It is an unreasonable expectation that lps of several decades vintage are going to sound pristinely quiet, regardless of cleaning machine. Many of these were manufactured with inferior vinyl in the first place, as the energy crisis and other factors led to vinyl recycling. And when lp was out of favor people stored them in attics, basement, garages, with no climate control. Auditioning for noise before hand usually isn’t feasible, so it’s a crap shoot.
New lps? Ridiculously expensive, imho, and many of them use a digital mastering stage. They might sound good but if any digital stage is used, then whatever theoretical advantage that vinyl has by maintaining an analog wave form is lost. Like your virginity, once lost, it can’t be regained. And if you are going to listen to a digital file, why embed it in a slab of petroleum, and then extract with a needle slashing its way through the groove which it degrades with each playing? With even careful maintenance, eventually your new expensive lps will start acquiring surface noise due to groove damage and other factors. If you are going to play a digital file, use digital equipment.
If you have a low tolerance for surface noise, analog isn’t for you. I think you would be happier, OP, with a good digital setup. I reserve vinyl for recordings that can’t be obtained digitally, or that were poorly transferred from analog to digital.It is possible to achieve excellent sound either way. The music is what counts most; the technology is a means to an end, and not an end it itself.
Mahler123, FWIW (probably not much), I've followed your posts on this thread and must tell you that my reasons for getting out of vinyl pretty much mirror yours, and your advise on LP acquisitions is spot on! Good advice yet you keep your posts positive.
If you got virtually no improvement with the electrostatic cleaning. Then those disks were trashed. But this does not mean you should give up on used.
I recommend going to a used record store. Each time you find an interesting disk. Carefully pull it out of the sleeve (you know how to handle disks? Right?) and carefully examine it. When the light hits at the right angle you will be able to tell if the grooves are shiny and clean or dull. Buy a couple of the best you find. They are likely to sound great. With a little practice you can pick out only perfect disks. The cleaning can remove surface dust and debris, but not embedded or worn grooves. You will learn to separate the two.
I started back up from scratch almost five years ago. The first album I bought was Led Zeppelin II, then I bought Miles Davis Kind of Blue. I'm up to about 145 albums now, all of them VG+ or better and killer pressings. I've upgraded the Zep II to a RL and the KOB to a first press mono.
Pulling an album out of the discography, looking at it, placing it on the table, etc is a huge part of the whole experience for me.
Don't forget to buy an ultrasonic record cleaning machine, it's a must have.
@jjbeason14My suggestion is to play a LP or two and then send them in for a cleaning treatment from a service using a reputable method.
Of the outcome is as wanted and cleaning is the way forward, have a look at the Neil Antin PAVCR Tutorial, which offers a exceptional method for Manual Cleaning and the one I now use over all other methods previously available.
I now refer to LP's undergoing this method as Purified.
If the manual method does become the method, have the few album previously cleaned done this way as well and see if any other cleanliness is seemingly produced.
while vinyl has unquestionably resurged, the factors that led to its decline are still present. A poor quality lp that was issued half a century ago doesn’t improve with use and ageing.
What has changed is analog equipment quality . One needs to be above entry level, but today’s gear can track and extract much better than the gear that most of us had in our youth. However the complete eradication of surface noise, especially on vintage lps, is an unrealistic goal
First and foremost, you must sample a wide variety of music regardless of the medium you wish to use, and it is helpful to have some guidance because the field is so wide open and varied.
You can get good guide books on collecting. One of my favorites is "1,001 Classical Records You Must Hear Before You Die." Not only does this book list very good recordings of specific pieces, it is organized chronologically by yea of composition so you can sample music from different eras to get an idea of what you like and what you need to hear more of to understand. Another good guide, though quite long out of print are the various Penguin Guides to Classical Music. There are many on-line listings that are useful too. Particularly if you are interested in modern, late 20th century and 21st century music, Google The Guardian lists and articles on the subject.
