This morning we had a power surge. First one I ever experienced. It knocked out the sub woofer components of my GoldenEar Triton one speakers. In my ignorance I had them plugged into the wall rather than a surge protector. Soooo it blew the amplifiers in the sub woofers. It’s going to be a costly proposition: $500 for the amplifiers plus God knows how much the dealer is going to charge for coming to my house. (He’s very reluctant to do it, wants me to lug the 80 lbs speakers to the store.
Meanwhile, I’m having to listen to bass-less speakers for the foreseeable future.
So, the moral of the story is plug everything into a surge protector.
@ejr1953- There are two related recommendations for WHSPs - Keep any leads short while avoiding sharp curves AND place the WHSP as close to the inlets as possible.
The thinking here is that shunt-mode surge protectors (which all WHSP I know of are) are affected by the resistance (R) and inductance (L) of the wiring between them and the inlet. The higher R and/or L, the higher the effective clamping voltage. Also, the shorter the lead distance(s) the less likely you’ll have an insulation breakthrough or arc to an unwanted path.
Still, you are better off having a WHSP than not so a sub-optimal installation is still much better than no installation at all.
@immatthewj I don't think it matters where in the main panel the surge protectors go, but I'm not an electrician. The electrician who wired our new house placed them in the upper left slots on the main panel. In our previous home, that electrician installed them near the lower right side of the panel. Installing in the panel will protect all the electrical devices in the home.
If you have two spare slots in your main panel, I'd recommend you consider having an electrician install a whole house surge protector. If you don't have two spares, they still can work around that, it's a bit more expensive.
@ejr1953 , does it matter where in the panel those slots are? I thought I read something to the effect of closer to the top the better, but I don't know that I'd have enough wire to move the breakers that exist in those slots down.
If you have two spare slots in your main panel, I'd recommend you consider having an electrician install a whole house surge protector. If you don't have two spares, they still can work around that, it's a bit more expensive.
I’m old enough as well to just not worry about a lot of stuff. Yes, a once in fifty years kind of thing is worth not worrying about.
I remember putting UV filters on my Nikon lens to protect them. What a waste. I stopped that twenty years ago and have never damaged a lens… but got the best the lenses have to offer. I don’t lock my car… I live in a very safe area… and there is nothing inside to steel. Etc. I just don’t sweat that stuff any more.
Yes; that is fantastic, indeed. So, a happy ending, at least!
The fact that every audiophile has a different system, hears differently, has different tastes and different experiences with different gear can complicate the process of choosing whose recommendations to act upon.
I’ve decided not to worry about a new surge. It was the first one I had in my house in the 50 years I’ve lived here.
I’m keeping the speakers plugged into the wall.
I’d most likely do the same thing in your shoes, given the particular chain of events you’ve described.
At the same time, I have to admit I’m curious as to why Golden Ear replaced the amp for free if the problem was with the Furman...
I got a new complimentary amp from GoldenEar and had it installed in the speaker.
I’ve decided not to worry about a new surge. It was the first one I had in my house in the 50 years I’ve lived here.
I’m keeping the speakers plugged into the wall.
@jea48 , I continue to follow this thread with interest. I did go to Lowe’s site and find their listing for the Siemens FirstSurge 140-kA Indoor and Outdoor Surge Protective Device.
After reading the second to last post you made, it got me wondering about this: in the spring of ’20 we had a micro-burst that brought down one of two large pine trees in my front yard. The tree almost could not have came down any more fortuitously than it did--no damage to my house or anyone else’s and only minimal damage to the cap on one of my pickups (which the tip of the pine tree hit). But it did take out the line from the power pole to our house (it did NOT yank the meter out). It also did not damage any equipment or appliances (I don’t think I was manually tripping circuit breakers back then). Was I just extremely lucky?
I use the Siemens BoltShield, and the reviews are much better. The complaints seem to be from defective units that are DOA or people misunderstanding how the indicators work. Seems a lot of people received pre-owned/defective units from Amazon.
The reviews from Home Depot and Lowe's are also much better.
Class D amps may have a linear or a switch-mode supply in front of them. If linear, it’s just like any other amp and inrush current depends on whether the designer put an turn-on limiter on it or not. Larger amps really should have this feature.
If it’s an SMP supply though there’s almost always a smooth, low current ramp on until it stabilizes and turns on the amp portion.
PS - you can tell the difference by weight. A linear supply is going to have a large transformer associated with it.
@ozzy I've had similar experiences with a whole house unit. The one piece of gear I lost was a laptop (Macbook Air with amazing battery life, so sad) which was the only piece of kit in my home that was not further protected by plug in strips.
For safety and reliability reasons whole house surge suppression units have a clamping voltage around 400V from neutral. I can tell you from personal experience they don't do great with sensitive electronics. Lets talk specs though:
A 120V circuit goes up and down 60Vrms from the neutral, which has a peak of ~ 85V .
