The $27,900 disappointment? Wilson Audio Watt Puppy 8 issues.

fyi, Here is cool pic.  I have the new James Gang SACD cranked on the song "Bomber" as high as my ears can stand it.  You can see the meter on the C2300.  BTW, that remastered SACD sounds like it was recorded yesterday.  it is outstanding, and the bass is fantastic.   There is not a ripple or even the slightest movement in that glass of water.  W/P 8 with GAIA I footer on a hardwood floor on top of a cement foundation.  I feel lots of punch with those 2 Mc275s. 

If you like the sounds of the Wilson's, that is the prime value. The Wilson's I have heard sounded not very good to me, when listening in a demo or showroom. But in the home where they are set up somewhat decently, they are a hard to beat speaker. Excellent sound. And that is where it really matters, in your listening space.

As I mentioned in my previous post, I own the Watt Puppy 8s, which I bought used.  I listened to them before I bought them and I was impressed with the sound.  I like bass, imaging, and clean highs, and I believe the W/P 8s deliver that.  The diffraction pad foam had deteriorated, so, I contacted Wilson and bought a new set, which seems to be some kind of wool type material.  I wonder why GR research did not do the same thing.  I mean why not try the updated perfect fitting diffraction pads from Wilson before making your own?  I also bought new resistors from Wilson and replaced them.   There is something nice to be said about a company that supports replacement parts for their speakers from 2011.  It is also something I really like about McIntosh.  Here is a pic of my W/P with the new perfect fitting diffraction pads from Wilson. 

@inthesticks I think you are correct, I don’t recall the Wilson’s age being mentioned in his 1st video either.

Maybe he mentioned it in his follow-up video, but it was so boring I stopped watching it after a few minutes.

My first post - I just joined but I’ve been a reader of this forum.

I have Wilson Sabrina X’s with 2024 Watt Puppys ordered.

My opinion of this video and his methods of measuring speaker performance aside,

my one comment is actually about the title and premise of the video.

”$27,900 disappointment…”

First off, anyone who spent $27K on a 20 year old pair of Watt Puppys probably deserves to have issues…  Maybe I didnt catch it, but did he ever mention that these speakers were released in 2006 (and discontinued in 2011)?

I ask because in the beginning of the video when discussing the Focal, he made specific mention that he used the same part “way, way back in the late 90’s” in their first speaker.  So he is dating components, but conveniently seemed to leave out the date of the model he was working on.

We can argue whether or not that was intentional, but for anyone that doesnt know the Wilson line well, they’ll conveniently conclude that this speaker isnt old and costs close to $28k.  This is evidenced by many of the comments based on misinformation (or maybe, lack of information.)

Maybe he did mention the age and I missed it - but if he left that out then he did Wilson a disservice, and its a convenient way to throw shade without actually spelling it out  

Thanks hjdca!

Classy response...

Here you go:

As has been mentioned the WP8 is an old model.  I hope Jay can host a discussion with Wilson to get their comments, etc.   Apparently Wilson did respond on Facebook.  If someone has access to FB can you please post their comments here?

Thanks!

Hello, I have Wilson Watt Puppy 8 powered by 2 McIntosh MC275s monoblocked with a McIntosh c2300 preamp. I think they sound fantastic. The bass is the best I have heard in my price range for tower speakers, but, I bought them used. Top end is clean and sweet. The whole 2 ohm issue seems overblown to me and I do not perceive the sound changing when I stand up. Before the Watt/Puppy 8, I ran ML Electrostats with a Sub with the same equipment except an extra SS amp for the sub. Nice setup, but, it does not compare to the W/P 8, and the sound of the MLs did change when I stood up. Overall, the W/P 8 sound, punch, & air movement just work well together. I like the bass coming out of the W/P 8 better than running a separate sub... Maybe the idea with the W/P 8 was to create a smallish tower that did not need a sub ? without bi-amping and all that complexity.... Is that worth a 2 ohm dip on a specific frequency ? Definitely worth a big listen before judging. Here is a pic of my system:

PS. Anybody that has heard my W/P 8 says they sound glorious, but, they are not audiophiles, so, it is possible that they do not have the right trained ears. 

@mclinnguy Just search YouTube for OCD Mikey.  Enjoy.

@texbychoice Link? 

Looks-wise, honestly, I would welcome Vivids in my home. Wilsons, never.

Different, weird, I can rationalize and even grow to love. Offensively ugly, I can't. Wilson designers actually went to great lengths to make those speakers painful to look at. The sculpted sides look like those fiberglass kit cars they made in the 70s.

