Suggestion for $10K soup to nuts digital?

Great, looks like you have the Ethernet sorted out. Lots of options under $10K, you should consult a dealer who can give you options based on your existing system and preference like separates (DAC plus streamer) or one box. Since you’re new to digital streaming, I recommend working with a dealer who can afford you home audition and able to walk you through with any setup issues.

As far options, look into Lumin and Aurender, they offer steamer only and streamer plus DAC (one box) options.

I suggest looking hard at what software options are included with or compatible before deciding on the hardware. It won't matter if option A is 1% better sounding than option B if you hate the interface. More specifically, IMHO Roon is fantastic and I wouldn't consider anything that isn't Roon compatible. 

There are plenty of threads detailing varying opinions about that and the proprietary software from various brands. Demoing or watching videos about their use is a wise idea. The best I've seen is this:

https://youtu.be/Qe61rmLKc1E

Cheers,

Spencer

My best selling digital source and DAC is the Aurender N200 paired with the T+A DAC 200. That falls a bit north of $10K, into $12.9K retail, but the combination parallels performance of over $20K rigs. The

DAC 200 has about 90% of the performance of the $38.5K reference T+A SDV 3100 HV streaming DAC preamp. It’s sonically natural, with great body, speed and detail. The soundstage is also considerably larger than many other DACs in its price range. 

The Aurender N200 is one of Aurender’s latest products, which features a very high quality power supply and very low noise architecture which results in a digital signal that has coherency and body without fatigue. It I think is the best performer in its class and has been claimed by many to unseat the even more expensive Aurender N10. 

Again, this combination falls north of your budget. As an alternative, the Aurender A15, also just new to the market in the last few months, is the equivalent of the N200 streamer with the addition of a DAC and volume control. While I would strongly recommend having a good preamp in front of the chain and leaving the A15 to line level output, its DAC performance is incredibly close to that of the T+A DAC 200. The A15 is just a bit more neutral in comparison, with just a bit less body, and a slightly smaller soundstage. This route retails for $8K and leaves you budget for decent cables should you opt for it. 

I’ve compared DACs and streamers for years, and I settled on T+A and Aurender well before I became a dealer for them this year. Both companies make incredibly satisfying products. Searching for T+A DAC 200 or Aurender N200 on these forums will bring up some good threads, and the Aurender A15 is up there with the both of the two and fits in your budget. Happy to chat options in private should you have more questions.

Add the Meitner MA3 streamer/DAC/volume control (optional use) to your list.

@blisshifi   I am confused by the A200 vs N200, only from the perspective that they are the same price yet the A also has an internal DAC. Is that DAc not so good?  What other differences would justify the N200 being the same price? The N200 is on my short list of next upgrades.

“I think is the best performer in its class and has been claimed by many to unseat the even more expensive Aurender N10. ”

@blisshifi

IMO, the revamped Aurender lineup clearly excels over its predecessors in terms of low frequency extension and slam. Both N150 & N200 renders a noticeable edge in terms of perceived detail over N100 and N10 not to mention 2x isolated Ethernet input and super capacitors for safe shut off in case of sudden loss of power in N200. Over the years, I have owned N100, N10, N20 and ACS100 and auditioned W20 and W20SE.

@fthompson251 I can see how it is confusing because they are both “200”. The A200 has pretty much the equivalent of the $3500 N150 streamer only architecture with added DAC, whereas the A15 has the equivalent of the N200’s streamer only architecture. Overall, the N200/A15 has a much improved and robust linear power supply, better isolation, and better circuit design. On the analog output stage of the A15, the implementation is also slightly better than that in the A200 while also offering true balanced outs, where the A200 is single-ended only. What this means is the A15 & N200 has more of the good stuff - body, texture, coherence, and larger soundstage, all while being less fatiguing and “digital-sounding”. It’s enough to make a substantial improvement in my opinion, a true step above, which enables it also to be a more future-proof solution compared to the A200/N150 tier  

I hope that helps. Let me know if you have any more questions.

@lalitk What Aurender unit are you using these days. Your virtual systems point to the ACS100, is that where you’ve landed? That is one I have not heard and would be curious how it performs against something like the N20 or N200. 

@blisshifi

I am currently using ACS100 for exactly what its designed and intended within a high end digital front end. I use ACS100 to rip, store CD rips and DSD downloads. Since Aurender supports ‘RAVENNA’ protocol, I couldn’t have asked for a better NAS server for my Merging +player. Since I wasn’t going to be using its most coveted features, I sold the N20. 

@lalitk Nice!

I highly recommend Innuos Zenith MK3 as the streamer. It is an excellent server, steamer, Cd ripper, and plenty of local storage. If you ever want to get into Roon, it can act not only as a Roon endpoint but also Roon core server.

