I use many of them (cheap one) with success and a great impact on sound quality ( an aura given to the chords making them more 3-D).
But i never felt any physiological negative effect.
Many people are electro-sensible...
Perhaps this negative effect can fade away with time ?
I dont know... you will know if you keep them for more ...
Anyone get a physiological reaction from them?
Schumann resonators give me a headache and nausea.
I also tried the Nordost Qpoint, and it had a very similar effect on me.
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For those who need to learn discernment in such matters, I offer my latest article at Dagogo.com, "Audiophile Law: Burn In Test Redux", wherein I show that this kind of activity is a waste of time and leads to poorer system building. System building meaning what: throwing money for costly upgrade ? You are an unpaid sellers of new products my friend not someone able to build a system, someone who BUY ready made electronic components... I created for 500 bucks my own system, not with upgrades but with elementary scientific facts... The most important one being acoustical law... Acoustician dont need a 100,000 speakers + a 100,000 amplifier to give himself a great sound.... a blind customer yes... A blind reviewer yes... Study more, experiment more, buy less.... By the way why are you so repulsed by a 20 bucks experiments HERE that could teach ourself something? The self appointed "scientists" are scandalized and now the sellers of costly gear are afraid... You are never repulsed by the marketing conditioning playing in the sellings of costly electronic design? What are your priorities? Mine is reaching the most perfect sound at peanuts cost.... OH! i am deluded probably, too much creative to be honest....Bordeline ? Probably.... By the way i succeeded to reach a great S.Q. at NO COST.....It is then possible.... I dont pretend to have the greatest system , read me right please, but my modest system work at his optimal quality working....And when this is the case upgrading lost much of his appeal... |
Simply put, we struggled to hear any difference. However, the one thing that we agreed on is that the sound stage may have been a little bit larger. But it was so minute.
So will i leave them plugged in. Why not. It did not degrade the sound, but I can’t say it really helped either. Try my little experiment.... Put on the capacitors of the S.G. a thin plate of shungite for phone at few bucks each and a bit of copper tape on the external side after that add an herkimer diamond 3 or 4 gram... Another under 20 bucks that perhaps will surprise you.... But with all the tweaks you already have i am not surprised by the result... Try my litlle experiment....For fun.... 😊 The sound will be different in the three cases, with shungite on top or with herkimer diamond or with the 2 together... We learn something doing that very strange on the audible effect of minerals in an electrical field....for sure some will call you "nut" here.... But you have already lost it for them.... My best to you.... |
I appreciate your sincere honesty @mahgister.
Thanks for your kind words... One simple precision to be understood clearly... I recommend FIRST if possible some passive treatment of the room and active one like with Helhmotz pipes before ANYTHING else... But i know that Schumann Generators work, even if not, for all specific gear coupled to all specfic ears and coupled to all specific acoustical possible settings tough, then, if your audio system is in the living room and not in a kind of laboratory dedicated audio room like mine and you cannot introduce there many acoustic treatments THEN it is possible even probable , but not for all people like i just said for evident reasons, to gain an improvement at peanuts cost, then try 2 S.G. for 20 bucks...This is the most cheap possible experiment with a positive return probability... If it does not give an improvement, call that a fun experiment... This is my point.... I dont and never has promoted in audio thread any expansive upgrades or "tweaks"...I dont need them at all myself, not because they are all"snake oil",not at all, some are more than good, and will give better S.Q. than my devices.... BUT i enjoy an already very good level of S.Q. with my homemade devices... Thats enough for me and for a 500 bucks system...Simple... The other reason i never used anything sold like "tweaks" is my thread audio journey where i speak ONLY about low cost homemade creations or discoveries of mine...I want to speak proudly of MY peanuts cost devices not of other tweaks even if they are better than mine and more scientifically improved.... Remember that mine give reward for no cost.... The goal of my thread is audiophile experience for the" poors " at peanuts costs.... Not : " who own the best system in the world?" There exist many other threads about that.... i am the only one with the reverse goal : optimizing what is low cost gear only with only no cost devices...... I hope to be understood... My deepest regards to you.... |
«Dont trust you ears ever especially if God speak to you»-Groucho Marx
«Wait a minute could you record it?»-Harpo Marx
«It is an inner voice dunce! it is probably a placebo anyway»-Groucho Marx
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Well isn't that convenient given they have no impact on acoustics ..... but hey, I am sure the test will be fully sited.
It is useless to discuss with you... Sorry....No arguments only bashing... You dont even know that you dont understand basics... I am ignorant myself but i discovered all that especially discussing with you and trying to understand... By the way i want to thank you really, because without discussing with you, i would have never stumble on the article that give me my most powerful idea and device.... Then my first sentence is not fair i think now....You dont have sound arguments but without you i will have never dit it.... Then i apologize for my rudeness with you, but you are not smooth with all others yourself isn’t it? Good evening and my best to you.... |
Schumann generator work ONLY in some acoustical settings impossible for me to define in advance...I can prove they are not placebo with a simple experiment no one seems willing to perform... Anyway...Ignorance is bliss it seems...
By the way acoustical control is the KEY, not Schuman Generators or even ionizers, even if they work and i know first hand they work well...
In the next week or 2 i will describe my last acoustical device more powerful than any other i used in the past...
It is a "mechanical equalizer".... Yes..... No cost, no negatives, you need only your ears to create a depth imaging more encompassing then what you already have....
Contrary to my S.G. grid and ionizers, or "golden plates", this "mechanical equalizer" is founded on pure scientific proven research of 2008 i will cited and explained in relation with my device...Then no accusation of placebo is possible here...
The "skeptik scientist boy club" bandwagon of sheeps will have a hard job with me with Helmholtz and japan acousticians in my bandwagon this time...
😊😁😎😊
My goal is to give myself Hi-Fi at peanuts costs and proving it is possible....Without buying anything save good basic gear...No upgrading...No buying of tweaks ....Homemade one only....
