I will add my input to all of those who preceded me. I am an avid user of Roon and yes, I compared Qobuz to Tidal and it became obvious in short order that I preferred Qobuz. My Tidal subscription was never renewed. Now the interesting test that I did not do is to do the Qobuz vs Tidal test using Roon with HQPlayer. Has anyone done that comparison? Thanks. 

@chocaholic I feel like Roon Radio is pretty close to Spotify’s artist’s radio that you had mentioned; maybe not as good. Roon Radio usually begins after playing a single track that I had selected or after an album ends - can’t remember if I had set it this way or if this was default. 

Been playing with Spotify and Qobuz. SQ on Qobuz is better, but one of the things I enjoy most about streaming is putting in the name of a favorite artist and listening through a playlist of similar artists, many that I’ve never heard of. A great way to discover new music. For example, on Spotify I’ll put in Jacky Terrason, then select Jacky Terrason Radio. I get a great playlist of similar style jazz. That’s how I discovered Hiromi and Snorre Kirk.

Is it possible to do something similar on Qobuz? I’m not interested in playlists all from the same artist. Rather from lots of artists of similar type.

Until around 2 months ago I was using a modded Node N130 as a Roon endpoint, streaming Qobuz and Tidal. I moved to an Innuos Zen Mini Mkiii, tried that as a Roon Core - it seemed hellbent on downsampling almost everything I played (my DAC is capable if 24/192).

I took my Zen out of Roon Core mode, and tried Sense - all I'll say is I cancelled my Roon subscription pretty quickly. I also cancelled Tidal; I was never really interested in MQA, and for me, Tidal just sounds a little flatter than Qobuz, comparing the same tracks from each platform

I have been using Tidal HiFi ($19.99 plan) for years now and recently got a new 2 channel system and wanted to try something different because I wasn't blown away by the sound with Tidal.  I now have a Prima Luna Evo 400 integrated amp and GoldenEar Triton One.R speakers.  My source is a Bluesound Node streaming over WiFi and then through Music Fidelity MX-DAC (lovely sounding and affordable btw).  I have always been suspicious of MQA because I could never hear a difference with it on or off and don't understand the unfolding process.  I am blown away by the difference Qobuz makes ($12.99 plan).  The soundstage opened up and the mid-bass and bass is much stronger.  I had to dial back the subwoofer sections of my tower speakers because the bottom end was so much stronger.  I think the sound is more balanced now and it sounds stunning.  As far as the interface I think they both leave something to be desired.  I would love to see more options for sorting songs within favorites and playlists.  Also I found that all of my music library was licensed to stream with Qobuz when many songs no longer were with Tidal.  

My 2 cents.  Thanks, James. 

Arriving at a verdict is simple. Try Tidal and Qobuz on your system and compare. Both have free trials. there’s no need for others opinions, like mine, which is that Qobuz works better on my system. Enjoy comparing and then listening!

Amen anza!

@jeffseight I was lucky that Sense came out just before my Roon subscription was set to renew.  I had no reservation choosing Sense's improved SQ over Roon's vast library and search functions.  

And yes Qobuz is better than Tidal by enough I cancelled my Tidal subscription.

In it's simplest form, whether MQA is trying to do a good thing or not, is the fact they are basically DRM's music in a way, creating a proprietary format that requires manufacturers (and ultimately you) to pay them to use it. No thanks 

@fastfreight they literally just added that feature a couple days ago. very nice!

Another feature that's buried in Roon is "Customize album display" In General settings tab. 

For all who use the Innuos/Roon/Qobuz combo as I do

try comparing SQ of the above vs Innuos Sense-i.e Roon off.

It is free if you have not tried it.

Go to my.innuos.com and turn off Roon.

Perhaps other makers besides Innuos have a similar option?

Anxious to hear the responses.

With critical listening from both Tidal and QoBuz, I favor definitely QoBuz over Tidal for sound quality.  The better your digital components, the easier it will be to detect the differences with less noise and jitter...  

Hello @rmdtexas !  Wow thanks!!!  That is exactly what I was initially asking!

Now I did the Roon update, selected prefer Qobuz, and selected rate MQA as below CD quality but above lossy.  I would never have seen that, so very very much appreciated.  I hope this helps others, and look forward to continuing conversations of achieving great streaming quality!  Ken

as of their latest build, Roon does allow you to select a preferred streaming service.

https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/streaming-content-preferences

a more balanced view

always helpful to hear the various and numerous qualified opinions...

