiel SS2 subs would do the trick.

You might like Totem's. Changing Cardas to PAD might give you some life. I would probably tune the Theils in a little. Every time I get a major component I end up getting many other things and it all takes more time, but as they say part of the fun is in the journey. 

I’m listening to my 2.4’s right now. It takes a bit of work to get them to work. The main reason being they reproduce what’s fed into them. Unfortunately most of my music wasnt recorded in audiophile grade quality. Things can get shrill.  Of course good recording sound amazing!

That being said, I added a REL 328 sub and that  gave the much needed drive I was looking for.

If you get rid of the Thiels you will miss the clarity they render,. But good equipment, esp. the amp is essential. 

Emerald Physics speakers play way above their price point, especially if wired with WireWorld (a $500 upgrade on my KCIIs) . Some are available without DSP. I am so amazed with the bass performance that I am selling my 2 SVS Subs (Ultra & Plus)

Nice plug, very subtle.

I hope you weren't implying that I make money for doing so. They are incredible speakers for the money.

This was made even more evident of late.

I replaced my Emerald Physics 100.2SE power amps, and a Parasound P5 with built-in dac. I owned these for a couple years. I replaced them with  Audio Alchemy DP-1 amp/dac-pre, stereo amp. The Oppo 105 was the lone holdover. When listening to Red Book I used it as a transport via toslink.

First I did the amp/dac-pre with the Oppo Weeks later, I decided to insert a decade+ old Pioneer PD 65- inverted platter (for red books) . It was modded by Musical Concepts with an outboard power supply

Each and every time I replaced gear with better gear, the KCIIs sounded better and by a cavernously wide margin.

Sorry, I just though someone would like to know

So maybe I need to add a subwoofer? I moved the speakers a bit further into the room and the center image just simple locked in place. Thiels are revealing, no question about that, but they do seem to have a bit less of that harshness when given more space (about 4ft behind the speakers now and an equal triangle of 9ft with next to no toe-in). The bass seems to be a bit anemic now, but I'm thinking maybe a good sub could fill in that? JL F110 maybe (or a pair)?

Keep the Thiels, Jim T and Richard V should have been brothers...few design principles they did not share...

consider adding a Vandersteen 3 sub which will not honk up your great time and phase correct Jim T design...

the suggestions for 5,5a thru Quattro all valid as well

no connection to seller but there is a set of 5 on auction now...

Since you like a lot of what your speakers are doing and given what you're looking for, I also think subs are well worth exploring.  Two subs is better than one, but two high-end subs new would cost about as much or more than your Thiels, which seems kinda silly to me.  Buying a couple used Vandersteen 2Wq subs might be a good idea since Vandy just came out with a new sub so there may be a good supply of the older model soon.  But another way to go would be to get a couple SB2000 subs from SVS.  They offer a totally risk-free, 45-day trial so you can see if the subs do what you're looking for.  They're only about $1400 for a pair, and they'll get you down to 19Hz.  If they work I'd invest $600 in a used DSpeaker anti-mode dual core processor to help really dial them in.  Anyway, best of luck in whatever you decide. 

I have to agree with soix on just about everything.  Here is where I differ:

1)  I believe the DSP-8033 would be more appropriate and less expensive.  

2)  I would skip the SVS subs.  A pair of Rythmik F12-300 subs can be had for the same price an are much more of a "tight" music sub.  Alternatively, a pair of HSU ULS-15s (Dual Drive) is the same price.  The regular Rythmik F12 is as good as any sub out there, at $1000 per sub.    The 2wq would be great, and as you note, they may start popping up left and right on the used market soon.  

3)  I would go and re-evaluate the room treatments and see if their placement and or additional would help.  

Guess this thread is taking a turn... With moving the speakers further out (further than I have ever had them in my 6 years of ownership), they do sound quite a bit better. There's no doubt I will need to add a subwoofer though. I have an older Epik Legend that I added in the chain and it's ok, but I can hear it once in a while, basically doesn't blend perfectly.

So for subwoofers, JL Audio (used), Rythmik (used or new) or other brand?

I think JL Audio, while good, is expensive for what you get.  If possible, two small subs are better than one large for your use, as it will help to minimize room modes.  There is a great deal of information available about the benefit of multiple subs, as well optimizing setup.  

