This morning we had a power surge. First one I ever experienced. It knocked out the sub woofer components of my GoldenEar Triton one speakers. In my ignorance I had them plugged into the wall rather than a surge protector. Soooo it blew the amplifiers in the sub woofers. It’s going to be a costly proposition: $500 for the amplifiers plus God knows how much the dealer is going to charge for coming to my house. (He’s very reluctant to do it, wants me to lug the 80 lbs speakers to the store.
Meanwhile, I’m having to listen to bass-less speakers for the foreseeable future.
So, the moral of the story is plug everything into a surge protector.
DESCRIPTION
Our Thermo-Fuse Varistor (TVZ) is a family of Transient Voltage Surge Suppression products. TVZ is a three-lead Thermally Protected Metal Oxide Varistor. One lead of the TVZ varistor is connected to a thermal fuse, it will automatically open-circuit when the varistor is under sustained abnormal over-voltage condition. The TVZ series is designed to meet the abnormal over-voltage requirements of UL 1449, Section 37.
Traditional Metal Oxide Varistor (MOV) withstands 150% of its rated voltage for a given duration.
But MOV may fail to a short-circuit condition or fail open when subjected to sustained steady-state over-voltage above its rated specifications.
Our TVZ has a thermal fuse incorporated with its MOV disk that responds to the MOV temperature and disconnects the MOV from power should the temperature exceed a certain level.
Our TVZ provides a real “Fail Safe” protection to sensitive downstream electric components.
As for this from a post of mine above on 05-13-2024 at 10:55am
jea48 Said:
For those with Sub panels for the audio equipment where the branch circuit wiring is less than 30ft from the wall outlet to the sub panel.
Type 3 - Point of utilization SPDs, installed at a minimum conductor length of 10 meters (30 feet) from the electrical service panel to the point of utilization, for example cord connected, direct plug-in, receptacle type and SPDs installed at the utilization equipment being protected. The distance (10 meters) is exclusive of conductors provided with or used to attach SPDs.
At the very least a good quality type 2 SPD should be installed, connected, to the sub panel.
Sounds like a cord and plug Type 3 SPD will do little, if anything, for protecting audio equipment from a high voltage transient event if the branch circuit wiring is less than 30ft long.
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Type 3 - Point of utilization SPDs, installed at a minimum conductor length of 10 meters (30 feet) from the electrical SERVICE PANEL to the point of utilization,
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"electrical service panel". UL1449 (3rd Edition) Type 3 SPD says nothing about a sub panel. Because it says nothing about a sub panel then the minimum 10meters, 30ft branch circuit conductor length does not apply. Sounds nuts to me but that’s the way I understand it.
In my search I looked in the 2020 NEC for anything that would shed some light on the subject. Why was a sub panel not in the language of the UL1449 rule for a Type 3 SPD?
I am pretty sure the reason for the minimum 30ft length of the branch circuit wiring has to do with the impedance/resistance of the conductor. ( It works as current limiter.)
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Fault current:
2020 NEC 110.9 Interrupting Rating.
Equipment intended to interrupt current at fault levels shall have an interrupting rating at nominal circuit voltage at least equal to the current that is available at the line terminals of the equipment.
Equipment intended to interrupt current at other than fault levels shall have an interrupting rating at nominal circuit voltage at least equal to the current that must be interrupted.
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110.10 Circuit Impedance, Short-Circuit Current Ratings, And Other Characteristics.
The overcurrent protective devices, the total impedance, the equipment short-circuit current ratings, and other characteristics of the circuit to be protected shall be selected and coordinated to permit the circuit protective devices used to clear a fault to do so without extensive damage to the electrical equipment of the circuit. This fault shall be assumed to be either between two or more of the circuit conductors or between any circuit conductor and the equipment grounding conductor(s) permitted in 250.118. Listed equipment applied in accordance with their listing shall be considered to meet the requirements of this section.