60Vrms = 60V * square_root(2) = 84Vpk
According to actual third party testing here with a 5kV surge the Furman PST-8 let an additional 40 Volts through. Lets do the math:
It turned a 5,000-volt surge into just 40 volts, thanks in part to a shutdown circuit that turns off all power when it detects a surge. The Furman PST-8 actually let less voltage through in our tests than high-end series-mode surge eliminators that can cost hundreds more.
If you don't have a whole house surge protector like the Seimens FS140, you're doing it wrong. Nothing else will do much, but SurgeX is probably the best outlet style protector.
1 - There are EMI/RFI filters, and wave shaping filters. The first aren’t doing anything below 100 kHz and are in parallel, the latter aren’t doing anything below 3 kHz, which is well above the 50 or 60Hz line frequency. I really don’t understand why people think that the power pole is cleaner than the power they have at their outlet, it often is not. The last thing I want is a super conductor between my amp and the power pole, which is what seems to be the target for audiophiles. I want resistance. I want inductance. Enough at least to reduce noise transmission and ensure surge protectors have time to work.
In order of preference, Furman and Tripp Lite, but please do take a look at the Wirecutter article as the brand AND model matters. Furman without SMP/LiFT is just another power strip.
2 - Well, the type matters because it’s not always on. I use these strictly for my PC, Internet access devices and CPAP. The PS Audio units are essentially the same idea, with Class D outputs (and noise) and very short run time. 🤣 There are UPS with sine wave outputs which are still a lot cheaper than the PS Audio units, but for whatever reason, the sine wave units tend to have a higher failure rate than the stepped voltage output units.
I’m sorry to ask, but any chance you could get a plug in AC tester like this one from Kaiweets or this one from Klein? Something is very wonky. Test your outlet and test the resulting V at the Furman as well.
Of course, if you have a multimeter and know how to use it you should, but these will test the hot, neutral and the Kaiweets will even measure the N to G voltage.
1. Most of power strips with surge protection under Trip Lite, Furman brands referred here has EMI/RFI filters built in. If one wants to protect the amplifiers without adverse impact from the filters, what brand / model do you recommend?
2. Based on my knowledge, all the UPS in the markets disregard the types (standby, online, line-interactive) have AC->DC and DC->AC double conversions which gives you 'dirty' power supply. Aren't you concerned at all getting the poor quality power supply by plugging your hi-fi gears into it, I wonder? Is there audiophile grade UPS out there?
I’ve had the Furman PST-8 for just under 4 years, it is behind the stereo rack out of sight. From reading this thread I decided to check that the "Protection-OK" light was on indicating all is well.
It wasn’t on so the unit is basically a fancy power strip at this time, with "maybe" some unspecified level of power protection left. Funny enough, a much older surge protecter in the same receptacle which also has a power protection light is still working.
Called Furman and as mentioned earlier in this thread (I think this one) there is no internal fuse or reset mechanism. Basically said try unplugging it for 10 minutes but don’t expect much. No luck.
Hate to hear your having such problems. It's hard to believe it would be because of your power conditioner strip.
Did both amps go out on your GE T1's?
I would definitely check the fuse(s) this time.
When one of mine was brand new and first plugged in, it blew a fuse. The light came on, flickered, and then nothing.
FWIW I decided to plug my fronts into a couple of Tripp Lite Isobar 2 plug units I already had. My surround amps got plugged into a Furman AC 215A. I haven't had a chance to really listen to the system to see if I notice any changes. The way my system is set up, it's too hard to really do an A/B comparison. I'll have to rely on my memory. Now days, that's worse than my hearing:)
Has anything changed, with your AC mains power that feeds your equipment? Any more thunderstorms, since you started reading Audiogon Forum posts? No...
What’s that tell you?
@jea48 , that I am becoming neurotic and needlessly paranoid in my old age?
I had the new amps for the subwoofer installed yesterday with the plugs in the wall socket, and things sounded great. I then plugged one of them into the Furman. The light on the amp flickered and then went out. I plugged it back into the wall. Same thing happened
No sound! Evidently the Furman caused the amp to stop working!
Do “high end” power conditioners from Shunyata, PS Audio, Audioquest, etc, provide surge protection equal to the Furman? Or is their surge protection an afterthought compared to their power conditioner function?
I have an Shunyata that is about 6 years old. Should I buy a Furman and plug my Shunyata into the Furman?
As far as power going out and coming right back on, or going out and staying out 5 or 10 minutes or an hour, that happens here in western Pa. all the time, and often there is no apparent reason, such as a T’storm, for it. In the past I did not unplug my equipment, and in the days of yore I did not even trip my breaker. That wave of paranoia started quite recently. Probably since I started reading posts here.
I will say that I have never experienced any component or appliance damage. But I am not arguing with you guys about it. I never started wearing my seat belt until I lost my drivers license for a year when I was 31, and I never was injured or killed in a car wreck, but I was lucky and I know that they save lives. I guess I have been lucky with my appliances and components as well.
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