Has anyone tested whether one of the cheaper (<$30) versions are more effective outside of its plastic case or whether it works just the same?
Schumann Resonator
I got 2 of these from Amazon...careful that free returns are applicable. I charged them up, turned them on and holy moly.....they do help with my system. What I hear is clarity....space between instruments, a definite difference in upright and electric bass, wider soundstage...you know...all the good stuff. At first I thought it might be increased brightness, but no....it is still the same in that regard. I still can't believe it, and will listen again tomorrow (saved the packaging for the return)...but today, I'm about to keep them.
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Since I’m certain that a few members already consider me a tweaky wacko for using and endorsing Schumann resonators, I will reinforce that view by stating that I took Mahgister’s advice, and placed the shungite plates and the Herkimer diamonds (a type of quartz crystal) on top of each resonator a couple of months ago, and yes, they do change the sound. Without the crystal, in my system, it was better defined but too dry. With the crystal, just right. |
Thanks for your impressions... I am an open creative free spirit and i try to not invoke my beliefs or my doubts to justify my fear or laziness.... Call me a wacko.... I prefer to be an outcast than to be in the crowds of professional sceptics or in the crowds of zealots... I dont fear and dont mind to be mocked because i sell nothing, save creativity, and all my devices are cheap and modified or my own complete homemade creations....It is impossible to call that "snake oil", and calling all of them at once " placebos" is preposterous... «Crowds of lemmings, apes or humans act exactly the same if they are crowds»-Anonymus smith |
Mmm....OK, being the 'devils' advocate' of sorts to some, a PIA to others... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schumann_resonances#Basic_theory Now, I won't argue with anyone's' impressions of what a SR unit 'does' to ones' comprehension of the response and their response to their audio systems. After all, some have spent considerable sums on IC's and other wire elements, risers, et all... After all, 'to each..' ..etc. But to attest that a 10$+ device (I can almost believe that a 1K$+ unit Might) begin to effect one's apprehension of the response of one's equipment in Earths' atmosphere based on the physics explained with the Wiki link above.... I might 'give it a go'....I've spent more on more 'mind-melting items' in the past, but I suspect that I'm more of an outlier than MOR in the assembled posters here....;) Based on the commentary posted, I'd ensure any sales meeting with a client would Demand having a portable SG unit in the kit....if only to 'mellow out' the client so they don't gasp with our quotes.... (I was 'schooled' by a successful owner of a previous employment that if the client doesn't 'suck air' when quoted, you're too cheap...) The other 'splaination is that y'all are all on drugs or 'lit' at the same time, which is impractical and unlikely. Expound further, PLS. |
Being a pulse frequency, I not sure any speaker made could produce the wave. My simple understanding is, it is a low frequency magnetic pulse that helps nullify EMI etc. On the music front, I liken it to a subwoofer’s effect on bringing in the whole spectrum of music to create overall better balance. Given the SR is a very, very low sub frequency, I would think it would be a similar thing, balancing out subsonics to ultimately bring the system to an even finer level of balance. Just a concept. |
Little has been said about what is the active effect giving rise to perception of improved sound quality. Given (1) the reported effects of these waves on humans and (2) the 7.83Hz frequency is well below the bottom of the audible audio band, it seems to me that any effect it has on perceived sound from an audio system it more likely to be caused by its effect on the listener than by its effect on the sound in the room or on system components. I posit it is likely it is the well-being effect of the waves on the listener that is improving his/her perception of the sound quality. His level of well being has changed, not the sound. Another aspect that has not been touched on here is the the volume of the output. Does the beneficial effect increase as the volume of the waves is increased? If so, is there some limiting point? Some postings state adding further generators causes bigger improvements in perceived SQ. So it could follow that higher volume from one generator could do the same. Since signals at this low frequency are very non-directional, I posit that one high volume generator will have similar effect to multiple lower volume ones. Moving on, when I can again eat at a top restaurant should I take a Schumann generator with me? My perception of the quality of the food may rise as a result of my heightened feeling of well being. Other diners may remark on the difference. While I am in bed with my wife...... Should I carry one at all times? |