MQA is a scam. See expose by Goldensound:

moonwatcher

... I just wish I could get the same "data" exactly as it would be from a commercially released Redbook CD of the same title. If Deezer or Qobuz provides that, I’ll be a happy camper. I note in Qobuz's advertising blurb on their website:  "Currently, Qobuz has more than 240,000 albums in Hi-Res audio quality. This collection is constantly being added to with new releases and re-issues. In addition, Qobuz offers over 80 million tracks in lossless CD quality."

Yes, Qobuz files are lossless CD quality. Or better. No doubt about it.

This has been an awesome conversation and really expanded to not only file quality, but how to get the best out of our digital experience. As @ghdprentice nicely stated, with effort and improvements we can get amazing sound from digital.  And yes, at a high level, Tidal is very close to Qobuz most of the time.  As I read everyone's histories and experiences with digital, It really closely mirrors mine.

Didn't we all start with a Node?  It was so much better than airplaying my itunes to apple TV.  I had a Node in one system,  a Power Node in another, and a Pulse 2 in my office.  Then Roon , with quickly a lifetime subscription.  I visited a dealer looking at a Parasound Hint integrated, with built in DAC.  Sounded fine. Until  he switched to an Esoteric DAC and I was blown away.  Sounded like completely different amp and speakers...it was all the streamer and DAC! The rabbit hole opened widely in front of me and for the next two years I searched for that sound.

I ended up with amazing Audionet Pre and Max Amps, And upgraded my DAC to first a PS Audio Direct Stream, and then an Auralic Vega G2 (streamer and DAC). This was a nice improvement.  Then I demoed the Mola Mola Tambaqui and wanted it within 60 seconds.  So much more open and complete, but natural and easy to love.  Separate streamer?  Never even heard of it or understood it.  After all, my Tambaqui (and previous Auralic and even also previous PS Audio all had built in streamers).  What?  But my dealer had never led me astray, and explained the benefits of a separate streamer.  As one fellow Agonner said to me, 'Ken you have a Lamborghini for a DAC and are feeding it regular gas!'.  So enter the Auralic Aries G2.1 streamer with usb output to my Tambaqui, all with nice Kubala- Sosna cables. Guess what?  Further improvements, more open, more natural. Everything does matter. My Muon streaming system arrived last night and I Love it also...It is home playing in all day for me.  Nick at Network Acoustics went through my system with me and gave me specific advice.  Great guy.  Add him to GTT audio for great support.  Yes it is all for the music and our audio Nirvana.  Anyone around Baltimore / Washington is welcome for a visit!

And guess what?  My Sean Jacobs custom power supply is coming soon for my Auralic Aries!

@cleeds

Indeed files altered with MQA are not "bit-perfect". That was Neil Young’s issue with the way they were advertising his music. If they were altered in anyway, then they weren’t HIS "studio masters". I wish MQA would go away. There’s been lots of discussion regarding it and most technical people (engineers) who have tested it with measuring equipment says that it does alter the files, and most damning, they say only a bat could hear the sight difference. And people can argue all day if the difference is somehow "better" than the original.

If Tidal is selling their CD quality Hi-Fi tier and providing downsampled files with MQA stripped out then yeah, they might sound OK (and they do) but once again, they aren’t "bit-perfect" compared to the commercially released Redbook CD.

High resolution files don’t mean much to me unless they were recorded originally in DSD. (When I record live concerts to put on the Internet Live Music Archive I do use 24-bit/48Khz PCM to push down the noise floor a bit). I’m happy with CD quality for everything else, (hence my disdain for Spotify lying to us all last year). I just wish I could get the same "data" exactly as it would be from a commercially released Redbook CD of the same title.

If Deezer or Qobuz provides that, I’ll be a happy camper. Looking forward to trying Qobuz.

I note in Qobuz's advertising blurb on their website:  "Currently, Qobuz has more than 240,000 albums in Hi-Res audio quality. This collection is constantly being added to with new releases and re-issues. In addition, Qobuz offers over 80 million tracks in lossless CD quality."

@ghdprentice  "

There is a point with really great equipment that it all sounds pretty great… then one versus the other is splitting the difference between really really good and really good.