Depending on your ability to place subwoofers, the Audio Kenesis Swarm may be a good option and in your price range.  

http://www.audiokinesis.com/the-swarm-subwoofer-system-1.html

audiojanregarding a subwoofer- look no further than REL.
Happy Listening!

Sunfire would be a close second to REL.  Happy Listening!

From what I've read I think the Audio Physics are somewhat similar with a great soundstage and some models should be available around $6000-$7000, cheaper if you go pre-used. I also like Focal but Focal Sopra are more expensive. I don't remember what the Marten Design speakers cost but they are also worth investigating.

http://www.audiophysic.de/index_e.html
http://www.ear-usa.com/marten-loudspeakers/

Audiojan:

My experience says Thiels are way more persnickety of feeding electronics than most.
very resolving, kind of like horns
I also have a sub, To add to the drive that Thiels are a little light on

My experience of going from a 200 watt class D amp to a Pass labs ( big current) was enlightening . The pass added another 2 woofers to the sound and drive vs ICE amp( against normal advice?)
Your note on " not the best recordings" as being shrill, follows my thoughts and ears.
I added great tubes in preamp and that solved my "shrillness" issues.
SS amp with tube preamp to " tune the sound" worked for Thiels

Now, I've switched speakers and am working on the " shrillness" ,again, but to a very small part when loudness is high.
especially when you prefer very resolving speakers

I think older " crap" rock recordings are a tough nut to crack and I am trying a DAC as final tuning for the shrill/ edge
You have the PS Directstream that I was surching for, but evidently is not the solution?
Maybe Chord?

Anyway, That damn system synergy thing!!    Lol

Jeff

There is a Thiel Smartsub SS3 for sale on this site.  Can’t believe you would find anything better to get the CS2.4 rocking

@frozentundra, I've used ML331's, Krell KAV250's and a few other amps in years past and the Bel Canto did something special that the others simply couldn't, put the musicians right in the room with me. I'm not convinced it's the amp that's the issue (although I'm going to borrow a few from friends and test the theory).

The PS DirectStream DAC is very neutral and if anything tips towards the warmer side. I'm also using it to direct the amps directly (no preamp).

The thing is that I had exactly the same system setup in our old home and the synergy was most definitely there. A different room means that it gets loaded slightly differently (and I am working with adding and subtracting as well as moving acoustic panels and diffusers to tame the room).

Moving the Thiel's out further in the room really made a big difference, but the bass is MIA.

@sandydennis11, The SS3 would be awesome, but you need the external crossover for it. Finding a PX02 set up for the 2.4's is darn near impossible. Otherwise, I agree, that sub would be close to idea.

Audiojan;

I noticed the Krell amp
They are noted for bass!

I also used Dirac Live for sub integrate
It worked like a charm for sub integration, if you are still light on oomph.
you can play with all the settings and it’s very impressive to tailor the bass
You can try for 30 days as trial with Amarra!

As for your DirectStream, I hear nothing but good & was looking to try 

I found an added Tube with CJ pre really toned down poor recording shrillness

Extra room bounce can & does add to high end nasties.
Moving Speakers should help Or room adjustments like you are doing for bass & soundstage ( further in room less bass is what I found)

Thiel s and good sub ( or room dsp) should make a good difference & should integrate well

ps: I just upgraded to a Revel Ultima2 Studio ( extra woofer drivers recalled helped low end)
I do not think there is substitute for more surface area of drivers to low end 

jeff

Audiojan, There is a S1 integrator on eBay. That should work the same as a PX02. Funny, my PX05 is set for the 2.4 as 2 of the channels. My PX05 is set for the CS3.7’s which are my fronts.

audiojan....  Actually the integrator is for sale on highperformance site

Thanks @sandydennis11 really appreciate it. I bought it. Figured that even if I don't find the Thiel subwoofer I want right now, it will make it easier when I do, plus I can use it already with my other subwoofer (and allowing me to roll off the CS2.4, making them easier on the amps).

The 3.7’s I have are amazing. Sonically pure. 

