Testing for Dirty Electrical Power

This is a great question and it would help obviate a lot of needless purchases.

Also interested. I bought the same device and when I posted about it on Audiocircle I was informed that they are worthless but seems like an objective way to measure dirty power. My old house was a 19 but my new house w/ a dedicated line is around 70 IIRC. I plan to buy a PSM 156 at some point to see how that does...

Try your phono stage, at high  volume, without playing records. If you dont hear  noise  from your speakers, turning other equipment or power circuits on/off, from mobile phones, etc -  maybe, don't worry, its not a big problem.

Wish it was so simple. I have several of these types of "testers".

The hidden enemy rides along with the AC or DC current delivery in so many forms that these items cannot detect.

ozzy

Audiophiles start nit picking before the foundations are right. EMI/RFI testing is fine, but we don't hear up there, and bigger AC issues may be lurking.

Start with a simple meter like this one on the output of your conditioner.  Make sure the LED lights on top light up correctly, and if so then watch the voltage over time, including neutral voltage. 

How much does it drop when your stereo is on or plays?  Morning much better than evening?

This will help you gauge whether you need a dedicated line or voltage regulator as a front end.  Also make sure you don't have other issues!

Jay73, the Shunyata site has a YouTube video where they use an Entech Powerline Noise Analyzer to sonically and numerically demonstrate what you are asking about. Watch the video. It explains itself. In part I purchased a Shunyata Hydra Denali unit, like the one they were testing with the Entech after watching this video, which seemingly demonstrably measured it’s effectiveness in reducing line noise. The Entach unit is found both used and new on Ebay and Amazon in the $25 to $79 range,

Mike

I have a. PS Audio Noise Harvester.   In my townhouse it blinks at a very fast frequency.  In my significant others home which is just around the block it would hardly ever blink.      I know I have dirt power and her power is relatively clean.    My PS Audio power strip does shut down if the voltage drops.

Ask someone who would actually know. Maybe an electrician or someone who works at your local power generating plant.

Very interesting vid from Denali. Perhaps the location of the test was on a business park where there may be more noise on the line.

Cut to the chase....What we all really want to know is in our home installation what is the volume level of the noise relative to the music signal we have?  -50dB?    -70dB?  -100dB?  Or what?  i.e is it more than the  noise generated by our amps and other equipment?  If it is, how much more?

It would be the rare exception to find power that isn't "dirty" in your outlet.  I live in a well developed area with supposedly robust power supply.  My power runs 4-5% THD.

And don't try to "filter" it. that does more harm than good.  The only fix is to rectify and invert.

Jerry

Did some research and people use these devices for the detection of ghosts too..could kill two birds with one stone. 

Hi all. I tried this just after Christmas. I purchased a EMI line tester. It turns out I have very clean power, on average 16 mVpp. After doing some research I purchased a AudioQuest Niagara 1200 Power Conditioner hoping I could get any noise to zero. My experience with the Niagara was that it made no EMI difference on the high power outlets and actually created EMI noise on the source component outlets. It seems like with power conditioners there’s a lot of claims made about their performance and not a lot of data to support the claims. 

@rlj i have 5 noise harvesters. Some bling rapidly others do not. It’s probably because whatever’s on the same circuit is making the noise. Fridges, dimmer lights, etc. I’m not sure if they actually work that well but I also have shunyata power conditioners. I guess I my have to invest in one of these detectors to see. 

Can’t you use an O/Scope to look for noise in the circuit 

you should be able to see the noise on the wave form 

@rfauto Wrote:

 My experience with the Niagara was that it made no EMI difference on the high power outlets and actually created EMI noise on the source component outlets. It seems like with power conditioners there’s a lot of claims made about their performance and not a lot of data to support the claims. 

I agree!

Mike

Thanks for all the positive feedback and suggestions.

I was initially afraid I was asking a dumb question but glad to see all the comments.

What started this in my mind was looking at video's on the Puritan PSM156 and all the rave reviews it seems to be getting.

I started to wonder if my Isotek is doing a good job already and if there is anyway I can verify how good a job it maybe doing besides just listening to the system.

And that's when I started looking for devices that could potentially provide me a before and after affect of my Isotek, I know it may not be that simple as there are many variables for each situation.

@skyscraper ,

Thanks for the video.  I’m going to get a Entach.  Who knows, I might be getting rid of my AR6. 😁

Curiousjim, please pardon the typo in my post above on the Entech (not Entach) device. Let us know how it works for you.

Mike

@skyscraper 

No worries,

It wasn’t currently available on Amazon, but I did just buy one from EBay.  I’ll let you all know my results when it arrives.

jay73

The Greenwave meter starts at 3,000 hz , since we want clean power at 60 hz it's missing a lot of interference .

I have 7 Green wave filters on the circuit that my stereo is plugged into but they only filter higher frequency interference , I also use 3 PS Audio Noise Harvesters on this circuit .  When I had 5 Noise Harvesters and 2 Greenwave filters the NHs would be blinking very rapidly when the heat pump was on but now with less NHs and  more GF they blink every couple of seconds . I placed on NH in the computer outlet and another with the fridge along with a GF .  I don't use any other filters other than everything in my house is plugged into a Tripp-Lite Ultra isobar .

