Hello all, first time post here. I am in the market for a new TT under 2k. I've narrowed it down to the Sota Comet and the Technics 1200GR. Going to use a $300 to $500 MM cart. System consists of NAD533 TT (currently). NAD pre amp, Cambridge Phono pre amp, Mac 240 amp, TDL compact monitors. Sota i like as it uses the 330 tonearm, is built in the states, solid rep, solid support, is pleasing to the eye. Technics I like as it's built like a tank, seems more plug and play has a good rep and looks good too. (more bells and whistles, both positive and negatives there) Obviously they are different in some ways. Direct drive vs belt etc.. Was wondering if anyone had an opinion either way on either deck. Greatly appreciate any feedback. Thank you
Tonearm is most important, assuming the table spins at the right speed. You can always add isolation or put it on a wall shelf.
As the OP mentioned it is a Rega RB330, not 300, and this was a nice improvement a few years ago.
I’d get the Sota between the two, but if it were me, I’d go with a Rega P6, or if I could, stretch for the P8 and get an even better arm and table for $2600 if you could get a 15% discount, which are out there. That could be your last turntable.
Love my SOTA Nova, and agree with mijostyn3 that the Sapphire is where you need to start in the brand. And don't get an ugly oak or black finish; live a little and get it in a beautiful exotic wood! The RB300 or various Jelcos arms are good, or better yet if you find a deal on a used Fidelity Research FR64fx that arm will be amazing on a SOTA.
If you're strictly sticking to your budget and those 2 models, I'd be more inclined to try the Technics. But there are loads of used SOTAs out there and refurb/service options through SOTA too. Just be aware the older Sapphires had a 3-point suspension; the 4-point of Star/Nova models and modern Sapphires is better. But hey, even an old Sapphire will be pretty nice once tuned up.
Don't underestimate the value of SOTA's suspension; you can almost completely screw up your rack/isolation scheme and still be OK with a SOTA whereas the same platform would be a train wreck for other tables.
@lewm, If you have a direct drive table could you do us a favor? Take the platter off, hover the cartridge over the motor about two inches from the spindle at platter height, turn the motor on and turn up the volume. You hear anything?
@lewm , Yes, I have that skill set. I do not have to listen to that arm. I can see it. I do not understand how a smart guy like you can't tell by looking at a very simple device why it might be inferior. The RB 300 has it's deficiencies but is handily a better design than the Technics arm. But the single most significant problem with that turntable is that it is in no way shape or form isolated the way a proper turntable should be. A cartridge in that arm, on that turntable is still reading a lot of environmental garbage that it should not be. The Comet being unsuspended is probably no better in that regard but at least it has an arm without unnecessary contacts and with reasonably low moment of inertia.
I would recommend upgrading your speakers to SALK Song3 Encore towers. However, they are $6,000 and well worth the cost difference. I met Jim Salk at the RMAF two years and I thought these sounded better than a pair of $60,000 speakers down the hallway. However, he was playing these through tub mono blocks and perhaps the mono blocks made them sound so incredible. Maybe there is something to be said for tube amplifiers. They do sound warmer. However, they do require more maintenance and the cost of replacing tubes. Not sure how mono blocks work. Are they two channels of mono to create stereo? I am sure this gives me away for being such a rookie. There are so many incredibly knowledgeable people in this group and I am sure they could explain this to me. Bear with me.
Technics all the way. I own a 1200G because I found a great deal on it. I did consider the GR before the G popped up. It will last forever, it's always ready to work, in my opinion it's gorgeous to look at and most important - it sounds amazing. Very easy to switch head shells as well.
I was looking into getting a new TT as well with a budget similar to OP. But I am waiting to refinish the basement before making the final decision. I narrow it down to the Marantz TT-15S1 or the MoFi UltraDeck both come with a good MM cart and has very good reviews.
Absolutely, nothing against Technics or DD. Both, the brand and technology is gear and have their pluses, but I like the BD better. According to mechanic rules (mechanic as part of physics) it is much harder to maintain balance and isolation of shaft with motor on it towards surface than shaft separated from the motor.
Is SOTA even relevant today? The Comet is a toy, the Technics is a good turntable and the complete package. The arm in the SL1210 is no slouch. It is said to be 85% of the Magnesium arm in the SL1200g. Doubtful you would hear a difference unless you do many comparisons.
Surfmuz wrote, " It’s a big deal to build nice quiet direct drive motor. Production
requires lots of work and investments so it should cost different
figures at exhaust." Can you say what you mean by "quiet"? Because, as I am sure you know, the DD drive system is inherently quieter than either BD or idler-drive. The DD platter rests on a bearing, just as does the platter of every other type. After that, the energy to rotate the platter is purely electromagnetic; nothing makes physical contact with the platter except the bearing. So where does the unique noise problem come from? In a BD turntable, we have a belt contacting the entire periphery of the platter, able to transmit into the platter any noises coming from the outboard motor, which of necessity is usually spinning its pulley at speeds far in excess of platter speed, making for motor bearing wear, wobble in the pulley, stretching of the belt, etc, etc. Now, one can argue that the belt is compliant, usually, and thus will damp out vibrations that inevitably emanate from a BD motor. But that compliance makes for belt creep and speed instability. If the belt is made noncompliant, then the noise problem raises its head.
