Jazz trumpeters playing ballads in the mid and low register of that magnificent instrument, utter musical beauty. Think Gene Tierney or Grace Kelly. I could be happy with Gene, Grace or Sophia. Different flavors, all good.
Charles
Saxaphone vs. Trumpet...Which do you prefer?
It’s not the first time I’ve thought about it, but it came up again last night as I was listening to Quintessence volume 2, Stan Getz and Chet Baker recorded live. (an amazing disc) I have to say that for myself, I prefer the saxophone because it seems capable of infinite textures and subtle shadings as well as eye opening dynamic shifts. Of course I love the trumpet too; especially in the hands of a player like Chet Baker.
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Trumpets are great when you're done with too much Sax. Flutes in jazz are really annoying. Let's not forget Buddy Tate, Wallace Davenport, Erskin Hawkins, Sam Butera, Lester Young, Cootie Williams, Harry Edison, Scott Hamilton, Haywood Henry, John Handy, Stan Turrentine, King Curtis and Percy Humphry |
This guy just does it all.....I mean ALL except the drum kit. To me James Morrison is a once in a life time all-rounder! Talk about adjusting your chops. lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpiCEVHtHXM |
I am biased - see my user image. That is my tuner screen-shot of me working on the "unobtainium" octave. Hey, I’m within 2 cents at 105 dB :) Here, listen to this soli section nugget by the Smokin Section - Steve Patrick on lead and Joe M. on sax. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA05dbvvmi4 |
I concur on the Sax. I have all the original master tape recordings of Stan Getzs' very best work. The number one selling jazz album of all time, as many are aware is "Kind of Blue" by Miles and an album that will stand the sands of time which we never get tired of, due to its hypnotic spell it puts you in. The number two selling jazz album of all time, "Jazz Samba" by Stan Getz. Stunning piece of work. Miles and Stan were at the top of the heap. Miles was asked in a interview in the early 60's what he thought about Stan Getz..his response was " If only we could play like Stan ". |
A lot of the classic Blue Note jazz records from the 50s and 60s had both instruments in the ensemble with the sax on one channel and the trumpet on the other channel- I'm talking about the stereo versions of course. They sound great together! A good system test is how well your system can highlight the timbres of both instruments as distinct from each other. Does your system tend to blend the sounds as a single "horn" sound or can you easily distinguish the tone of the sax and the tone of the trumpet when both are playing together? |
charles1dad made a comment : " 5 truly superb musicians who’ve mastered their respective instrument ". I very well understand, that someone can enjoy the " sound of a particular instrument ", but instruments, require someone to play them." Any instrument, can be simply glorious, when played by a master. I enjoy, pretty much every musician mentioned above. I purchase / listen to them all, for the beauty of their " musicianship ". If I want to listen to instruments ( and I am talking live, non recorded ), I can do that, by visiting the local high school band ( and, I do not mean that in a derogatory way ). Enjoy ! MrD. |
I fall in line with Frogman in that one instrument isn’t "easier" to play or master than another. Watching the above video displayed 5 truly superb musicians who’ve mastered their respective instrument, is it more difficult to play the drum kit to the level of Tony Williams or acoustic bass like Ron Carter? Herbie Hancock’s piano or Henderson’s tenor saxophone? I believe it’s analogous to athletic talent in that people have very specific skill sets.Could Freddie Hubbard have been a great saxophonist or Henderson a great drummer? Tiger Woods beats Michael Jordan all day and any time on a golf course. Jordan over Tiger on the basketball court. Usain Bolt handles both of them with ease on the track. Some people were just born to be extraordinarily special at a specific task. Consider different skill sets on the same instrument. Theloneus Monk vs Oscar Peterson, both of them iconic jazz pianists yet so different. Charles |
Take listen to Freddie Hubbard and Joe Henderson on this live performance of Herbie Hancock's Cantaloupe Island and see if you can pick a favorite! https://youtu.be/2VN8zH366M8 |
Chazro is correct re the saxophone/trumpet “speed” issue. The comment about the mouthpiece/reed interface is only partly correct. However, talk to a trumpet player, particularly one who usually plays high section parts, and the stories about “chop problems” due to the incredible amount of stress that playing the trumpet in that range (and any range) puts on the face and lip muscles, not to mention the stress on the physical breathing apparatus due to all the resistance/back pressure will be endless. Additionally, all this has little to do with the mechanics of playing fast. The saxophone lends itself much more to fast playing for various reasons. From a historical perspective, the choice of trumpet for the “Latin sound” goes back centuries and all the way back to Spain, Mexico and then the Caribbean. The saxophone is a relatively recent American creation and a sound that is not in the genetic fiber of Latin Music which came to it much more recently (for obvious reasons). Re the “speed” issue, it is very commonly used in the Dominican “Merengue” style playing precisely “very fast, repetitive rhythmic figures." |
Sax or Trumpet Unless your systems can reproduce the subtle reed vibrations of the SAX or the hard Brassy ring of the Trumpet to your ears from your system. "Then you haven’t got the RIGHT gear." according to Michael Fremer of Sterophile Mag and Audio Planet. So There all!! p.s. I play both for 30++ years. |
