Synergistic Red Fuse ...
For those who are interested, agon member ozzy got a sample bottle of the Mad Scientist Graphene Contact Enhancer and is currently testing it. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/cerious-technologies-new-graphene-cables?page=23 |
I don't often enter audio forums anymore, but 83 pages arguing about fuses spurred me to comment. I observe a consistent and repeated process here where the thread begins with someone reporting on the efficacy of some product. The process goes something like this: Evidence presented: Listening test provides positive qualitative listening experience. Someone denies this could be true and provides theories as to why this it couldn't be so. Those that hear positive difference provide theories as to why it can be so. Result is conflict. In order to resolve conflict we need proof, therefore, we need to seek truth. The immediate problem at this point in discussion, prior to determining truth, is that evidence and theories combined are perceived as truth. In reality they are only beliefs, humans commonly conflate belief with truth. And so now you mostly hear believers arguing about truth ad nauseum, 83 pages and counting on this thread! Beliefs harden, being right takes the place of truth seeking. So, the question is, can we get past the belief arguments, can we accept that we don't yet know the truth? Or are we forever stuck in opposing beliefs because we conflate belief and truth? Now, getting to truth in audio and the listening experience. Wow, that takes many mountain ranges to climb! The truth of qualitative judgements is about so much more than just equipment and component parts. The unique qualities of individual humans enter into the picture. The complexity of all these associations boggles the mind. Ultimately, I've come to greatly doubt that my experience and/or qualitative judgements can transcend my subjectivity. My audio system and my own human qualities make me totally unique. I don't know that I can give any assurances that what I hear is what you will hear. Finally, I admit to being a believer, I don't know the truth about how or why equipment and all it's component parts sound different. I would just say I am a believer with an open mind. I hear the differences in almost everything I've ever placed into my many audio systems over the years. I've changed out component parts so many times over the years, parts like Duelund capacitors, Texas Components TX2575 resistors, Dexa discrete op amps and regulators deserve special mention. And yes, I do hear differences in power cords, IC's, speaker wire, AC power cleansers, room treatments, etcetera, and yes, I even hear differences in fuses! And so this fuse thing seems very deja vu to me. I'm old enough to remember Stereo Review, which promoted an objectivist worldview, they assumed one could know all important measure parameters, and these measurements were responsible for the small qualitative differences in sound quality. Solid state measured relatively well and was assumed to be superior to tube equipment. This was a common belief at that time, nearly everyone had SS equipment, tube equipment manufacturers were nearly nonexistent, its amazing to think that Stereo Review very nearly killed off tubes (group think anyone). Well, I was young, I bought into it, and then I heard my first tube amplifier in a nice setup, first time I heard an illusion of real performers from an audio system. The measurables didn't correlate with Stereo Review dogma, this experience instantly killed that worldview for me. And about that time I started reading Stereophile, wow, I remember the letters and all the arguments from the objectivists, very contentious times. And I also remember these same objectivist arguments about interconnects, power cords, AC cleansers. And now these products are commonly accepted as proven things and/or truths. Are the principles they operate under fully understood, or are they now only commonly accepted beliefs? I suspect fuses are on the same path as all of the above. Ultimately, I don't think we can ever get past belief in the audio realm. We could try by knowing every single measurable and how it pertains to sound, and we could have some sort of listening artificial intelligence device that could replicate human hearing. But we would still lack the objectivity to replicate any one individual's mind processes. Listening to music through an audio system is certainly a psychological, sociological and perhaps metaphysical experience. It seems we are all relegated to being believers, and furthermore, lack the empathetic capacity to judge other's listening experience. Fuses make positive change for some, nothing for others. I know nothing of these people's unique experience with this product. |