With this last device my goal is reached by the way.... When you listen to a 2-way stereo system with a recording of Kurt weill, a very good one, that give you voices around you.... This it is it...With relatively natural timbre for sure... Improving my 500 bucks system with costly gear make no sense at all even for sure if this is possible but it is here i encounter very soon, thanks to acoustic controls, the law of diminushing returns... I can improve but with a cost over the roof compared to 500 bucks price for my system... I evalute this upgrade over 10,000 bucks...But i already have 3-D musical experience then....I dont want to refine it for 10,000 bucks.... I prefer to live proudly with my extraordinary low cost system.... I am done...
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Interesting...
I created a cheap version of this already with connected by cable brass chinese bowls that help soundstage and focus...
But this product is certainly better and not too costly thanks... |
If they won’t come off 800.00 a pair, I might just find out.. ADJ Helmholtz resonators, thought to be PURE hog wash. UNTILL, the 80-90s. If you want to do things a little different.. Very interesting but like usual too costly for me... I works for peanuts at peanuts cost only... This is the bad news... The good news is my grid of homemade Helmholtz devices now ranking to their final number of 21 pipes and tubes of size going to 8 feet for the higher one to the lenght of a straw for the little one, all together adjusted in neck by ear listenings but also with the ratio 1.6 between 3 sets of 3, are easy to fine tuned by ears... Errors of fine tuning are compensated by the numbers of devices and their complementary simultaneous action on more than one frequncy and harmonics at once...My grid is not perfect for sure.... The improvement is perfect tough with me.... COSTS: peanuts This device so interestingit is will act mainly on bass frequencies and i will need 4 at 800 bucks each... My homemade grid is more powerful because the pipes i use are of different volumes and act not only on bass but on mid bass and high frequencies also... Then i smile with an empty peanuts jar beside me....But i have the money to buy another one tough.... |
Funny all these weird things.. Traditional bass traps are so friggin’ ugly.. It is more easy to sell easy to use bass traps for the mass than real more complex solutions and more efficient one... By the way i use only one bass trap in my room.... All is not bad with bass trap.... |
If we count results now, those positive seems to exceed the negatives one...
But even if it was not the case, i excluded placebo because of my suggested experiments with the addtion of the shungite+copper on top of the S.G. or the addition of an Herkimer diamond that completely change the audible effect :
more compressive with the shungite only, more airy with the Herkimer diamond...
More balanced with the shungite+copper tape and the Herkimer diamond together...
A repeatable experiment like mine with repeatable different effect is not placebo save for idiots or for those so much ingrained in bad faith they cannot try a simple experiment or recognize they were wrong....
For some lunatic it is only collective placebos in audio...
I will not adding anything to this silliness......
😁 |
Well Mr. Schumann landed in my space today. Both he and Ace Venturi the Master of Laminar Flow have improved articulation, soundstage and overall musicality in my listening room this evening. Tom Where do you use the laminar flow venturi device and how? Or is it a secret? You mention it and i want to know.... Thanks,,, By the way what is your acoustic lens?
The unit faces up at an acoustic lens of sorts
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In my audio room. Tom This part i already figure it out... buy how? Where do you use it to increase the laminar flow in the room? |
Apology for my ignorance but you use it where? |
Good news indeed! but who is Ace Venturi?
Ok i figure it out with internet.... 😁😊 |
I did get 2 of these and they did make a marginal change in sound. Maybe I need some crystals and copper to enhance the effect?
Improving the room is the FIRST thing to do in audio... S.G. are way down the list even if they work ....I owned 12 then.... 😁😊 But NOTHING will replace the huge improvement of passive materials treatment and active one with Helmholtz tubes and pipes.... Not even upgrading all the audio system... |
If not blind tested even sun rays are placebo sorry....
If blinded you feel them on your skin anyway , go underground please....
😁😊😎
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you underestimate the gullibility and overestimate the analytic quality of human’s in general. Some like usual see anything save in the black and white color qualifications they project onto the world... To hear a difference sometimes ask for specific conditions about the gear noise floor and the room acoustical settings...Is it not simple to understand? Dont throw the S.G. but look at improving the mechanical and electrical and acoustical working dimensions of your system and room first... S.G. CANNOT be the first thing to use for improving your system....I said it many times... Hundreds of people all across the world and through a few decades vouch for an audible positive impact on their audio experience with S.G. some vouch they hear nothing... The best explanation about this discrepencies in perception is what i just said, difference in gear, difference in embeddings controls, the best explanation cannot be a stupid and hysterical accusation of hallucination or of collective placebos effect first and last against a very great number of peoples... Placebo effect exist, but working embeddings dimensions controls and their noise floor exist also and are more important factors in audio experience than the placebo concept some hysterical doctor see everywhere, even if it is not the MAIN factor at all playing in the audio field... «For an idiot using all the times a hammer all is nails, and sometimes even for a wise man if the hammer is near his hands all he see is nails»-Anonymus Smith «My hammer was the only nail i had»-Groucho Marx |
People complained with their " science opinions" for few bucks experiment confirmed by many people over decades...And true science is of no help here where only experiments could decide... There is even scientific papers experimenting now with this effect.... Look for on internet... Than only experiment can help for the time being in audio....I did the experiment myself because whose will complain about fun experiment for a few bucks ? Not me, only those with prejudices for sure... Open mind shut their mouth or try it...Who can a priori decide for a so complex effects on the brain,on the body and probably on the electrical field noise floor of the room ? The same one who "knows" from birth or with a very narrow expertise field projected out of their competence because of a dogmatic view of science... Why some will hear nothing is very simple,it is not necessary to accuse of delusion all satisfied customers for decades because many hear nothing... It take a room able to deliver it and a system mechanically, electrically and acoustically that did not exceed a precise noise floor... The effect is vey audible but "subtle" at the same time because the way it affect S.Q. did not ressemble other effects...I know it...I will never has perceived it probably 7 years ago with the same audio system, noisier tough... Never trust what other people hear. This is a way too drastic opinion, because in spite of all structural differences between human ears and their particular histories, there is a relatively universal unanimity in audio about what is a relatively good system and what is a bad one.... For example for most people probably Mikelavigne system would be perceived good...And mine relatively to his, bad....The difference between the 2 system