Streamer wanted

Eh,  see above. 

Really, the difference in SQ isn’t even close. The Arcam is fuller, richer and more detailed with much better soundstaging. I guess I didn’t realize how good I had it.
I don’t know why they discontinued it. Probably because of the incompatibility problems.

Well, I received the Node 2i and compared it with the Arcam RPlay. With the new DAC thrown into the mix, preliminary tests show the results are the same as with my previous comparison. Comparing the same selections, the Node, even in hi res format, doesn’t sound as good as the Arcam in normal resolution.
I’ll do more testing to make sure, but the odds are I’ll return the Bluesound, and hold on to the Arcam.

Cm6td,

Thank you for your detailed post.
unfortunately, I HAVE tried the “critical listening mode” option and I’m told that my device is incompatible.

I don’t know if this helps, and I don’t own the product myself, but the Arcam rPlay works with the DTS Play-Fi app, which has a critical listening mode that is supposed to allow you to listen to hi-res audio.

From Arcam: "NOTE: Files up to 16-bit/48 kHz are streamed without compression or transcoding. High resolution audio files (24-bit/192kHz), are down-sampled to 16-bit/48kHz for transmission. This allows for the most reliable streaming experience over Wi-Fi to multiple speakers. For those who wish to hear high resolution audio as originally intended, Critical Listening mode in the DTS Play-Fi app will enable native rendering of high resolution files up to 24/96, without down-sampling or network synchronization adjustment. In this way, audio files retain their original audio integrity. For more details regarding the Critical Listening mode please refer to https://play-fi.com/faq/entry/critical-listening-mode"


From DTS: "Critical Listening Mode

Play-Fi will normally play back all files it supports in their native formats and encoding. High resolution files are a special case, and though they are not transcoded, they are down-sampled to CD quality to maintain stream and network performance.

For those who wish to hear high resolution audio as originally intended, Critical Listening mode will enable native rendering of high resolution files up to 24/192, with no down-sampling or network synchronization adjustment. In this way, audio files retain their original audio integrity.

Since the high resolution audio files are not down-sampled in this mode, they will remain exceptionally large. We support all modes over standard Wi-Fi, including Critical Listening, but a wired connection may improve the experience for those with network issues.

Enabling Critical Listening Mode. Before selecting a Play-Fi product, tap the Hi-Res button in the top bar of the zone module. This will change the list to display the Play-Fi products that are compatible with this mode. Most Play-Fi products support Critical Listening, but if you’d like to know more about your product, contact info for your brand may be found on the main Knowledge Base page."

The Arcam and DTS instructions disagree about how high the resolution can go, but I wonder if the Arcam instructions might have a typo. Anyway, I think it would be worth giving this a try if you haven’t already done so.

I have the Matrix Mini-I-3 Pro and it has very good streaming options. I am about to pack it up today and send to my buddy so he does not annoy me with he crappy music listening options. The unit has Apple AirPlay2, ROON READY, WiFi, Ethernet, Bluetooth for streaming. It also has a cool GUI showing the album being played.

The great thing about this DAC is that is is low priced (I paid $750 on Black Friday), it is very easy to use for non-audiophiles such as my buddy. He likely won’t get ROON but he will be able to play his music and computer audio via AirPlay2 using his iPhone, mostly YouTube.

You need Ethernet connectivity for all the best features to work on the Mini. WiFi restricts some features such as displaying the album image on the GUI. WiFi works well until it does not and then things need to be shut down and restarted. So WiFi is not recommended by me.

The DAC is not as good as my ESS Benchmark DAC3B or my AMT3SE tube DAC but it is comparable to the internal ESS DAC of my KRELL K-300i integrated (a $1000 option).

The Mini was used mainly by me with a Topping A90 headphone amp and Meze Empy headphones. I was shocked at the quality of this setup for the price I paid. Almost as good as my Benchmark HPA4 + DAC3B with the Meze Empy.

https://soundnews.net/sources/dacs/matrix-audio-mini-i-pro-3-third-time-s-a-charm/

Interesting post. I wonder if anyone has tested the Matrix Audio mini I-pro 3. It is a bit over $1000. Compared to the Arcam ST60, it has a USB input, it is already already Roon certified, and it has a similar DAC (ESS9038Q2M versus the Arcam’s ESS9038K2M). The only disadvantage is that it is not a uPnP Streamer.

https://www.matrix-digi.com/en/products/489.html

I have the Cambridge Audio CNX V2. Paid $700 on ebay for a refurbished unit. Great unit,  greater deal and I could not be happier using it as my only source for my Acoustat 33's w/ Roy E. Rebuilt TNT200 converted Monoblocks..

Unfortunately, my RPlay Arcam model, although ostensibly designed with hi res,
has been incompatible with my DACs.  Otherwise, the sound is quite impressive.