Al, Your description of the F.W. amplifier electrical characteristics are on the mark. I mentioned those particular models as the ones that I'd be most interested in if considering solid state. Based on numerous feedback I've read the F.W. S.I.T. amplifiers intrigue me the most. Knowing myself I'd still probably would choose the tubed Dynamo MK II. Charles |
Good suggestions by Charles, as usual. A couple of caveats, though, regarding the First Watt F6 and F7. Their gain is particularly low for a power amplifier, at only 14 db. That will be problematic in some applications, especially if vinyl sources are being used and line stage gain is low. Also, the F7 has an input impedance of only 10K, which will be a problem for many tube preamps. Basically, I would view the Dynamo as being more versatile than the F6 and F7 in terms of compatibility with upstream components. While I would expect the F6 and F7 to have greater versatility than the Dynamo with respect to speaker compatibility, due to their greater power capability and also their presumably much lower output impedance. With the S.I.T. amps being more comparable to the Dynamo in the respects I've mentioned than to the F6 and F7. Best regards, -- Al |
If I were to venture into solid state again ( doubtful) the First Watt S.I.T.amplifiers would be at the top of the list then probably their F6 or F7 amplifiers. Wolf I believe that you’d really enjoy a good quality SE tube amplifier. Either direction chosen you’ll be happy with your efficient easy to drive speakers. Charles |
I simply noted that HAD said something about fuses in a youtube thing so I could garner more support for my opinions about fuses…and why shouldn't I? Plus, it's fun to watch geoffkait paint himself into corners. I already have a nice sounding push pull tube amp, but since I'm switching to a set of sensitive (not unlike myself) speakers I'm casting about for single ended stuff. I do have to rely on reviews since I'm unlikely to order several amps to test, but if I bought a Fire Bottle from Mister Had and it sucked, it would be politely shown the door (or the UPS man). Note that Had states that his new transformers are "real good" or something, and hey, would he exaggerate just to promote his amps? (heh heh). I own a single ended tube rectified "boutique" guitar amp and it's great, but not necessarily greater than my push pull guitar amps. Maybe I'll just get a First Watt SS thing and be done with it all, although I dig tubes man. |
Frank, Yes I believe that both would impress. Just depends on what type of sound you want, well executed class A/B push pull or class A single ended. Two audiogon members I really trust Brownsfan and Mikirob say that the Coincident Dynamo is excellent. I happened to own their Frankenstein MK II SET amplifier. Charles |
Frank, I’m sure the Huffman is a fine push pull amplifier (I trust your judgement). If Wolf however is interested in entering the world of lower power single ended I suggest that Canadian Coincident Dynamo MK II from Israel Blume. It is a SEP (el 34 Pentode wired for triode duty). It has very high quality transformers and robust power supply. Just another option to consider. It weighs 30 lbs,very solid chassis and has significant grunt yet very refined sound quality. Good luck Wolf. Charles |
From what I’ve gleaned looking around for reviews, the "Inspire" amps from Dennis Had have been pretty well accepted. I’d be interested to read otherwise since I’m considering a lower powered SE amp in my rig. Jmcgrogan2…feel free to suggest some reviews that helped you form your opinion as I’ll read ’em. I don’t read reviews, I find them to be a waste of time. Too many times I’ve read rave reviews, only to be disappointed. I provide my own reviews. I either like something, or I do not. A few years back I was using a Cary SLP-98P preamp which I liked quite a bit. I found out about Dennis’ Inspire line through threads on a website. I really wanted it to work, as did Dennis Had. He was very helpful, sending different tubes to try, and everything else. In the end, the sound was not good at all. The sound-stage was congested, it never opened up, and the highs and lows were rolled off. Dennis was great to work with all along the way. He even refunded all of my money when I returned the amp after 3 weeks of trying different tube combinations trying to bring it to life. My speakers may have had something to do with it, rated at 90 dB, 8 ohm load (Soliloquy). Certainly not HIGHLY efficient. However, many who raved about this amp had less efficient speakers.....so..... I still have the utmost respect for Dennis Had. The work he did at Cary was first rate. He is also a first class human being, and a LOT of fun to talk with. His Inspire amp did not work for me, but he certainly tried his best. |