And it's a point that many audiophiles, as obsessed as we can tend to be, sometimes forget... the point to enjoy the music; the music is the endpoint, not the gear.

@ghdprentice Very nicely stated and quite true!

I have had Tidal and Qobuz… with streamers that unfolded MQA and not. To me what this revealed was that the quality of the streamer is of the highest importance. When you have a true audiophile streamer it will produce sound quality equal or better than red book CD and analog… MQA can sound good, red book can sound good… higher resolution and analog can sound good or great. 
 

There is a point with really great equipment that it all sounds pretty great… then one versus the other is splitting the difference between really really good and really good.

I am new to streaming. Have a Good Dac And Music player.

Was using Qobuz sounded Hifi with the treble turned way up, almost gave up on the streamer.

Decided to download Tidal- 100% Better Sounds Like a good audio system.

Not saying anything bad about anything, This boy is enjoying tidal

Bryston DAC Player

@moonwatcher 

😊👍

@ghdprentice I read a posting on another forum by a guy (a musician) who had uploaded his files to Deezer and then downloaded them and he found they were indeed "bit-perfect" without any mumbo-jumbo changes.  Perhaps Qobuz is the same. 

I like Tidal's interface and catalog just fine, (and the Tidal Connect app which is being supported by more streamers) but I've read where the Hi-Fi tier of CD quality often gets you files that had MQA but with it stripped out. They sound OK, but are not "bit-perfect". 

I love my CD player and will always use it as long as it lasts, but streaming is a great tool for music discovery and general listening.  Would be nice to know exactly what we are getting for our money from the various services - and if they are altering the music in any way. Thanks. I'll give Qobuz a try soon. 

@moonwatcher

I have made direct comparisons between red book CD, the same Qobuz recording, files located locally… exact same sound quality… however Qobuz is frequently better because the have 1/2 million high Rez albums. My DAC is my CD player… and my preamp allows volume leveling between sources.

Having said that… the streamer and DAC make the biggest difference in the sound you get. My system is very good, so I can hear subtitle differences in sources. But of course if you are not changing your equipment, tyou are going to get the best sound from Qobuz.

@kray thank you. I may have to give Qobuz a try then. Just wish there was a "Qobuz Connect" app that streamers could have. Such an app makes life much easier when you can pass off the stream.  Maybe one day...

@moonwatcher Yes Qobuz supports bit-perfect. and it's high-res files 24/192 are lossless. as opposed to MQA lossy snake oil 

Now the can of worms is how do we know the 24/192 version is not a resampled 16/44 file, etc. the industry as a whole leaves a lot to be desired regarding transparency on this. 

I think some have analyzed files bought from Qobuz to show they are legit. 

too much trouble/work honestly, just enjoy! (at least Qobuz)

Doesn't Deezer provide "bit-perfect" data?  At least at CD quality? I'd rather have CD quality that way than higher resolution files that have snake oil done to them. Is there anyway for us to know?  Has anyone with proper equipment ever done a comparison between the steaming services to find out?  We know Spotify's lossy streams are obviously NOT CD quality. I wasted all last year on their lossless service to roll out.  Ended up quitting them in February and will NEVER go back due to their lying. Do any of the others advertize "bit-perfect"? Qobuz? 

@lordrootman 

Thanks for the link re Apple Music transfer app. Eager to try it.

I listen to mostly TIDAL even though I have Qobuz. The TIDAL MY MIX feature is killer and for me both services sound good enough.

BTW - Maybe this was figured out in the posts above. When I want to filter TIDAL or Qobuz in ROON I go to MY ALBUMS and select FOCUS. Scroll to the right for STORAGE LOCATIONS and select the location(s) that you want. A very useful feature for me since I have 5 locations, including TIDAL and Qobuz.

EDIT: I seem to have misread the question. It was about defaulting to Qobuz. Though my filter approach may work. Filter first with only Qobuz and if you cannot find want you want, expand the filter to include Tidal.

@fastfreight - It's a bit of a pain but you can select Qobuz on Roon via the "versions" feature. Problem is you have to click on "versions" & select Qobuz each time you choose an album to listen too. 

Thanks @jjss49 

i guess it is a feature request for Roon, to have a preference for which service to pick first.  Roon will even default to a lower resolution Tidal version over a higher resolution Qobuz track.

Thanks @jjss49 

i guess it is a feature request for Roon, to have a preference for which service to pick first.  Roon will even default to a lower resolution Tidal version over a higher resolution Qobuz track.

