I have floor standers and stand mounts, prefer the stand mounts, both the same brand. People like what they like. You will never get it @secretguy.
Should I graduate to floor standers or will larger bookshelves suffice?
Hey guys,
I moved into a larger space several years ago, more of an open floor plan, and soon realized that my current speakers, Legacy Studio HD, in a surround array, might be a bit overwhelmed. It’s a weird, asymmetrical space, but it’s also significantly larger than my previous one. So the title of my post says it all…can I still get adequate coverage with bookshelf speakers, or do I now need floor standers? A friend told me to basically “sit closer to the tv” but that isn’t practical.
I thought about the Calibres from Legacy as an option, which is about my price range…up to 7k or so. I also see all these great internet only brands, like Fritz, or Philharmonic, etc, and I hear about their prodigious extension and sound stage, but can these bookshelves fill my room, or any room for that matter?
Let me also add, I have no problem graduating to floor standers, so suggestions are also welcome.
Thanks in advance.
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@erik_squires I wish Fritz made floor standers, but he’s obviously more enamored with the virtues of stand mounts. |
@drmuso thats a good point. I think my room really sucks for acoustics, and it may be a large part of my problem. These speakers sounded a helluva lot better at my old place....at least their weaknesses weren’t so pronounced. |
You mentioned your room is an open floor plan and asymmetrical. I’ve lived with such a room for decades. There is a conventional corner behind the right speaker and a more open area with a corner behind the left. With conventional box speakers, the right speaker’s bass is more reinforced by the corner. There are also some imaging problems due to the asymmetry. I discovered that dipole planar speakers helped to reduce these issues. I had the Magneplanar IIIa and then Apogee Duetta II. I had the latter refurbished a few years ago, and they’re better than ever. If the issues I described above apply to your situation, I recommend you consider planar speakers. They excell at producing a realistic, 3-D soundstage and realistic-sized images. Many often have exemplary tonal reproduction. If you like realistic bass, I would recommend a refurbished set of Apogees. If you listen to less bass-heavy music, then Maggies or electrostatics deserve consideration. |
In my experience you need at least an 8" woofer for a speaker to play large scale music to my satisfaction. It's not about deep bass, I think it's dynamics in mid and upper bass. In a 3 way speaker a 10" woofer is about ideal. It only matters for orchestra or meaty, loud rock. If it's small scale acoustic music I think bookshelves and a sub are fine. |
The conversation takes on a circuitous flavor. Some just want more bass; not necessarily distinct bass, but more of it, driving. Others want to hear the bowing differences between Eddie Gomez and Ray Brown. Yet others want both. And there is the rub. Non-ported bookshelf speakers are usually better at the distinct characteristic while struggling with the driving bass delivery. They usually image better too. Floorstanders do the volume delivery thing while struggling with the distinct. They give the boom boom boom. And, it's tough to make them disappear like bookshelf monitors. It takes a lot to nail down the perfect storm of both (distinct bass, driving bass) done really well. I've found attention to detail upstream to delivery just as much as the speaker itself. Proper cabling rectified as much as speaker design, isolation, positioning and room treatment. It's all a game of step-by-step analysis and improvement in the entire chain. The weakest link syndrome. Best of luck on the journey. |
@secretguy don’t many proponents of stand mounts talk about superior imaging? That’s what I always heard the advantages were, along with cost, etc. |
@secretguy: Nah
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I also thought that it makes no sense to go with stand-mounted speakers that take the same floorspace as floor standing speakers. But, there are many examples of stand mounted speakers that are really good and sound better than many comparably sized and priced floor standing speakers. One should not automatically make assumptions based on general characteristics. |