I am with charles and grannyring on this one power supply and transformer quality being critically important on any tube amp. Never heard any of the Inspire amps but I will say I was very impressed with a Cary PP 2a3 integrated Vu lent me for few days. Incredibly transparent amp though the boss said it was too bright and I couldn't keep it. They do say women have better hearing but man I was in love with that amp! |
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Cutting right to the chase even if Mr. Had had been a world class designer that in and of itself doesn’t mean he’s right about fuses. In fact he’s not. There are plenty of world class amplifier designers who are not on board the aftermarket fuse train. That is certainly not reason to claim there’s nothing to them. As I said that is a Strawman argument. At least one high end designer I know uses circuit breakers in lieu of fuses. Nor are there very many hot shot amplifier designers who are on board the whole wire directionality thing for that matter. |
Al, I agree with your post, Dennis Had has proven success, yes. The problem is as you note when you attempt to cut cost. I’m not saying you need exotic premium transformers but they do need to be of reasonably high quality. Also wimpy power supply design is a certain recipe for poorer sound quality. He didn’t have these compromise concerns with his high quality Cary SET amplifiers, he used quite good quality parts especially output transformers. Charles |
Wolf_Garcia 3-29-2017FWIW, I think most would agree that if the words "former and current" had simply been omitted this sentence would stand as stated, regardless of one’s opinion of the Inspire amps. If a designer has a history of producing multiple designs that can reasonably be considered to be world class, but at other times has produced designs that are less than stellar, he is still a world class designer IMO. Especially if those other designs are at much lower price points than his main body of work. Best regards, -- Al |
Yes the power supply in my amp was not very robust and the iron was very small and light. Was the iron high quality? I don't know for sure but the ElectraPrint amp that followed it in my home weighted twice as much and sounded so much better. The EP amp put out 12 watts. I owned a George Wright 300b and 2A3 amp that was far more memorable sonically. Ditto for several other SET amps. His design looked solid and I am sure a better power supply and iron would reap big sonic benefits. But this would cost more! |
Bill, My understanding from reading comments on various threads is the outcomes are mixed. Some say they have only average quality output transformers and power supplies and sound okay but not exceptional. Others report excellent results. I suspect the chosen speaker plays a large role, if the amp's power supply and transformers are the limiting factors. Charles |
From what I’ve gleaned looking around for reviews, the "Inspire" amps from Dennis Had have been pretty well accepted. I’d be interested to read otherwise since I’m considering a lower powered SE amp in my rig. Jmcgrogan2…feel free to suggest some reviews that helped you form your opinion as I’ll read ’em. (Now I've read the forum thread where you indicate your "Inspire" experience). I did notice you did not like the Inspire amp in your system in that previous thread, but everyone else in that thread seemed to like them a LOT. Must be strange to be an outlier among other, more rabid fans (que ironic laughter here). My new speakers are around 93 DB efficiency so that might make a difference. Also, to stay on topic, SR fuses don't do anything so any benefits are imagined. (It's a fuse) Also I did notice that geoffkait, who claims to not use fuses, likes a new one that costs around 9 bucks that he hasn't used, but assumes it will work its magic for less money than an SR product. Hey…makes sense...right? |
