@facten
I have no skin in this, but based upon reading posts over the last year or so the QC issue(s) has been a known for some time . It would seem that Project would have long since addressed its production and overall QC especially given its price point
I concur 100%. This should have been recognized and corrected earlier. I suppose better late than never. I have posted often on these forms as a very happy and impressed owner of the RS2T. Every one sold should perform splendidly as mine has, rather than hit and miss outcomes. Pro-Ject must ensure that the transport reliability equals its brilliant sound quality.
Charles
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Wharfy/David: Thanks for the return post. I am so lucky (so far) with my 3rd (hopefully a winner) RS2T. I also invested through LT Audio a LPS and the DAC combo sounds GREAT.
In my secondary system, I use a DAC 3B Benchmark, and an Audio lab 6000CDT. Just added a ANTI CABLE Level 3 power cable to the DAC, big improvement, I was very surprised as I wasn't expecting much. I really like my DAC 3B, but was wondering what a step up the ladder might offer. Similar experiment in main room with Meitner and RS2T reveled quite a step forward. If I was to consider (which i AM) another Transport it may be the Jays audio CDT2 ( not sure the proper designation) but the unit that sells US for about 2.5k. Maybe even consider buying an extra laser unit?? On the DAC side looking at an upgrade (hopefully) maybe a used Merison DAC1 or T+A 200 DAC, Abbas 3.2 se DAC? Just tossing these thoughts around, looking for others inputs. Currently waiting for delivery (much anticipated) another couple of months a NEW pair of Tekton MOAB"S with BE tweeter for main listening area. Money very tight after recent purchase, more research than anything else, unless a GREAT deal jumped out. Thanks again, Robert TN
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"To my understanding Pro-Ject is addressing and troubleshooting the problem "
I have no skin in this, but based upon reading posts over the last year or so the QC issue(s) has been a known for some time . It would seem that Project would have long since addressed its production and overall QC especially given its price point.
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Off the wall suggestion.
Now I know the OP specified a CD Transport and doesn’t want a streamer.
However….the Melco optical player can be used to either burn CDs to a Melco NAS or to play a CD. It has to be connected to the NAS/player by usb in order to play the CDs. I think it is a pretty quiet and resolving transport, but no I haven’t done side by side comparisons with the other CDTs mentioned here. However…if it were of interest to the OP…besides playing CDs he would be able to rip them to a NAS.
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I agree about the rs2 but luckily had no issues and with seperate power supply for this and the rs2 dac quality went through the roof. I do get bored of peoe suggesting a server or streaming as I think as friends who blind listened that the cd still beats the same album on Qoboz (at a higher quality) It makes No Sense but the ears preferred.... As for alternatives I would love to hear the Cec transports
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@wharfy
I go back and forth about purchasing another RS2T. I love everything about the sound. And at the price, it's a bargain. The CD Box reminds me of a Fiat ("Fixing it always trouble")
I understand your hesitation. To my understanding Pro-Ject is addressing and troubleshooting the problem (As they most certainly should). Although you enjoyed superb sound quality, a shame you had to endure the unnecessary reliability issues.
There are other fine CD transport alternatives undoubtedly. It's just that you're acutely aware of what you had sonically with the RS2T. A homerun concerning performance, a dropped ball regarding consistent unit to unit quality control. I wish you the best.
Charles
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@robshaw
I go back and forth about purchasing another RS2T. I love everything about the sound. And at the price, it's a bargain. The CD Box reminds me of a Fiat ("Fixing it always trouble") my neighbor once owned. When it was up and running it was a dream.
I agree TMR is a terrific dealer. I have had nothing but terrific experiences with them. They told me they wouldn't ship another RS2T until Pro-Ject/Sumiko addresses quality and customer service. I would like to add it CD Box back into my system, but at this rate I may be too old to fully appreciate what it has to offer 🤨
I've heard the Meitner MA-1 V2 DAC. It's very, very nice. I imagine you have terrific synergy. All best on your sonic journeys. I hope you find your "Holy Grail."
David
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@lalitk -
Thanks for the tip! Just purchased. That's a terrific site, BTW. Lots of "candy."
David
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David @wharfy
I hear you on remastering. “Kind of Blue” is one my favorite recording. I used to own atleast 5 or 6 copies on CD’s but my search ended when I purchased 2011 release on K2HD. Granted, I haven’t heard every digital version but K2HD version is simply stellar.
If you’re a fan of Dexter Gordon, you must consider purchasing this version before they are gone! Once you hear these Blue Note gems, your investment in a high quality transport/DAC combination makes it worthwhile. Alan Yoshida is a master craftsman!
https://elusivedisc.com/dexter-gordon-a-swingin-affair-xrcd24/
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@thyname
Very few people who buy a transport will care if it plays HDCDs but I wanted to point out the problem because a lot of people read these forums and maybe someone would benefit from knowing that. Berkeley makes the only current HDCD DACs that I know of but many vintage DACs and players have that feature. I also have a Krell KAV 250/2 player that has the HDCD feature.