@clearthinker - I think the way the system’s sound hits our ears is directly related to how we perceive the sound. On any day, if I sit just a few feet from my primary listening spot, the sound changes because the sound waves hit my ear differently due to the directionality of the waves and reflections in the room. Holographic imaging is likely lost. The resonator affects sound waves in the same way. Though it may only emit 7.83hz frequencies, remember that frequencies’ phasing intersect at the top of the wave and phase out at the bottom of the wave, and effects can be generated as frequencies intersect at their intervals (e.g. if perfectly in phase, 7.83hz may affect 15hz every two cycles, 30hz every four cycles, 60hz every eight, etc). That way this affects may cancel some frequencies, amplify others, but it brings a “pattern” into the way it may do it, which in most times will likely “clean” it a little and bring a sense of satisfaction. |
bhvf44 posts02-23-2021 6:21pmI read through that. It's where I got the above quote. No good answers but I found the DIY forum post I'm going to read through while listening to this awesome Billy Strings concert at the Cap Theater. Highly recommend for any jam/folk/bluegrass fans. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I went through this a few months back. I was asking all kinds of questions... LOL Just get a few.. Your brain actually "ticks" at the 7.83. LOL I think mine is tickin' a little slower, than some.. "little boxes you plug into the wall produce electromagnetic radiation tuned to 7.83 Hz. This is the frequency that the earth/atmosphere “rings” at when the Earth is struck by lightning. It is also a common frequency your brain “ticks” at." It is strange, but it changed my perception of what I hear, or the environment I'm listening in.. I think of it as the pink room effect less the negative effect of over exposure, via SUB sonic @ very very low DB. I just don't like some of the nomenclature used to describe it "RADIATION".. Sounds pretty sterile.. LOL Regards |
On the music front, I liken it to a subwoofer’s effect on bringing in the whole spectrum of music to create overall better balance. Given the SR is a very, very low sub frequency, I would think it would be a similar thing, balancing out subsonics to ultimately bring the system to an even finer level of balance. Just a concept.Interestings remark... Adding subs not only add bass frequencies but also cause probably some "dither" effect...... It is this effect which is at the root of the effect of the S.G. not a special "placebo" effect mainly or a magical transformation of the hearing quality.... I compared the different noise floors of all the devices and gear in the house connected together producing a general noise floor to an ice that hide details of information under his noisy cold envelope.... The S.G. work breaking this ice, then decreasing the general noise floor and making each piece of gear to better communicate his information, letting more details emerge to the listener... This citation i repeat here give an idea about this "dither" concept:
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This is where Geoff Kaitt is sorely missed. He could explain it and add a quiz, plus tell us how it affects wormholes. Thankfully, I haven’t encountered any rips in the fabric of reality when I used the one I bought.When i introduced him to my Schumann generators cabled grid modified by my "golden plates" and Herkimer diamond, he bought some but never give me a review about them... And never explained to me why they work if they work.... I figured it myself.... He knows already for sure what a Schumann Generator is...But never used them in a grid of 12 modified by G.P. connected by cables with a series of cheap one fron China like me.... Because of costs it is not possible to connect many Acoustic Revive S.G.... Then after reading their pubilicity i chose the chinese one 2 yeears ago....And he has never explained to me why they work, save explaining why they cant work because of antenna problem etc....It was not easy asking him questions...He answered in riddles.... It was funny tough....😊 Any way i created all my devices by myself and i never bought "tweaks"... I tried to think about the basic phenomena in audio at low or no costs by my own listenings experiments... I succeeed in some way.... For me it is something that decrease the noise level powerful destructive effect by adding a dithering frequency that is powerful because it was one near the atmosphere resonance with the earth....I am not a scientist but this is the more plausible beginning of an explanation i can think about.... The dithering frequency break the homogenuity of the noise floor encompassing "ice " coat of your house, hiding the details of the information... Remember that all the gear of your house are interconnected to a general noise floor...ALL of your electrical appliances add noise of his own making to the general noise floor.... I even created my own homemade devices to specidically decrease this noise floor, i dont only use the S.G. grid, i also use a grid of "Golden Plates" all along my house electrical grid decreasing also in an other way the general noise floor...I used them distributed from the exterrnal house main electrical meter box to the wall electrical plugs passing by the main router of the computer etc.... This is what i call the electrical grid embeddings controls.... I sell nothing, all is free, i sell creativity at peanuts price.... Audio is not upgrading gear it is implementing triple embeddings controls...Mechanical, electrical and acoustical.... Dont upgrade anything before embedding everything the right way.... |