Secondly, it’s Sense 2.0 software sounds very good — better than Roon according to many people here, including myself. Innuos has been around for a few years now and their products are rock solid with excellent customer support.

Start with Auralic… the Altair G series is exceptional as a Streamer/DAC

Bricasti M1 dac streamer has several Sonic filters, and R2R dac 3 separate linear power supplies , low noise regulation. Sounds excellent ,I would highly recommend a high quality Ethernet cable AQ Diamond is a very good choice 

Anthony at Perrotta consultants. Gives excellent service and good deal especially if you buy a cable from him and power cord AQ Thunder is very good 

check out the reviews , I own Bricasti myself and very very low noise and very natural sounding totally isolated from noise before the M1 dac .and you can probably Get both these $1k cables with the M1 for around your $10 k budget.

Lumin T2 (Used) or the Lumin T3 new! Lumin X1 crazy good and comes with an excellent power supply. Roon Ready. Great price on used one in link.

These kind of discussions somehow often turn into platforms for dealers to promote their products. It would be much more meaningful if dealers sales pitches were separated by the administration from the public's opinions of products they experienced. However I do respect the dealers who openly state their business in their posts. Overall it is too much like reading Stereophile or Absolute sound where they mainly review equipment from companies that spend big bucks advertising in their magazines. There is basically very little objectivity in any of that. Either way, my two cents to the OP is your choices should all be based on how you want to connect to your internet and operate your streamer. Since I want to use my android phone as a remote to operate my streamer, my options immediately eliminate Auralic since it has no app for android. Also Lumin and Aurender are seriously lacking in their android apps to give you the results you would be happy with.  It leaves Innuos with their android sense app wich is highly rated. However, with the setup you listed, if you use an IPad or a computer, your options are much wider, lucky you. Unfortunately that is where this technology is at this point, the streaming system needs to be a good match for your internet feed and how you want to operate your streamer from it. I wish I had your options, but since my internet cable feed is in the main house and I have a separate power feed to my house of stereo, best I can do is wifi extender connected to streamer via ethernet cable. Plus I won't use any  tablets, too big for me to operate in my listening chair, so android phone it is and thankfully my bluesound setup works extremely well. Plenty of details under my system. Glad you are taking the dive for streaming regardless of the complexities, you won't regret it.

Lumin P1 is an all in one. Just add amp. Pre dac streamer all in one. 
 

off the wall suggestion wait for the mark II version of the ps audio Dorectstream dac and their streamer. Coming out next month and month after.  Together about 10k.  30 day tryout. Ted Smith is a genius and will write code updates for years. Directstream can be pre too but does work better with a pre as most do. 

Get a music player.

@baylinor Even as a dealer, I agree with your post. But whether we do so this in a professional capacity or in a personal one, everyone will list the brand ms and products they most advocate for. Some dealers may be doing it to try to capitalize on the situation, but most dealers (including myself) truly believe in the products they carry.

It’s a public forum and everyone should be allowed a say, but if there was some sort of badge or label under our usernames that show if someone is a verified dealer, I would be supportive of that. 

I also agree that the Aurender mobile app had some painful user experience issues, but the Aurender Lite 3 app was just released and is still accepting feedback from the beta community. It has a sexier user interface than the previous version and is a much better user experience overall. 

What about just purchasing software for your Mac - Roon and HQ player? You can then either go straight into a network ready DAC or purchase an endpoint - like Sonore - to "convert" the ethernet into USB for a USB DAC. Roon and HQ player will cost you under $1K to purchase and are loaded with features, including some very high level filters in HQ player. Of course dealers will tell you that "a dedicated streamer is needed" but no one on this planet can demonstrate a rumor of difference across every measurable characteristic nor a plausible mechanism for why the sound could be any different. This is NOT a bits are bits argument - it is a modulated analog signal encoding digital data is a modulated analog signal encoding digital data when the signal is received by a modern receiver argument.

This leaves you $9K for the DAC! That would be a fun for shopping. 

What about just purchasing software for your Mac - Roon and HQ player? You can then either go straight into a network ready DAC or purchase an endpoint - like Sonore - to "convert" the ethernet into USB for a USB DAC. Roon and HQ player will cost you under $1K to purchase and are loaded with features, including some very high level filters in HQ player

I am new to digital, but the last millennium CD player always worked fine.

However the amount of computer noise I had recently using my new DAC as an ADC was astounding.

So I am not sure any old computer makes for a de facto good starting point??

