DarTZeel. Then again, never seen one for sale. |
More important than holding its value is.... your enjoyment and satisfaction while you have it. Doesn't matter if you "got a great deal" and it "holds its value" if you don't like it while you have it - or it doesn't match the rest of your system and priorities.
That said, I would suggest Musical Fidelity, Plinius, Rogue Chronus for value and sonics. |
I once owned an old YBA, it is a nice piece of gear... The Rowland stuff, I've heard in the past (all separates) were better than the YBA... I didn't notice a budget.. but my short list today in SS would include a Coda. Their integrated can be had for $2500 to $3000. Fast, accurate and fairly refined. |
Try to find(if budget permits) a used Gryphon Diablo. It's an iconic amp that will always be in demand. |
"09-14-14: Nonoise
Based on the OP's criteria, there are many wonderful sounding rigs that'll fly under the radar but if the cover of the book is paramount, then so be it."
True, but the OP may want to change his strategy to picking an amp that he likes the sound of. Most likely, that will eliminate the need to treat his amp like a used car. |
Based on the OP's criteria, there are many wonderful sounding rigs that'll fly under the radar but if the cover of the book is paramount, then so be it.
All the best,
Nonoise |
09-13-14: Maxboy00
The Modwright KWI-200 is a great IA, plenty of info on the web. Sadly it does not hold its value as other brands, altho it's very well built, sounds great and is MFG in the US, none the less it's a great buy as used or demoed. I think Modwright are best known for their mods & power amps. That's what they do best. The KWI-200 is a good first effort by Dan, though I would (personally) go for the Hegel H300 around the same price point, or step up to a 2nd hand Vitus RI-100. I suspect we'll see a KWI-200SE enter the fray in the future. |
The Modwright KWI-200 is a great IA, plenty of info on the web. Sadly it does not hold its value as other brands, altho it's very well built, sounds great and is MFG in the US, none the less it's a great buy as used or demoed. |
"Yamaha Natural Sound"...isn't that an oxymoron? :D |
Krell KAV 300i and 400i,
Yamaha Natural Sound Receiver is holding up value as well. |
@Zd, yes very true, though my Dealer looks after me. |
"Speaking for myself as an audiophile with 24 years experience, I can tell you I bought all my current gear eyes wide open."
And your wallet, I bet. |
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Audio Note Kondo Japan. Jump on one now. |
Supply and demand is really what will determine resale value of anything.
Colelctor items aside, newer, proven brands/products in good condition that offer good value to start will hold value best. Agon bluebook resale prices would be the place to look to find out what those are.
Does tube gear really have an advantage? Anything concrete to back that up? I suppose only the data in the agon bluebook database might say for sure. That or any similar data that ebay might retain and make available. |
No worries- I just realized I was off-topic anyway. |
@Atmasphere, I just realized I was confusing popularity with resale value per say. I understand where you're coming from now, and you could be right as I haven't researched resale value on tube vs solid state gear. I am just approaching it from the point of view the majority of punters are unlikely to buy high efficiency speakers, and my thinking that those with inefficient speakers would be less likely to steer toward a tube integrated amp due to some of the reasons I mentioned. But I accept there are exceptions such as the classic Vac Phi Beta and Viva Solista Mk3. Zd's comment above is also valid. There are also highly sought after ss Class A integrated amps such Vitus which maintain good resale value. Accuphase also generally maintain good resale. Speaking for myself as an audiophile with 24 years experience, I can tell you I bought all my current gear eyes wide open. |
"09-10-14: Melbguy1
Atmasphere, unless you're talking about niche brands like Audio Note and Kondo, I can't agree with your statement. For a range of reasons SS integrated amps are deemed more reliable, and therefore a lower risk
proposition."
Atmasphere is right. Generally speaking, used tube gear holds its value better than solid state. Many audiophiles want tubes and won't settle for anything else.
There's one point I think you're missing here. Audiophiles are not your average people. They usually know what they are getting into before they buy. The risks are usually well known and they're OK with them. If you check out how much tube and ss gear actually sells for on sites like this and ebay, you'll probably change your mind. |
For me if you can get a very good condition vintage Accuphase E202 it will hold its value. You would definitely be able to re-sell it close to what you paid for it. |
@Stringreen, yeah Ayre is nice gear. |
You should search out the Ayre integrated unit..... |
Atmasphere, unless you're talking about niche brands like Audio Note and
Kondo, I can't agree with your statement. For a range of reasons SS
integrated amps are deemed more reliable, and therefore a lower risk
proposition. The majority of loudspeakers are not high efficiency speakers,
therefore most punters want an integrated amp capable of delivering high
current (stability) and authority when presented with a moderate to difficult
load. Then there is the attraction of low maintenance (ie: no waiting for
tubes to warm up, no tube swapping or adjusting bias). Loudspeakers
throwing a moderate to difficult load at a tube integrated product will place
a lot of stress on the tubes to supply current which can negatively impact
tube life and reliability. Tube hybrid integrateds like the Aesthetix Atlas are
a different story of course, but I'd argue SS integrated amps like Accuphase
etc hold their value better overall than thier tube counterparts. |
If you look at the history of integrated amplifiers it will be obvious that tube integrated amplifiers tend to hold their value better than solid state.
Take a look at ebay- put in the brand of amplifier, and the words 'integrated amplifier' and look at the prices- its pretty obvious. |
Thanks Jafant. I'll drop you a hint by saying "not yet" ;) But agreed, it is a great combo, especially with Magico. I remember hearing the Q1's with a Vitus SIA-025, SCD-010 cdp & Siltech Royal Sig series cables. The sound was amazingly pure, tube-like (liquid) and analogue sounding. I was shocked to be honest & never forgot that. |
Melbguy1-
are you using a Vitus cd player w/ your Vitus integrated?