"Saxophones can do this, too--but due to the reed/tongue/embrochure interface (more complex physically than the mouthpiece/mouth interface of the trumpet), it's somewhat harder for saxes to exactly produce & follow very fast, repetitive rhythmic figures." It may be harder, but this statement seems wrong. I own so many recordings of blistering sax sections (especially within the Latin Jazz/Salsa genre, my absolute favorite!) keeping up with and augmenting the trumpet sections. I imagine most of us do. Perhaps I misunderstood it, because as it reads, it's practically nonsensical! |
These instruments are not that comparable physically or acoustically. In the hands of master players, each can sound sublime. I follow numerous jazz players on each instrument, past and present, including trumpet players such like Miles Davis, Louis Armstrong, Clifford Brown, Clark Terry, Blue Mitchell, Tom Harrell, Bix Beiderbecke, Ryan Kisor, Dave Douglas; and sax players like Stan Getz, John Coltrane, Coleman Hawkins, Charlie Parker, Lester Young, Ben Webster, Cannonball Adderly, Wayne Shorter, Joe Henderson, Chris Potter. I could go on for pages more... I have learned one thing about trumpets courtesy of Latin jazz & ensemble genre music: the trumpet is perfectly adapted to play rhythmic lines/figures along w/the rhythm section in an ensemble, thus amplifying the overall rhythmic depth/impact. This capability has been fully exploited by many larger ensembles that play Cubano/Bop music over the years. To see what I mean, listen to the mambo cuts on Tito Puente's "Top Percussion," where sections of 2-4 trumpets double & build on the patterns played by various rhythm instruments. Saxophones can do this, too--but due to the reed/tongue/embrochure interface (more complex physically than the mouthpiece/mouth interface of the trumpet), it's somewhat harder for saxes to exactly produce & follow very fast, repetitive rhythmic figures. |
Playing Clora Bryant in memoriam. Lone female trumpeter to perform and collaborate with Louis Armstrong, Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie. She passed on August 25th at the tender age of 92. https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/obituaries/clora-bryant-barrier-breaking-jazz-trumpeter-dies-at-92/2019/09/04/6889da0a-ce5b-11e9-8c1c-7c8ee785b855_story.html?noredirect=on |
Oh, yeah? Jazz saxophone great Eddie Harris beat you to it 😊. He would sometimes play his creation the reed trumpet; trumpet with saxophone mouthpiece. https://youtu.be/NMmjh4qkEZY How about the slide saxophone (and more): https://youtu.be/p-b6I1ihh2s |
Frogman, thank you very much for your informative reply. I knew if anyone could provide a reas Charles |
+1 Thad Jones. Charles mentions the cornet. Thad Jones often played cornet. He was probably responsible for reintroducing the cornet to jazz while a member of the Count Basie orchestra. The instrument, once very popular, had been practically forgotten in more modern (jazz)times. While it is true that the saxophone inspired controversy when first introduced, I have to take exception with the impression that the title and overview of Erik’s book recommendation. The saxophone was invented by Adolf Sax in the late 1800’s as an orchestral “bridge” between the general sound of the woodwinds and that of the brass. It had the flexibility of the woodwinds and the power of the brass. It was (is) considered to be the instrument closest in sound to the human voice and, as such, its first use by composers was in choral music. It was intended to keep choral singers on pitch while blending well with their timbre. It became very popular and just about every major Classical composer at the time scored it in at least one major work. With the arrival of early Jazz there literally ensued a saxophone craze in popular music. There were many saxophones created in different keys (and sizes) other than what we know today which are now obsolete. Adolf’s very first saxophone creation was actually a bass saxophone. Re the baritone and Charles’ question: Urban myth. While it is true that a person of very small stature or a beginner child would do well to play a smaller instrument, the baritone is actually easier to play than the smaller horns in some respects. Due to its larger bore there is less internal resistance. The low register in particular is easier to play than on smaller horns. The key work is necessarily spread out more to the hand; less tight and crowded for potentially more relaxed hand position. All instruments within any given family of instruments (and across families) present the player with unique and idiosyncratic difficulties. The idea that any one instrument is “easier” than another is mostly myth. Some such as the flute may seem easier to make a reasonable sound on AT FIRST, but may be more difficult to take to the next level of proficiency. They are all equally difficult for the most part. Regards |
In case anyone is interested, there's a great "biography" of the sax here: https://amzn.to/2ZyFgq7 When first introduced, the sax was controversial for more reasons than the sound. |
In jazz, it's probably a toss up. But in pop/rock, except for Chicago and Blood, Sweat, and Tears, saxophones are clearly used more often. Think of Springsteen (the great
Clarence Clemons), Bowie, The Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, Billy Joel, Carole King, and many, many others. There are countless pop/rock songs with a nice little sax solo as the bridge and not nearly as many with a trumpet solo. Probably because the sax just has a little softer and more pleasing sound. |
+1 Chazro....and I’m a saxophone player. +1 Charles...all in fun. https://www.pinterest.com/pin/385339311863595349/ https://youtu.be/2Ykbtg9pGLc Btw, spelled saxOphone. Freudian slip? 😉 |
the doors did not have a bass player in live performance (Manzarek played the bass parts on, not his cheesy Farfisa organ, but on the almost-as-cheesy Fender Keyboard Bass which sat atop his organ. Live, it sounded somewhat like a child’s toy version of the Rhodes electric piano), but they absolutely did in their recordings (not all---Manzarek did play that horrid Keyboard Bass on some of their songs.). Uncredited on the albums of course, but subsequently identified. A number of them, infact. |