This morning we had a power surge. First one I ever experienced. It knocked out the sub woofer components of my GoldenEar Triton one speakers. In my ignorance I had them plugged into the wall rather than a surge protector. Soooo it blew the amplifiers in the sub woofers. It’s going to be a costly proposition: $500 for the amplifiers plus God knows how much the dealer is going to charge for coming to my house. (He’s very reluctant to do it, wants me to lug the 80 lbs speakers to the store.
Meanwhile, I’m having to listen to bass-less speakers for the foreseeable future.
So, the moral of the story is plug everything into a surge protector.
The Siemens BoltShield I have happens to be rated for both, and still has a relatively high clamping voltage and some activation time.
In terms of meeting the NEC requirements for new home construction either location is acceptable, so long as the SPD is rated appropriately, meaning, as far as the NEC is concerned they’ll offer similar protection for your equipment regardless of where it’s installed.
You may also install both kinds, and there’s some merit in installing them at sub-panels when the sub panels are particularly far away from the main panel.
So, I return to my main thesis, that the most important part of a surge protection strategy is having a whole house surge protector AND a highly effective plug in surge protector for your sensitive gear.
Once you have done that I think the question of whether your whole house unit should be at your meter or panel becomes less important.
@erik_squires Yes. As I read further, it appears that nothing gives protection in the event of an actual lightning strike. Storms in the area are best handled by unplugging your system. Cheers.
@bigtwinNever said otherwise, but most damaging surges are not direct, and I'm definitely not home about 80% of the time there's lightning around the home.
I meant to say that I use a Trip Lite everywhere except my PC because I have an Uninterruptable Power Supply.
You are saying UPS automatically does surge protection?
I just got the Trip-Lite Isobar. From what I understand Surge Protector Power Strip 1700J Protection does not offer surge protection but Tripp-Lite does because something to do wit the 3 status lights
@erik_squiresYes, it was Garth Powell who left Furman and went to Audioquest.
I also use a Niagara 1200 and have had many brownouts and complete power losses from transformers going out in the neighborhood and all of my equipment is fine (lots of new construction).
I’ve tried Tripplite and Brickwall and the Niagara is the only one I couldn’t detect a difference in regarding soundstage and dynamics. My Cullen power boxes have bettered the Tripplite and Brickwall in the same regard, equaling the Niagara, but doesn’t sound as clean as it. YMMV.
@immatthewj What does switching off the breakers do. Don’t you want them on so they offer protection by tripping?
If you switch them off, don’t you lose their protection and allow current to flow through without impediment?
@vinylshadow , I guess I wasn’t clear. I manually trip the breaker so the circuit for my audio system is turned off. (Kind of like unplugging the components but easier.) I don’t know if a massive voltage spike would jump across a breaker that was tripped, but I would think not.
@immatthewj I believe you are defeating the protection that breakers provide by tripping them. Best to unplug your mains cables from the outlets.
@vinylshadow there is a comment up above by @jea48 and he actually addressed my question of whether a massive voltage spike could jump across an 'open' breaker, and once again, I was wrong, as @jea48 states that, 'Yes, it can, so best to unplug.'
However, I am not sure what you mean by
defeating the protection that breakers provide by tripping them
If I am not mistaken, the protection that a breaker provides to a circuit is that when the circuit is overloaded with too many amps the breaker reacts to the heat generated by that overload of amperage and then it trips and opens that circuit and then everything powered by that circuit is without power. So how does me manually tripping that breaker possibly defeat the protection the breaker offers?
I’ve ordered the Furman PST-8 unit to protect my new subwoofers once they are installed.
+1 on that, @rvpiano , I am going to be right behind you. Are you going to use the cord that comes with the PST-8, as I think it is an 18 gauge cord, or are you going to put a heavier cord on it?
Turning off a branch circuit breaker at an electrical panel is not the same as unplugging the equipment from the wall outlet. Distance...
Take a Square D QO single pole 20 amp breaker. In the open position the two contacts are about 3/4" apart. A several 1000 Volt lightning transient will easily jump that divide...
@jea48 , would a several 1000 Volt lightning transient be like a direct hit?
@erik_squires , after years and years and years of putting it off, I think I am about ready to pull the trigger on a Furman PST-8 myself. I note that it comes with an 18 gauge power cord--is there any down side to using a heavier aftermarket power cord with it?
NO. A high voltage lightning transient event lasts no longer than the blink of an eye, at most a few microseconds to milliseconds. For that reason a good SPD must absorb, shunt, divert, a high voltage transient to ground in a nanosecond or less.