It is impossible to make specific recommendations because each individual's tastes and interests vary so widely. A friend in my office wanted an introduction to classical music so I lent him a selection from Renaissance to 20th century music. His favorite was something unusual: Harry Partch's "Delusion of the Fury."
If you become serious about classical music you MUST have access to digital medium because there is so much more available that way than on vinyl. New music and new recordings of old music died a long time ago on vinyl. Some of the reissues on digital medium sound better than the original vinyl issue, such as, most DG recordings from the 1970's (they had great artists under contract but put out bright and thin recordings that were improved upon when reissued on CD).
If you want some lively classical music try Tchaikovsky and Shostakovich.
The Boston Symphony just did an amazing set of the Shostakovich Symphonies, I'm not sure if they were released on vinyl but I'm sure you can find them by others.
There's some classical music recorded direct to disc that sounds great too.
I'd like some new vinyl recommendations if possible.
👍
I’ll re-suggest - buy a few used (that are playable) and buy new (remaster?) of the same - content less important - see which (old vs new) suits you better as not everyone has the same preference in this regard. If you don’t, you’re not giving yourself anything of comparative value as to whether vinyl classical is a good direction for you. Better to try to determine this early on rather than once you’ve amassed a stack of something that’s even heavier than the same cubic footage in books! 😉
Start with anything from the Baroque period,especially Bach,Vivaldi,Boccherini,Telemann,vocal music of Lilly,Byrd. String Quartets are a perfect place to begin. They are many classical websites that will guide you to the best of the best. Then you can check them out on you tube. I would go with small group composition which are most accessible to our brains stay away from grandiose romantic mish mush like Wagner,Mahler,Mendelssohn and Tchaichovsky. Cheers,Chet
<< I probably have 1,000 classical LPs. I almost never listen to them. I do have, and listen to classical CDs ripped to a streamer. I MUCH prefer listening to classical digitally— no awkward breaks in programming, easy to find place in libretti when listening to opera, no ticks and pops during quiet passages, and most significantly, VASTLY greater selection of composers and performances (most legacy performances have been reissued digitally, very few new recordings have been issued on LPs since the early 1990s). >>
Until a few months ago, I had 1800 LPs of which 80% were classical, a carefully curated collection I began as a teenager. Like @ larryi, I wasn’t listening to them much and we needed the room to build bunkbeds for our grandkids. So I sold the records. [If you read TAS, check out the editorial for the February 2024 issue, which tells the story.] I agree that a listener without much experience with classical music should begin with inexpensive and wide-ranging sources—radio, streaming (with smart algorithms), used CDs at garage sales.
But the OP asked about LPs. I kept 50 or 60 of my vinyl albums for various reasons, some sentimental but most because they sound so good. Here are a dozen of the classical records currently on the very small shelf a few feet from where I’m typing in my office. Most are audiophile-quality reissues and worth the price - they all sound great and I bet the OP will actually listen to them, both for the content and their considerable audio merits.
You can get them from Acoustic Sounds, Music Direct, and Speakers Corner and, of course, used via eBay, Amazon, etc
1. Herold-Lanchbery: La fille mal gardeé (Decca)
2. Canteloube: Songs of the Auvergne. Davrath. Vanguard/AP)
3. Chopin’s Last Waltz. Robert Silverman (Stereophile)
Since musical tastes tend to be idiosyncratic, maybe the best bet is to listen to a range of music on whatever streaming service you have access to. Once you've decided you like a particular piece and/or composer, you can search for the "best" recording.
I have a fairly extensive vinyl collection and I picked up >100 vintage classical albums from an online sales posting. The seller bought records in large lots and was searching for particular items. He jettisoned the rest of them for <$1.00/album. Admittedly, some were in bad shape but all recordings I bought were 40-50 years old.
My two cents, conductor and sound engineer matter. So when I write about "recordings," I am thinking of the best combination of recording quality, artistic expression through recording, and the interpretations of the music by the conductor.