How many of you have been in an MRI machine? In an MRI machine you are being literally roasted electro-magnetically. The field is so strong screwdrivers have been flung through walls. Any magnetic material will get extremely hot burning the subject. But, when you are in one, except for the claustrophobia you are just fine. There are absolutely no known detrimental side effects unlike CT scanning which bombards you with 2-400 CXRs worth of ionizing radiation. Just what do think a puny little 5 volt subsonic oscillator is going to do? Waste electricity. That is it. Any benefit is purely psychological. If this helps you think your system sounds better, who am I to argue. It will not last. |
Any benefit is purely psychological. If this helps you think your system sounds better, who am I to argue. It will not last.Instead of doubting others experience which is useless....Why not thinking about OTHER things than trying to contradict their experiences with a superficial argument and trying by yourself? A 20 bucks experience... But remember that it is NOT the first embedding controls i recommend because the noise floor levels of an audio system could be too high to make the listener able to detect the effects...Anyway many people has verified his potency in their room...All across the world already by the way.... If you think that we are not a gullible bunch of idiots all of us, you can certainly think that we are perfectly able to think about your perpetual placebo counter argument by ourself and we dont wait for you to enlighten us about it... We are perfectly able to observe that, by accident , by chance or by experiments, when the Schumann generators are disconnected, the sound is always affected.... There is a placebo effect linked to all new devices, the main experiments is precisely related to the CUMULATIVE experiments that will rule the placebo effect out for an ultimate explanation... Adding for example shungite or Herkimer diamond to the S.G. will affect always in the same degree but not in the same direction the quality of sound.... No more placebo effect here.... Save for zealots repeating their mantras.... Think and experiment or let yourself stick to your equalizer.... |
Just what do think a puny little 5 volt subsonic oscillator is going to do?By the way i can change completely the sound in a room with ONLY one straw and with an audible effect similar to an amplifier upgrade and even more powerful... ONE SINGLE ORDINARY STRAW location and lenght can change completely the sound of a room.... Why ? Placebo effect ?....Think again..... Or read my posts..... A clue: Helmholtz science.... There is more in the world than placebo effect to explain it, doctor "i know everything and i doubt everything".... « Thinking is forgetting all we know to rethink it anew»-Anonymus Smith |
mahgister- When i introduced him to my Schumann generators cabled grid modified by my "golden plates" and Herkimer diamond, he bought some but never give me a review about them... And never explained to me why they work if they work.... I figured it myself.... Of course not. He never explained anything in any of his 22k posts. To anyone who thinks different, I challenge you to find even one post where he explains something. Good luck! He knows already for sure what a Schumann Generator is....And he has never explained to me why they work, save explaining why they cant work because of antenna problem etc....It was not easy asking him questions...He answered in riddles.... It’s called word salad. Even his riddles are word salad. For me it is something that decrease the noise level powerful destructive effect by adding a dithering frequency that is powerful because it was one near the atmosphere resonance with the earth.... Beautifully put! Thank you! Now watch this. People have asked how this works. You just explained how it works. But nobody will get it. Went right over their heads. Brainiac blathering about MR. Totally missing the point- absolutely uninterested in getting at the truth. Obsessed with arguments going nowhere. It is all so depressingly repetitious. Except every once in a while we get something good, like your posts. Thank you for that! |
The "dithering" analogy is as good an explanation as any and better than most. I don't think it is psychological, but I did find that some people didn't experience it or notice a difference. And I'm one who actually prefers my system without it, so I'm not inclined to view it through the lense of expectation bias. I mentioned Geoff only b/c he was always on the fringe with some wild stuff and meant it in a light-hearted way-- I had no issue with him, personally. |