Only Wilson Audio could make $1M speakers look cheap.

But Vivids? Any time. They are said to sound fantastic, too.

@devinplombier 

10 pairs of WAMMs were sold in the ‘80s,  if I am recalling Dave correctly. And most of those in the VERY early ‘80s. 

In the right room... with the right tastes. A friend of mine just bought a pair of Vivid Audio G3 S2's. Well... a different aesthetic from what I would go for. But he says they sound fantastic.

@ghdprentice I don't doubt it. I would welcome the opportunity to audition them..

What I don't get is why a person would tolerate these things in the beauty (hopefully) of their homes, candy apple paint job and all

@devinplombier

I have heard a predecessor. Absolutely the most incredible experience I have had in high end audio. Unbelievable holographic sound scape. If you have the money and like that kind of sound... simply amazing. 

https://www.soundroom.ca/products/wamm

If a pac-man machine copulated with a traffic light

Has any person ever bought a pair of these horrors, or are they just decoys meant to make the $500K ones look sensible?

@glennewdick 

The WATTS are 40 years old. They came out in 1984.

I owned WATTS back in 1986 and through until Series 4. And then Puppies when they came out in 1988. I'm not sure what is "wrong" about them sonically, if one has heard them - and owned them - at length.

What's the "nightmare" aspect of the speakers? I must have missed it. 

Oh and I see Merlin mentioned. Judd from Joule modified his personal Merlin speakers ever so slightly. I believe to tame the tweeter a bit. Compare the retail prices on the Wilsons vs the Merlins. I think it fair to expect less compromises (design flaws) with the Merlins.

Thanks for making the point of the Wilson detractors. It isnt about what is good for the salesman. 

The speakers seem to be too much of a nightmare to deal with. Is Wilson in decline?

Nope. They are doing just fine. Imagine how happy the salesman is when he sells a pair of these: 

https://www.soundroom.ca/products/wamm

@jim2 

We know, they don't.

Can you imagine any of the haters faces if they were hearing the NX-Tremes for the first time? 🤣

The speakers seem to be too much of a nightmare to deal with. Is Wilson in decline?

@vthokie83 ​​@devinplombier , @jim2 ,

Gentlemen, thank you all for setting me on the path to righteousness.

I shall clarify my position;

I think Danny is intelligent, extremely knowledgeable in his craft, and I have enjoyed more than a few of his videos. His speakers, though I’ve not heard them, are praised for the quality to price ratio. At no time ever have I insulted his craft, his honesty, or his integrity and I think it unfair to be corralled in with those here who have. This was not my intention. I was simply expressing my gratitude that he finally stopped going to his sister’s stylist. So @jim2 , if you can’t distinguish my silly joke from the haters, I suggest you call Danny and see if he can wire you up a sense of humor. Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m off to make fun of Rick Beato’s sideburns.

thecarpathian

Recently there was a thread about some abysmally stupid statement YouTuber Rick Beato made in an effort to ingratiate himself with his geriatric audience. A lively discussion ensued, and not once did I mention his terrible sideburns. You can do it man!!

thecarpathian

The occasional quip is just fine. On this particular thread, I think that this was a thread with a very interesting subject....and it deteriorated into too much off topic, and lost the value that it should have had

"Others have made some fairly nasty comments about Danny, resorting to talking about his hair."

Why is it I poke a little harmless fun at his choice of hairstyles and I’m singled out as the poster boy for nastiness?? I’d write more concerning this travesty but I’m late for my mullet trimming appointment...

Yes indeed @sns ​​​​@jim2  +++

@jim2 ++   As previously mentioned I own diy modified Merlin VSM, Danny on right track with these as well.

At present another thread here in regard to people  offering 'expert' advice/knowledge of things they have no direct experience with. The 'experts' here are those who've availed themselves of Danny's services, the rest is conjecture or worse.

Seems like audio is a religion for some, criticize some equipment they own or is it believe in and you'll be called a heretic or worse.

toddalin

294 posts

01-25-2025 at 02:10pm

The problem as I see it is that you can’t really compare the changes he makes because you can’t A/B them in real time with the before version.

And, anyone who spends a bunch of $$$ for a modification will have a bias toward it just because they did.

Well... unless you are me... the guy who sent Danny the Wilson Audio Duette speakers, which have their own external "Novel" crossover and a direct comparison can be made. You never know... you may see more about that someday.

Others have made some fairly nasty comments about Danny, resorting to talking about his hair. It’s laughable... because I know every single one of you have:

1) Never heard Danny’s speakers such that it would make you would spew the bile you are.

2) Never dealt with Danny Richie.