Of course, you'll want to consider which periods and styles of music float your boat. "Classical" can be anything from Renaissance choral polyphony to atonal 20th century, if we're sticking with a Western definition.
An inexpensive vinyl journey is to explore anything on the l'Oiseau Lyre (Decca) label, in particular the work of Christopher Hogwood and his early music group. His Mozart, Bach, and Vivaldi interpretations are superb, and the recording is, to my taste, among the very best out there. The Mozart symphony box sets (7 vols.) are the best Mozart symphonies, imho.
Others have mentioned Deutsche G., which is certainly huge. But I prefer, as recordings, Philips, Decca, Erato, and Argo. For more recent smaller labels, again for earlier music, try Harmonia Mundi, Hyperion, and Gimell. Also, there is a lot of inexpensive classical on CD too!
Lots of great advice here about how to expose yourself to and learn about classical music, but don't necessarily be put off if you don't like a piece or a compose at first; it may just be the recording.
The Hummingguru ultrasonic record cleaner is $500. It works really well! it runs out a lower frequency than the more expensive $3000 units. I just run the record through twice and it comes out great. It’s about whole seven minutes to do that. It says to use water only. I use one drop of a record cleaning desiccant. Not anything else no alcohol.
In my experience, clicks and pops are just in some albums and you cannot get rid of them. I have a Klaudio record cleaner. It does a great job but cannot get every click or pop out of an album. I use it on every album I buy whether new or used. FWIW. You might try Telarc used albums. They are digital put to vinyl and some are just fabulous in my opinion. I especially like the 1812 Overture which uses really cannons firing.
I tried unopened classical and there a slight static
I should mention that I tried playing some old classical lps and there were a ton of static and pops. Then when i played a new pristine Hemisphere disc it also started to have pops and static. Brought it to a local record store and bought a stylic cleaner. He also cleaned the disc with a cloth and cleaner and now it's 97% better.
I will say that it's unlikely that I'll play dirty old records in the future.
Check out Discogs - HUGE selection of classical vinyl/box sets. I go for near mint or mint if its reasonable. I have purchased box sets of Beethoven symphonies, piano concertos. string quartets, Chamber music. Same with Mozart. Got excellent copies of Bach Brandenburg concertos. I go for EMI, Decca, Angel, RCA Red Label - stuff recorded in the 60's in UK and Europe when they took the time to do a good job. Ask on here for people's favorites - lots of classical music lovers here. I am sure you will get lots of good responses. DG is also good label, as others have mentioned. Depends of course on your taste and the composer. Discogs lets you search by label as well, which I love, especially if its something from the 70's that is out of print. I also found church organ music - go figure. And if you like choirs - Kings college of Cambridge choir is incredible - esp xmas music. Good luck!
I’d recomend having a look at the better records website. I’m not advising paying those prices, but there is a wealth of knowledge to be gained on what classical pressings sound good and some history behind the recordings. I’ve bought numerous records from there over the years. He, Tom, generally sells the quietest most dynamic pressings of classical recordings. He’s already listened to the records with his team to guarantee this. Also offers money back if not happy. He sometimes reduces the costs on some of the classical stuff, so you can often pay less than 100 for a known quiet and good sounding pressing.
I’ve also gone the ebay/discogs route and have had descent success. Also, thrift stores sometimes have some great classical records, but the lighting is typically not very good, so you must be careful and look closely.
Static can be a problem. Static can cause clicks and pops. I have found static guns completely useless.
I preclean album on the turntable with Last General cleaner with their brush. Then use a dust / static arm (looks like a tonearn: Antistatic Record Cleaning Arm… there are a number of them on the market). the arm cleans and discharges in front of the tone arm. The arm is connected to a ground and discharges the electricity.
I recommend all three Last record cleaning products.
Not disagreeing with any of them, but if I were starting a classics collection, I would almost begin by looking first at anything by the finest orchestra/conductor combinations, i.e. Chicago/Reiner, Cleveland/Szell, Ansermet/Orchestre de la Suisse Romande, etc. Those are just a couple of my favorites, and I believe almost anything by them is fabulous. By getting just a few of those, it'll point you in a good direction.