exist, the "width" of the gulf is a debatable question but i have no doubt that his system is better than mine... Than very good system and less god one exist OBJECTIVELY...... But for many other costly system i prefer my 500 bucks system....This is also debatable and subjective.... Acoustic law and human psyche are more stable in spite of variations than those imposing universal defiance because of the differences.... The question is not about trust in others hearing or complete defiance, the problem and his solution is communication and experiments .... This is why we have audio thread.... And most wars between audiophiles comes less from reality than from limited knowledge and limited experience and very bad communication skills....Insulting people first is not a great communication skills... Instillating defiance instead of trust is not the best politic....Imposing dogmas and calling it science is not great intelligence at work.... Sorry.... I study too much in my life for thinking that a narrow field of science is even near the truth of all human experience.... Delusions in this century do not come from magicians astrologers and snake oil sellers, it comes directly from technocracy.... Not knowing that is being more than ignorant, it is staying voluntarily blind....My mind is not programmed to believe or to doubt but to think.... « Captives and jailors are like one another, warring brothers crushed by the same mechanic»-Anonymus Smith «Are you not a marxist here?»-Groucho Marx «Irony is the art of trust in the others ability to understand»-Anonymus Smith «My jokes were always a commercial exhange with profit for all, i am a capitalist»-Groucho Marx |
If you read me, i never said that it can be the first things to try.... I even said that more important controls are necessary sometimes before hearing audible effect... It is my experience....
It is even possible than other of my devices or other device control exceed or replace it or mask his effect.... I must experiment to know that....I dont know everything.... I just know what i am used to listen to : my specific gear/room controls...
Thanks for respecting my freedom ...
My best to you sokogear.... |
😊😊😊😊😊
My S.G. play on my endorphins by working through my electrical grid and giving to the music the "mapman" effect, a taste of the humor i was lacking....
I reject the "twoleftears effect" tough because too more rancid.... 😁😊 |
Your buddy Groucho would say "The world goes around in a circle because of mechanics, not mice on the inside running real fast". :-) 😊 In musical audio mices and mechanic embrace sometimes themselves in the same wheel...But i really dont want to contradict Groucho here.... 😉 |
Dear friend oldhyvimec you are not totally right.... Yes it could be an effect on the physiology .... Perhaps it is also... But with my experiments i think it is also an objective effect through the electrical grid of the room... Things are often not so simple we wanted them to be or are able to distinguished ourselves clearly... And yes you are right: The same terminology used over and over again will sink in, won’t it, mahgister with his embeddings.. :-). For sure repeating a concept help to program it in heads, but this does nor means that the concept of embeddings is not useful to overpass the ideologically incorrect audio concept of "tweaks".... Anyway my deepest respect for you and your always high spirit.... |
all the millercarbon minions Dont insult people grouping them in one bag...To better stone them against the same wall.... Dont act like the average ape in a rampage... It is a low cost audio experiment only.... (20 bucks for 2 chinese one) Not an election here or a war.... By the way most people here have no idea what is a blind test, and what are his specific power and his specific limitation....No idea also what is listening musical habit.... It is a skill "learned" in a specific room with specific gear and specific files, it is an HABIT, not an unborn universal capacity like a bat power waiting to be verified by blind test on the bat.... Keep your neurons working and dont use them to throw stones.... Thanks.... |
I think it’s fair to say that all 3 of these concepts have been accepted by and large by audio enthusiasts.
The only difference of opinion seems to be in the extent of their importance and the degree of the ’treatment’ required. The sole fact that some disparate factors are well known without the concept and exact description that unite them is not sufficient to create clear understanding... My concept creation is new: controls of the three working embeddings dimensions of any audio system, mechanical,electrical and acoustical... The three factors are not new... Uniting them in a unique concept , the embeddings controls, make me able to affirm that the tuning of a system exceed by much the system itself....Speaking of "tweaks" is hiding this fundamental fact behind secondary addition to a system...Embeddings controls are the crux of audio on par at least with electronic design gear and they are NOT secondary addition by far... Then we can point clearly to the deceptive and deceitful market concept of "upgrading"... For someone with little experience the acoustical embeddings is the most impactful and the most important.... |
Mahgister - you are not nuts. Like you say, you are conducting experiments in a lab type environment. You are not imposing a lab look into your living area like Chuck McGill on Better Call Saul. Sounds like you are having fun which is what this hobby is all about. I like hearing about your experiments. Thanks for your kind words... For sure my goal was not an experiment...It was reaching satisfaction with my gear... With no money i never even know that it could be possible... The first steps begins by accident but in the journey i begin to understand what matters and why... This is what i called the working controls in the 3 working embedding dimensions of any system... Then the universal advice to upgrade begins to reveal to me his ugly face: an illusion half the time .... Because it is more important to tune the gear at his right level of optimal working than buying new one.... Simple... Who say that loudly? I am not interested either by buying " tweaks" they are most of the times too costly and none of them solve by itself the problems in all 3 working embeddings dimensions... In the opposite the sum of all my low cost devices did it to a great extent all together... Then i am anything save "nuts".... My audio dedicated room is "crazy" but it is NOT a reason to dismiss my conclusions.... The control over a free room for my experiment was my only real advantage over most people....My gear is good but average.... My sound is not average at all tough at the end... It is the best sound this average system could deliver and it is way more than what we think possible... It is the reason why i could affirm with confidence that most owner dont know what the gear they already own is able to deliver in the right conditions.... |
Hi Maghister - I’d never call you or anyone ‘nuts’ ! I apologize to you for answering some other post in my answer to you...You are respectful and i thank you for that... At least you acknowledge the existence and role of confirmation bias. it is IMPOSSIBLE and pure ignorance to contest the placebo effect or bias impact on perceptions... It is and always was evident for me and i always think it must evident for all... BUT attributing all my final results to bias or placebos by principle and about anything called "tweaks" by principle is for me deceptive and unfaithful to the experiments like denying bias and placebo effect also are...Separating placebo effects from the real impact or not of any device is the crux of the audio experiment... I will repeat myself, placebo or not, i bought nothing except peanuts costs devices, i created and modified most myself and replicated with homemade materials mostly from inspirational branded costly devices... My results are there in the form of my ONLY advice: Dont buy anything new ever BEFORE embedding what you had already in the rightfull manner.... It is not consumerism advice all over the place not "snake oil" marketing here with me.... It is a learning process in the 3 working dimensions of any audio system: mechanical, electrical and acoustical... It is not the magical "tweak" in itself that interest me, it is the way and method to reach an optimal experience, never mind the specific gear...My way is learning through a set of listenings experiments with low cost artefact and means... Audiophile hearing is a learning habit experiments in a KNOWN room and with KNOWN gear, not an innate infaillible gift usable everywhere with any system like suggested by some .... |