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Impedance. The impedance of the minimum length of 30ft for a branch circuit wiring works as a current limiter? So a longer branch circuit wiring, just a guess, would be better. More impedance...
Just a guess ANSI / IEEE / UL used the impedance of #14AWG or #12AWG in their calculation. Wonder what happens when the branch circuit conductors are #10AWG. ??? Nothing, no difference???
Still doesn’t answer the question about a sub panel.
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2020 NEC 230.67 Surge Protection. ( N = New for the 2020 Code edition.)
N 230.67 Surge Protection.
N (A) Surge-Protective Device. All services supplying dwelling units shall be provided with a surge-protective device (SPD).
N (B) Location. The SPD shall be an integral part of the service equipment or shall be located immediately adjacent thereto.
Exception: The SPD shall not be required to be located in the service equipment as required in (B) if located at each next level distribution equipment downstream toward the load.
N (C) Type. The SPD shall be a Type 1 or Type 2 SPD.
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The Exception tells us it doesn’t have to be installed at the service equipment if it is installed at the sub panel(s).
Nothing here as for the UL1449 3rd Edition Type 3 SPD minimum 30ft branch circuit length for the conductors. You are required to have a type 1 or type 2 at the main electrical service equipment/panel or down stream sub panel(s).
Theory:
Impedance. A Type 3 SPD is not capable of absorbing, clamping, or diverting to ground a large surge of energy as the bigger Type 1 or Type 2 SPD. Thus the above 30ft minimum length rule when the branch circuit is feed from the main electrical service panel. The further away from the main service electrical panel the Type 3 SPD is the higher the impedance of the conductors the Type 3 SPD will be plugged into.
Even the feeder that feeds a sub panel will add impedance. Maybe that’s why a sub panel is not mentioned in the UL1449 3rd Edition for a Type 3 SPD. ANSI / IEEE / UL took into account the total length of the sub panel feeder plus the branch circuit wiring. Don’t know...
One thing for sure, at least the way I see it, If the sub panel is within a few feet of the main service equipment panel I would treat the sub panel as a main electrical service panel. YMMV.
@jea48 , sorry if it seems as if I am beating this circuit breaker thing to death, but am I correct in assuming that the type of surge that the OP of this thread probably experienced would NOT have been one that would have jumped across a tripped breaker? (As it stands, I unplugged my system after I finished up with it this evening.)
@immatthewjYou are correct. and most surges capable of damaging electronics are invisible.
For some reason some people equate a power surge only with visible near by lightning strikes which cause visible arcing and sparks inside the home. The theory goes, well, if that’s what will damage my gear then there’s nothing I can do.
I run this wired/mounted external and away from the circuit box:
"and away from the circuit box:"
What do you mean away from the circuit box?
I assume the SPD is mounted directly to the electrical panel. Leads are short not longer than 6" per the manufacturer’s recommendations. There is a reason to keep the leads as short as possible, without making sharp bends in the wires, for a Type 1 and Type 2 SPD.
Watch this video. It shows you why they are kept short.
FWIW, I attended a Surge Protection Seminar where the same piece of equipment was used for the test. The unit generates a 6000V, 3000A transient surge that lasts only a few micro seconds when the test button is pushed. Without the SPD, in the blink of an eye, the filament was vaporized in the incandescent light bulb. And yes distance matters as the above video shows.
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EP-2050 Series INSTALLATION GUIDE 5
Mounting
For optimal performance, mount EP product as close to
electrical panel as possible. Longer wire increases inductance
in the system and the EP unit may not function properly.
Make sure the EP product is mounted in a dry and clean
environment. The EP unit can be mounted in any secure area
above, below, beside or inside the electrical panel.
For optimal performance:
• EP-2050 should be connected no more than
6 inches from electrical panel.
Yes, a panel mounted surge protector nearest the incoming power cables is best and has the lowest RL. Worth giving up 2 or 4 slots for. Next is wired, and as close to entrance of service wiring as possible.
