Schiit Freya + Class A in Stereophile

The Freya + is a very very good unit. For many, it is an end game item. 

@mward

Agreed, no generality holds up all the time. A separate power supply is an upgrade in the design… typically has a big improvement. A change from dip switches to front controls are the same features implemented differently.

“There is an inverse relationship between sound quality and features. Feature rich audio stuff is mid-fi or low-fi.”

Not sure that always holds up. I’ve seen a few features withheld by manufacturers until you reach their higher tier models. Pass Labs phono stages for example.  You get dip switches on the lower models, front controls on the higher models.  Separate power supplies would also be considered a feature. 

Mr_bill...yes, all 4. I even have a few extras and they last a very long time at least relative to power tubes. 6SN7GTB. Stereophile rated the Freya + "Class A" even though it has lots of features...

Stereophile gives ratings based on sound quality. There is an inverse relationship between sound quality and features. Feature rich audio stuff is mid-fi or low-fi. Sound quality is the important criteria in high end audio.

@wolf_garcia 

did you change all 4 of the tubes to NOS GE tubes?

is there a model number for the NOS GE tubes?

Did Stereophile give it that rating for sound quality or features? The Freya+ has a killer set of features: Stepped attenuator volume control, RCA and XLR inputs and outputs, 3 output modes - passive mode, solid state gain mode without tubes, full tube driven output mode. And the passive mode can do XLR or single ended Hometheater pass-through. It also sounds good especially with better tubes. I agree with the rating although I don’t disagree that higher end preamps will sound better.

What other preamps did you compare it to besides the audio research? I personally don't like the sound of audio research preamps, might as well buy a solid state preamp.

My elder Freya with NOS GEs is absolutely on par with other far more pricey preamps as I proved (to myself and a few friends) by group listening tests comparing it to some ARC preamps and others a few years ago when it was new. In the tube mode it's utterly excellent. I proved this fact to myself further when I recently bought a Pass XA-25 that would doubtless shine light on the flaws of a sketchy preamp...it's even better than I thought, and needs great tubes to shine...new Tung Sols and JJs just didn't cut it for me, GEs and a few other NOS vintage tubes did.

@eljif or anyone else:

……,are these the CBS Hytron 5692 tubes you are referring too? And you put two on the input side? (Which I’m not sure which side is which!?

For a newbie, could any of you please list the exact tubes you've upgraded to that have been a really nice upgrade?  (also which tube position they are?)

I noticed when I rolled in some NOS Sylvania tubes the Freya + sounded much better. It sounded very good with the stock tubes, but the NOS tubes improved performance noticeably. It replaced a SS Parasound preamp which was no slouch. In terms of overall sound quality, I rated the Parasound a 6 out of 10 and the Freya was an 8.5 out of 10. I must add I don't buy really expensive audio gear simply because I can't afford it and I have a ceiling amount I am willing to pay for any piece based upon practicality and reasonableness. So I find the Freya a very good audio preamp for the price.

I just swapped out the Freya+ for a PrimaLuna EVO 100 preamp. But that aside, I just wanted to mention that I do subscribe to Stereophile primarily to see what the reviewers use for their music testing and to discover new music from the back section of the magazine. I find it helpful to listen to what a reviewer used for testing and to see if I can't hear what they heard as well. 

The Freya plus response well with tube roll, the better the tube the Freya improves, Iam using pavane 6sn7 and tennis ball pavane 6sn7.Though the JJ 6sn7  also does a good job.Its worth also upgrading the pc.iam happy with Freya, though originally I want audio research, backert preamp.

I put some CBS Hytron tubes in the input stage side and it really made the preamp a whole lot better. 

When I read the Stereophile test, the first thought I had is why they didn't roll some tubes. 