On the contrary. Believers in homeopathy become more and more convinced over time that their water has healing properties. They seek confirmation biases and use them as ‘proof’. We see it all the time, even on this forum. In a life of 70 years there will be nights of good sleep and nights of poor sleep. Put a box and a cat under your bed, and when the next night is a good sleep then that is due to the box. And the cat. Or the cat. Or maybe the effect of going to bed convinced you are going to get a good nights sleep. Or random chance. FIRST-My critic has confused these 2 very distinct concepts affirming that all my cumulative embeddings controls over 2 years were only the "effect of taking placebos", the "tweaks" being ineffective.... It is possible for some case NOT FOR ALL INCREMENTAL additions or modifications implemented in my system...All drugs like all tweaks are accompanied by their "placebo effects" and like in medecine, in audio we must unmask the real effect of a tweak like for a drug from the placebo effects associated with it...BUT REDUCING all "placebos effects" associated with a drug or with a tweak to the" effects of a pure placebo" taking is not science...It is SOPHISM.....It is not an argument but a confusion of concepts... I never denied the existence of a "placebo effect" associated with the taking of a drug or with a tweak but i denied the reduction of all tweaks or all drugs in their possible effects to be ONLY the "effects of a placebo" associated with them.... This is logical and distinguishing the 2 is pure science.... Confusing the two like in this post is ideological biased position with no desire to experiment and only a PREJUDICE begging the question for the answer.... SECOND- the buying of any UPGRADE to an audio system, being it speakers, amplifiers or dac could also be vulnerable to the same effect of taking a placebo and to the placebo effect...We must distinguish the 2 concepts also when making ourselves vulnerable to the consumerism conditioning market when buying gear... Then we must ask to ourself at what point in our own audio history it is better to think about the implementation of the right method and the right devices to control effectively the working embedding 3 dimensions of any audio system: mechanical,electrical or acoustical... Is it better to buy the new costly amplifier or speakers or dac or better to think about the way we can improve considerably what we already own by installing it rightfuly in this three working dimensions... A "tweak" is not an embedding controls by itself....It is only an help in this direction...We must separate the universal placebo effect related to any wishful change, be it an upgrade or a tweak, from the real effective working of the upgrading product or of the so called "tweaks".... All my approah is to say that the working embeddings three dimensions of controls are more important and less deceitful than buying an upgrade if we are not satisfied by our system AT SOME POINT.... What is important in audio: it is not the upgrading process that is the more important factor, but for almost all of us without one million dollars, it is the way by which we will succeed in INSTALLING rightfully in the mechanical electrical and acoustical working dimensions any piece of gear and the system itself AT THE LEAST POSSIBLE COST... Is a single tweak able to do that? NO Is it necessary to pay high money to do that? NO Is it possible to separate the placebo effect linked to a costly new gear or costly tweak from his real working effective or ineffective contribution? YES by experiment Is it possible to replicate or replace costly tweaks with cheap one to a certain degree? YES it is my experience for 2 years Is the Schumann generator a deceiving product which work only by the placebo effect? In my experience and experiments NO Is there here anyway some placebo effect could be playing? YES like in ANY upgrade or addition of anything which we wish to be positive there is a placebo effect related to it... Is a 10 bucks product "snake oil"? No it is a cheap experiment proposal, not a costly product advised for miraculous effect...Buying a cheap chinese device is not the same thing that buying a costly Acoustic Revive product.... Confusing the 2 is bad faith... Is the S.G. a general solution to the 3 embeddings problems by itself? Not at all....It is only an interesting experiment giving a positive results for many and it is easy to verify its effects... Is the general trend considering upgrading the ONLY MEANS there is to buy a real audiophile experience something deceitful? A market practice? A conditioning of customer? A placebo effect cleverly planned? YES it is also that and not only real pure and objective improvement in all cases... Because learning how to control and tune a system or a piece of gear in his 3 working dimensions is at least as important than buying a good gear....Read this sentence twice please.... In conclusion my audio room is my laboratory and it is not possible to do with a living room what i did in my audio room... Then attacking my "room" cleanliness is not fair.... This has nothing to do with a specific "tweak" or anything to do with my embeddings controls .... Some can use only a few of them and make them more clean and more esthetical...I am more creative than crafty.... 😁 I succeeded with my audio system at peanuts costs and it is the only important factor for me .... I learned something and i communicated here in the process... Something very few at best has ever dare to say here : It is possible to buy audiophile experience at relatively low cost if we learn how to do it.... And advice and maxim is : dont upgrade to anything before learning HOW to embed everything right... If you call my audio system experience only wishful thinking or placebo.... Myself i could call all these costly audio systems marketing, so called "audiophile", limited in their power to deliver real audiophile experience by the way they are well embed or not, in the 3 working dimensions of any system.... This is not a QUESTION of price.... This is a question about simple possible low cost methods used to control vibrations, electrical noise floor and acoustic settings... By the way dont call me "nuts", it is easy to put everydody unorthdodox in the same bag.... I know very well that some of my devices or experiments are "nuts" but not all the experience is.... Who is nut, those who chase with big money their tails or me satisfied with a low cost well embed system ? Plugging a new gear in the wall is NOT the way to reach audiophile experience in general.....Sorry...I dont mind the high price paid for the gear... |
I must say that sometimes in a relatively balanced resulting S.Q. , after many experiments, sometimes with only a minor change in appearance the complete S.Q. MAY dramatically change improving or losing the quality which was reach with other means till this change...My system has not achieved his evolution till recently and each time i was thinking that it was optimal and i was wrong.... 😁
For example the exact right balance between reflecting and absorbing acoustical surface...May create a huge impact....