And I'm one who actually prefers my system without it, I already explain that i prefer the S.G. in my grid to be modified.... Because the effect is good but could be a nit in the negative direction in some system.... Then i balanced the effect with 2 powerful means: the golden plate will make the effect going more with an acuentuation of the mid frequencies and the Herkimer diamond more with an accentuation of the higher frequencies, then adding the 2 operate a perfect balance in the S.G. effect... Try it, you may change your mind about the addition of the S.G. Some people did not experience this audible "dithering" effect of the S.G. frequency because it is an audible effect but NOT so powerful in some case, it cannot erase by itself ONLY some of the negative effects of the many noise levels: mechanical noise level, electrical noise level, acoustical noise level... I NEVER recommend it for the first and only acoustical or electrical controls embeddings....WHY? Because i know first hand that a room and a house and an audio system uncontrolled, like many systems of many owners here, are not always optimally under control and often not controlled at all... Then listening to this effect very audible in some minimal conditions is not always possible in other conditions... Dithering frequency work but dont create miracles... Helmholtz tubes and pipes grid work miracles way more huge than my S.G. grid so good it is.... My "golden plates" are more powerful also.... In the last 2 years i created around 200 hundred connections between devices in my room.... They all work but some are not powerful like others.... I mentioned Geoff only b/c he was always on the fringe with some wild stuff and meant it in a light-hearted way-- I had no issue with him, personally. I had no real issue with him and in fact i miss his humor....I try to have no personal issue with anyone and i speak to all who want a discussion... I am only a bit impatient with those who stick with blinders.... At least Geoffkait never stick to dogmas.... I am unorthodox myself then.... |
You say light-hearted. I say mean-spirited and malevolent. The challenge now is to find one genuinely light-hearted post. Every single one of his jokes that I ever say was at the expense of someone else. His whole website is one big stick in the eye. The guy took pure word salad- "morphic fields" - claimed he could use them to make your system sound better with a phone call, and charged thousands of dollars for it! That is NOT light hearted! Sorry he sucked you in. If it is any consolation you were not the only one. But rest assured: you were suckered, that was his goal, and there was never anything light-hearted about it. |
Millercarbon you must know firsthand that unorthodox people and those who speak too bluntly or frankly made half the crowd hating them.... 😊 I am in no crowd i dont hate people here....I talked to G. like i talked to you, and i tried to take the good which is in all of us.... My only impatience is sometimes with too "straight" people.... I am not perfect....I like creative and open mind.... I am only interested to making friends here being confined and working no more and talking about audio....They are a very different characters here and i love most of them with my heart.... |
But it is a good guess for a totally baseless claim.You are wrong.... "Dither", It is only a guess by me because it makes sense with what i experienced....I dont have any other explanation...I am not a scientist... It is not "necessarily" a good guess like you said, yes i could be wrong....But i could be right... But your affirmation on the other hand about "baseless claim" is TOTALLY wrong...and bad faith on your part... For decades audiophiles experienced it around the world and report it in ALL audio thread...They are not all liars, or deluded one....The audible effect they CLAIM they experience is not BASELESS...The probabilty that they are all liars and deluded one is way less than the probability of yourself speaking non sense about something you never experience by yourself.... Take less time hating people here, because of your blinders and few minutes to think each day....Why not experimenting yourself at peanuts cost? Too lazy? Too obtuse mind? Do your hobby is mocking those who report their experiments? Myself i experimented with my OWN devices what i speak about and only bought few bucks devices i modified, then never buying any costly tweaks, i know THEN by MY listening experiments what i speak about...Not by selling or advertising tweaks or buying ready made tweaks... I sell peanuts cost homemade creativity....What do you sell? Hate for a ghost? I dont hate people here, i am only annoyed by stupidity and especially by bad faith.... By the way you can end your hating "geoffkait" machine, he is no more here....in spite of all his defects he was funny and creative....Not always easy but who are ? Read the scripture story of the straw and the beam....That will help.... |
maghister read up on dither and you will see why that is totally different than Schumann resonance. There is nothing hateful about seeking facts and truths. Geofkait spent his entire career here obfuscating and obstructing. That was the game he liked to play at expense of others. Not to mention the outright name calling and other miscreant acts like wishing cancer on people. As a seeker of truth as I believe you to be you should decry obfuscation not condone it as just another way of doing things that is somehow OK. It is destructive not constructive behavior and I know you know the difference. Some things matter. Cheers! |
If its the same frequency and not opposite phase then you could be supplementing it to some extent. Or similarly cancelling it to some extent if out of phase How much either way could vary widely depending on device and relative phase. A phase adjustment similar to that found on better subwoofers might be a useful feature. |