The issue is that they are parallel devices that need to move lots of current to keep the voltage at the other breakers down. High R or L makes them less effective.
Be cautions with web site reviews that provide links to buy the product. They make money off the links and hence provide good reviews to products (or only review) that participate in the referral program. Does not mean the product is not good, but there is a financial motivation with the review.
@jea48 , sorry if it seems as if I am beating this circuit breaker thing to death, but am I correct in assuming that the type of surge that the OP of this thread probably experienced would NOT have been one that would have jumped across a tripped breaker?
Hopefully the electric company will pay something. I’m going to fill out a claim form. I’ll also check out the homeowner policy.
@immatthewj, going from what @rvpianosaid above he apparently believes the power surge event was not related to lightning. (I mean the OP would know if there was a thunderstorm going on during the event.) Utility Power Companies do not pay for damage caused by lightning.
The power company will know if they had a power surge problem at the day and approximate time of the event in the OP’s area where he lives.
Note the OP posted his thread on 5/9 of this month and has not posted to date that he lost any other electrical items in his home. To me, jmo, if their was a utility company power surge it was not a high-voltage, like a 1,000Vac or 1,000s of volts. The OP would have lost other electrical items, things, in his home.
We don’t know if the surge was not caused by something in his home. Most high-voltage transient surges are generated in the home.
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As for this:
am I correct in assuming that the type of surge that the OP of this thread probably experienced would NOT have been one that would have jumped across a tripped breaker?
I have no idea. A high voltage in the thousands of volts will flash over. We have no idea what voltage caused the damaged.
Now if we were talking about the fault current interrupting rating of the breakers in your electrical panel they are more than likely 10KA. What that means in the event of a bolted Line to Line short or a bolted Hot Line to EG (Equipment Ground) ground fault the breaker will trip open and and not arc across the contacts up to 10KA.
Watch this video. You have no idea how much power, available fault current, the utility power transformer that feeds your house can supply to the AC main’s wiring in the event of a bolted fault. Take note, distance, length, of wiring matters.Conductor Impedance.
The best remedy is NOT to listen to direct to wall purists and audio enthusiasts often contributing to discussions here. They are extremely delusional. There are may be X many reasons vs. just ONE safety you can't jeopardize. I have surges nearly daily and my relatively vintage Panamax is a REAL DOG when it comes to protection and voltage stabilization!
The discussion on this got me to dragging my feet. I did go to Furman's site and I do see that Sweet Water is an authorized dealer, so I think I am going to call them and order a PST-8 from them, and it will be better protection than what I have now, which is no surge protection.
I will say that so far in my life I have NEVER experienced any type of surge activity that damaged any of my components, and once upon a time I never even used to unplug my gear during thunderstorm activity--I was happily oblivious.
But there is a first time for everything. I used to eat six raw eggs a day, and when someone told me about raw egg salmonella I scoffed at that person. I told him that I must have ate ten thousand raw eggs and never suffered so much as an upset stomach. But then I thought about it soime more, and I decided that as many raw eggs as I had consumed in my life, I was probably due to get a bad one. So I don't do that anymore. As far as my system goes, for the immediate time being it is physically unplugged from the wall when not being used.
The only time I ever unplug my gear is if there is going to be thunderstorms. And of course I unplug the gear if I go on Vacation, among other things in the house.
You might want to invest good Whole House Type 2 SPD for the main electrical service panel. That’s the first line of defense. A type 3 SPD is the 2nd line of defense.
I will say that so far in my life I have NEVER experienced any type of surge activity that damaged any of my components, and once upon a time I never even used to unplug my gear during thunderstorm activity--I was happily oblivious.
I think this may very well be location dependent. Living in SC, I randomly asked a few people who are NOT techno or audiophiles if they’ve lost equipment to power surges and everyone I asked had. One both in the Berkshires and in South Carolina.