Danny is a stand up guy. I’ve sent him 3 pairs of speakers, including with Wilson Audio Duette and Merlin Music VSM. (Heresy!) I also think Danny would help himself by not giving birdseed on the ground for others by slagging so hard on bad designs, even if they are bad.

People want the Truth... unless you are talking about THEIR speaker / brand.

Maybe he should say... "This needs to be better" and that will be code for "This is junk".

The gnashing of teeth about speakers and how PERSONALLY some take it... it’s always gonna be a thing, I guess.

I have been in the room and watched Danny do this upgrade process. I watched him do the upgrade for the Merlin VSM.

Those of you who think you know and are talking about Danny’s hair or whatever...

Here’s the thing... I know that you don’t know what you’re talking about... and I’m chuckling at your words. You KNOW, I know you don’t know.

Just stop... you’re embarrassing yourselves and you are smarter people than that.

Oh, and for the "Wilson Owners" (remember, I am one) looking down your nose at all of this, thinking Danny it just scraping up crumbs and YOUR stuff is actually beyond reproach.

This is not a "price" thing... this is a "Performance" thing with GR Research / Danny.

"Wilson Owners" don’t buy GR Research stuff? You mean, "People who can afford to buy expensive things would not buy GR Research speakers." Really?

Well, I did...and I’ve also bought:

• Ayre Acoustics KX-R Twenty Preamp
• Ayre Acoustics MX-R Twenty monoblocks
• Ayre Acoustics QX-5 Twenty Digital Hub
• On Monday, an order for Cardas Clear Reflection wire is going in.

Does that qualify as snob level gear... but I’m also doing "DIY"? Why?

It’s because many of you are getting PUNK’D by speaker companies with flowery prose, special names for stuff they use to make boxes for speakers, who don’t share measurements, and pot their crossovers so you can’t even see what you are buying.

Who’s conning who, exactly?

One thing is for sure... ignorance and a checkbook can buy Bliss...

I’ve been there, I’ve heard it, I’ve seen it...

I have found "It"... and many of you are still looking for "It".

Good Luck, the answer is right in front of you.

@toddalin +1 this also applies to people who use measurements to justify their audio experience.

The problem as I see it is that you can’t really compare the changes he makes because you can’t A/B them in real time with the before version.

And, anyone who spends a bunch of $$$ for a modification will have a bias toward it just because they did.

Danny has measured and modified many  Klipsch Heritage. I have Khorns, agree with the issues he brings up in his  Heritage videos. I couldn't have lived with these speakers in stock form, with many diy mods instituted over a number of years I addressed these issues and now have my dream loudspeaker. No doubt I went further than his mods, but his understanding of defects and solutions in regard to these speakers is correct.

No easy thing critiquing audiophile equipment, audiophiles don't like hearing their equipment choices being criticized.

I liked his points because he pointed out illogical design elements. That is, aspects which make no sense and cant be good. 

@ozzy62 , I disagree. Forming an opinion with measurements is foolish if you have no experience. Danny's has measured thousands of speakers. He knows what measurements translate into good sound. Obviously,  his idea of good sound could differ from yours, but my personal experience says his good sound meshes well with mine. 

It amazes me how people love bad measuring equipment.  I have listened to many highly regarded audio components and been left cold. If it measures well, I usually like the sound. Some folks like distortion, and that's OK. This hobby has enough variety to satisfy all. 

Is Danny a hero or a con man? See what you get for stating anything negative about a higher end audio product. And you all wonder why we don't see any negative reviews, best to stay on the safe side and at least give faint praise to everything. But then you say you don't trust all these positive reviews, which is it people!

EXTRA, EXTRA...READ ALL ABOU IT

Jay’s Audio Lab <---> Danny Richie Interview

Wilson VS Magico Speakers, Danner Hammer praises Magico...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebfP2ivnjM

Alon Magic Wolf appears to be the real winner in all of this....

All the defeated/slayed Wilson refugees are running off to Magico, hereafter.

Alon’s partying hard tonight, getting sloshed at the bar, cashing checks at the bank next door........Magico owners....let’s go dancin tonight...party party party party

Shedding light in dark places obviously disturbs the cockroaches.

Doesn’t he make his own speakers?

Maybe he should send a 20 yr old design to Wilson for them to measure and improve upon . If they can.

Danny should watch more Uncle Paul videos and learn ruthless hucksterism from a grand master

I think Danny could be a little more diplomatic and tell the positives about the speakers he is upgrading, obviously there aren't all negatives. He could praise the stuff that is done right and then go into what can be improved on.