Streamer only

To the OP, you have a very good system. But it sounds like streaming is a "new fangled" idea to you. Perhaps you have a nice vinyl set up or play a lot of CDs. 

Given that streaming will likely "take hold" and you will love it and its convenience, I'd suggest getting at least a Bluesound Node (the ones with USB out if you need that).  Nothing wrong with the WiiM products for their prices - I have a couple of them in various rooms and one in my garage. They work excellently and their software puts that provided with some $4000 streamers to shame. 

The Node can always be sold or repurposed or given to an interested relative later on when you decide to get "something" better. Or you might be perfectly happy with the Node feeding your integrated and call it a day. 

You didn't mention if you have ethernet near your stereo or will have to use Wi-Fi. If Wi-Fi, beware the iFi Zen. Unless iFi has done anything to fix it in the last year or so, it has a lot of bad online reviews for its frustrating connectivity that drops often.

Ironically the extremely cheap ($99) WiiM Mini in my garage NEVER drops its signal.  

Have fun! You'll be discovering a lot of new music to enjoy. 

One thing people seem to ignore (correct me please if I am wrong) is that to use the "better" clock in your external DAC over the one in a "cheap" streamer, you must use asynchronous USB or I2S, otherwise the clock in the streamer is doing the "driving". The use of Toslink optical or coax outputs from a streamer limits you to however good the clock in the streamer is. At least this is what Hans Beekhuyzen implied in a recent YouTube video of his.

The thing is, there aren’t many "cheap" streamers that have USB out other than those particular models of the Node that I’m aware of. (Not counting any home brewed, noisy, Raspberry Pi streamers). Figure that the clock in the Node X or his integrated is better than one in any of the WiiMs.

Roon Nucleus for $750 on HIFI shark.

@moonwatcher +1

I have the allo DigiOne Signature Streamer with a Shanti LPS. Do you hear a big difference between the DigiOne and your high end streamer? 

Thanks,

Steve

I am using the SMSL SD-9 as a streamer only. It also decodes MQA and sends it to your DAC already decoded. It supports Tidal and Qobuz and has a sods card slot that you can put a 256 GB memory card. It costs 399 dollars and sounds great. I am using it to feed a Musicians Pegasus DAC connected to a Wired 4 Sound STI-500 to Magnepan LRS speakers. It sound very detailed and reveals all the finer points in the music. It also connects to the internet using wireless WiFi. 

I’m using the Cambridge MXN10 into an Audio Research Reference CD9 cd player operated as a DAC. It cost $360 and sounds incredible.

I am using the Aurrender W20SE ($22K) streamer through the Audio Research Reference CD9SE as DAC and it sounds as good as my very good vinyl leg. Each step from a Mac book, to inexpensive streamer, to a $3K $5K, $10K, $13K, to my W20SE provided a very substantial improvement in sound quality, each worthy of the investment.

Going to add to the comments pile here because sometimes people are looking for an answer to their question, not justification for what others are doing.

First, forget using any computer. Streamers are too good and too cheap not to utilize them and any good system will easily show the difference in improvement.

Generally, I side with lower priced streamers for most. I have a high end tube monoblock system using a WiiM Pro with an external LPS for it. That’s a cost under $250. It goes to optical audio to an RME ADI-2. It is fabulous.

I learned in my wifi heavy area that the toslink is better sound quality (using a glass toslink cable) than coax to the DAC. The RME ADI-2 is able to play streams via BOTH inputs at 192K.

The WiiM Pro deployed with an external LPS puts it on par if not better than the other options listed here. You simply can’t go wrong with it. My full range system never sounded better. (I also have a fiber optic connection now and that was a very nice boost to the overall streaming quality. In addition I use Cisco network switches cascaded to the WiiM Pro streamer with fiber optic cable between them. Another very nice bump in quality.)