I’ve lost gear or been present when gear went bad half a dozen times in my life. In the last 3 years alone I’ve lost a laptop (plugged in directly) and a cable modem to surges. When I moved in there was in fact a burnt out surge protector still screwed into an outlet, presumably where a TV had been. I lose power about 4x a year due to storms, plus we have about 3 power incidents per year not related to storms when the power goes out or my UPS on my computer has to intervene or my Furman shuts the power off to the stereo or both.
The differences in experience based on geographic location certainly justifies why readers may or may not wish to spend the money for the extra protection. I 100% understand that. What I don’t understand are those who only focus on direct strikes, cause that’s rarely been how I lost gear.
I should point out that blackouts are potential causes of surges, both when the power gets disconnected and when the power is restored. As a child in Atlanta we lost many appliances when power came back on.
If your power goes out, unplug all electronic devices before it comes back on. When power is restored, the rush of electricity may overwhelm your appliances. Wait several minutes to plug your devices back in after you have power again.
Yeah, unplug about everything in the house.
When the power goes out, (If I’m home), I head for the mechanical room and turn off the main 200A breaker. When the power comes back on I wait a little while to make sure it is going to stay on and when it has stabilized, I then turn the Main breaker back on.
When power first comes back on Line it pretty much see a dead short. Unbelievable inrush current. You got all that motor driven stuff out there trying to start up at the same time. Current amps shoot way up at first then it starts to level off. Only problem is the Voltage overshoots the normal nominal voltage and the overvoltage is what causes damage to electronics. A Type 1 or Type 2 SPD will not protect squat from an overvoltage lasting more than a few milliseconds. The overvoltage event lasts more than just a few milliseconds...
That’s when the user screams the loudest. What a piece scrap. Junk, Do not buy. The XXX SPD didn’t work and I lost, $$$$. One star rating! (Just a guess the SPD failed during a power outage.)
The Furman Type 3 SPD might save the audio equipment but it won’t save any of the rest of the electrical stuff in the house. About the only appliance, that I can think of, found in a home today that doesn’t have a microprocessor in it is a sliced bread toaster.
What I don’t understand are those who only focus on direct strikes, cause that’s rarely been how I lost gear.
If you mean a direct lightning strike nothing will protect your home.
A Type 1 or Type 2 SPD will only protect from a nearby lightning strike.
I will say though I have heard where a commercial/industrial grade SPD, (High Dollar Type 2 SPD), did protect equipment. It did sacrifice itself doing so though.
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The only actual lightning direct strike to a house that I know of first hand, well actually the lightning strike hit a tree close to the house first, then the house.
A cousin of my wife’s decided to take a bath while there was a thunderstorm going on.
Lightning hit the tree, jumped to the house, traveled down steel siding, passed through the wood stud outside wall and hit the cast iron bathtub he was in. He lived to tell the story. He said it took for ever to get the metallic taste out of his mouth.
Needless to say he no longer takes a bath during a thunderstorm.
As far as power going out and coming right back on, or going out and staying out 5 or 10 minutes or an hour, that happens here in western Pa. all the time, and often there is no apparent reason, such as a T’storm, for it. In the past I did not unplug my equipment, and in the days of yore I did not even trip my breaker. That wave of paranoia started quite recently. Probably since I started reading posts here.
I will say that I have never experienced any component or appliance damage. But I am not arguing with you guys about it. I never started wearing my seat belt until I lost my drivers license for a year when I was 31, and I never was injured or killed in a car wreck, but I was lucky and I know that they save lives. I guess I have been lucky with my appliances and components as well.
Do “high end” power conditioners from Shunyata, PS Audio, Audioquest, etc, provide surge protection equal to the Furman? Or is their surge protection an afterthought compared to their power conditioner function?
I have an Shunyata that is about 6 years old. Should I buy a Furman and plug my Shunyata into the Furman?
I had the new amps for the subwoofer installed yesterday with the plugs in the wall socket, and things sounded great. I then plugged one of them into the Furman. The light on the amp flickered and then went out. I plugged it back into the wall. Same thing happened
No sound! Evidently the Furman caused the amp to stop working!