Bookshelves+stands and floorstanders typically have the same footprint. When a dude's claiming he saved space, he did not ( it was just psychological for the dude). Unless you're stuck with nearfield listening distances (where drivers don't have room to sum) or budget constraints, don't bother with dinky lil bookshelves. When a manufacturer offers both floorstanders and bookshelves, typically the engineer's maximum time and devotion goes to the floorstander (the bookshelf's the dinky lil afterthought). Always go with the floorstander when possible. |
Are you using a subwoofer? Room correction? Are you using them all around or just in the front? Looking at the Stereophile measurements, these don’t seem to be full range speakers at al, but close to the HT definition of a satellite. They are amplifier punishing below 150 Hz, along with a 100 Hz output peak and, while ported, the port adds very little to the overall output. If you really like the sound quality, and are using some sort of EQ, either vai Roon or room correction, my suggestions would be:
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Book shelves in all honesty mid 40hz if you are very lucky you need agood power subwoofer or 2 like the Svs SB4000 not ported seamed sub it’s faster and more accurate . That’s for sure depending on budget. the 805 B&W a very nice book shelf ,much better stil the MBL 126 stand mount my favorite with matching stands in the $16k range. |
@ltmandella maybe I’m mis-labeling my speakers as “bookshelves” when they’re really “stand mounts”….I have Legacy’s Studio HD speakers. They’re about the same size as your DeCapos. I actually considered yours before I bought my mine. |
Good advice from @soix Might check in with The Music Room, Ascend Audio or Zu Audio ... especially Ascend. All have models in budget and have 30 day return policies. |
Bookshelves that are well made will thump just as well as many floorstanders. Genelec 8351B or Dynaudio Confidence/Contour lines, or ProAc. And if you really need the low end, which in modern city apartments is seldom missed on speakers like these, you can add subwoofers which add value to floorstanding too. Note that Genelecs are 3-way, as are Dutch & Dutch or Kii Three. If you have the space of a gigantic house to house floorstanding , sure. But the notion that you need that format for a "full range" sound is tediously passe. |
There is a middle ground between floor standers and bookshelf speakers. Stand mounts they are called. I own a pair of Reference3A DeCapo I "stand mounters". Way too big for bookshelves, but half the height of floorstanders. Surprisingly copious cabinet volume which of course helps the bass. I think they are 10 or 12" midwoofers. I tried Proac Floorstanders, they were magnificent but required too much power (this was before Class D and I am a Class A/Tube guy). The DeCapos are 90/dbw and incredibly musical... |
It is really hard to say what is the best general approach you should take, much less specific recommendations. The larger cabinets of a floorstanding speaker suggests deeper and stronger bass response, but whether that is “better” is hard to hazard a guess. I once heard a demonstration of two ProAc speakers—one a bookshelf speaker on a stand, the other a more expensive floorstanding speaker—both were good, but I preferred the smaller, cheaper, speaker. As for subwoofers, I find them to be a bit tricky to properly integrate into a system, and I don’t like having to constantly fiddle with adjustment. How deep must your bass go to be satisfying? I think most people will be surprised about what constitutes great sounding bass. I know a custom builder who makes systems that sell for as much as six figures. He now uses 18” woofers that are made to his specifications. They are designed to deliver a wide frequency range and a very fast and clear sound, which means very light cones and restricted excursion. I hear what is great bass from these gigantic woofers and was surprised to find out that went down only to around 40 hz. |
@carlsbad2 i think a lot of people on here would disagree with that, but I think there definitely are situations where bookshelves are out of the question. |
@celtic66 I don’t have a lot of knowledge of those. I’ll check them out. |
If you like the sound of your excellent monitors I’d seriously consider adding a couple good subs to fill in the bottom octaves. You’ll get down to an honest 20Hz or below, which most floorstanders can’t, and the subs will let you better integrate the bass into your room. A pair of SVS SB2000 Pro subs will cost you as little as $1700, and they offer a totally risk free, 45-day trial including shipping both ways so absolutely no risk to you. They also include an app that lets you dial in the subs from your listening chair with your phone, which is really nice, and they also offer excellent customer support should you need it. I’d highly recommend exploring this in your situation, and best of luck. |