Are those all in one solutions like a TDAI with the Roon player built in worthwhile?
(Or worthwhile is one needs an amp and player?)

miniDSP SHD

@m-db 

Lumin T2 and Roon Nucleus+.  Way under 10K OR used Lumin X1 and Roon Nucleus+ also throw in a NAS drive and you are still under 10K if you get the Lumin T2.

Let us know how you make out with your decision!

@blisshifi 

Thanks about the news for the aurender conductor V3 app for Android, but as it is still in development I will have to wait to see how it is rated once in production. Glad to see they are attempting to address the issues. However I hope they make it feasible to read on phones rather than larger tablet screens. The remote use for me is critical and bluos app has mastered that.

@baylinor Sorry for the confusion. The Aurender Conductotr app is now in production release for the last three days. The beta period is still active for those who want to submit feedback, but it is in a stable public production release now. And yes, legibility is improved for sure.

Before I can consider it, I will have to wait for a sizable amount of reviews. Will stay on the lookout for them.

Interesting to see it does not work for the N200! It's always something in the streaming world...

First begin here-video smallgreencomputer, clean up the signal path,  and then branch out.

https://info.smallgreencomputer.com/optical-isolation-bundle-directions

+1 for the Innuos Zenith Mk 3! Works great, sounds great & the app is logical, easy to use on an iPad .I know this will stir up a lot of reactions but I pair it w/ the Border Patrol DAC for a combo of about $6.5K. For a 50 year turntable guy, who made the plunge into streaming, the combo sounded  better to me than many more expensive & highly touted ones.  
 

For myself & assuming a sound system doesn’t do any egregiously wrong,  listener fatigue is the real test. Do I want to keep listening & enjoying the music or do I feel the need to change it or turn it off altogether?  Along with Qobuz & my sstreaming setup, I have spent many late nights enjoying a virtually unlimited library of fun!

“I know this will stir up a lot of reactions”

@jonwolfpell 

Innuos Zenith Mk 3 w/ the Border Patrol DAC …👍👍

If you are talking soup to nuts digital, I highly recommend the Lyngdorf TDAI-3400. For less than $10K it is all you need to have in front of your speakers. I took mine on trial from a dealer (whom I will gladly name if requested) nearly two years ago and knew within a day it wasn’t going back. Still listen to it and appreciate it every day. 

Does "soup to nuts" not include loudspeakers? Power amp?  *Only* the DAC + streamer, with or without preamp functions?  

Some of the above suggestions (such as the Lumin P1) could cost $10K for the streamer/DAC/preamp alone.  The Lumin P1 is a great suggestion  if it's the only thing you need.

For less than half the price of the P1, consider the Matrix Element X2. The HiFi Rose RS150B runs about $5K.   For these, you'd still need a power amp. If you don't already have one, consider the Benchmark AHB2.  But that wouldn't leave much for speakers.

Another alternative: the Naim Unity Atom for about $3800, which includes amplification.  With ~$6K left after the Unity Atom you have many decent options for loudspeakers, if you need those.  Maybe the KEF LS50, Spendor A7 (a bit over budget),  Magnepans ... depending on your preferences and possibly on what is available to audition in your area.

@m-db  Unsurprisingly (for Agon forum), not a single post with feedback on how to address the incoming ISP aspects.

You will achieve significant downstream upsides by moving away from your cable provider's modem/router and xFi pod. Replace these with self-procured modem > mesh router > mesh satellite.  This essentially mimics / mirrors your current Comcast/Xfinity setup...but will return much better sound quality. 

The above investment still leaves a significant percentage of your 10K budget for a network player and DAC. You will, of course, recoup your investment (over time) as you will not be paying a monthly fee for the Comcast/Xfinity equipment.

Feel free to PM me for specifics.

I have Comcast/Xfinity coaxial cable to their modem/router in an Apple equipped office approximately twenty feet from a remote xFi Pod with 2 ethernet outputs next to my rack. If this source is adequate what would you suggest next with a $10K budget?

@david_ten

Great advise! I intentionally held back any advice on network optimization in my original post. For all we know, the OP may ends up with Node 2 or equivalent which seems to be gold standard for many newbie’s and Vinyl fanatics…LOL!

We both know from our experience, everything matters!

Streamer / Dac I will never ever buy Lumin  Aurender, and Auralic

they’re too overhyped and plainly ugly lol 😂 

|  I am new to digital, but the last millennium CD player always worked fine.

Oh - so you want to also be able to play your physical CDs, rather than rip them to the computer? You have a nice network setup already with a Mac in one room and the stereo in the other. I have the same. I use an optical Rendu as an endpoint to erase any OCD feelings about noise entering the system - deep breathing or therapy likely work for this as well. You can run all the software on your Mac from anywhere. As to the last millennium approach of browsing through your CDs or records, pulling one out, and popping it in the player, no modern software or streamer captures that experience (in my opinion). If you want to stream, then you no choice other than to submit a different intuitive interface with music.