I had the new amps for the subwoofer installed yesterday with the plugs in the wall socket, and things sounded great. I then plugged one of them into the Furman. The light on the amp flickered and then went out. I plugged it back into the wall. Same thing happened
Oh boy...
Same thing happened
What do you mean the same thing happened? The light on the amp flickered and then went out ?
I assume the power inlet for the amp is an IEC. Make sure the power cord female IEC connector is pushed in all the way on the male inlet blades. Pray that’s the problem...
If not.
Just a guess the Furman PST-8 couldn’t handle the inrush current demand of the sub woofer amp causing a large voltage drop to the power supply of the amp. But that’s only guess.
Questions:
How many watts into 8 ohms, or 4 ohms, is the amp rated for? Just trying to find out how big the power supply is. On the back of the amp does it give an AC power consumption wattage number. Or maybe an FLA rating. If the amps are big output wattage amps any idea if they are across the line power on amps or have a soft start circuit that limits inrush current on AC power turn on.
Where did you buy the Furman PST-D8? Hopefully from an authorized Dealer. The PST-8 photos show a captive 8ft power cord. I couldn’t find any info on the wire gauge though. Hopefully Furman used 14awg. But they wouldn’t have to. It could be 16ga. Anyway it will say on the outer jacket of the cord. Check to see what it says. 8ft of 14ga will have less of a voltage drop during a high inrush current event than 8ft of 16ga.
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FWIW, I have two ARC VT50 tube power amps. They are across the Line for power turn on. Several years ago I checked each amp for turn on inrush current with a clamp amp meter and measured 45 amps. Instantaneous peak inrush amps would have been higher than 45 amps. I would never try to plug one of the amps into Type 3 SPD. YMMV...
As far as power going out and coming right back on, or going out and staying out 5 or 10 minutes or an hour, that happens here in western Pa. all the time, and often there is no apparent reason, such as a T’storm, for it. In the past I did not unplug my equipment, and in the days of yore I did not even trip my breaker. That wave of paranoia started quite recently. Probably since I started reading posts here.
I will say that I have never experienced any component or appliance damage.
I think this may very well be location dependent. Living in SC, I randomly asked a few people who are NOT techno or audiophiles if they’ve lost equipment to power surges and everyone I asked had. One both in the Berkshires and in South Carolina.
I’ve lost gear or been present when gear went bad half a dozen times in my life. In the last 3 years alone I’ve lost a laptop (plugged in directly) and a cable modem to surges. When I moved in there was in fact a burnt out surge protector still screwed into an outlet, presumably where a TV had been. I lose power about 4x a year due to storms, plus we have about 3 power incidents per year not related to storms when the power goes out or my UPS on my computer has to intervene or my Furman shuts the power off to the stereo or both.
@erik_squireshit the nail on the head. "location dependent"
Has anything changed, with your AC mains power that feeds your equipment? Any more thunderstorms, since you started reading Audiogon Forum posts? No...
What’s that tell you?
I did a google search last night for the city you live in PA. Nice town. Small population. Great weather. Never too hot, never too cold. Just right... Lightning storms, some. Nothing like Florida.
Power outages? Got a lot squirrels where you live? Would you believe they can cause power outages? Some how they can climb up a power pole and jump onto a high-voltage power line and run down the high-voltage wire without a care in the World. Then the squirrel comes to a Power Transformer hanging on a power pole. He works his way down the high-voltage wire to the insulator on top of the transformer. The squirrel steps from the HOT High-Voltage Line to the Grounded metal top of the transformer.
Sometimes the resistance of the squirrel is low enough to cause the high-voltage protection fuse ahead of the transformer to blow. Sometimes it doesn’t. If you have one of these you might experience the power go OFF and ON up to three times. If the ground fault is not cleared, (squirrel is vaporized, or is no longer conductive), after the third time the power is automatically switched off. At that point it must be manually reset. That is after a Lineman removes what’s left of the squirrel.