The Optical Rendu option is also an excellent product that meets your $1,000 budget. Last, Blue Jean ethernet cables are top notch and inexpensive. Don’t go down that ethernet cable rabbit hole.

Happy listening!

Don’t overspend, especially at first. It’s something you have to use, know, understand, and analog logic doesn’t apply. There are a lot of uber expensive options out there that don’t add SQ and just address the nervosa.

After you know what you’re doing, feel free to pull out the wallet. Don’t start that way.

I’ve built a couple great PC streamers and many swear by their Raspberry Pi’s. But if you’re not interested in learning about PCs, I’d go for something like an IfI Zen or a Pro-Ject to start. Consider using Roon, which is one of the best things about streaming. Streamer has to be compatible.

The suggestions of any Wiim (mini or pro) are a great first start.  I used my mini into my Bricasti DAC for quite some time.

I next was an early adopter of the Eversolo DMP-A6.  For what it is and what it can do for under $1000 it is very hard to beat. 

I thought I would upgrade relatively soon after that addition but am enjoying the Eversolo.  The final upgrade to my system would be a streamer 20x the cost of the A6.  But I realize I will not hear 20x the improvement because of diminishing returns and all that.

Happy listening!

I learned in my wifi heavy area that the toslink is better sound quality (using a glass toslink cable) than coax to the DAC. The RME ADI-2 is able to play streams via BOTH inputs at 192K.

@romanesq I was under the impression Toslink is limited to 24/96. 

I already had a DAC too and wanted a streamer better than my old Node.  The Sonore Micro-rendu, (or the ultra rendu) with the Small Green ComputerLPS, works  great.   As does the SOTM sms-200 Neo ($500) with the SGC power supply.    I’m using a Small Green Computer Sonictransporter I5 to run Roon AND Tidal.   Great tech support and its operation has been flawless.  

Another vote to start with a BS Node 130 $499 new and use your dac. It was less than a year after I got mine, I bought a better USB cable and then I bought the Teddy Pardo LPS. The cable made a big difference and the linear power supply made an even bigger! I think this combination gave me at least 80+% of what a $6300 Aurender streamer gives me in sound quality.

All the best.

@soix - Typically, but the RME ADI-2 DAC receives the 192K 24 bit toslink signal and utilize it without any drops. 

The WiiM Pro app is set to 192K output and it works a charm. The app also sees regular updates and is Roon Ready in my system. 

I can strongly recommend an Innuos PULSE.  The accompanying Sense app is the icing on the cake.  Works flawlessly with Qobuz.

@northbeach does the Innuos Pulse Mini support Tidal Connect? I've been trying to find a good streamer (less than $2K) that has USB outputs so the better clock in an external DAC can take over to reduce jitter.  Someone mentioned the Bluesound Node X has USB output, but I'm not 100% sure connecting it to an external DAC truly bypasses the clock in the Node.  Thanks. 

One thing people seem to ignore (correct me please if I am wrong) is that to use the "better" clock in your external DAC over the one in a "cheap" streamer, you must use asynchronous USB or I2S, otherwise the clock in the streamer is doing the "driving".

@moonwatcher @audphile1 This is interesting and something I’ve wondered about.  I’m using a DDC to feed i2S to my DAC, so does that mean the clock in the DDC is bypassed and the clock in the DAC is the only one working?

@soix sorry, I’ve not yet gone down the rabbit hole of using a DDC but might do that sometime, so I don’t have any first hand experience with using one. I’ve only watched the videos on Vinshine’s website and YouTube channel about the Iris.

My limited understanding is that the DDC "somehow" takes over the clock duties from both the streamer and the DAC, and the DDC’s better clock circuit does its magic to reduce jitter even further. This would happen over I2S and USB but not (if I understand correctly) Toslink Coax or SP/DIF Optical. Perhaps someone else on here can illuminate how this works and if it is in a setting or if it is automatic. Weekend is here. Enjoy the music.

