@kennyc yeah, crazy.
Should I graduate to floor standers or will larger bookshelves suffice?
Hey guys,
I moved into a larger space several years ago, more of an open floor plan, and soon realized that my current speakers, Legacy Studio HD, in a surround array, might be a bit overwhelmed. It’s a weird, asymmetrical space, but it’s also significantly larger than my previous one. So the title of my post says it all…can I still get adequate coverage with bookshelf speakers, or do I now need floor standers? A friend told me to basically “sit closer to the tv” but that isn’t practical.
I thought about the Calibres from Legacy as an option, which is about my price range…up to 7k or so. I also see all these great internet only brands, like Fritz, or Philharmonic, etc, and I hear about their prodigious extension and sound stage, but can these bookshelves fill my room, or any room for that matter?
Let me also add, I have no problem graduating to floor standers, so suggestions are also welcome.
Thanks in advance.
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@kennyc - What are MSB 120 and 126? The only MSB I'm familiar with makes very high-end DACs and amps, not speakers. |
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@jonasandezekiel you’re not crazy, I was trying to agree with you that your bases are likely covered on power and bass. No matter what kind of speakers you choose, with your room, some digital signal processing like Dirac Live might be beneficial, especially for bass management. You’ve gotten lots of good advice on different speakers to look at, I have nothing to add other than good tone, timbre and PRAT can help distract to some degree from less than perfect room acoustics. Good luck, kn |
@knownothing so, maybe I’m just crazy? It’s ok, I can take it. |
@jonasandezekiel roger that. |
@knownothing my amplification is more than adequate, ( I use class d monos) and I have an excellent subwoofer, JL audio f112. All bases, I think, are covered. I was thinking about changing over to a multichannel amp for convenience, but later for that. |
Plus one to all the suggestions to explore subs as a way to extend the life of your current speakers in a larger space. Also, plus one to @erik_squires suggestion to check your amplification. Your Studio HDs are power hungry. https://www.stereophile.com/content/legacy-audio-studio-hd-loudspeaker |
Here's a link to C Shaws new OB speaker https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/new-speakers-unveiled-from-clayton-shaw-caladan
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I think if you are talking about the same money the floor standing speakers will always sound better or at least project louder and provide more sound. As multiple folks have said it makes zero sense because the stands take up about the same floor space. For me speakers must be functional, attractive and sound good. |
@tweak1 I have really good stands, yes. I tried looking up Clayton online, and couldn’t find any links to a website. |
@mapman they look really good. Definitely not a wimpy stand mount. Great suggestion. |
Having a similar large open room, IMO, OB (open baffle) will give you the best overall experience. Monitors need quality $tands. Clayton’s new OB speaker * (MSRP $2950) looks like they will provide an excellent presentation: subs questionable https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRrgJ-_npls see my Virtual System hth
hth |
maybe hang onto both for awhile while you compare sonic presentations? Seems very educational and fun. @kennyc I could possibly do that. I’m not the type to hang onto speakers, but they’ve been good to me. They sounded great in my previous residence. |
Me too. Although I prefer and own floor standers for maximum fidelity, space and time, and budget permitting I'd like to explore stand mounts:
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@jonasandezekiel Can you keep both, or maybe hang onto both for awhile while you compare sonic presentations? Seems very educational, and fun. |
@kennyc yeah, I agree, but no way can I find and demo all these different brands and models, especially of course the internet only ones. Unfortunately, this has become a common way to buy speakers these days. And yes to the stand mount/floorstander dilemma as well. But I’ve always had a soft spot for stand mounts. Though I think the only way I’m getting another stand mount is if it’s larger than what I have, with more output in the bass. |
I’m just going to weigh in on this from a enjoy the music point of view. I have a unique tune Amp and Harbeth P3ESRs running from a Node2 in my office. It’s nice. I have a Cary Audi front end into Fritz bookshelves in my formal living room. My floorstanders aren’t even in tje same discussion. They are both awesome...but graduate and have some fun with a big 2 channel system that doesn’t ever make you think about a sub. |
OP- I heard the Revel be speakers at audio shows and I liked the sound. Also got some favorable reviews. But I know some didn’t care for the sound. Like most thing high-end audio it’s a matter of subjective sonic preferences - it’s best to listen for yourself to find what “you” like. Floorstanders are generally superior because of the added bass extension which was tuned to match the midrange and tweeter. While one could get a stand mount and supplement with subwoofers, but matching is typically difficult and usually subpar than a floorstander. On a side note many use a subwoofer fill out and/or add bass energy. However, some including myself plan to use “articulate” subwoofers to match my “articulate” full range floorstanders to reach lower bass AND to support the rest of the upper frequencies (it fill it out for a more full/complete sound). |
@ddgtt wow those Kaya speakers are just gorgeous and unique! I’m a sucker for a pretty face. I didn’t research the price yet….I’m sure good looks come at a premium. |