Lately my few inches shortening of a few straws, the neck of my Helmholtz pipes and tubes grid...Create great impact....
Other examples are possible...I lived through many....
The S.Q. is a very sensible equilibrium between many known and unknown or underestimated factors in the 3 working embedding dimensions...
Our own capacity to detect these changes is less linked to supra normal heraring that did not exist for me anyway, than to my listenings and experiments history with the SAME gear in the SAME room....I call that learning to hear in some specific environment.... It is not a power in itself of discrimination applicable anywhere with any system in any room.... It is an HABIT.......Hearing is an habit that also can lose his power if transfered suddenly in an another environment than the usual.... 😊
It is the reason why blind test could be important and it is for the same reason that they cannot play a great active role in an evolutive learning specific habit context.... They are more useful in a social and scientific way and GENERAL environment for designers and customers etc....
For someone learning his own audio specific environment, his own room and his own gear, it is more an experiment he can try partially for sure, not scientifically, and i did it by accident many times unvolontarily....It surprized me a lot when it did....The unconscious was knowing that something was lacking not my consciousness at all,at the times when these accidents has occured...It percolate from my unocnscious to my consciousness that something was not right slowly... It surprized me....It proves to me that some changes were real not borderline placebo....Some were probably borderline placebo...
But i dont like when people apeak always of "placebo effect".... An incremental series of positive changes accumulating in months cannot be illusory.... One change times to times could be and has been for me surely....It pertain to my personal habit my learning history with his own deceptive way and his own powerful way also.... IT IS A LEARNING experience not a capacity given at birth.....
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@mahgister,
Good link but you could take its argument any way you chose. Thanks for your open mind being a glimmer of hope for others.... Just a word about truth: truth is something we must love and live under.... It is not reducible to the facts which are accepted or not by science or religions.... Truth is not only and mainly a value associated with facts, the so called "truth value" in the logical meaning of the word, truth is not reducible to facts in this world.... It is a light who shine through ANY world and through all beings... It is first and last an ORIENTATION of the heart and mind toward love and the absolute.... It is not also a religious matter.... The finger pointing the moon is not the moon... Truth could not be also the matter or the main subject of a science without heart.... It is the reason why i like your post... My best to you.... «Why did you count your money Groucho?»-Chico Marx «I trust my mothers’s love and numbers only»- Groucho Marx |
All this is to say the idea of a Schumann resonator improving sound is pure nonsense. However It does beg the question as to what a person thinks is true versus what they want to think is true. What do you think millercarbon? Perhaps it is time to go back to the books. First SOME change in the noise floor of my house may be detected by audible effects... Adding or substrating a number of appliances is an example of this... Second the connection of the S.G. to the electrical grid of the house modify it, no question.... Is it audible? Yes by me and some others who experiment it ...Why? Perhaps by virtue of the low frequency and his addition to the noise floor and his effect on it...I am not a scientist tough for sure... Why can i differentiate 2 distinct effects when i put quartz or shungite on the S.G. or on top of the main electrical box of the house? i can differentiate it and anybody can replicate that in his own main electrical box.... Those who NEVER experiment has no right to always speak of "placebo", being theONLY explanation for ALL cases, when the experiment proposed is SO SIMPLE to try and verify... Third dont turn an intelligent remark of you in a war against a user which is by the way not responsible of the S.G. publicity by himself.... It is me, among others, who speak about the S.G. to him... Four in science some undetectable very small effect could stay undetectable without the appropriate instrument to detect it or even a human sense to perceive it.... Ears are not only the biased gross measuring apparatus that it seems only and always to be for some.... Hearing is very complex phenomenon.... And ears can detect something very faint, directly undetectable at his own scale, percolating from some scale to another scale by his effect producing finally an audible effect.... It is one possibility...There is many others... Five Wait before concluding in a definitive condemnation, the story has not ended yet...Take a breath and try a simple experiment... If not wait...., Further, 1 picotesla is many orders of magnitude smaller than the earths own magnetic field. All this is to say the idea of a Schumann resonator improving sound is pure nonsense. Six apply your wise maxim to yourself also, before warring against another poster, perhaps it is time to try a simple experiment: However It does beg the question as to what a person thinks is true versus what they want to think is true. What do you think millercarbon? Perhaps it is time to go back to the books. «Imagination cannot be completely replaced by doubt if we want to fly»- Anonymus Smith «Music is like flying, the sounds are the wings, my imagination is the air sustaining them»-Groucho Marx listening to his new speakers without any Schumann generator in the room yet... To be a bit provocative i will make this citation from a anteresting book: " Eyes lie," says auditory neuroscientist Seth Horowitz. " But the ears don’t." |
Sorry - I have no idea he was putting shungite (whatever that is) on his "electrical service" and where that ends. I never say he use shungite, i only give this mineral for an example that is for me very known for affecting electricity power like quartz....For other reason than quartz... Others minerals will work or not i dont know which one eaudiotweak use...I experiment muyself with 30 different minerals varieties...Then i completely trust theaudiotweak.... Are you using a power conditioner to smooth out the power spikes? Yes mainly for a minimal protector against surge but i added my golden plates to it and other minerals to decrease his negative effect with success... |