@m-db, you’ve got a nice problem to have. My first suggestion would be to get the best DAC that you can afford. The best DAC that I could afford in my digital music streaming system is a Chord Hugo TT2. It’s a world-class DAC that you can plug two pairs of headphones into simultaneously, and connect to some active bookshelf speakers that would be office appropriate without taking up tons of shelf space. 

For a music server I’d simply get a Roon Nucleus because it has the best user interface on the market right now. Plug an Ethernet cable into it, then run a USB from it to the TT2 and you’re in business. With Apple both units are plug and play. You can pick out almost anything you want to hear using an iPhone, iPad, or a Mac. 

I've only the Weiss 501 DAC to throw into the fray.  This is a transformative piece in all ways.  Hope that is targeted toward your question and goals.

david_ten,   Replace these with self-procured modem > mesh router > mesh satellite. 

David you have my inexperienced attention! I'd love to cut Xfinity off from sucking my blood? Before I spend a dime this needs to be addressed.

tk21,   Does "soup to nuts" not include loudspeakers? Power amp?  *Only* the DAC + streamer, with or without preamp functions? 

Only the streamer, player, DAC, etc. No interest in digital volume attenuation or processing.

I seem to be on the fence in choosing an all-in-one over components questioning the dogma regarding ethernet, USB or i2s connectivity. Then there's my enjoyment of the presentation from pre-digital LP's that I've recorded to file. What's up with that?

M

@m-db To support @david_ten ’s suggestion, I use the Netgear Orbi mesh router and satellite system, and it is very good. Much faster internet on top of helping your digital sound better. From there I use aftermarket ethernet cables with an audiophile switch in between. They really do help with “removing unneeded digital artifacts” but it requires a good DAC and streamer in place to make them worthwhile. Once a good DAC and streamer/server are in place, don’t hesitate to address the internet chain  

Also, many DACs and single-box DAC/streamer/servers, even expensive ones, have built-in attenuators, but it doesn’t necessarily mean those attenuators are any good. The Aurender A15 is very good as a DAC and streamer/server, but you’ll get the best out of it by bypassing volume settings and setting it to line level and having a great-performing standalone preamp in front of it. 

FWIW, I found that network components introduce jitter. Instead of spending $$$ on addressing it upstream I spent $ to address it downstream, right before the digital input to the dac using the iFi SPDIF iPurifier. Worked great for my setup, like getting a serious DAC upgrade.

If you are talking soup to nuts digital, I highly recommend the Lyngdorf TDAI-3400. For less than $10K it is all you need to have in front of your speakers. I took mine on trial from a dealer (whom I will gladly name if requested) nearly two years ago and knew within a day it wasn’t going back. Still listen to it and appreciate it every day.

@jaybarnett I assume you use the RoomPerfect?

Do you commend it for the streaming part, or the RoomPerfect part, or just as the whole enchilada all in one solution?

@m-db did you select something yet?

@holmz - it is the whole enchilada! Ethernet in, speakers (Spatial X5s) out. Tidal and Qobuz via Roon. RoomPerfect makes a subtle but noticeable improvement in my room. It sounds REALLY GOOD! BTW, it can stream wirelessly, but I had occasional momentary dropouts. With ethernet it is 100% stable, even plugged into a remote mesh router.

My journey has lead me to this digital pathway:

1) Roon

2) fiber Ethernet conversion 

3) Shunyata Ethernet 

4) Weiss 501 DAC

Getting rid of Aurender.

A pair of Kef LS50 speakers is an entire system, you can run it in either a hardwired setup, wireless or both. Get a 60 day audition from Crutchfield:

Another great deal from JBL for around $2K, I don’t think you could get the same SQ for $2K going the traditional route. Again the wireless connection is optional, you can also use XLR connections. Can you get an equivalent SQ going passive, absolutely. For $2K? No way Jose:

My main system uses the Innuos Zen Mk3, and Brinkmann Nyquist 2.

I use Roon to stream Qobuz.

My first thoughts were- 'This reminds me of Vinyl'.

Bob

I've done a number of brick and mortar auditions of mid and higher priced combinations. I haven't been encouragingly impressed by the incremental value. I'm hearing differences, just not as much as I was expecting from what I've been reading in general. 

I'm reminded of when class D amplifier users were claiming their choice as 'tube like.'  I simply need to come to terms with myself or until the Logitech Touch lets go.   

The input here has been enlightening and very helpful. Thank you all.      

If Roon, then no Aurender. That’s too bad as their stuff is mighty fine. Can you audition a Lumin T3? It preforms well above it’s price.