As an owner of the Arcam st60, I can say that it is a solid piece that checks “almost” all of the boxes one would want.  It has chrome cast built in, will do tidal MQA decoding(important to me), Spotify connect, upnp, and digital in (toslink & coax). It also works with Roon. Has single ended and balanced (important to me) outputs, digital outs if you don’t like the “sound” of the unit(you can adjust the ESS filters on it) and want to run your own dac.  It can also act as a preamp if you’re only running streaming/digital as a source.  The music life application that comes with it is nothing fancy but runs without hiccups. My only “issue” with it is lack of a usb input.  Now in Arcam’s defense it is a “streamer” and not a DAC, but if you’re going to include digital in’s...   I’ve owned or have used streamers from Marantz, blue sound, And the RPi4.  I can say without a doubt I’m very happy with the sound from the Arcam.  

Spiritofradio,

I appreciate your missing me.
Since I got a wonderful DAC (Benchmark) and high res audio disc digital extractor (GeerFab,) I’ve been more in the digital realm and neglecting records lately. As the novelty wears off, I’ll be getting back to them.
As far as the streamer goes, I’ll see if the Node 2i is any better with the Benchmark than it was with the previous DAC. I’m actually fairly pleased with how good a job WiFi does. I just want to investigate hi res streaming which my Arcam is incapable of.

I have the Node 2i connected to a Schiit Audio Loki Mini. 

@rvpiano, Hey, we miss you over at the “What’s on your Turntable” thread.  Hope you’ll post there more often.  
In answer to your question here, I believe that it will eventually become important to you to ditch wifi; then, you will learn that you should have fiber optic and not just (CAT whatever) between your modem and/or an audio-purposed built switch and your streamer (whichever/whatever your streamer is); and then, after that it will become important for you to have fiber optic between your streamer and your DAC (that is if you don’t want your streamer and DAC in the same box).  Until more affordable DAC manufacturers put connections on their products like the fanciest do, you can either convert this link to fiber with adapters or go with good USB from streamer to your favorite asynchronous USB DAC.  
You have received a couple of (very reasonable cost) suggestion here that get you most of the way there to what are inevitably important ways of your looking at  and listening to digital. 
In the mean time if you just want a WAY better coax streamer consider this:

https://en.wattson.audio/emerson
(The “Digital one”)

explained/reviewed here:

https://youtu.be/p-HeiVfAz4w

if your favorite dac has USB go with the optical setup recommended by other members above.  

Also, consider getting Roon.  But that is a separate thing.  
The people on here recommending Bluesound are either afflicted with hearing loss or don’t have systems as resolving as yours.  You already know even Arcam beats it with your DAC.  Bluesound is fine for a second system or something but i don’t believe it’s what your after for your level of listening.  

I am also about to order a Bluesound Node2i. My reasons are:
I have a great DAC,
I will use streaming for exploration of new music,
has what seems to be an easy interface and apt for my phone,
the reasonable cost. 

Forgive me if someone already posted. I have the NAD C 658. For $1600 it’s a great device. (You may be able to find it a bit cheaper if you have a local store.) I only use the streaming and DAC features as it supports MQA. And it offers XLR balanced (pre-out) if needed. (I have it balanced connected to a McIntosh MA352.) You may not have any interest in MQA but when I "A-B" tested a few, I liked the option (if? when?) MQA grows. It is BlueOS. One very brief review https://www.whathifi.com/us/best-buys/streaming/best-music-streamers And as several have noted, Hans Beekhuyzen reviews, he likes it a lot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c04EJODliww
https://www.whathifi.com/us/reviews/nad-c-658
https://nadelectronics.com/nad-announces-versatile-c-658-bluos-streaming-dac/
Happy listening!

I ordered the Node 2i.

I think you should still consider the Sonore opticalRendu. Small Green Computers sell the bundle (opticalRendu + power supply + converter + fiber optic cable) for $700 less than the Lumin UI Mini, and IMO provides superior sound quality. Otherwise, the Node 2i is a solid choice as well. Good luck and enjoy the music :)

Ianrmack,

Sorry, I neglected to mention I’m using a Benchmark DAC 3B.
I may retry the Bluesound with it, as the last time I used the BS, it was with a different DAC.

Love the Bluesound 2i. Works great with Amazon (for me, at least). Connected to a decent DAC and ethernet cable, it sounds very good, even if my cd's and vinyl sound better. But for $549 it's a tremendous bargain.

Arcam has a better DAC but a total crap user interface.

@rvpaino: not sure what youre looking for and your process seems random.
On one hand, you dropped $2K on a Lumin then cancelled it. Then, OTOH, you bash the $500 BS without even trying to find the right DAC for it that would actually get you to around $2K and some righteous SQ.

Chord Qutest, Benchmark, Mytek...get a DAC, man.
Plus, do some research!