@jea48 , thank you--I have learned a lot from you in the past and I continue to do so. I am not trying to beat this horse to death in order to get the answer I want, I am genuinely trying to learn as much as I can, so would the kind of voltage surge/spike that could jump across a tripped circuit breaker be protected from by a surge protector? For example, by the Furman PST-8 that has been talked about in this thread? Thanks again.
Well, this is interesting, I am looking at the picture of a PST-8 on Amazon and it shows a detachable 3' cord, and then I am looking at a PST-8 on Sweetwater and it is showing the power cord hardwired into the PST-8. Hmmmm? (The PST8 from 'Zon costs about $20 more.) I guess I'll order the one from 'Zon and unless someone on this thread advises agsindt, I think I'll grab a heavier cord that is 3' long. I think I'll order this one in 3' long:
@immatthewj What does switching off the breakers do. Don't you want them on so they offer protection by tripping?
If you switch them off, don't you lose their protection and allow current to flow through without impediment?
@vinylshadow , I just re-read the entire thread to make sure that I was going to order the correct product and in the course of that re-reading I went through this post by you again, and when I said I turn the breaker off I meant that I manually trip it and this does the opposite of "allow current to flow through without impediment" as it actually completely impedes current from flowing through the circuit under normal circumstances.
However, Jea informs me that a massive voltage spike/surge could jump across a tripped breaker and this does not offer the level of protection that I thought it did. I think, however, it may have been sufficient to protect against the type of surge that the OP of this thread experienced. I hope I cleared up what I meant on that.
as I read the responses here and your original post, it seems clear you should have a protected outlet at each speaker
An inexpensive product with an equipment warranty would be the Pro series fromAPC one for each speaker total of around $60 or less
if your house wiring is correct, and you have a surge, the units *clamp* the voltage, fail the unit in off mode. replace with another or send unit in toAPC for replacement
message me if you need more detail, or would even like a call to clarify.
hope your repair goes smoothly!
@jea48- Furman with SMP will protect in both cases you mentioned.
It uses series mode protection (SMP) which has no activation time. My understanding is that they rate surge protectors for 5kV surges specifically because the expectation is that anything over that will jump incoming insulation to ground before it can enter the home. The series mode protection slows the event down long enough for the over voltage breaker to trip if still needed, such as the case in a continuous over or under-voltage.
I want to point out that we’re deep into the "what if" situations that are not the major cases. I remember when seat belts became required by law, everyone focused on "what if a plane lands on my car? What if a dinosaur swallows my Eclipse? How is the seat belt going to help me then?" despite the fact that seat belts converted about half of fatal car accidents to non-fatal accidents.
Living in South Carolina near the ocean I’ve had at least a dozen serious surge events some of which were near-misses but most were not. The OP has already discovered that the 2 devices not surge protected in his stereo were what went, I’ve had the same happen here, but with a laptop. I’ve also had my Furman’s turn off due to over/under voltages caused by nearby transformer events.
You are right though, the A’gon poster who had the roof blown off his living room was probably not going to be protected. How many of us have actually had that happen vs. the more moderate cases?
I was formerly in the high end computer sales business. There are only 2 "over the counter" surge protector brands that actually do anything . TrippLite has got a lot of mention above and I totally agree. The other brand in Panamax. If you don't have one of those I consider it a power strip. I'm sure there are Audiophile grade products that do a great job, I'm talking regular "over the counter" surge protectors.
Both Panamax and Furman are owned by the same parent company, Linear, LLC, which is a division of Nortek, Inc. In 2006, Panamax acquired Furman Sound, and since then, Furman has operated as a second brand within Panamax.
When I last looked, some Panamax high end surge protectors included the Furman features of SMP and LiFT.
You are right that a lot of snake oil in this business exists which is why I always turn to the Wirecutter article which is, as far as I know, the only third-party survey of surge protectors which actually includes 5kV surge testing.
The Furman brand has long been associated with professional sound gear as well as home gear.
My amplifier manual specifies not to connect to a power strip unless it is rated for High Current use. My question is are the Furman/Tripp Lite mentioned here capable for High Current use?
@erik_squiresthanks for the input. I ordered the Furman PST 8, if it doesn't work I can use it for the rest of the Audio/Video equipment, but hopefully, it will support my Amplifier.
I have some GE Triton 1's. Sounds like it might be a blown fuse. Isn't that what the fuse is for? The fuse is a little hard to get at. Instead of being able to access it from the outside, you have to unscrew the amp plate. I can't remember if you have to pull down the sock. The folks at Golden Ear have always been really helpful to me. I would talk to them about your problem. Might be an easy fix.