Uberwaltz, I glad you took a chance with the SR Black fuses and they provided you an improvement in sound quality. No product will work out successfully with everyone in all circumstances, this never happens. Those same power cables and ICs that resulted in little or no improvement in your system probably were terrific in someone else’s system. I auditioned a few years ago some well reviewed and highly raved about isolation/vibration control footers. In my system with my components they did nothing! In fact some much less expensive Herbie’s footers were clearly more effective and did improve the sound quality. I returned the more expensive footers. I’ve had similar experiences with some cables as they just didn’t get it done in my system. Yet other people said these same cables were definitely better in their own systems, just the way it goes. These examples I mentioned were much more expensive items than the Black fuses yet were a disappointment in my experience. You have to listen and judge what you hear. I can believe that some will try the fuses and hear no improvement what so ever. All of these audio products and tweaks can be hit or miss in terms of results. Your outcome with the Black fuses was a positive one just as was mine, so yes in your situation the 240 dollars was well spent. I’ve rolled tubes that made less of an impact than the Black fuses. To be fair I’ve also made tube changes that were undeniable improvements, so as always it just seems to be circumstantial. Congratulations! By the way I am unaware of any badges 😊 Charles |
Well it looks like I will have to join the ranks of the "fusers"...do I get a badge with that? Unlike some critics who have not even tried them in their own system I thought I would be remiss not to at least try them, blown much more dough on less fruitfull endeavours in the past so what the heck, cant hurt. My Black fuses were delivered today and placed into the BAT VK600SE power amp and left cooking playing radio for a few hours before sitting down to a critical session. Put a well known to my ears cd in the mac and took her for a test drive. Pretty much the same result as the BLE power cord on the mac, there was just "more" of everything again, the soundstage was definitely wider and deeper, edges of plucked guitars more defined, cymbals seemed less splashy, more defined. To me well worth $240 for a pair I have zero expectation bias as I have paid plenty for power cords and interconnects in the past and heard absolutely nothing! Probably have at least $2k worth of power cords, interconnects etc that I could discern no real difference at all so to hear a marked improvement for $240 is to myself at least a darn good deal. No I have no idea how they work or why they work and tbh I really DO NOT CARE! |
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Also, I've met Dennis Had who is a former and current world class designer, and a brilliant no nonsense guy who is fun to talk to and seems to know more than the average forum knucklehead could ever understand about circuits and sound. A gracious and fun dude. I agree with all of that, except for the current world class designer part. Dennis is a blast to talk to, and his energy is infectious. Yes, he is very gracious, and fun too! I have a lot of respect for the work he did at Cary. He created some legendary products. However, his current Inspire line leaves a LOT to be desired. Sorry. |
wolf_garcia I don’t think geoffkait’s snarky and self important comments advance the charlatan’s position much at all, especially when he continues to list a pile of mostly useless pseudo tweaks as proof of the power of the unexplainable. Also, I’ve met Dennis Had who is a former and current world class designer, and a brilliant no nonsense guy who is fun to talk to and seems to know more than the average forum knucklehead could ever understand about circuits and sound. A gracious and fun dude. Also, to take an unrelated opportunity for name dropping, Judy Belushi is a friend of mine. A gracious and and fun dude? Hmmmm....There's gotta be a logical fallacy in there somewhere. How about the Appeal to the fun dude argument? Works for me. |
fleschler67 postsHas anyone on this forum broke open an SR black fuse and analyzed what it is made of and constructed?Would be very interesting for one of the blown ones to be sent to almarg for a analysis of what’s inside, but then again SR may have insisted it be sent back to them for the refund or replacement of a bigger amperage one Cheers George |
^^^kedoades ... These Fantasy reissues are usually pretty good with good sound.: http://www.ebay.com/itm/With-Jimmy-Raney-Red-Mitchel-Red-Trio-Norvo-CD-Used-Very-Good-/182056675905?... Also, the Savoy reissues can sound fantastic. However, they are hit and miss. Some sound very dated. If you like vibes, I recommend this one. IMO the best vibraphonist who ever set foot on the planet. http://www.ebay.com/itm/INTIMACY-OF-THE-BLUES-CAL-TJADER-NEW-CD-/281977844767?hash=item41a730741f:g:... Frank |
I don’t think geoffkait’s snarky and self important comments advance the charlatan’s position much at all, especially when he continues to list a pile of mostly useless pseudo tweaks as proof of the power of the unexplainable. Also, I've met Dennis Had who is a former and current world class designer, and a brilliant no nonsense guy who is fun to talk to and seems to know more than the average forum knucklehead could ever understand about circuits and sound. A gracious and fun dude. Also, to take an unrelated opportunity for name dropping, Judy Belushi is a friend of mine. |