Oh, here is one of the videos I watched regarding using the Iris with a Pontus II:

Best Seller • Iris DDC + Pontus II DAC (vinshine.audio)

@soix I’m going to take a wild guess / make an assumption and say the DDC reclocks the signal before the output if this is your DDC (Hermes).

Don't want to hijack this thread. I too love my WiiM devices for what they are. But I don't see too many on here suggesting Cambridge Audio's $500 MXN10 or AXN10 as low-cost streamer options.  Stereophile has a review in the current issue and the guy liked the MXN10 very much, even used it with an inappropriate dCS DAC just for the heck of it to see how it would do. Given the retail price is roughly double that of the WiiM Pro Plus, can we surmise that the clock circuit in the Cambridge should be "better"? Anyone here have one to offer feedback?  Thanks. Oh, note that you can find "open box" MXN10s on Cambridge's eBay store for $399. 

This is off the Innuos site:

I’ve just bought a streamer only NuPrime Stream 9. It works very good over WiFi connection but I prefer LAN cable connection. Unfortunately I get a display message UNSUPPORTED while trying to establish LAN cable connection. I tried factory reset of streamer, reset of my modem/router but didn’t work. Any suggestions?

Any thoughts or decisions from the OP? @pal 

I've put my money where my mouth is, and upgraded my streamer.

Against my better judgement (price wise) I'm in the process of purchasing an Antipodes K21. Was looking at Innuos Pulse and Lumin U2.

Should match well with the Innuos Phoenix USB.

I guess the OP is AWOL 🤔

@jerrybj Sweet. Post your impressions. In looking at the article posted below decide which output to use to your DAC- which DAC do you have?

Regarding this comment: @moonwatcher

One thing people seem to ignore (correct me please if I am wrong) is that to use the "better" clock in your external DAC over the one in a "cheap" streamer, you must use asynchronous USB or I2S, otherwise the clock in the streamer is doing the "driving". The use of Toslink optical or coax outputs from a streamer limits you to however good the clock in the streamer is. At least this is what Hans Beekhuyzen implied in a recent YouTube video of his.

In checking Antipodes articles it says this:

The implications of using different connections:

1. Ethernet: Using Ethernet means the music server only performs the Server App step and the DAC performs the rest.
2. USB: Using USB means the Server App, Player App and regeneration step are performed in the music server and precise-clocking is left entirely to the DAC.
3. S/PDIF, AES3 or I2S: Using S/PDIF, AES3 or I2S means the Server and Player Apps, regeneration and re-clocking are performed in the music server, and the DAC’s re-clocking is applied to a cleaner signal. However, remember that S/PDIF and AES3 have only low bandwidth transmission capabilities.

So according to Antipodes it appears USB and I2S are not similar, and I2S is more like AES3, at least with their streamers. I don't know whether this is industry standard or if different streamers would not clock it using I2S (?) 

@mclinnguy Interesting from the Antipodes article. According to that, even S/PDIF can (but maybe not always depending on the DAC) be reclocked by a downstream DAC. 

All I know is that both USB and I2S are asynchronous in nature, and I2S keeps the clock stream and data stream separate, instead of multiplexing them together like USB, so, in theory, I2S should offer a "cleaner" signal to the DAC or at least less overhead in processing, for less jitter.  Could I hear a difference? I'm not sure. 

But I'd be happy if more streamers in the $400 to $1100 range would offer USB or I2S outputs to feed an external DAC so we could be "done with" this issue and know for certain that the "better" clock we have paid for is doing its thing, along with having the bandwidth to do higher resolution files if we want. Thanks. 

Just want to put a word in for Silent Angel M1T.

@soix the right toslink components will handle 24/192 without problem. I use Oppo BDP105 >DH Labs Glass Master toslink cable > Ayre Codex dac. The Ayre display always reads 192 with 24/192 material. Before buying the Codex I asked Ayre if toslink could do 24/192. They said the right transmitter and receiver could, with a good cable.

Thanks,

barondla