The tube stage is the thing I agree with the Freya, the reason for being.  I put some CBS Hytron tubes in the input stage side and it really made the preamp a whole lot better.  I wonder how it would compare to an expensive preamp.  I was really thinking hard about trying something like a high end VAC or even Rogue RP 9 or CJ maybe but all the accolades I keep reading about the Freya and even from users that haven't experienced how much better it can sound with better tubes makes me think it might not be worth the bother.  

lanx003: The Class A rating was in an issue where the Freya + was actually reviewed, but you likely know that. I've had the original version of the Freya since it first came out years ago and have raved about it, and noted that I'd compared it to much more expensive preamps (including my own). It's utterly a steal even today, and somehow the thing had really never had much audio geek press (in the audio mags I read anyway.)  I bet the reviewer would have appreciated the tube stage if it had better tubes (I stuck some new Tung Sols in mine and thought they weren't nearly as good as NOS GEs). The Topping seems fine but the Freya still does far more...including tubes. It will likely always suffer from being too inexpensive for some.

@invalid

+1 and Audio Research, Conrad Johnson, Pass, and other truly high end companies will still be there. Pushing the envelope, improving the sound that is possible. 

I've seen preamps like topping come and go, but in 10-20 years nobody will be trying to buy a topping because they will know better.

@mrmojo

I don’t understand your point.

I have a couple of true audiophile systems (see my UserID), I also own three Schiit components and have extensively auditioned another (Yggdrasil, Gungnir… head amp and amp). Never read their stated mission. I resisted auditioning or buying for years because of their name. But they earned consideration by their great performance compared to their cost.

They provide excellent budget high end products (cost effective mid-fi?), whatever you want to call them. They can be worth double or maybe triple the cost for there performance. But they do not outperform Class A products costing $10K or more. I have often heard multiple products from Class A in multiple categories and established in reality the more costly perform at higher levels. In fact, this was one of my first questions decades ago when I started reading Stereophile. I quickly got an answer when I bought an inexpensive Class A rated Phonostage… quickly upgrading up the list of components until I got to a significant level of performance. 

I suspect most people on this board haven't heard Schiit products, and don't care for the company's stated mission of providing cost-effective audiophile products. What if Schiit called themselves something more reverential, say "Acoustic Excellence"? And then let's say they chose to sell their product through dealers, so to maintain margins the Freya+ was now a $2,000 preamp. Still a relative bargain in the Class A world, but now with the added benefit of thousands of audiophiles being able to demo the unit for 5 minutes while talking in hushed tones about it's hybrid architecture and flexibility. Would that give it enough credibility for the hi-fi purists to not sniff about assumed mid-fi status?

The end game will be like this: The rich gets expensive Pass, the poor gets economic Topping and both of them enjoy preamp of similar SQ. No discrimination based on the socioeconomic status in the happy music listening wonderland.

Stereophile says: "Best attainable sound for a component of its kind"...there is the rub, they don't just say best sound period. Your thought is noble but it's still good to be the King and have a large budget for audio. 

A tube preamp without duplicative/reduntant gain...

A preamp is not redundant gain. It is processing the signal and presenting it to the amplifier in a manner that could work better than a signal directly from a source that may or may not match what the amp is looking for. 

@invalid When Stereophile decides to mix the different price categories, sound quality is literally the only major determinant factor. I don’t know exactly the reason why they award Class A to Schiit Freya+ before the review is up, but the review on Topping Pre90 is up already. You could take probably 30+ minutes’ patience to appreciate how the reviewer stacks up the $17,500 Pass XP32 with $599 Topping Pre90 (both rated class A). I think having such a budgetary class A gear is a win-win situation for the audiophiles who does not have $17,000 disposable money and only cares about the SQ. The end game will be like this: The rich gets expensive Pass, the poor gets economic Topping and both of them enjoy preamp of similar SQ. No discrimination based on the socioeconomic status in the happy music listening wonderland.