Yiu get what you give you and your details and goals are hidden hence your results here are dubious.

Youre making apples/bananas comparisons.

I canceled my order
I determined that the Lumin is too sophisticated for my needs. I only want a streamer that is hi res capable (which for whatever reason my Arcam RPlay is not) and has improved SQ. I don’t need to access stored files or transfer a CD collection. Also, I learned that I would need an external WiFi source to run the Lumin. I don’t want to make this so complicated.
So, I’m just looking for a simple streamer with better sound quality.
I would consider retrying the Bluesound because I know it is hi res capable, but when I made a head to head comparison with my Arcam, the Arcam sounded better.
.

Teac NT-505 would be bigger animal at this price range. 

@rvpiano -- just wondering if you ordered the U1 Mini with an external power supply. My friend who owns the U1 Mini mentioned that adding one had a pretty substantial improvement in performance. I know some dealers can modify the unit to make it work with something like the sbooster. 

My upgrade from streaming from a Dell laptop to my current Roon Nucleus Plus server was one of the best improvements in my system sound quality.  The USB port on the server is "dead quiet" and pairs really well with my DAC and external hard drive.  One of my friends has the Roon Nucleus server and (to me) it has the same fine sound quality and is in the price range you quoted.

One of the great things about the Roon servers is that they come configured with the Roon core and all you'd need to do is add an Android or iOS or Windows app to control it (or all three).  Mine has been "rock solid" with backups and updates.

+1 on the Raspberry Pi 4 with either Ropiee or Volumio  -- and I do own the Metrum Ambre and the Lumin U1 Mini

As a Streamer ONLY you’ll be hard pressed to find better than a (tweaked) Node2i (upgraded power cord, coax, ethernet cable) without spending big $$$. I was hot for a Lumin U1 Mini until I had the opportunity to play with it. Beautiful little unit however I did not hear enough of a difference to justify $2K and the software seemed buggy. 

My experience with interface:
Amazon Music via bluetooth:  easy functionality, not as good as ethernet cable
Spotify just went HiRez by the way. 

Bluesound Node 2i:  Interface doesn't work completely with Amazon but once you get around the quirks, it's OK.  I find the streamer fine but added a DAC and got improved sound
Other streamers:  Interface is downhill from Bluesound.  I am going by what I read FWIW. 

Roon:  Fixes interface issues but costs every month. 

Arguments about need for expensive streamers are like CD vs VINYL, TUBE vs SS.  Regardless it is a great way to find and listen to about any song available. 

I’ve audited the bluesound node 2i and was quite disappointed. Maybe I shouldn’t be, given the price tag? I then tested the CA CXN and the CA Azure 851n. I’ve chosen the Azur 851N and can only highly recommend it. When fed quality source material, it competes quite well with my LP12. It also fits nicely in your budget.

However, if you're only going to use it as streamer (and not the DAC), it might be overkill. A simpler model with the same functions might fit your requirements just as well. I'm happy with the whole package: streamer, DAC, and app. I'm using Qobuz and Roon, so my user interface is mostly Roon.

Full setup: CA Azure 851N, Linn Klimax (analog generation), Harbeth P3ESR.

I used to love Arcam in its early days (Alpha 9, Alpha One), but got quite annoyed with their quality issues. I can’t speak for their current quality.

Thanks

Best of luck to you.

All interesting comments, but I’m going to try the streamer I ordered and if it isn’t an improvement, I have 60 days to return it and get my money back.

@docknow I respect what you say above, and relate to your descriptions.  Makes me anxious to try some options.  I could see galvanic isolation keeping analog noise from propagating.   I've just been so impressed with the sound I am getting from FLAC data and Qobuz going through laptop to USB to DAC.  Thanks for sharing your experience.

@electroslacker My Roon Nucleus was a clear upgrade in sound quality from a 15" MacBook Pro.  The noise floor that I wasn't even aware of with the MBP just dropped away.  I could never hear a difference between the MBP running on AC or the battery.  Further improvement occurred recently with the addition of an LPS.  I think perfect bits were being transferred by the MBP, as nothing in the music above the noise floor changed with the Nucleus.  Same tonality, dynamics, etc.; there was just more low level information: the tails of the notes, the hall, the squeak of the floor of the studio or stage, etc.

@audioguy85 The difference between Redbook and hi-res is quite audible.  I can also clearly hear the improvement of 192kHz over 96kHz when comparing albums with the same mastering.  Good 192kHz can rival or surpass vinyl, due to the lack of surface noise and the rock steady pitches of the notes, something that vinyl has a problem with due to off-center record holes.