maghister read up on dither and you will see why that is totally different than Schumann frequency.Anyone know that S.G. frequency and dither are 2 different things.... What is proposed is that this frequency act like a dithering effect...a constant noise working in increasing the information like a "dither" effect... Dithering effect exist not only in mechanical system but manifest also in digital processing and even in electro magnetic frequencies resonant scaling effects....Even in laser optic for example.... Then... Proposing a dithering effect coming from this frequency resonant manifestation of the earth atmosphere could make sense... I am not a scientist.... As a seeker of truth as I believe you to be you should decry obfuscation not condone it as just another way of doing things that is somehow OK. it is destructive not constructive behavior and I know you know the difference. I apologize for being too rude with you and unjust.... I had difficulties here with people siding against one another... I am sorry for my too harsh reaction.... You are not what i said you are... My deepest regards from my heart.... |
If it’s the Earth’s natural frequency, then that frequency is already in the room. Why would you need to generate it?The S.G. grid amplify it....And his harmonics.... Then adding a form of powerful noise that act to the signals like a dithering factor.... By the way the Schumann frequencies linked to earth are a SET of spectrum peaks more than a single frequency like the Schumann generator.... But my explanation is ONLY a guess... What i know for sure is that my S.G. grid work in my room.... My best to you with cold mate.....Or hot one..... |
Maghister thing is dithering typically means introduction of random patterns as a way to simulate greater detail. Schumann as I understand it is a resonance...not a random pattern. So the two would seem to be totally different. I developed digital imaging systems in a past life for use by NASA and others, including dithering algorithms, so I do know a bit about that. I don’t see anything in what I read about Schumann Resonance that would relate to dither. Just saying.... I am not discounting that Schumann resonance may have some positive effect on what one hears if done properly. I read it is believed to have some impact on the brain so that could account for people hearing things differently. |
About GK GK rubbed virtually everyone including me the wrong way, but in the end I thought he came off as one smart individual. He discussed a variety of audio topics, and fascinating nonaudio topics, as if he had first hand knowledge. We know his faults are legendary, but unlike some at least he did not mindlessly bore us to tears by repeating the same advertisements for the same two or three brands they own. Well, GK did mention the superior qualities of his Sony Walkman often. No fuses, no interconnects, off the grid, you know the spiel. I would not have voted him off the island. |
Re: The man from Uncle......There is no brand name on these things 7.83HZ Schumann Wave Ultra-Low Frequency Pulse Generator & Audio Resonator, Schumann Resonance Wave Pulse Generator with USB Cable & Screwdriver The screwdriver is there to take the thing apart...there is no adjustments on it. When you plug it in and it charges there's a green light....when you turn it on (tiny switch on the side) its blue |
Maghister thing is dithering typically means introduction of random patterns as a way to simulate greater detail.You know much than me about dithering i will not contest that at all... But is the imprecise varying frequencies of the cheap S.G. around a theorical 7.83 Hz but being more an oscillating device around 4 hertz and ten hertz with their harmonics dont mimic a random pattern effect on the homogenuous noise level of the house? I ask the question? |
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Maghister if the devices are introducing white noise or some other form of random noise, that is a totally different thing than the Schumann resonance that they are banking on. The two could certainly work in combo, but are still two different things. FWIW if any compensation I too would not have voted GK off the island at least based on what he posted. I have always been against censorship. Don't know why he got removed but chances are he probably deserved it because he was here for a number of years before apparently getting the axe. IMHO, his posts hurt this site's credibility in many ways but he was always primed to defend esoteric tweaks so I'm sure there was some benefit there to someone. Regardless, I wish him well in his new endeavors. |
GK was one of, if not the first, proponent of springs for isolation on Audiogon. Do a thread search.True he speak with me of that.... And i bought set of springs to make exsperiments with.... And i discover how to decrease the resonance in my box speakers with a dyssimetric applying force between the 2 sets i install on each of my speakers using a different compressive force on each with great results... But he use the spring incorrectly, unsing only one set under undamped box speakers... |
Why are so many members obsessed with HOW it works? It works, and that is all you need to know, aside from the fact that almost anyone with a roof over their head can afford it. I'm sure that there are some members who already consider me a tweaky wacko for using one, and I would like to reinforce that belief by adding that I also took Mahgister's advice concerning adding Shungite tile and Herkimer diamonds (a type of quartz crystal) to the resonator so months ago. Yes, it does have a positive effect on the sound. Shungite alone is more detailed but too dry. Withe the added crystal, it's just right. |