Geoffkait,bravo for your refreshing and honest comments about this utter nonsense regarding the fabricated and imaginary benefits of the Synergistic Research SR Red Quantum Fuse and SR Black Quantum Fuse (you gotta love that "Quantum" part -- as if these fuses provided a "magic" entry to let's say "Quantum Physics" or "Quantum Particles" ; you know something that elevates them to the level of the much prized-but- very elusive "Unobtaniun" ((available on Ebay and Amazon- limited quantities,order now,once stocks are gone cannot be replaced)) <<. I thinks this discussion should expand to include " Quantum Energy or Zero-Point Field " another 'f ass cinating" topic; and of course the ever elusive "Quantum Moment"--which I'm sure many of those in this thread have an abundance of.. |
Has anyone on this forum broke open an SR black fuse and analyzed what it is made of and constructed?What are you trying to do, ruin a good thread? For Pete's sake, what is everyone going to write about if these are nothing more than ceramic-body, sand-filled, Bussman type fuses? All the build-up, all the suspense, all the speculation - what new color will SA choose for their next "greatest sounding ever" fuse causing all fusers to sell-off and buy-up; how will we be "blinded by science" with how a new fuse inexplicably breaks barriers never thought possible when applying simple physics, natural laws, and scientific principles; what types of bees will AM use next....all the possibilities of profound system improvements to be gained by adding "audiophile approved" fuses, lost in the blink of a voltage surge. A similar thing happened when some cable folks began to open up their cables....you mean cables are nothing more than wire soldered or crimped to connectors that I can purchase from on-line vendors? It was like finding out there is no Santa Claus. What's left to believe in? |
almarg Geoffkait: ... most or almost all observable phenomena CAN be explained by current scientific laws or facts. What might be difficult for one person to explain might be a snap for someone else. +1. A good audio-related example of that can be found in the current thread entitled "Most Important, Unloved Cable," in which several people reported that significant sonic improvements resulted from upgrading ethernet cables that are used in their systems. With the upgrades in most cases being very inexpensive. A couple of posters, including one who deals with ethernet networking professionally, dismissed that as preposterous, and undoubtedly the result of expectation bias. But for someone who happens to have the right background (me), it was a snap to explain those results. And to explain them in a manner, as I put it in that thread, that is "well within the bounds of established science and engineering." See my post in that thread dated yesterday, 3-27-2017. BTW, in saying this my intent is certainly not to toot my own horn, but simply to provide a specific audio-related example supporting your comments. As fate would have it there are many audio related examples that do NOT support my comments, which is why I left a little wiggle room when I said, "most or almost all observable phenomena can be explained by current laws and facts." The humble fuse may actually be one of those examples judging by the demands for electron microscopes. ;-) But more to the point here a short list of audio related devices and tweaks that seem to defy "conventional" explanations, by that I mean current scientific laws or facts. Or else they are ambiguous. To whit, The Intelligent Chip, Mpingo disc, the Tice Clock, the Clever Little Clock, PWB Silver Rainbow Foil, PWB Cream Electret, CD demagnetizes, CD ionizers, PWB Red X Pen, the color purple for CD outer edge, WA Quantum Chip, Schumann Frequency generator, |
When the electron microscope enters the discussion it usually means it’s time to turn out the lights. That’s almost as funny as when someone took an Intelligent Chip to a metallurgy lab to examine the metal on both sides of the chip for quantum dots. Besides, if the fuse wire were very large as someone suggested the wire would not melt when required. Hel-loo! |
You know, now that I am thinking about it, there are a lot of at least as bright as the average lightbulb people here. It would be something if we had an actual working scientist in a lab among us who could add a real analysis of what the physical properties are of some of the items we kick back and forth. Fuses, cables, receptacles. Kind of get past the physical aspect hurdle up front. |
