Forget about having the audio itch, upgraditis, or whatever you want to call it - anyone besides myself ever feel like the Wilt Chamberlain of Audio gear? My brother always said that I change audio gear more than I change my underwear, but in the last 2 years, the addiction has gotten worse I think. My name is Lou and I’m an audio whore, and I don’t mind it one bit :)
It's great that you are comfortable with your impulse to try new systems! Often this is presented as some kind of issue, a problem. Not at all! I have said that it's not like these are people with feelings that we are dismissing; they are electronics without sensibility, and we can obtain or dismiss them at our pleasure. It is one reason that I do not subscribe to nostalgia audio, as it misses out on all the newer, and imo better developments.
There is nothing wrong with loving the gear as much as the music itself. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Observe how many glom onto media, as though that is a badge of honor - I call them Mediaphiles, as they spend prodigious amounts of time and money collecting and curating their collection. Great! Good for them if that is their thing.
About ten years ago I accepted the fact that I enjoy variety of experience as much as anything in this hobby. So, I began to ensure I would have it. The past decade has been delightful and so much more rewarding than when I chased "The One," the mythical one speaker/system that could satisfy in every respect.
Also, I very much enjoy advancing systems, and never tire of seeing improvement in an already good sounding rig. The multi-faceted nuances of the experience are amazing, how many thousands of expressions of well known recorded music exist! It's like an astronomer gazing into the universe; always something beautiful and unexpected to experience!
To those who think there is something wrong with a love affair with the gear: Don't let anyone tell you that you are doing audio wrong! Have a great time with the electronics, and play the game as you wish! The only caveat is if it skews your personal budget so as to be in conflict with priorities; then you need a moderating influence.
There's a niche for everyone in this hobby. I keep my equipment for a long time and consider myself to be a music lover first and an equipment changer a very distant last. However, in addition to the vast record and CD collection (the music), I'm a devout tweaker. I just can't seem to leave things alone.
Yes Doug, it is called a wife and children. Like you nostalgia audio makes me scratch my head. There are very few instances where older equipment is "better." I can certainly understand if one is building a system on a budget and older used equipment fits the bill at a reasonable price but then some of this equipment now costs more than new.
I know very few audiophiles who are one trick ponies. My best audiophile friend is into cars, cycling all over the world and skiing. On top of all this I am a rather accomplished woodworker, the product of a restless mind. I can not just hang out. Beaches and cruise ships are death traps.
Hi Lou, I had very much the same problem years ago. Most of my friends had the same problem. Then you climb into the realm where equipment starts costing serious money on top of family responsibilities and there is a natural tendency to slow down....until the kids are gone:-) Still, over the years you discover a certain sound you want to hear usually with speakers and once you are there with the best speaker of the type you like, unless there is a huge advance somewhere (very rare with speakers as there has not been any significant new tech in decades) you tend to stay where you are. But, there is all the associated equipment most of it having a distinct life span. I am at the point now were significant equipment upgrades cost five figures and up and the law of diminishing returns sets in. There is also new tech that crops up on occasion and I tend to be an early adapter. A good example is room control. Anyway, my next upgrade is going to be a new projector. The newer laser projectors are a big step forward. The bulbs last 20,000 hours and they are twice as bright. Prices have come down into the almost reasonable range. Nothing like a rock video on a great system! Keep whoring away but do take time to smell the roses. I hate that saying;-)
lou -- bro you are dating yourself... need to say ’tacko fall of high end audio’ 🤣
i prefer to think of myself as a high end escort of audio more than a hooker or a ’ho - i am only on the uptown street corners -- where tube amps hang out... 🤣🤣
but when times are tough i will stroll downtown and do a class d amp or two... 🤣🤣🤣
I also thought this was about tall gear and nice to hear the name Wilt Chamberlain what a legend. I say nothing wrong with flipping gear constantly if it makes you happy and you can afford it. There are crazier and more expensive hobbies to be sure. @mijostyn I beg to differ sometimes newer is better sometimes it's not. Sitting here listening to a sublime sounding 20 year old preamp/amp combo.