Has anything changed, with your AC mains power that feeds your equipment? Any more thunderstorms, since you started reading Audiogon Forum posts? No...
What’s that tell you?
@jea48 , that I am becoming neurotic and needlessly paranoid in my old age?
Hate to hear your having such problems. It's hard to believe it would be because of your power conditioner strip.
Did both amps go out on your GE T1's?
I would definitely check the fuse(s) this time.
When one of mine was brand new and first plugged in, it blew a fuse. The light came on, flickered, and then nothing.
FWIW I decided to plug my fronts into a couple of Tripp Lite Isobar 2 plug units I already had. My surround amps got plugged into a Furman AC 215A. I haven't had a chance to really listen to the system to see if I notice any changes. The way my system is set up, it's too hard to really do an A/B comparison. I'll have to rely on my memory. Now days, that's worse than my hearing:)
I’ve had the Furman PST-8 for just under 4 years, it is behind the stereo rack out of sight. From reading this thread I decided to check that the "Protection-OK" light was on indicating all is well.
It wasn’t on so the unit is basically a fancy power strip at this time, with "maybe" some unspecified level of power protection left. Funny enough, a much older surge protecter in the same receptacle which also has a power protection light is still working.
Called Furman and as mentioned earlier in this thread (I think this one) there is no internal fuse or reset mechanism. Basically said try unplugging it for 10 minutes but don’t expect much. No luck.
Has anything changed, with your AC mains power that feeds your equipment? Any more thunderstorms, since you started reading Audiogon Forum posts? No...
As far as power going out and coming right back on, or going out and staying out 5 or 10 minutes or an hour, that happens here in western Pa. all the time, and often there is no apparent reason, such as a T’storm, for it. In the past I did not unplug my equipment, and in the days of yore I did not even trip my breaker. That wave of paranoia started quite recently. Probably since I started reading posts here.
I will say that I have never experienced any component or appliance damage. But I am not arguing with you guys about it. I never started wearing my seat belt until I lost my drivers license for a year when I was 31, and I never was injured or killed in a car wreck, but I was lucky and I know that they save lives. I guess I have been lucky with my appliances and components as well.
JMHO, continue using the circuit breaker at the electrical panel to kill the power that feeds the wall outlet that your audio equipment is plugged into, as you have apparently been doing for years.
1. Most of power strips with surge protection under Trip Lite, Furman brands referred here has EMI/RFI filters built in. If one wants to protect the amplifiers without adverse impact from the filters, what brand / model do you recommend?
2. Based on my knowledge, all the UPS in the markets disregard the types (standby, online, line-interactive) have AC->DC and DC->AC double conversions which gives you 'dirty' power supply. Aren't you concerned at all getting the poor quality power supply by plugging your hi-fi gears into it, I wonder? Is there audiophile grade UPS out there?
I’m sorry to ask, but any chance you could get a plug in AC tester like this one from Kaiweets or this one from Klein? Something is very wonky. Test your outlet and test the resulting V at the Furman as well.
Of course, if you have a multimeter and know how to use it you should, but these will test the hot, neutral and the Kaiweets will even measure the N to G voltage.
1 - There are EMI/RFI filters, and wave shaping filters. The first aren’t doing anything below 100 kHz and are in parallel, the latter aren’t doing anything below 3 kHz, which is well above the 50 or 60Hz line frequency. I really don’t understand why people think that the power pole is cleaner than the power they have at their outlet, it often is not. The last thing I want is a super conductor between my amp and the power pole, which is what seems to be the target for audiophiles. I want resistance. I want inductance. Enough at least to reduce noise transmission and ensure surge protectors have time to work.
In order of preference, Furman and Tripp Lite, but please do take a look at the Wirecutter article as the brand AND model matters. Furman without SMP/LiFT is just another power strip.