I think that is what MillerCarbon does. He knows in theory it improves the sound and does whatever he can in that regard. It’s a free country. I like to justify any expenditure. I find it hard to beleive he can hear every single thing he’s done and when removed he would notice it. Double blind test would be nice to hear. First, when i add something in my room, for sure i listen and perceive a positive result on the spot or not... Is it really a physical, or acoustical or mechanical or electrical effect? Or is it a placebo? For EACH minute one change i dont always know for sure even if a change is effectively perceived... For EACH one big change i know for sure....An Helmoltz grid is not placebo... The ionizers and the S.G. grid are not minute changes in my mind even if they are not as powerful like an Helmholtz grid....They are enough impactful to dissipate any doubt and it is very easy to put the "on" button or the "off" button here... For ANY change, we can add it or keep it out, repeatedly...But i has not done always that in the enthusiastic fever of the music listening experiments for ALL perceived minute changes... But when something is lacking by accident or by experiment, you can verify if it is one positive REAL change or not...But if the change is very very audible what i call a big one, i trust my ears .... For some of the minute one, repeating the experiment was sometimes revelatory of a possible placebo effect , not always.... But at the end with an INCREMENTAL series of hundreds of additions, my audio system bear no more ressemblance at all with itself, before and after all these additions of controls devices in the three working embeddings dimensions... Then.... Explaining all that by placebo is impossible and preposterous for me.... |
@theaudiotweak - is comedian your full time job? sokogear, i can assure you that adding shungite to the paint on the wall will change the sound.... even if i have not devise this experiment i use shungite in my "golden plates" all along my electrical grid house.... I then has taken eaudiotweak seriously....Even if he will use some other minerals... it is an experiment.... Not a joke for me... |
Very interesting experiment thanks.... we wait for the result....
My best to you.... |
I dont know myself how many cheap one work for an optimal audible difference.... 2 or more... Certainly i added more and it was better, but i dont advise to bought 12 like me .... 😁😊😎
Probably less than 12 will do.... Sometimes the "placebo" effect is also PART of the explanation.... With the S. G. installed it is not placebo the main explanation of the audible effect for me, but with these numbers of 12 devices i play with, the "additional" effect is explained by placebo effect for sure in part... What is the right enough numbers: i will guess 4 or 5 not 12 .....Or perhaps a costly one.... But it is too costly for me to try only a "good" one....The price of 12 is a low fraction of the price of an Acoustic Revive one....
I only know that when they are accidentally disconnected or when i forget to open them "on", partially or completely , something is lacking in the sound.... It is not a blind test but it is enough for me tough...
And also the fact that putting shungite on top of the caps or herkimer diamond affect the sound very differently exclude only a placebo effect sorry....
Others could do a blind test, it will be interesting...
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An important remark about Schumann generators:
S.G. cannot do the impossible and give to us a natural musical timbre accuracy for example.... They can contribute like ionizers do...
But natural timbre accuracy PERCEPTION dont come DIRECTLY only FROM the speakers design either ....I suppose for sure we speak here about any relatively good speakers and for sure their design play a critical role...
But natural timbre accuracy PERCEPTION or experience come DIRECTLY FROM the room acoustical settings contributions...
And no S.G. or ionizers could replaced, only by itself, passive materials acoustical treatment and certainly not more active (non electronical) controls like Helmholtz grid....
Then yes S.G. are cheap and audible positively for many who will bought them....
But there exist no miracles in Acoustic....Only laws....Complex one...
The main criteria to know for sure if your system is accurate and high fi is not soundstage or imaging "per se", it is natural instrumental TIMBRE tonal accuracy perception...
Here the room acoustical settings are critical in the process of making possible the recreation of the Timbre instrument "envelope" perception ... No turntable or dac can give it by ONLY itself.... It is the room acoustical synergy settings controls with the speakers which is the key... S.G. are only a small contribution...Like ionizers... Like many others ....
The more powerful are passive materials treatment with the right balance with absorbtion/reflection/diffusions surfaces and volumes...And activation of the room with Helmholtz pipes and tubes or bottles... Secondary more passive resonators could also give something...
Then wait for a possible pleasant surprize with cheap S.G. but not for miracles and in some case if the noise level is too high no audible effects....
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twoleftears,
Did you invest in one, or are you just being "funny?" I took his post seriously but you remind me that he is rarely serious save for free sarcasm at the others expanse, especially if they speak about low cost homemade devices, which is very easy to do.... He recycled perpetually the "tin foil hat" joke usually....Which is not a proof of great imaginative power.... I permit myself to say so because of this arrogant order to "scrap" the cheap one and the suggestive advice to bought costly tweak, coming from someone who always mock any unorthodox way.... I took his post seriously because usually they are only short sarcasm....Perhaps i was deceived by this longer one.... And i admit that i always trust others first.... I prefer to be trustfull to others in a first move.... I am doubtful now that he really recommend this Stein gear, except for sarcasm.... Anyway i will apologize if he rectify me....If not, it is call "trolling", the practice of those who suffer boredom to stir a pot only to create negative reactions....He is not malignant tough.... For boredom i recommend reading some unknown genius: Malcolm de Chazal, but it exist only in french..... 😁 William Blake could replace it..... This translation of Chazal comes from wiki , it can give you a flavor of someone who has never known boredom and took not much time for sarcasm: «Half-opened petals give the flower an adenoidal look. We know the halls of the eye like welcome visitors but we live in our mouth. Any man who acts singly in the press of a mob will get trampled. Shifting into reverse while making love can kill you. Immediately before it falls, water turns into a living being as if a person’s soul had just slipped into it: look at the way it bends and twists, writhing in desperation. (What if you threw a not quite cold corpse out of an airplane—would the dead awaken?...)» Then we can safely assert that "sarcasm" is often born from an aborted perception, or from an experience that never took place and replaced it...True imagination has a large wingspan , never walk, but fly..... Humor is not sarcasm... |
The SteinMusic Harmonizer looks interesting it claims to "elongate the air molecules " of the room. I wonder if these elongated molecules are still breathable? Silence elongate the branching connections of brain cells.... I will apply this to myself before shorting mine.... But perhaps are you serious in your interest for the stein gear? if so i apologize... I had an indigestion of sarcasms lately....I begin to produce too much of them myself it seems.... Sarcasm is a contagious disease.... |
Scrap all these inexpensive units that will stop working within a few months, and go for gold.