Don’t waste your money... all you need is a cheap grace digital link...$159 Amazon. Most people cannot hear a difference between cd 16/44 and so called hi-res. Although the grace will do hi-res. Spend the money on an external dac. Even then, you need nothing more than the musical fidelity v90 dac, if you can still find one new, $299. Spending any more on either is a total waste of money, because none of it will ever sound like a quality recorded LP.

+1 @electroslacker

One thing that's never mentioned is that laptops run fine off of battery power.  No AC issues. For less than $1500 you can have a truly high-end Windows laptop, that is absolutely overkill at getting bit-perfect datastreams from network servers to an external DAC.

I have mine set to "continuously on," keep the lid shut (no display noise), run Windows remotely from a phone or tablet, and happily do Office, browse the net or social media while listening to pristine sound.  I've yet to be convinced that a dedicated streamer would improve the sound quality.  When I hear it, I'll accept it, but with fully balanced electronics and cabling, I turn the volume sky high and there's nothing but blackness from which stunning music emerges.

Audiophillia is centered on constantly improving the system, and I'm a full-fledged member, but getting digital data to a DAC is not endlessly improvable.  We may be past the point of solved.

Good evening. 
I see you are interested in a streamer. I will post this week. My Elac set for sale is a streamer and 2 prea amp 1 for each speaker.  Reason for selling I inherit in a will. Plus I have the tekton speaker with it. If interested let me know

There are gobs of them.
Features (DSP, BT, headphone amp, LPS etc.)
Streaming services desired?
Outputs?
"Plug n play" ness?
Play local files via USB?
Radio stations?
Ease of control app(s)?

Unless you’re paying for Roon avoid ultraRendu, SOtM, & Ropieee.

Good luck with the Lumin app.  
All 2.5 stars of it.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.luminmusic.lumincontroller

Cambridge Audio has a lousy, almost unusable app so give it a miss until they come up with something better or , of course, subscribe to Roon.

So much music, so little time. 

Paying that much for a streamer is waste of money, IMHO!! Buy a Raspberry Pi 4 and load Volumio or RopieeeXL on it. Cost will be less than $100. 

Cracks me up when I see people actually argue against streaming. We’re in the golden age of music discovery and streaming gave it to us. Doesn’t matter if you like CDs or vinyl more. Streaming is for discovery!

Don't waste your money! Stick to Cd! Streaming quality is still not as good as CD's.

OP -- Since you already made a decision, it's somewhat of a moot point, but I thought I'd share my experience with you anyways. Last year, I compared an Innuos Zen Mini MK3 with my Bluesound Node 2i, and really couldn't tell much of a difference. I was told that to make the Zen Mini reach its full potential I had to invest another $600 in their power supply. I then auditioned a Sonore Optical Rendu, and thought it was quite a bit better than both the Node 2i and the Zen Mini. The biggest difference was a reduced noise floor that let me hear more details and offered a blacker ground which I really loved. It also felt it was a bit less 'digital' than the other two. I ended up buying it of course.

A few weeks ago, I was looking for another streamer for my second system. A good friend of mine let me borrow his Lumin U1 Mini so we got to compare it with the opticalRendu in my system. It's a great unit, but we both agreed that the opticalRendu was slightly better. Again, the most noticeable difference was the lower noise floor. I hope you've bought your U1 Mini configured with an external power supply. Good luck and enjoy the music!

Patrick,

I’m streaming Qobuz and Idagio with a WiFi connection using an iPad.  As I’ve said, I don’t want a built-in DAC, and I’m not ripping stored music or CDs.  No Roon.
The Lumin Mini seems to fit the bill.

You didn’t offer much info. What will you be streaming? Amazon, Tidal, Qobuz or other HD service? Pandora etc? Do you need to stream wirelessly? Bluesound Node 2i does that, but many streamers have to be wired with ethernet (they don’t do bluetooth), so you’d need an ethernet connection to the streamer.

Streaming ripped music stored onboard or on an external HDD/NAS? Do you want to use Roon?

Do you want one with a built-in DAC or do you have a DAC?

How important is the native app (for phone and tablet control? They vary widely. I use the Tidal app (good) on phone, tablet and desktop, or ROON. The native apps from different mfrs get varying reviews (Audender Conductor, which you’re locked in to using with their unit) gets mixed reviews. Innuos is launching their own app which they say will be great (we’ll see). BlueOS gets mixed reviews.

I ordered the Lumin mini.
We’ll see (or hear) how it sounds!

I've compared a high end streamer to an old Macbook Pro with 3 different DACs.  One DAC sounded better with the high end streamer, another DAC sounded better on the Macbook while the 3rd DAC seemed to not care which streamer was used, they both sounded good.  The point I am making is you have to listen yourself with your equipment as I was really surprised a $4000+ streamer sounded not as good as an old Macbook on my current favorite DAC.

I own the Innuos mini.  Nice step up from a sonos port.

Aurender n100 used.

I have the N100c and I'm stunned at how good it sounds.