I might try the hifi AC iPurifier  I've read it gets warm, so I'd probably only want it plugged into power when my system is powered on.

Please see this article at inCompliance Magazine for EMC professionals: 

It is good to avoid "instant reward" measurements that produce results that mean very little.  For example, converting EMI into audio signal would work only if the high-frequency signal has modulation within audible range.  Very short spikes (microsecond-long) may or may not get converted into audio.
Make sure that you have valid numeric results - not some ambiguous relative numbers, but absolute values in mV or dBuV.  If you are committed to accuracy and relevancy of measurements, it would make sense to invest into professional tools.  There are plenty of inexpensive oscilloscopes on the market with FFT which allow you measurements of both time-domain signals and spectrum as well. I use Migsig oscilloscope STO1000 series (https://www.micsig.com/product5/)  Hantek has reasonable oscilloscopes as well. 

To connect oscilloscope to live power and not blow your oscilloscope's input use EMI Adapter: 

There is a whole field in the industry on both measurements of EMI and its mitigation with the tools and methodology that is yet to filter to audio applications...

For me the best solution was to go with power regeneration.  Nothing like having a very clean AC going to your equipment.   It is like upgrading the power supply on all your components.  

Seems like the best audiophile power solution is to run on battery like the Stromtank. Unfortunately it’s currently out of my budget and I don’t have room. 
Power regeneration garnered mixed reviews, especially with PS Audio products.  
I followed MikeL balanced power suggestion and use an Equi-Tech.  Equi=Core also gets good reviews 

I agree with bmontani's comment on regeneration.  Someone whose opinion I have great respect for suggested this.  I bought a used Furman.  At first, I did not have any sonic improvement, though having an UPS is safer for the equipment.

Eventually, I took my volt meter to the unit, and found out that the batteries were worn out.  Replaced the batteries, and got one of the most significant improvements in sound quality.  My wife (perfect pitch, incredible ears, doesn't care about equipment at all so no equipment bias) commented that it was much better after readjusting equipment parameters.

Other than the osiliscope, I don't think you can get a complete picture from any of the other devices above.  Now, I'm going to suggest something I almost never suggest.  I wouldn't bother trying to measure your outlet.  From experience with sensitive scientific equipment, no unregenerated electric source is going to be anywhere close to ideal, so just using a regenerator is kind of a given.

Filtering won't work on its own since there is always line loss, and you are going to always have periods of low voltage.  Having a power company hold at a consistent 60 Hz is also asking too much of distributed electricity.  Some places will be better, some worse, but I can't imagine getting close to ideal anywhere.

@bmontani and @jmkrajnik, regarding Power Regeneration, you're referring to a device similar to what PS Audio sells, for example?

I just looked up that piece of equipment.  Yes, that would work.  Probably better if all the extra bells and whistles help.

The one I have is spec'd for 120 V +-5%, which would be 6 volts up or down.  The thing I think that really helps is the 60 Hz is +-1%.  Cycles/second is really critical for timed motorized equipment such as turntables and tape players, though it is best if everything is plugged into the unit.

There is also a real time display for voltage on the unit.  When I went to get the specs. out of the instruction manual, the line showed 120 V.  Usually, that indicator shows between 116 and 119 volts.  Per the specs, voltage regeneration would not occur until you hit 114 V.  That shows that my assumption about Hz is probably correct.

I just browsed the PS Audio manual.  It is rather sophisticated piece of equipment, and it has a virtual oscilloscope built in (a little bit of evidence that my assumption that only an oscilloscope would help with readings.) It has a built in degaussing function, which is helpful.  Though I have a manual unit from The Gryphon.  That cost me under $100, though I did buy it 30 years ago.

The PS Audio unit is a lot more sophisticated that what I have.  There were options to adjust the sine wave, which of course, would affect Hz (hertz is really sinewave/second).  Mine keeps it stable.  That one allows adjustments based on inputs for further optimization.

Since I've never seen (or heard) a PS Audio unit, I don't know if that extra sophistication would help.  Though having the oscilloscope and the degausser built in is nice.  I think it would be better, but how much?  No idea.

I have a P20.  It is an excellent power regenerator.  Very. Very low impedance.  It is like upgrading the power supplies of all of you components.  

So I bought the Entech Powerline Noise Analyzer and it came yesterday. It has a speaker and a LCD screen.  The instructions are simple. Plug it into an outlet and set the noise level to 100. Than plug it into your power conditioner. So the meter is plugged in and set @ 100, then I plug it into my audience AR6 power conditioner and the noise dropped dramatically, but not entirely. But the number only dropped from 100 to 90, not 0.09!

Hmmmmm

I bought an Entech noise analyzer and found it to be a waste.  Showed basically same results wherever it was plugged into.  Power conditioners, wall, wall with appliance running etc.  Sold it on ebay the next day