@fastfreight

have a happy 4th!

as answered earlier the only sure way to not have tidal cuts chosen by roon is to deactivate tidal... i know, goofy -- and for such a purported superman software like roon you would think they would code in this feature...

@fastfreight 

And happy 4th to you and yours.

Totally agree jss49.  I think I started the thread something like that…Now can Roon be set to point to Qobuz vs.Tidal by preference? [without eliminating Tidal]?  It does seem to default to Tidal selections in Roon Radio.  Happy 4th everyone!
🎇

Totally agree jss49.  I think I started the thread something like that..only to endure the lectures….  Now can Roon be set to point to Qobuz vs.Tidal by preference? [without eliminating Tidal]?  It does seem to default to Tidal selections in Roon Radio.  Happy 4th everyone!
🎇

my take

qobuz sound infinitesimally better than tidal... both are very very good

tidal has a larger library than qobuz at least for nonclassical music but qobuz selection is hardly limiting

mqa music on tidal has very high variability in sound quality, some are really excellent though

i use roon, like it alot, don’t think it degrades sound quality

@larry5729 Qobuz is just as easy to use as Tidal. I don’t think I came across anything higher than 24/192 on Qobuz. 

FWIW, my DAC doesn’t do MQA so I had disabled it in my Lumin streamer and I am just letting the Roon core decode and render for my Tidal streaming. Sometimes Roon radio queues up a great song that’s only available on Tidal. 

Thanks Sonic.  One quick question.  What is the highest resolution Qobuzz offers.  I know when I hooked up my BlueSound to my amp by way I gave up the potential of hearing up to 24/192.  If Qobuzz doesn’t limit their customers then I will give Qobuzz a try.  I was told Qobuzz was not as easy to use as Tidal.  I think MQA is most likely just a gate keeper.  I am just here to learn.  Thanks.

Best app to transfer playlist from all the streaming services 

@larry5729 you are correct that Qobuz doesn’t offer MQA, but most people feel that’s a plus for Qobuz as MQA requires multiple unfolding and, as I understand it, MQA alters the original content to what some sound engineers think it “should” sound like.  No thanks.  Throw in that most people here prefer Qobuz’s sound quality, offers a ton more hi-res tracks, is cheaper (or at least it was when I subscribed), and to me has a better user interface.  You can try it for free so why not?  I did and never went back to Tidal and their silly MQA total sham.  Just my experience FWIW. 

I was not aware QObuz had a larger library than Tidal.  I have a BluSound Node 2i and like the layout of Tidal.  I believe Qobuzz does not have MQA.  I wonder what the resolution is for Qobuzz?  

I agree that Qobuz sounds better than Tidal. I also really like the option to buy hi res downloads at a discount with the Studio Sublime subscription.

On a side note, I learned that you can export your Roon playlists to Excel.  My Nucleus crashed, and I was not able to recover from my backup due to 'corrupt database'.  So I later learned that in addition to a back-up, it is good to export your playlists.  You must 'select all' to allow the export tab to appear in Roon.  A great idea in case you loose your Roon data and need to rebuild you obscure favorites! 

Infuriated by MQA two years ago, I switched to Qobuz from Tidal and never looked back. Agree that Apple sounds better than it's given credit for, and anyhow my old iTunes/Apple Music playlist can never be replicated. But that plays only on my backup system. Some rainy day (or pixie dust day, which seems no less likely) I'll get around to loading that playlist into Aurender for comparison with Qobuz and good streaming radio sources.

There is info on Qobuz and Soundiiz along with tutorials here.

I have extensive playlists that I made in the pre-streaming era. I tried Soundiiz to export to Qobuz, but it really didn't work well and I gave up on Soundiiz.

Great info on this topic. I use Bluesound with Tidal as my service, but this has made me interested in perhaps a trial of Qobuz... I've built up quite a collection of "favorites" in Tidal which I would hate to rebuild on another service. On the Qobuz site it says:

Yes, you can import your playlists created on other streaming platforms thanks to the Soundiiz tool.

When you click the link it takes you to a page in French, with no option for English. Can anyone relate their knowledge or experience with particular optionality? 

Interesting responses thanks.  I feel Qobuz definitely a bit better; most do. But I still value selections on Tidal which are not available on Qobuz.