2 - Well, the type matters because it’s not always on. I use these strictly for my PC, Internet access devices and CPAP. The PS Audio units are essentially the same idea, with Class D outputs (and noise) and very short run time. 🤣 There are UPS with sine wave outputs which are still a lot cheaper than the PS Audio units, but for whatever reason, the sine wave units tend to have a higher failure rate than the stepped voltage output units.
I had the new amps for the subwoofer installed yesterday with the plugs in the wall socket, and things sounded great. I then plugged one of them into the Furman. The light on the amp flickered and then went out. I plugged it back into the wall. Same thing happened
No sound! Evidently the Furman caused the amp to stop working!
New amps plugged directly into the wall. "Things sounded great.
We don’t know how long the OP listened to the speakers but I would imagine more than just a few minutes. Me, maybe an hour or more at least...
OP said:
I then plugged one of them into the Furman. The light on the amp flickered and then went out.
Just a guess the other speaker still works fine plugged directly into the wall outlet. Just a guess there is not any problem with his AC mains power at the wall outlet. But all I can go by is what the OP has posted since receiving the repaired speakers and plugging them both into the wall outlet and listening to them both. He said they sounded great...
I did a quick search on the Net looking for any info on the subwoofer amplifier in the GoldenEar Triton one speakers. All I could find, they are 1600 Watts Class D amps.
Couldn’t find much on the Net on how much AC power a 1600W class D amp draws. All I found was at 120Vac 33.3A pushing it full bore, I assume. Just a guess the user, listener, ears would be bleeding long before he got to continuous full bore.
I know squat about Class D amps. I have no idea how much current, amps, they draw on startup. Maybe someone reading this post does. Do they even have any inrush current to speak of... ???
I tried finding the wire gauge size of the 8ft power cord on Furman PST-8 SPD. I couldn’t find anything. Furman Lit says it has an 8ft captive power cord but nothing about the wire gauge. Looking at a photo the cord thickness of the power cord doesn’t look like it’s 14AWG. You want to limit current use an 8ft cord that is 16awg or smaller 18AWG. You will limit current but there will also be a voltage drop, times 2, proportional to the load current. (We are Not talking about an induction type motor load here).
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JMHO, not having more information to attempt to make an educated guess what caused the damage to the subwoofer amplifier, from what little bit that has been said and limited info found on the Net, I think the Amplifier was damaged from undervoltage. I just don’t think the Furman SPD was designed, manufactured, for a 1600W Class D amplifier to be connected to it. I just don’t think it could handle the turn on inrush current. The voltage sagged to who knows how low. The subwoofer amp may have voltage regulators that failed because the voltage went lower than what they were designed for. All speculation on my part though.
One thing for sure. I wouldn’t plug a descent size power amp into a Type 3 SPD. Unless the SPD says it is designed for a high inrush current load(s).
You want to limit current use an 8ft cord that is 16awg or smaller 18AWG. You will limit current but there will also be a voltage drop, times 2, proportional to the load current. (We are Not talking about an induction type motor load here).
You will limit current but there will also be a voltage drop, times 2, proportional to the load current.
times 2,
The length of the Hot and neutral conductors in the 8ft cord
If you don't have a whole house surge protector like the Seimens FS140, you're doing it wrong. Nothing else will do much, but SurgeX is probably the best outlet style protector.
For safety and reliability reasons whole house surge suppression units have a clamping voltage around 400V from neutral. I can tell you from personal experience they don't do great with sensitive electronics. Lets talk specs though:
A 120V circuit goes up and down 60Vrms from the neutral, which has a peak of ~ 85V .
60Vrms = 60V * square_root(2) = 84Vpk
According to actual third party testing here with a 5kV surge the Furman PST-8 let an additional 40 Volts through. Lets do the math:
It turned a 5,000-volt surge into just 40 volts, thanks in part to a shutdown circuit that turns off all power when it detects a surge. The Furman PST-8 actually let less voltage through in our tests than high-end series-mode surge eliminators that can cost hundreds more.