I have not heard the revel’s ..but there are alot of fans of the speaker.I would get tired of the white drivers...i know kind of petty?.Some diggin in and finding reviews/articles helps...somewhat.Im on a pair of atc 19v2/sound anchor 24" and for what they want for them (atc19) these days.. its a bargain imho. |
@digsmithd they look very nice, and the reviews look great as well… any opinions about the Revel 226be? They have a REALLY NICE sale on them at Music Direct. |
As has been mentioned in a few different ways, to get the best performance out of a bookshelf speaker they really need to be on their dedicated stands. A slender floor standing speaker takes the same amount of space. But because the floor stander is optimizing cabinet volume (when properly designed) it has the ability to give greater bass extension. Others have suggested subwoofers to accompany a pair of bookshelf speakers. But now you're getting into the ideal of being able to properly blend the subwoofer with the smaller stand mounted speakers. If you are a careful listener you'll likely find (in most cases) the sonic discontinuities troubling. Why not go for the floor stander within that loudspeaker's series. One of the best slender floor standing speakers you'll ever encounter is the Vivid Audio Kaya K25. The bass is amazing and the sound is coherent, smooth, and 3D. |
I'll second the Legacy Calibre. I have the XD model and I bi amp them with a Rogue Cronus Magnum running the mids/highs and the powerful XD internal amps powering the bass. They are like a floorstander in a big bookshelf package. The have an 8" woofer with two passive 8" radiators, a 7.5" midwoofer and a large AMT ribbon tweeter. Not many bookshelves can boast of that kind of firepower. The drivers are all substantial, high end components. Highly recommended. |
Yeah, the BMRs are low sensitivity, but then so are most stand-mount speakers in reality. Despite exaggerated specs that many manufacturers like to claim, it’s rare to encounter a medium size stand-mount speaker with a sensitivity over 86dB. I don’t see your amp mentioned in this thread, but if you have at least 150 WPC/4-ohm at your disposal, you should be fine with any of the BMR models. And though stand-mounts generally image better (often not by much), they nearly always necessitate the need for a subwoofer, especially in a large room. That’s a whole other can of worms. I used to be a fan of stand-mount/subwoofer combos but finally concluded the small benefit in imaging doesn’t outweigh the hassle of sub integration. Seems no matter the speaker/sub combo, they never blend quite perfectly. I couldn’t even get them to blend right when using an active crossover designed specifically for that purpose. As for overall sound quality, you’d be hard pressed to find anything around $7K that remotely approaches the Philharmonics. Who else fits >$2K worth of drivers into $4300/pair speakers (HT Towers)? The HT Towers have a relatively slim baffle so they should image pretty well and take up approximately the same footprint as stand-mounts. |
@helomech those speakers really interest me. I’ve read nothing but glowing reviews for them, it’s almost a “too good to be true” situation. I’ve also read from the stand mount fans that the bookshelves are even better because they image unbelievably. The floorstanders appear to have no weaknesses, except for possibly low sensitivity. I’m close to pulling the trigger on them. |
Klipsch Cornwall IV or Forte IV. Nothing fills a large space like horns. Aside from a speaker upgrade you get an amplifier upgrade as well since it won't have to work nearly as hard. The Cornwall and Forte are close in performance, with the Cornwall offering just a bit more of everything, but they tend to dominate a physically and aesthetically which is either a pro or con depending upon your perspective. |
@brownred6 i agree, and I hear that a lot. But, my question remains, can they fill a large room? |
I’m a little older and listen to a couple different genres. Last night was Slayer ,Wilco and Dylan. Today it’s a good version of Carnina Burvana(spelling?). I’ve owned many pairs of floor standers at a top new price point of around $10k. Lots of B&W’s ,floor standers and stand mounts ,Quads ,Revels ,Wilson’s ,Dynaudio ,on and on over the years. I’m not a spec reader or wavelength expert but I know what sounds great and for me I’ve never heard floorstanders that stood up and pleased me for very long. The magic of evolved BBC monitor type speakers is what I like and now own. I have big Harbeths for my streaming and mid sized Harbeths for my turntable. Spendors I hook up every so often. I love them ,I’m keeping them and I know there is a magic to these speakers that appeals to me. And to a lot of others |
@goose interesting guy, I’ll say that…. |
I don't have dog in this hunt. Mikey at OCD Hi-fi has the Fischer & Fischer (stand mount speakers) for sale. He is a dealer and somewhat of the anti establishment audio guy but does have good gear. I heard these on his site and was impressed with their sound relative to their price so you never know. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAGS2UFrxJM&t=352s |
@bassdude thanks, those definitely are on my radar for candidates. They look perfect, and they should be able to handle my larger room. |
The Legacy Calibres are superb and have the advantage of a great soundstage because they are a hybrid open baffle / dipole speaker, which provides a dispersion similar to Maggies, but with better bass and dynamics. I’ve got some great speakers (Linkwitz Orions, Magnestand Maggies, Harbeth 40.2’s, Emerald Physics 3.3’s, etc…) - and I like the Calibres because their sound rivals the others, but they are in a much smaller package, which is much easier to move and position. |
@jacobsdad2000 its funny how I hear that a lot, as well as on this thread. Which is obviously why I asked that question in the first place. Do I just need a better speaker as a stand mount than my current one? I’m willing to spend a good deal more money…maybe that’s all I need. Or will only floorstanders suffice? |