It appears to be a sweet combo! Happy Listening. |
Most gear bought second hand should maintain it's value. I have used a good number of integrated SS amps in the past. Of the ones mentioned above, my favourite would be the Lavardin IT, with the proviso that it is'nt that powerful, you need the right, easy to drive speakers.
To name a few other manufacturers with a fine reputation and that has to be the main determinent of maintaing value, I would suggest Gamut, Luxman and Accuphase. All make fine amps I would happily live with and have a reputation of being long lived and reliable, also a prerequisite for maintaining value |
I would add the Vitus SIA-025 class A integrated. These lovely integrateds rarely appear on A'gon for sale, and are quickly snapped up for good reason. The SIA-025 is a true balanced, dual mono, 25 Watt class A amp which uses an efficient Vitus-designed UI-core potted "floating" transformer with separate windings for the left & right channels. The preamplifier stage is made from one single "buffer" module which is also used in the SL-102.. so .. really good, whilst the output stage is drawn from the SM-010 mono amps. The Vitus in every respect is the best integrated amp i've owned by a fair margin. Btw, the SIA-025 was updated in early Q1, 2012 which optimized multiple areas of the amp - but with most focus on the modules in both pre and power amp part. Basically it gives a bit more of everything - higher resolution, better power handling. |
if you can come across a simaudio i7 you will find it holds it's value well. it is a fine amp on all counts. |
You mean nominal value. Right? No discounting inflation.
Anyway, if you loose a bit, take it as if you were renting the amp. |
If the choice was only the Rowland or the YBA, I would go with the Rowland. Steady ownership with a good history of servicing non-current models. The Concentra and Concentra II do sound different so depending upon your loudspeakers you might prefer one over the other. I currently own a Rowland 112 power amp (the amplifier circuit use in the Concentra II) and once owned a Concentra and have achieved very good imaging and depth portrayal with either. |
Krell Pre 2012 equipment holds their value quite well, I see vintage intergratds from 1996 still selling on the market for 50% of the original value, now that is pretty good! |
Lavardin IT and IS. If you can find one.... |
sorry I thought it was obvious I was referring to USED gear purchases that hold their value well ... obviously ANYTHING new is going to drop like a stone at least initially. The Rowland and YBA pieces I mentioned are relatively old but both seem to maintain good used pricing.
thanks for the responses though!
Jeff |
(1) As amply highlighted in the prior posts, the inescapable cold hard facts are that a 50% (+ or -) depreciation hit kicks in shortly after you bring that baby home..... Regardless of the brand.
(2) The inescapable depreciation hit can be more. "...hold their value..." is a very subjective and heavily biased conflicting personal value judgement.The intrinsic value to the Seller is invariably more than to Buyer.
cheaply built and thus cheaply priced when new 2 channel audio components sink the fastest ... If you can actually trade-it in or sell it privately at all.
(3) this hobby has these basic tenets ingrained in it. If it bothers you in the extreme, the only way to minimize that raw $$ depreciation hit was already highlighted in the prior posts : buy the kit already used. |
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Zavato is correct . Buying used you should be able to sell all your gear for what you paid . If you sell before it becomes obsolete , or simply too old . If one were to keep a revolving door every few years and decide to get out of the hobby all this great fun should cost very little. P.S. Don't tell the new equipment buyers this or it will no longer work |
Naim Nait holds up very well |
Mcintosh holds it's value. You need to buy used. My current integrated, still in production, cost me less than 50% of MSRP- it's was bought used. I am sure I could sell,it for what I paid.
This hobby need not cost money if you buy used and buy well. By buying well, I mean- excellent cosmetic shape, works properly, original box and manual. So long as you spend in the 50-60 % MSRP range you won't take a bath if you sell. |
The ones you buy used not new. |
Good choice with the Rowland - as you probably noticed since you mentioned it, they hold their value. I bought a version 'I' back in 1999 for $3k, sold it for $3k a couple years later, and they still get about the same now. Other contenders are Plinius, Classe, and of course McIntosh, all used of course. New, you'll pay the premium. |
"09-06-14: Lindisfarne
I hope you're kidding because, generally, as soon as you drive new gear "off the lot" you can count on a 35-50% haircut. And, said discount applies as early as the day after you buy it. I have been selling on this site for over a decade and always buy new gear that I sell for, at best, 65% of the price I paid and that is even if it's been in my house for a week."
You have to expect stuff like that. On most products, the warranty doesn't transfer. And when people buy used, on sites like this, there's always an element of risk, as opposed to meeting someone in person to trade gear. That's why its called used equipment. The market adjusts for all those factors. As far as getting what you want when you sell, the prices can vary greatly. For example, companies like B&W and Rotel are extremely against selling their products in anything other than a B&M store. Because of that, it makes the brand less accessible to customers, and the price you get used is usually above average. If you take factors like that into consideration before you buy, you should do much better on resale. |
I hope you're kidding because, generally, as soon as you drive new gear "off the lot" you can count on a 35-50% haircut. And, said discount applies as early as the day after you buy it. I have been selling on this site for over a decade and always buy new gear that I sell for, at best, 65% of the price I paid and that is even if it's been in my house for a week. |
The integrated that will hold its value best is the one you like to listen to.
That said, I think you will definitely need to listen to the Rowland before you buy one. I have a 112 which is the amp section of the Concentra II (at least that is what Rowland told me). I does some things really well, but I don't use it that much because the imaging sucks. I wish I had a better word for it, but sucks is the most accurate. No depth whatsoever. Like me, you may say its no big deal. There are other qualities that are more important to me. But its one of those things, that when you actually hear it (or in this case, not hear it), its stunning. |