@invalid 

+1

isaacc7: A tube preamp without duplicative/reduntant gain, which it seems the Freya+ isn't. I have no interest in the SS state.

https://forum.audiogon.com/users/lanx0003 stereophile  they take price in consideration as well as sound quality looks and build quality, so a $1,000 amp might be rated class A it doesn't mean it's as good as a 50,000 amp in sound and build quality. Motor trend once had the Vega as car of the year, does that mean it was just as good as a Corvette.

@output555 When you say passive tube stage do you mean a stage without gain? Those are called buffers and are really helpful if you need to drive long interconnects. The "solid state" function of the Freya+ is in fact a buffer and adds no gain. The "passive" mode does not have the buffer stage. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I don't really consider it a real passive stage since there is still active circuitry involved. Maybe I'm a purist but I want my passive stages to be nothing but passive components like resisters or transformers. 

If you search for tube buffers you will find a variety of products out there but you're right, the Frey+ is not one of them. 

@invalid You seem to imply the class A defined by Stereophile does not mean the highest quality.  If so, please advise what does it really mean.  I am all ears.

I don't think some of the posters on this thread understand what stereophile class A really means.

Running an amp into an amp seems likes a huge compromise in sound, and running the Freya+ in passive SS mode negates the tube benefits.

Others may wish to comment on the first part of that sentence, but in the meantime I suggest you look elsewhere for a passive tube pre-amp.   I don't know of any myself, and perhaps there is a reason for that.

I've been looking at the Freya+ to pair with my Audio-GD Master 19 but have hesitated because the Freya+ is not passive in the tube stage. Running an amp into an amp seems likes a huge compromise in sound, and running the Freya+ in passive SS mode negates the tube benefits.

Any Freya+ owners care to share their thoughts?

@cromodora You can start a thread about credibility of magazine reviews

I reckon that there is an oxymoron somewhere in that sentence.  That would be my contribution to any discussion on the issue, and is still about ten words too many.

The rear panel power switch makes no sense.  For that reason I replaced mine with a Rogue Perseus & I'm pleased with the change.

I’m okay with missing the point of many of the posters.

I’m not here to make a point with them.

I am just mentioning another component wrt to subject raised by OP.

My reply is on topic.

You can start a thread about credibility of magazine reviews and I will join you in that discussion.

-1  @cromodora   Your missing the point of many of the posters? These are not class A level components just because "Stereophile" tell you so. Yes many of us are looking for that "giant killer" piece of gear that simply does not exit. Instead of believing there is one magical budget component work on room acoustics/power coditioning/dedicated power lines and system synergy(no weak link). This should create a system that plays well above its cost.

I think its’ pretty impressive that a 1000 preamp is put in the same category as 50K and up.

The Topping Pre90 preamp is in Stereophile preamplifier Class A category too and its a little bit more impressive at only $600.

+1 @ghdprentice 

The Freya is good as a passive preamp but mediocre in its tube mode. Definitely doesn’t compete with top-tier tube pres. 

As good & thorough & informative as many Stereophile reviews & ratings can be, they have their shortcomings. John Atkinson seems to be heavily steered towards solid state electronics because they almost always test better or at least closer to their specs. For sure specs have some value but great sound is really the only true test. There are many relatively inexpensive solid state amps (class A/B & especially class D) that test better than many excellent sounding tube amps but in 5 seconds w/ virtually any kind of music, it would be clear which sounds vastly superior. Are we truly supposed to believe that the Benchmark Preamp that he said tested better than any other preamp he's ever tried actually sounds better than the really expensive, high solid state & tubed units they also recommend?  I doubt it.  I also think any equipment review should include tube & solid state ancillary equipment because as we know, synergy between things can create vastly different results in any direction  there's often no predicting how things will turn out. . 

I also think Stereophile should mention in an equipment what other other competing products are in a similar price range & worth comparing to. They rarely do this & I think many would that valuable. I just hope that those company's who advertise in their magazine don't get preference for favorable reviews. For example, Basis Turntables have long been amongst the very best you can get for build & sound quality but they never list any of them at any of their price ranges in their recommended lists? The Absolute Sound has thought very highly of them since they first came around in the 80"s. I did notice a full page ad in Stereophile for Basis so let's see if that changes.......