Plus, as Chakster pointed out, Technics has been in the DD turntable business since the late 1960s; they know a thing or two about the requirements for DD motors, and they didn't have to start from scratch in building their latest models, but they did choose to break with their traditional iron core motors and implement a very advanced core-less motor. Would you care to guess how many of the 1200G, GR, GAE, etc, turntables are sold world-wide, compared to Sota Comets? I think we can agree that Technics has ample market share to spread out its developmental costs in a way that few other audio corporations can do. Now, if you want to talk about EMI (as another definition of "noise") emanating from a DD turntable motor that of necessity is placed very close to the rotating LP, that is a fair criticism. But Technics engineers are not stupid, and they have that long history of building DD turntables on which to draw, which means the motors are shielded from the platter surface by both the platter itself and the motor casing. One advantage of a core-less motor, as used in turntables, is that it casts its field laterally, rather than in the horizontal direction. Mijostyn wrote, "Having said all that the RB300 is a better arm than what is on the
Technics which is going to be more significant sonically. I have not
listened to this Technics but I have never liked the sound of direct
drive turntables. My main experience with them was decades ago, I must
have sold and set up 100 of them at Luskin's Hi Fi. So, take it what it
is worth." This is too easy. How can one say the RB300 is better than the tonearm on the 1200G series and then in the next breath say you have never heard the Technics? Only Mijo possesses such a skill set. Plus, were they selling a lot of SP10s at Luskins? I doubt it. Was the store quiet enough for you to even hear what your customer might have been saying, let alone the nuances of what one turntable sounds like compared to another? I am doubtful. (To those too young to know, Luskins was a chain of huge busy stores based in Baltimore, MD, with stores also in DC and VA, something like a Best Buy where the product lines were more narrowly focused on home hi-fi.)
As someone else said, you should buy what you like. If it were me, I would choose the Technics in a heartbeat, although I do have respect for the high end of SOTA turntables. Even Mijostyn says the major advantage of the Comet is that you can later trade it in on something better. That's not what I call praise. Of course, I am biased; I own and listen to four different vintage DD turntables of the highest quality.
I want to thank everyone for the comments and suggestions. You all have given me food for thought for sure. It seems that DD and belt drive are two distinct animals from the same family. Lion vs Tiger no? Both seem to have their fans and detractors, I get it. It pains me to say that at least in my area, the days of going in for a nice sit down with a couple options are gone. That was what got me into this world in the first place, and provided me with my most memorable job while in school. (hard to beat listening to great music, on great gear, drinking Irish coffee while working on school work.)
I also appreciate the suggestions to look at the Music Hall, and someone locally advised me to check out a VPI scout, or scout jr.
It’s a big deal to build nice quiet direct drive motor. Production requires lots of work and investments so it should cost different figures at exhaust.
This is why Direct Drive from Matshushita (Technics/Panasonic) is the best in the world, they are making direct drive turntables since the 60’s.
DD in SL1200GR is CORELESS DIRECT DRIVE, the best you can get today. You’d better read before you post.
Specific turntable recommended in this thread, not just a DD in general, it's the latest Direct Drive from Technics.
For me, In this price range the one with belt drive would be preferable. It’s a big deal to build nice quiet direct drive motor. Production requires lots of work and investments so it should cost different figures at exhaust.
I have been considering the same purchase. Done a lot of soul searching; evaluating, and discussion with people familiar with turntable design and performance. Personally, of the two choices, I like the SL-1200GR for a variety of reasons. Overall the weakest link in that chain may be the tone arm. Considering the other elements in your system, I think that any weaknesses associated with the TECHNICS arm, are so miniscule, that side by side, considering the use of the same cartridge in both, The TECHNICS still comes out ahead. Also if your pair it with a GRADO "SONATA 3" cartridge. Very easy to set up with the SL-1200GR table. I believe that you will not be disappointed in the outcome.
One thing in addition: If you really want to get the most out of any TT and cartridge setup, I strongly suggest you look into a serious record cleaning/restoration system. The KIRMUSS system is a little pricey and almost nightmarish to use, however, if you have the patience, the outcome will astound you. A "dirt cheap" second choice, which I have tried and was quite surprised at the quality of the outcome, was a combination of a RECORD DOCTOR VI, and a bottle of TTVJ ENZYME GOLD record cleaning solution . With a little thought and practice, the resulting outcome will be surprisingly close to that achieved with the KIRMUSS, at a fraction of the price. Still a little laborious, however. Take any record that does not display signs of excess groove wear, and use on of the deep cleaning methods I have mentioned, and the resulting playback quality, will sound amazingly similar to mag tape.