Some of mine have worked for near a year 12 hours a day till now.... 10 bucks chinese one... Or rather, go for the SteinMusic Harmonizer H2 Plus Signature, combined with 5 Blue Suns (a must). What this very expansive "tweak" could give me that I don’t already have , modulo my homemade no cost embeddings controls? Why is this so? Right now i listen to a sound that none of my 7 headphones never give me from speakers in nearfield listening...I put my headphones in a drawer for many months now.... And in regular listening position all instruments fill my room with natural timbre.... Did i need a little more for many thousand dollars more? 😁 Thanks, but not for me....Perhaps for those who dont need to spare money.... Consumerism blinders, upgrades, "tweaks" are not my listenings low cost experiments with the 3 working embeddings dimensions homemade controls...I call that true audiophile experience for the " poor".... The experience is not poor at all, the cost is very low contrary to all audio consumer mythology... The fact is some science like acoustic dont need to cost money to be used....Save if you are a seller of acoustic products... For sure it is more easy to buy a good "tweak" and plug it no more job needed...But remember that no tweak can work marvel in ALL 3 working dimensions at the same time sorry... Many devices are needed for each one of this embeddings dimensions, especially the acoustic one; only one will not do, even a magical one.... Experiments ask for time but are more fun and cost me peanuts... Keep the "tweak".... I will keep my money... By the way i am sure that this is a good product... But i prefer to stay creative and richer...Anyway i dont need it.... Thanks..... |
The Clapton video was recorded on a Direct TV box via a dish on the roof (hard drive I’m guessing), so there was no "air" transmission involved in the playback process. I am pretty convinced by my experiments that the S. G. like i already said here work THROUGH the electrical grid of the connected appliance or gear... All electrical gear in a house partake to a common noise floor of their own... I am not a scientist at all.... Just my own opinion.... But my ionizers work the " air" with results on par with my S.G. grid... i rarely mention that here because of all the "enlightened minds" ready to kill with words.... 😊😁😎😊 |
I try to get the best bang for my buck just for the sound, not the looks or to impress anyone but me. I used to think $25K for a stereo was a lot of money, now I think I am a beginner after 40+ years with a low 5 figure (barely) investment. Some are spending 6 figures without a second thought. It must be nice..... 7 years ago i begins my search for audiophile experience... At this time i was impressed by gear of very costly price.... Now after all my peanuts costs experiments for 2 years, i smile and dont look at any of them, with envy at all; for sure they are better than mine... But like i said if the harpsichord or the orchestra fill the room, all that for 500 bucks and my homemade controls device, I dont need anything more.... The law in audiophile experience is this one: Dont upgrade anything but instead embed everything rightfully in his three working dimensions... An Helmholtz grid cost nothing to make and is more powerful than any upgrade...And it is pure known acoustic science... Unlike the S.G. grid which work but who knows why... And the Helmholtz grid is way more powerful in his own way...With Helmholtz grid the room is ACTIVATED and is no more a set of passive bouncing walls for the sound coming from the speakers...The room is active now and transform the speakers sound, no more only passively, by absorbtion, reflection or diffusion on his surface but by acting like a complex heterogenuous set of pressurized engines.... No reviewers call for that.... No reviewers has ever explain that.... At best they want to sell costly "secondary addition" to a system called "tweaks"...My embeddings controls are NOT secondary addition at all, they transform any system and make it able to give his best.... Acoustic science says it , speakers cannot beat their room.... I look now to refine my actual results not to spend more money....I listen my music not so more the sound.... But anyway i know first hand that most people have no idea how to work with their room and gear....And sometimes dont have a room to play with like mine.... I have no clues myself like most few years ago reading all audio magazines about upgrades for me...It was my desire for a good sound without the money that drived me here... Thanks to my limited purse, i was in the obligation to be crazily creative... 😊 It is simple... I am only here to motivate a few.... If i can help..... Others with money dont need my inconvenient and blasphemous "truth".... My deepest respect and regards.... |
Thanks dekay....
Interesting... It could have adverse effect on electro sensible people...It seems in your case...For me no ill effects with 12 in my room 12 hours a day....It is interesting to know tough for some sensible people...
😁 My only effect is the audible upgrade.... I am lucky.... 😊
I never try the battery one, thinking it was less practical than the USB one for me but i am not sure if i read the descriptor the battery seems to be long life, i will try one or 2 this summer...
My best to you... |
@mahgister- I am not opinionated at all. Remembering your past posts i think you are right... I apologize to you if i answered sometimes in a too direct or passionnate way.... I cannot answer to all your questions " why".... I did not begin forme as a scientific inquiry.... I just try 2 years ago to replicate what Acoustic Revive customers reported about their costly purchase with cheap modified chinese one thats all... Like i said anyway, even if these devices work with an audible positive s.q. effect for me and for many others, i did not recommend that for first acoustic tool at all...or in replacement of more powerful others like Helmholtz pipies and tubes resonators... But anyway 2 for 20 bucks is only a fun experiment to try for those who "dare to go where no one ever goes to go before ".... 😊 It is not a participation in mass murders nor in a Ponzy scheme.... I am like you at the end, some experiments appeal to me, some others dont.... My deepest respect for you and regards.... |
Mahgister - I’d better get my mother to kiss my cables then. I’ll hear a difference and because trust my ears I will assert the sound actually improved.