Maghister if the devices are introducing white noise or some other form of random noise, that is a totally different thing than the Schumann resonance that they are banking on. The two could certainly work in combo, but are still two different things.Yes and i never expected that a cheap chinese 10 bucks S.G. would produce an exact and stable 7,83 hertz... They are more a random generator AROUND a set of frequencies, those called Schumann... Then they could act with a dithering effect? i ask the question... Market publicity is NOT reality.... These cheap generator CANNOT produce a stable precise signals the same in each other when measured.... It is and it was my opinion.... Then they produce a random variation around a set of frequencies... For example between 4 hertz and 10 hertz randomly....They then can act with some dithering audible effect... What do you think? |
Hmm well if the design intent is to produce a certain frequency but device cannot do that cleanly , then one would hope the noise or distortion it introduces in addition were randomized. IS that what these devices claim or are we just speculating? I have no clue. Who makes these things? Crosley? Just kidding....testing maghisters sense of humor today..... In nature, from what I read, it sounds like echoes of the Shumann resonance frequency would be somewhat randomized, like echoes one hears of thunder after a strike. When our kids were little, we ran white noise generators at night to help them sleep better. No resonance but random generated audible white noise (like dither). Worked like a charm! Those devices have been around for quite a while. Seems like a suitable sound meter that was sensitive in the Schumann frequency range could help put a lot of questions to rest. If its there, it can be measured for sure. |
I never believe that a 10 bucks device will stay at 7,83 hertz... It is precisely why these cheap device work better perhaps than very costly one... I bet that their range vary between someting like 10 hertz and 4 hertz around their alleged 7,83 hertz... At this price is Chinese designer meticulously verify the frequency 7,83 hertz ?.... Asking the question is answering it.... 😊 It is the reason why the dithering effect work....Introducing a random variation around this frequency.... People who sells this S.G. sell the "mythical" non existant exact 7,83 hertz frequency....It is an oscillating average in reality... Because the earth resonance vary around this frequency and is not always exactly that one and more than that the shumann resonance is a set of peaks around it and his harmonics....Not the single perfect 7,83 hertz.... In nature, from what I read, it sounds like echoes of the Shumann resonance frequency would be somewhat randomized, like echoes one hears of thunder after a strike.It seems we understand each other .... My best to you.... Remember that i am not an english speaker, then my understanding of subtle humor is sometimes lost in translation...I must admit that i am a bit too reactive also and not alway subtle.... 😊😁 |
I’ll buy that with the reservation that these devices also surely are not sophisticated enough to generate controlled or specifically designed dither to achieve the desired effect. That generally would require digital processing, not analog. Whatever is generated off frequency happens by other means...random or not.... The devil is in the details. Resonance frequencies never exist alone or at one single frequency only. Maybe this is a case where a cheap design in fact achieves the desired purpose. If you actually start hearing something, THEN there might be a real problem...... Anyway interesting discussion. No hatred involved. |
My only other reservation about these devices is that usually a lot of power is required to produce SPLs at a low frequency. Think powered subwoofer that goes down to 20hz, 10-15 max. How do these little inexpensive devices achieve that? Class D amplification? Inquiring minds want to know. Don't know how they pull that off unless very low SPLs are sufficient to achieve the desired effect. Or placebo effect? Both possible. I'll leave it to others to figure out which and let me know. |
I will say, I am not a cool aide drinker, never have been. In fact, I am the guy that looks to refute the popular norm. Particularly anything that might look too good to be true. After researching the SG, it seems to have some veracity. Not only in the musical realm, but in life. In my case, on... sounds like x, off sounds like y. It just DOES. Here is the rub, a doc friend of mine once told me, during a conversation about glucosamine, that it didn’t matter why it worked. If one were to take it, felt better, then that is all that matters as long as no harm was being done. He wasn’t a fan personally, but he recommended it to his patients, as the majority seemed to feel better taking it. Purely anecdotal, but the result spoke for itself. So, the placebo effect is real, and if the SQ is complete BS, but still makes YOUR system sound better to YOU, what’s the problem? In a world of $50,000 speaker cables etc, a little $20-40.00 gizmo is nothing. Worth a shot. YMMV. |