I lusted after DG lps in the day, and there are many that are treasurable, but on the whole it’s interesting how poor DG was a recording bass. At first I thought maybe it was a Karajan thing, but many Bohm and Jochum recordings have the same issue
A reasonably priced record cleaner is your first step. I have a VPI 16.5, but you don’t have to start there. The Spin-Clean is a good starting place, next up the line the Record Doctor V. And then start shopping used. (But stay away from RCA after Red Seal, especially DynaFlex.)
Buy cheap at first and have fun!
And your 2M Blue will do you just fine. Remember to keep the stylus clean.
I’m assuming you’re asking for “quality” in sonics vinyl vs which composer which is subjective:
TAS (The Absolute Sound) high-end audio magazine has an annual (?) “2023 TAS Super LP List” in January 2024 issue #345 which includes pages of favored “classical” LPs. Also, Stereophile has an annual “Records to live for” here
Use your public library’s physical CDs and streaming music resources to find pieces, performers, recordings, etc., that you like without investing any money. Then buy on vinyl the ones you like.
Vinyl LP cleaning- the best is ultrasonic cleaners. The lowest price RCM, without looking like a home project, is Kirmus but is labor intensive. For automatic RCM there’s Degritter, Auto Desk, and KLaudio (guess they reentered the RCM market).
Bonus- if you buy a used record that was worn with a different profile stylus than yours, you may be playing the non-worn part of the used vinyl.
Can I ask why you want to start a vinyl only classical collection?
Why not just a collection of classical music regardless of format?
I love vinyl and have a large collection (of various genres), but, I could never ignore all the incredible classical music that was composed after the 70's, and therefore was never released on vinyl.
The thought of missing out on so much great music because it is not on vinyl, is an anathema to me.
I mostly collect CD’s and file downloads but also mono vinyl. Roughly 97% of my collection is classical/art music. Arkiv Produktion is a favorite of mine. They are a historical performance practice focused label and division of Deutsche Gramophone. They started with quality mono pressings in the 1950’s and then began pressing stereo recordings up into the 2010’s. Also, Analogue Productions remastered much of the RCA Living Stereo recordings which I believe are a vast improvement over the originals. Other remaster and reissue labels I like are Analogphonic and Speakers Corner. If you want to spend insane money on reissued limited edition classical pressings then take a look at The Electric Recording Company but their runs are extremely short and they sell out fast. It’s best to get onto their email mailing list. Otherwise, I would just visit your local brick and mortar record stores but in my experience, that is very hit and miss. Another recommendation; it sometimes helps to look for composers based on the time periods from which they lived. In other words, Gregorian Chant, Medieval, Renaissance, Baroque, Classical, Romantic, etc… This way, you’ll know the period or style of music your interested in and can discover works by composers that you’ve never heard of. This is how I found works by Zelenka. And lastly, you may benefit by getting a periodical subscription like ‘Gramophone Magazine’, or if you read French, ‘Diapson’. And, they of course they have websites.
Anyone who says a higher end ultrasonic cleaner did nothing for them was doing something wrong. The vast majority of my vinyl sounds nearly as quiet as a CD. As stated, you can't fix physical damage with one, but if you're using a good cart with a good cleaner, the results can be amazing. Keep in mind, the higher end machines operate at a higher frequency than the lower end machines and those designed for purposes other than vinyl, which means they have smaller bubbles which penetrate deeper into the grooves. The best cartridge you can afford/justify also can make a huge difference. I learned that lesson when I upgraded from a Hana ML to a Hana Umami Red. The difference was more than I ever dreamed possible, and the ML is no slouch!
The vast majority of my vinyl sounds nearly as quiet as a CD
You are right. Anyone who talks about pops & clicks are not cleaning properly or have a bad setup. The higher end cartridges sound much better. Part of that is the line contact style stylus that digs deeper into the grooves. Of course that's not the whole story
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