Maybe I’ll put the diamond ring she left me on top of my Raspberry Pi and I’ll get “more air” and a tighter soundstage. How easy it is to ridicule what we want to.... No need to answer.... Keep the "reason" i will keep my "illusion"..... The placebo effect is linked to all phenomena in life and work great, mother,s kisses included; but it cannot replace an experiment... It cannot be invoked to explain everything and the rest when we think about something we dont know anything about but dont trust.... It seems sceptics and gullible people are more akin to one another than we ever think possible... 😁 I never encountered people so much opinionated than some in these audio threads, the "sceptics/dogmatists scientism species" and i was dealing all my life with scientists and students and philosophers....All those that were dogmatics and mainly sceptics more than enthusiast were the poor one, and the second rated one... All true unlookers were creative, enthusiast and open free spirits... No exception.... In all fields....I spoke with them almost 40 years... I missed the young people.... 😊 « Creativity and freedom dont give a dam about your reason»- Prometheus stolen the fire.... |
but please just admit as @mahgister has that these SGs may be all in your head. Try to read my post correctly... I recognize easily that an effect on the physiology is possible, even a placebo effect... I dont look like an opinionated idiot i think? Did i ? 😁 I NEVER said that it was ONLY a placebo effect which explain it all..... To prove that, I precisely proposed here, multiple times, a PRECISE repeatable experiment with shungite AND/OR an Herkimer diamond on the S.G. that would reveal by their different effects an OBJECTIVE concrete fact... some like these SGs simply science fiction from a purely sound standpoint But it seems you are illuminated with innate definitive science like mijostyn ? Are all others audiophiles testimonies like mijostyn said, deluded affirmations, if not of idiots, of gullible customers throwing 10 bucks to chinese thieves by eating propaganda like in Goebbels times ? I dont think so..... No experiments needed for you ? Sorrry i am more curious i devise experiments for myself in audio.... I am flabbergasted by stupidity.... My own first for sure.... But my God ! i am not the only one for sure..... My only hope, reading some here, is that i am not the stupidest....I dont speak about you sokogear here you dont appeal to Goebbels yourself... You are not stupid at all but you rush to conclusion by ready made opinions.... Not me, in audio i will try anything and experiment with it if it did not cost any money... I succeeded... My S.Q. did not cost me more than peanuts.... Who is gullible? |
Indeed. The Enlightenment is not complete. Maybe there is a rational and evolutionary reason for irrationality and it will be with us forever. For your own education read Ernst Cassirer about enlightenment period... You will learn something your post reveal lacking in your understanding of "reason".... Go to wiki and read about Cassirer....You will learn "the reason for irrationality" is not "evolutionary " but constitutive of the human being and necessary roots for the rational power and his necessary constraint... I believe myself in science like Cassirer not in scientism.... «Reason is not a free wheel»-Groucho Marx « Is it a tree?»- Chico Marx |
No - provided it isn’t being marketed as a medical device, or unless advertised in a way that is dishonest or untruthful. But yes, it is a social crime if people - through no fault of their own - have their hopes raised by misleading and unsubstantiated claims, and have money taken from them on the basis of false hope, and in the worst case put their health and well-being in the hands of merchants of lies.
The people who do this may not be criminals, but profiteering through being misleading is offensive to good society. What about the numerous testimonies for a better sleep ? All mass delusion or incredible placebos....Placebo is the right concept not delusion if the device frequencies play no role....... This device is not proposed to cure anything or like a drug or like a "medical device" but only helping sleep and good sleep is the key to a better health....Remember your mother kiss help you to sleep also? It is a placebo effect at worst which can work for 10 bucks... Where is the damage? Could you scientifically dismiss all testimonies and prove it dont work at all for a better sleep save for a placebo effect? Perhaps the frequencies range play a role who knows? Save mijostyn who knows everything rational by birth enlightenement.... Anybody hate "fraud" but mijostyn post are completely out of reason way more than Acoustic Revive publicity.... Forbiding a simple audio experiment at 10 bucks for all the reasons he invoke in an audio thread and talking of Goebbels and the "big lie" seems normal rational thinking to you? If yes.... I will pass my turn to discuss anymore.... |
My own idea about this S.G. is that perhaps it is not this " exact" frequency alleged to be produced by itself that explain the result, the so called magical 7,8 hertz, but instead the fact that there is ANY frequency in this range coming from a piece of gear interacting with the audio gear electrical field through the house grid.... The precise 7,8 hertz is NOT the culprit probably, any frequency around will do....The Chinese cheap apparatus work and are certainly not precise...
I remember to all of you, that my S.G. are all modified for a better effect....
Nobody report yet, except the OP i think, with my simple experiment at the source of my modification to improve the S.G. with an experiment which can prove a "physical" impact and not mostly a "subjective " or "physiological" one mainly....
Put a piece of shungite on top : compression of sound
Put an herkimer diamond on top: decompression of sound
Put a golden plate on top (shungite +copper tape on the external side) : more balanced sound
«To think out of the box, stay out of the box»- a puppet voice stepping outside of a box
«I dont use my brain to think because he seat inside this box»-Groucho Marx pointing to his head...
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I want also to WARN all people that the S. G. will not solve by itself all 3 embeddings controls problems, pertaining to mechanical, electrical and acoustical dimensions by far...
It will work most of the times with positive results in the right environment, with a not too high noise floor and add something that is like my IONEZERS did also on their own....But they did not replace my vibrations controls, nor my electrical grid controls, and certainly not ,y passive and active acoustical controls....
Even with ionizers and S. G. so good they are, and they are good, then all the problems in these 3 working embeddings dimensions need completely other solutions.... |