@ozzy I've had similar experiences with a whole house unit. The one piece of gear I lost was a laptop (Macbook Air with amazing battery life, so sad) which was the only piece of kit in my home that was not further protected by plug in strips.
Class D amps may have a linear or a switch-mode supply in front of them. If linear, it’s just like any other amp and inrush current depends on whether the designer put an turn-on limiter on it or not. Larger amps really should have this feature.
If it’s an SMP supply though there’s almost always a smooth, low current ramp on until it stabilizes and turns on the amp portion.
PS - you can tell the difference by weight. A linear supply is going to have a large transformer associated with it.
Had this installed a few months ago after a surge ruined a few appliances in my home. Recently a tree fell across the power lines across the street from my house causing a surge which blew up 4 breakers, another coffee machine, garage door opener, printer, and a few other small appliances. The damage was around $900. When the electrician contacted Siemens they told him the suppressor doesn’t cover a “sustained surge”? The unit seems totally fine lights are still green, it would have been nice if it at least fried the unit in the process but it did nothing. Don’t waste your money I just installed surge protected wall outlets at all my small appliances for $100 for 5 which seems more worth it. My neighbor installed a similar seimens unit at his house and his heat pump motor and circuit board blew also.
Amazon.com review (Go to the Website and click on the picture of the panel)
Sustained High-Voltage from the high-voltage HOT Line that feeds the primary winding of the stepdown power transformer.
In my area that High-Line-Voltage is around 7.9KVac to the grounded neutral conductor. YMMV.
For overhead fed electrical services at the pole power transformer both the High-Voltage neutral and secondary low voltage neutral conductors are bonded together and then connected to earth by a ground wire that fastens to the pole to a ground rod or metal plate on the bottom of the pole. Every Utility Power Transformer is done this way. Be it a pole transformer or pad mount transformer. Grounded Neutrals connects to earth everywhere, at your house too.... Stray voltages running through the earth everywhere... (Kind of makes you want to drive a dedicated ground rod for your audio system...)
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I can’t help but wonder if his Electrician, that installed the Siemens SPD, bothered to check the Electrical Service’s Grounding Electrode System. (Therein the connection to mother earth.) IEEE recommends a ground rod to soil resistance of 5 ohms or less for a reason. To get the High-Voltage fault current back to the source as quickly as possible, not into your home... (The lower the rod to soil resistance the greater the fault current, amps, back to the source. Simple OHMS LAW.) Source being the Utility Power Company’s High-Voltage Grounded neutral conductor. (The primary winding of the stepdown power transformer is fed from one of 3 Hot power lines, ( 3PH 4wire WYE 13.8KV power from a substation), and its’ common grounded neutral conductor. Think of as the 120V in your home. One Hot of two Hot ungrounded conductors and the common grounded neutral conductor.
I use the Siemens BoltShield, and the reviews are much better. The complaints seem to be from defective units that are DOA or people misunderstanding how the indicators work. Seems a lot of people received pre-owned/defective units from Amazon.
The reviews from Home Depot and Lowe's are also much better.
I read a lot of the Amazon.com one star negative reviews and it was clear, at least to me, that Siemens was being blamed when the blame should have been directed at Amazon.com. Siemens doesn’t sell old outdated SPDs nor does Siemens sell returned used SPDs. It’s obvious that Amazon.com does.
Amazon.com is not an Authorized Dealer, seller, of Siemens SPDs.
Amazon.com is damaging Siemens name, imo.
I don’t know if the Siemens that makes SPDs is the same Siemens Company headquartered in Germany. They are huge around the world.
You would think that Siemens would stop Amazon.com from damaging their name.
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As for Home Depot and Lowe’s they are authorized dealers, sellers, of Siemens SPDs.
They're not doing the shady practices that Amazon.com is doing.
That would explain the better reviews given at Home depot and Lowe’s.
They are selling new current production, manufactured, Siemens SPDs in factory fresh packaging I would imagine.
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