Checking the fuses is a great first step, but they aren’t really for protecting against incoming voltage surges. They are for protecting from shorts inside the gear. A damaging surge voltage may be 400V or higher but never exceed a few microamps, therefore no breaker or fuse tripping. For the same reasons the NEC now requires homes be surge protected in addition to the required breakers.
A power surge is often high voltage but relatively low total power and current. Takes a sustained current flow for that fuse to heat up and trip but it only takes microamps and milliseconds to burn out a semiconductor. Sometimes the static electricity you generate walking across a carpet can be enough, and would be if semiconductors were out of their protective enclosure.
When I was in manufacturing we’d even bring in humidifiers in addition to static straps to prevent chips from dying from static discharge during assembly and test. To put this in proportion, it takes about 15 milliamps to interfere with your hearts beating, but that tiny bit of high voltage current can wreak havoc on a lot of electronics.
If it were me, I’d 100% ask if they can repair just the amps. 😂 The amp is going to be a lot lighter and smaller than the whole speaker.
If you feel comfortable with a screwdriver you should be able to remove the sub amp and ship that alone to them. When you do, measure the resistance of the subwoofer coil with any cheap multimeter, and talk to GE techs first. If they measure like a dead short or infinity you may have bad woofers as well.
The amps have shipped and should arrive Tuesday.
Unfortunately, I am not the least bit handy, so I am going to suffer the expense of paying a technician from the dealer.
Thanks for the info. That makes sense. I'm running my T1's as rear surrounds and have them on a small APC surge protector. My front end electronics are on a Furman Elite 20, but my front T Ref's and power amps are just into the wall. Maybe I need to rethink things. I'm in Vegas. We don't get many thunder storms, but do get a few. I've never had a destructive power surge so far, but......
Sounds like a cord and plug Type 3 SPD will do little, if anything, for protecting audio equipment from a high voltage transient event if the branch circuit wiring is less than 30ft long.
Well, that sure explains why Wirecutter’s testing with 5kV is useless... (not).
Based on other readings in the NEC, my understanding is that when the NEC includes minimum wiring distance as important they are considering the total amp interrupt rating. That is, if a short should occur, will it cause too much current for the upstream breakers. They are not making a statement about the effectiveness of the surge protector. They are saying you should keep it far enough away to ensure when the protector does work it won’t overload the breakers.
In the case of SMP devices, this is not an issue as they block current instead of encouraging it as MOV’s do.
Again, if you are questioning the effectiveness of Furman devices, I encourage you to read the full Wirecutter article and their testing methods. There’s no bone in that soup to pick.
So, I asked Pi.ai for a little help in reading, and Pi brought up 3 points worth discussing:
Type 3 Surge Protection Devices (SPDs) are typically installed at a distance of at least 10 meters (33 feet) from the main electrical panel or power distribution board for a few reasons:
To allow for proper voltage clamping: Installing the SPD at a certain distance from the panel allows it to effectively clamp down the overvoltage surge before it reaches the equipment being protected. This distance ensures that the SPD has enough time to react to the surge and divert it to ground safely.
To avoid potential damage to the electrical panel: If an SPD is installed too close to the electrical panel, there’s a risk that the surge energy diverted to ground by the SPD could damage the panel itself or the wiring connected to it.
To reduce the risk of interference: By keeping the SPD at a safe distance from the electrical panel, it minimizes the potential for electromagnetic interference (EMI) or other types of interference that could negatively impact the performance of nearby electrical equipment.
It’s been a really confusing read since some type 3 devices are permanently installed, and others are plug and cord.
If you use any series mode protection (Furman SMP, Brickwall or Zerosurge) these three points are moot. The low pass filter they incorporate (aka wave shaping filter) slows the super-fast rise time of a surge and reduces current flow due to the surge, and gives the surge protector enough time to disconnect if needed.
In essence the 10m requirement uses the wiring in the building as a RL low pass filter to ensure MOV’s downstream have time to react and won’t actually stress the AIR (Amp Interrupt Rating) of upstream breakers (kind of what I mentioned). However, series mode protective devices ARE RL filters (more L than R).
Other devices which are not strictly series mode like older Panamax may also include enough wave shaping to let the MOVs do their job. It's not exactly guaranteed, but you can't really get to very low let through voltages without some sort of wave shaping/filtering in place because MOVs alone can't clamp low enough and fast enough to keep the let through voltages down.
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