@woots, I assume they’re not for sale though... :-)

Well, I haven’t moved from the 2.4 but does the 1.5 count? Probably not. But I did love those little speakers and I did covet the 2.4’s, still do actually. Anyway moved to low power set and single driver and have now gone push pull and supplemented with a super tweet. By large achieving my goals but missing something about those Thiels imaging and incisiveness

To my experience, Thiel speakers correctly reproduce the sound as it was recorded given that you have other adequate audio equipment. CS2.4 speakers do need a subwoofer, perhaps, this is what you are missing for enrich your soundstage. I suggest keep your CS2.4s (barely you will find something comparable for 2-5K, besides, keep in mind that Thiel speakers are no more produced).

I just replaced CS-7’s with Audio Nirvana Classic 15 ALNICOs ($1199/pr). These are full range drivers, you won’t believe how good music sounds without crossovers. You’ll have to find your own cabinet maker, but David will give you multiple cabinet plans to pick from. Having had Thiels, I doubt that you’ll have any issues with bright gear, Thiels don’t tolerate bright. Vandersteens would be a step down, not up, IME. Toss a towel over your Thiels, and you’ll have a pair of Vandersteens!

I owned 2.4's shortly after they were introduced.  Ran them w/all the "right stuff", Pass Labs X250 & X pre, great CDP, all Cardas Golden cabling, etc.  They were great on well recorded material but hard to listen to on most recordings.   After a couple years I sold them and bought Coincident Partial Eclipse II's and never looked back - that was over ten years ago.  The Coincidents are just fantastic and enabled me to get into moderately powered tube amps.  Unfortunately Izzy isn't building Partial Eclipses any more...

greetings,   i went from a set of 2.4's to a set of 2.7's and that was a great  move.  agree about adding a sub and I like the REL that i have.  good luck.
PS:  my 2.7's and now 3.7's do great with the PS Audio BHK 250 amp

The PSA BHK250 is high on the list of amps to try. They're expensive though... Or I might just take a hammer to the piggy bank and spring for the BHK300's right away... there's something very special about mono blocks.

I was toying with the idea of hunting down a pair of CS3.7's, but they're darn near impossible to find.

I recently made the same change you are contemplating.  I auditioned many speakers through shows, dealer visits and visiting local club members Systems.  Ultimately I purchased Spendor D9s.  Some would claim it quite a change (not in many ways), but I am loving them and they supply what over the past many years I couldn’t coax from the Thiels with many changes of equipment, room treatments, and even moving to a different home/room.  

If you like what Thiels have to offer it'll be tough to find it anywhere else. I have both 7.2's and 3.6's and the only thing I'd ever think about replacing them with are Tidal Contriva G2's or Agoria's. They're that good. I like and respect lots of other speakers and speaker designers but for what I need and like, nothing beats Thiel except Tidal.

I've had issues in the past when I only had the 3.6's and what I've found is 90% of success with Thiel's are getting the amplification right. You get the muscle right, and the rest is just season to taste.

I have both 7.2's and 3.6's and the only thing I'd ever think about replacing them with are Tidal Contriva G2's or Agoria's. They're that good.

Thats a big statement 3090 and I agree, I have spent some time with Tidals.  I have 3.6 (my favorite) and CS6.  Mcintosh 501’s drive them good, Classe CA200 drives them better.  

I ventured off track a few years ago with Egglestons Andra II’s because I admired them years ago but I could never keep the Thiels out of the system.  Hard to switch speakers when you are so accustomed to the sound and performance.

Pops,

I agree. I power my 7.2 's with a pair of Mac MC7300's in mono parallel. Music pours out them. The 3.6's are in my theater. They're getting the step-child treatment until I get a proper amp. 

Keep the Thiels.  You'll miss them if you don't.

As the owner of six Thiel speakers, I will add my vote for keeping the Thiels and adding a sub.  Just make sure that you add one that 1) has lots of options as to phase and crossover frequency, and 2) is "quick and tight" to match the Thiels.  Flat to 32hz is just fine for music.

@harrylavo, I think that's exactly what I'm going to do. I listened to a few other speakers during last week (some much more expensive than the Thiel's) and I was underwhelmed, just didn't have that "window into music" quality.

The goal is to find a Thiel subwoofer (or a pair would be ideal, but I'll settle for one for now). I already have the Integrator.

Been there done that. I’ve had three pair of 2.4’s, as I always go back. Going up the line is not the answer,either. Rocky Mountain Audiofest is coming up in October, could hear a multitude of speakers there. You have a great system. Good luck!