I've ben impressed with my Freya+.  Upgraded the tubes of course to a nice matched quad of Tung-Sol.

I do not care for the volume/gain though.  Both in that I have to turn it way up to nearly the 1 or 2 o-clock position to get to decent volume levels, and I do not like the clickity click noise it makes when adjusting it.  Seems to have a lag to it as well when using the remote.

bsme85

03-15-2022 at 08:44pm

"Most, but not all, people who post here don’t listen to music. They listen to equipment instead."

Never were truer words spoken!

I’m one of those with OCD, which is driven to seek excellent sound quality and all that means, which mostly focuses on the equipment. Though, it also focuses on the type and quality of the song and how it was recorded and engineered - but - not so much on the lyrics and music. In other words, I prize how real the sound is, and how much of the artifacts of the performance are present - can I hear all the details of the performance, as the recording engineers might.

Though, I do appreciate and prefer certain types of musical genres (e.g. classical, jazz, blues, country, etc. - all things acoustic - in which those details are more apparent in the live performances - say in a jazz club, or hall, etc.

So... yes... you are so right about the typical "audiophile."

@hiendmmoe +1

Some form of clarification from Stereophile would be useful. I have frequently listened (and many times owned) cheap Class A and expensive Class A stuff… no comparison… but in general, if there is a Class A at $200, $1000, $5000, and $10,000, and $22,000 they are spot on worth their price at each price point. It is an attractive delusion that you can buy a $200 component that sounds as good as a $5000… but in reality it doesn’t happen. A company getting started can sell a product with exceptional sound quality… but this is not something that happens often or for long… great sounding equipment requires competent designs and costly components.

I think their rating system should have a class A low, medium and high high rating. This should be for all A,B,C,D. Clearly this preamp doesn’t have to build quality or reach the level of class A $10,000-100,000. Sonically. What this reviewer heard was probably very fine $1000. Preamp work well in his system. I bet if he put that preamp in ultra high end class A system it probably sound like Shcitt.

@mrmojo   THX for proving my point!

I am happy with Freya+ for what it can deliver after replacing JJ tubes with Tung sol.

it sounds clean, detailed without any hum or external noise, it is not the most engaging or warm comforting, smooth sounding preamp( AR ref6, CJ )but for my desktop system it is perfect.

i have Revel,BE126speakers connected via Chord Etude AMP,OPPO105 as CD player,,i also listen to Qobuz via Mc MB20( Blue tooth).

one has to wait few weeks for delivery of Freya+ preamp.

syed

Lots of posters on this board who are obviously unfamiliar with the concept of the sunk cost fallacy.

+1  @verdantaudio   Many of us know it's the only way to market budget gear. There is such fear(to some)in HEA about being overcharged due to DIY/snake oil proponents, dealer profits, law of diminishing returns ect.  Stereophile is capitalizing on this fear awarding questionable components class A status. Basically telling you your only paying for build quality/cosmetics and status if you purchase a true hi end product. This is what the mid-fi buyer believes thus verifying his purchase with "so-called" experts opinions.

I had one of these that I took on trade.  They must score these things and divide by price to put it in a tier.  It is the only possible explanation. 

The Freya+ was a step down from the onboard preamp in the Chord Hugo2 (not TT2, the headphone amp).  I cannot see how it is a Class A component without the context of price.  Literally, my wife asked what was wrong with my system with the Schiit in it. 

When I went direct from the DAC it returned to a more normal sound.  Admittedly, she is used to much more expensive preamps from Ayre, PS Audio, AVM and Art Audio but I guess that is the literal point here.  

I think they should divide it into three categories. Budget, Mid-Priced and High End. You can then categorize the Freya+ as Class A Budget.