Until last year, I was on the hunt for big, beefy, 200 watt high current amps. I also tried a lot of pre/pro gear from Krell, Meridian, Parasound and Proceed. Finally Settled on class D amps and a nice Marantz pre/pro. Ain't life fun.
Jay (OP) makes most people who think they run a lot of gear in and out of their systems look like wannabes. I could not even imagine unpacking all the gear he has tried.
Maybe I'm the audio anti-whore. After owning (and selling) other speaker systems over a 12 year period, I purchased a pair of ADS 1230s in September 1983 and have never looked back. Well, not exactly true, because I've auditioned other speakers since then. However, none have wowed me enough to part with my 1230s. They just seem to do everything right, from rock, to Bach to Coltrane. I drive them with a Quad 405 amp which I bought new in January 1978 when I owned a pair of Quad 57s.
There is nothing wrong with loving the gear as much as the music itself. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
Hear hear! I'm agnostic about which is more important to me, but the amount of people who weighed in with the idea that the music is obviously "ultimate" was interesting. And some were downright, um, intense, that it was "obvious" that gear was subordinate. There's no reason for the gear without the music, silly -- they said.
There is a difference between constantly seeking the new because one has no sense of what they're doing -- fumbling around, wasting money, learning nothing -- and what you describe, which is the quest for new experiences and knowledge.
The "big dipper" was like no other in one year he averaged 50pts.,another averaged over 20 rebounds, and one year he even leads the league in assist no one not MJ,not Kareem nor Kobe, or James dominated like Wilt he could do anything he wanted on the court. Sadly his supporting cast in Philly was not up to snuff. Russell was not as good no way no how but won 11 championships because he had the other parts that matched his game and they made beautiful music together. Somewhere in the above is a core belief of audiophiles about synergistic interactions.
You can teach your ears to hear better by listening critically, to both live and recorded music. A mindful process becomes matching the gear you experience with what your increasingly educated ears are telling you. I think the more you learn and move up the fewer new gear experiences you will need, and the more you will enjoy them. After a few years of doing this, now when I go to audio shows I can usually determine if it's worth it to stay in a room or not within two minutes--sometimes it's the gear and sometimes it's the room, but it works out to the same choice about whether to stay or leave. And the best always means coming back later to listen again. If you continue to try out dozens of different audio equipment over many years you aren't listening in a productive way. But if you are just having fun instead of expanding your audio understanding, then what the hell, why not do it?
While I admire those who sustain long, loving relationships with their stereo, I tend to develop a wandering eye. I do keep some things around a good long while but that seems to be the exception to the rule. Only the size of my bank account and the patience of my wife keep me in check...to some degree.
Scott 22's main point rings true, you are better off with synergy between components or players.
But I could not resist this, even though as a kid I kind of liked Wilt, in his later career L.A. Lakers days.
Bill Russell also was on two USF NCAA championship teams, and an Olympic Gold medal winning team, bringing his total ring count to 14.
Wilt's Kansas team lost to North Carolina in the title game, late '50s,, when the Tarheels went into a stall, not uncommon in those days.
Wilt's numbers were otherworldly during the regular season, but head to head, in 142 games against Russell, his scoring tended to be a lot lower. Russell was a terrific shot blocker and defender, maybe the best of his time. I think one year, he was a "player/coach."
OK, enough with the sports talk. Who knew this was a basketball forum?
I was hit by the bug almost 40 years ago now and never did stop looking for that elusive sound and then the magic happened and once i heard the top vintage sound i never looked back but i can tell you that then you start buying many examples of that too because you will want the many different sounds that top models had to offer. The funny thing is is that any one of the top models will make a new design sound like a pale imitation of music on any basis especially if you want to hear what is on a truly great recording.
Thank you all for weighing in here; I got a really good laugh reading your comments. :)
To expand on my listening preferences, I’m a tube guy at heart but I think SS, and in particular, British shoe box sized integrated amps can be so cool that I just love trying things out. For me, it’s like trying different flavors of ice cream; but whenever I have solid state gear it never seems to stay around that long. When I have tube gear, it just sounds right, and I have much less tendency to make changes. I prefer analog tuners but somehow always seem to buy digital tuner‘s every now and then, because they are super cool looking, but like SS gear, they never satisfy me in the long run.