They are both good tables there are tradeoffs to both the better tonearm on the sota will be a major sound upgrade over the technics arm as well as the wood base of the sota will impart a more warm natural sound sound on acoustic music but if you listen to driving music the technics will probably please more.
I'd get neither, and instead buy a music hall mmf-7.3 in walnut with the 2m bronze. Alternatively, replace the bronze with a Goldring Eroica LX moving coil.
Any Sota Turntable comes with a lifetime trade-in program. As it has been said here -the real magic happens with a full suspension. The Comet V is excellent. Then you can trade up to a suspended chassis model later.
Don’t listen to anyone pushing either solution. Everyone hears differently. How you hear, and you alone, must determine which sounds better. To you. For the record, I prefer belt drive, but YMMD.
find a well cared for Sota Sapphire, decent arm and any of the good already mentioned MM carts mentioned above w addition of the Nakagoka. As you hopefully know, the 240 is the gem, GEM of your system. Tube amps mostly sound like the output transformer and the 240 has transformers rarely bettered today.....hold on to that and keep it running in top shape. PM if you need a referral on doing that. have fun, enjoy the music. You can see sota w 240 variations on my vintage system page......
I’m normally a fan of belt-drive tables, however, I recently acquired a 1210GR and am very impressed with the sound quality it produces. I’ve owned quite a few turntables including a handful of vintage direct-drive tables. This is the first table I’ve encountered that I feel mostly combines the best sonic attributes of belt and direct-drive. I can only surmise this is due to the core-less motor, or maybe that it allows the user to choose the motor’s torque level (which I set to its lowest). Whatever the case, it doesn’t exhibit nearly as much of the character I previously found objectionable with direct-drives.
Sure, I’d rather have a Palmer or SME 20, but for a mere mortal’s budget, I doubt there is anything better under $2K (my reference is a belt-drive setup that last retailed for over $4K).
The GR’s arm is no slouch BTW. I have a nearly new $800 Jelco arm in my closet that I could fit to the GR but don’t foresee that I’ll ever bother.
Looks like you're sold on the Technics, especially since you actually like its appearance. The quality of the sound of a direct drive TT is dependent on the quality of the drive motor. Quiet motors are expensive to manufacture and that price has to be passed down to the consumer. In the price range you are considering, both tables are compromises and will work well for you, but the real players will take a little larger financial commitment.
I also listen to big band and own a 1200GR. I don’t know the details of the Sota arm, but the technics has removal head shells. A must if you listen to 10” 33s and 78s on a single table. It also has push button speed control. It is based on the SP 10 & 15 moreso than the original 1200s. Transcribers swear by those models. I also own a belt drive Trovatore with the same capabilities. Between the two I find the Technics more precise, and very strong in the mids. Also, the soundstage is wider - but not as deep. I can’t comment on the cartridge choice. I prefer MC carts. Again, the discs - needle size - may limit you on the cartridges.
It really is down to the arm. Everybody knows I am a big Sota fan. But, I'm afraid the first "real" Sota is the Sapphire. At the Comet's price point they can not put in a suspension. However, Sota has a lifetime trade in policy. So if your decide you want to move up you send in the Comet and they will credit you (not sure how much) towards your new table. Having said all that the RB300 is a better arm than what is on the Technics which is going to be more significant sonically. I have not listened to this Technics but I have never liked the sound of direct drive turntables. My main experience with them was decades ago, I must have sold and set up 100 of them at Luskin's Hi Fi. So, take it what it is worth. The Technics is cool looking and made well. The Goldring 1042 is IMHO the best buy in a MM cartridge. The AT VM series is also a great buy. The Goldring is perfect with the RB300. It might be a little too compliant for the Technics. The AT cartridges are fine in either. There is also Grado, Soundsmith and Clearaudio to consider. The best moving magnet cartridge I have ever heard is the Clearaudio Charisma but is not the best value. The Goldring is close and 1/3rd the price. The AT VN93ML at $170 is another amazing value. The one I set up had a stylus rake angle that was way off -87 degrees I think it was. it was actually tilted the wrong way requiring me to raise the back of the arm quite a bit. Azimuth was fine.
I would love the 1200G. but full disclosure I'm also trying to budget for some new or new to me loudspeakers. I love my TDL's but it's time for a change. My hope was to upgrade TT and speakers for around $4 to $5k. I mostly listen to jazz, big band to some fusion, Rock of all kinds. I like that both the Sota and Technics are daily drivers if you will. I mean no offence to any of the upper crust players. I look at it this way. I have a wonderful Triumph that I don't drive often, great car, fun to work on, fun but scary to drive. I also have a mildly modified Mazda MX5 and drive the snot out of it. Guess that's the long winded thought process. I worked in a high end store back in the early 90's. Glad I found this site, reminds me of such good times.
Dear @doyle3433 : Both are good TTs but if I was you and with out doubt I will go for the Technics and not for the GR but this one that comes with a magnesium way better tonearm and coreless motor too:
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