I am also a bang for the buck kind of person. I don’t believe you need to spend lots on this hobby if you know what you were doing.
In my next entry, hopefully tomorrow, I’ll respond specifically to the comments you’ve all made. Thank you all for participating.
The first step is admitting you have the addiction!
It is one reason that I do not subscribe to nostalgia audio, as it misses out on all the newer, and imo better developments.
Yeah, but that gets expensive too!
It’s fun being an audio Hooker.
I prefer to think of myself as a high end escort of audio more than a hooker or a ’ho
You guys are cracking me up!
If it wasn’t for you guys and gals here on Agon constantly revolving, upgrading, restoring and bringing your thoughts and experiences here with and about gear, I would have never learned so much as I have in these few short years.
I came here as a home theater head and there is nothing wrong with that but well let me just say I’m finally in the process of buying myself a true piece of audio gear. A Clayton S40 amplifier with the upgrade package of 50 watts of pure class A, albeit used, to save some coin. And I couldn’t have done it without you guys sharing and taking the time to teach.
And it is damn refreshing too that this thread has none of the infighting that sometimes goes on here, just great grown folks humor! Great thread Lou!
Hey Lou, I bet you never thought you'd be selling audio gear on the inter either? I guess that makes us audio ho's too!
I’m just one year into this hobby, and that is what I consider it, for me. I am looking at it as, “What is missing in my life that I am trying to find by ‘getting lost in the music’?” I had just lost a love relationship and was looking to find something pleasing to focus on. I looked at my 30+ year old stereo system and, having read of the delights awaiting in high-end audio, I thought that was the ticket.
While I enjoy reading of the exploits of audiophiles, I know that nothing replaces something important that was lost. I look at it like the guys that are really into cars, and they get into the parts swapping and the tweaks and the new paint or interior, and I just want a reliable car that is comfortable, has a decent stereo and reliably gets me where I want to go. That’s it.
With audio, I have a bit of craving — would like to explore the vaunted “tube sound”, but I know that a big limitation is my listening space and what I can do with it. I’m older and done with moving, so it is what it is. Now, I make my peace within what I can do, that it fit in my budget, and that I explore and enjoy other things worth enjoying. And read of the exploits here who “go down the rabbit hole” more than I ever will.
Look you guys are getting the metaphor wrong. You are not sluts and you are not whores. You are Johns. You remain the same while the gear changes. You are the customer; you are the john.
** condosound - I’m just having fun with it, trying out different combos & enjoying the process, not that I need to try out different things. As I mentioned above, tube gear is my preference and when I have it, I’m generally a lot more satisfied not to make changes. But I’m always window shopping (on eBay, CL & USAM) to see what’s around. I really like rare stuff and for sure, part of the experience is aesthetic as well.
** cincinnatipete - I love the 4 corners stall and a team with lesser talent taking over the tempo of the game, like Petey Carill’s Princeton Tigers always did @ Jadwyn Gym. Yes, I’m a student of the game, even had a little bit of it back in the day as well. My big brother (RIP) played overseas professionally for 15 years as well, so kinda in the blood.
I’m in Philly and the heyday of the Big 5 at the Penn Palestra is still the Mecca of college basketball IMHO. There’s nothing like going to a game there and back then, it was amazing! They gave out 1000’s of cowbells and the place was loud as could be. Ref’s Time out after the first basket by each team as each team threw tons of streamers onto the court... they wrapped them up and reused them for the 1st basket in the 2nd half too. Several years ago, I went to the Palestra to see a game. No streamers! I asked my friend, a Penn alum, what happened to the streamers. Not allowed anymore :(. The good ole days....
I’ll have to Google who was on the Tarheels back then who beat Wilt’s Kansas team.
Ok, back to audio talk...
** hilde45 - I never got big into the room, in terms of dampers and the expensive room treatments, such that, when you see pictures of it being overdone in a room, you say to yourself, oh that guy is definitely not married, nor is he getting laid with a room like that... however, the importance of the listening room cannot be overstated enough and is paramount to the experience.
** chorus - exactly !!! ** speakermaster - I’m feeling like a young Qui Chain Kane in the presence of your words, specifically your last sentence. If only, you’d call me Grasshopper :)
** tyray- YOU GO MF’er!!!!!! Clayton S40!!! Nothing like starting your audio journey right at the top! That’s terrific! Tells us what else you got goin’ on with the Clayton’s please. That’s like you’re starting off with Marilyn Monroe, Jayne Mansfield, Elizabeth Taylor. Way to go!!!
** bob540 - tell us your budget, your room size, what speakers you have, the type music you listen to mostly and how loud you listen and I can ale some good tube amp suggestions for you. I sold this stuff @ retail many years ago and this knowledge is how we crafted the right system to peoples needs and desires
** mrklas - Ha! Shoot, I’m not getting paid for my services either :)
** ozzy62 - over the past 37 years, I’ve had 48 different amp combinations, 43 different speakers, 30 different tuners, and 10 different turntables.
Comparatively:
Wilt Chamberlain: 20,000 women over 40 years = 14,600 days 20,000 / 14,600 = 1.37 woman per day for 40 years
Ok, so I’m exaggerating just a wee bit. My audio career is more like January & February of 1972 for Wilt. Whose to say that after a game, he didn’t have a harem of a dozen women visit his hotel room, half of them just curious to see just how large he really was. He was an incredible all around athlete, track star and professional volley ball player as well
@lou_setriodes LOL! Yes, you can call yourself whatever you like. But, as your therapist might say, it’s very "interesting" that you’ve decided to call yourself the submissive in a relationship where you’re clearly reveling in dominance. The "master-slave dialectic" has applications in audio, after all.
i like the idea myself butt also the hit when you resell it is a low blow. ill use the word Demo next time i learn for the honest audio salesmen selling used audio
Aw snap! The authorities cancelled my earlier posting where I went in chronological order replying to the first 18 responses. In a subsequent posting, I’ll try to recreate and sanitize the earlier response that got flagged.
Meanwhile:
** Twoch - I’ve been pretty lucky when it comes time to resale. At worst, if you can break even, then it’s a good outcome. You’ve listened to the gear for however long you kept it and came out even. Many times I have made $$$ on audio purchases since I bought them right. It can be a gamble though. The best time in this hobby historically is in the winter when we are normally coupes up inside. In the summer months, no one wants to be couped up inside listening, thus demand for it falls off and better deals can be had if you are buying because not as many people are looking.
Tells us what else you got goin’ on with the Clayton’s please. That’s like you’re starting off with
All together almost decades of living with my old and oxidized Scott and Pioneer receivers, some KLH and infiniti rotted out speakers and other iterations. Not to mention the almost 100 buys and sells on ebay, usaudiomart and craiglist just learning and trying to get it right. I’m trying to keep it simple. No dac and dac transport player yet, just my minty Pioneer PL-630 turntable for the front end.
All my interconnects and speaker wire use Duelund wire with KLE Innovations connectors that I plan upgrading to the Schroeder method. And yes, the Schroeder method is a technique by our very own Douglas Schroeder.
The phono preamp I’m gonna stick with my Budgie Parks Audio with (2) Kevin Deal’s of Upscale Audio Telefunken E88CC/6922 Platinum Grade, Cryoed, matched pair of NOS Telefunken vacuum tubes for now for budget reasons.
And just in case there any home theater heads here I’m selling all my Miller and Kreisel complement of monitors and surrounds here.
Ok, it’s nearly a year later and my life has taken about the most drastic 180 ever!
Six months ago, I moved overseas to Israel and about 2.5 months ago, my audio gear arrived. I tried to assemble the perfect desert island system of a small system with options (2 integrated amps & 2 pairs of speakers). Did away with separates for an integrated amp and wanted something small and always loved the looks of those shoe box sized British integrateds.
I also lugged over all of my vinyl, cassettes, and cds yet also have a Bluesound node 2i. I’m now selling off one of the systems and planning to live with less.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