I have to take issue with your comments about HDCD, however. There are a lot of titles that were recorded using HDCD and a bunch of my favorite artists used the format - Joni Mitchell, Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young, Neil Young, Van Halen, Grateful Dead, Roxy Music, Dixie Chicks, kd Lang..... I could go on. Besides these well known artists there is a whole audiophile catalog on Reference Recordings that is HDCD encoded. There are also other audiophile labels such as Audio Fidelity and Audioquest that have released dozens of remastered tities using HDCD.
In my experience HDCD discs when played through top grade players and DACs typically sound significantly better than their regular counterparts. I've got 4 versions of CSN's CD including SACD and I like the HDCD version best. One of the reasons that HDCD sounds so good is because the Pacific Microsonic converters were pretty much the best of their time. Another reason is that the studios that invested in the Pacific Microsonics gear, which was expensive, tended to be the better studios staffed with the best engineers. The HDCD process itself gives a little more dynamic range and improves the sound as well. In nearly every case where I have the non-HDCD version vs. the HDCD version the HDCD sounds better. There are a few that I've compared that sound very similar but I've never heard an example where the HDCD is worse.
I have about two hundred HDCD titles out of a collection of around 4,000 CDs which is not a huge percentage but it is still significant. I actively collect HDCD titles because I like the sound of them and I have the equipment to decode them. I probably would have still purchased the Jay's Audio CD3 if I had known that it would not play HDCDs but I was disappointed to find this out after I bought it. It's such a nice piece of gear that will accept this particular fault.
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I currently own a RS2T. I went through 2 prior units that were faulty. Charles 1 and I went back and forth with posts. He stated 3 strikes and your out. When the earlier units were working they were to die for, my audiolab 6000CDT is a great unit for the money. The RS2T is in a completely different league. It is SUPERB, with a good or great DAC (using now a Meitner MA-1 V2 DAC) I bought a 3rd from the Music Room, (great to deal with) so far, almost a year, GREAT!!!! NOTE: TMR told me due to issues the RS2T is on hold with them until further notice.
I am currently thinking about another transport also for another room, so this article is most interesting. Deciding to upgrade a 6000cdt or a benchmark DAC 3b,(which I really LIKE) in that other room??? Thanks to all that participated. Now the homework. Thank you
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@wharfy
One of the great discoveries I made via streaming was this Dexter Gordon gem.
Dexter Gordon Featuring Joe Newman. It’s not a particularly great recording, with some questionable editing of songs. But the musicianship is top rate
Thanks David . Newman is a 1st rate jazz trumpeter but in my opinion, under appreciated. I feel the same way about Kenny Dorham whom I’m sure you are familiar with. I’ll seek out this recording. I’m a huge Dexter Gordon fan.
Charles
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@wharfy :
Did you have an opportunity to audition it in your system before purchase?
I did not. Because I could not in the case of Jay's Audio CDTs. But I did my own research, I created a short list of possible candidates, some of which I was able to audition, some not. Then I took the leap of faith.
And honesty, even you already have a shortlist, it will be practically impossible to audition everything in your list. Unless you wait a very long time. What I was trying to say is that whatever recommendation you get from other people (like myself included) here, it is helpful to the extent of helping you to build a list for considerations. We all hear differently, have different tastes in sound, so take it all with a grain of salt IMHO
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@lalitk
Definitely is my experience on my audio equipment. You got me thinking with your response how CD remastering and reissues can make absolute statements like "always sound better of CD" anachronistic. For instance, how many "Kind of Blue" remastering reissues are there? I have two on CD, two on records. TIDAL has more than that. I'm sure I can find a reissue on TIDAL that sounds better than the $1.99 copy I purchased at CD World in the early 2000s.
So yes, point taken.
David
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@thyname
"You got a lot of recommendations here to build a short lists. I am so sorry to say at this point you have to listen, compare and contrast by yourself. "
I have a great deal of respect for the cumulative insights and knowledge of the forum members. If I'm going to pay thousands of dollars for a CD transport I can't audition, and possibly not return after purchase, I'm going to ask lots of questions.
You have provided a great deal of valuable info about Jay's CD transport. Did you have an opportunity to audition it in your system before purchase?
Regards,
David
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The sound quality from TIDAL/Aurender is very, very good. But, CDs played through a terrific transport/DAC combination always sounds better.
I may be wrong but I thought that David was clearly referring to his specific listening experience with his own audio system and not making a general proclamation for all.
Charles
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@wharfy
The sound quality from TIDAL/Aurender is very, very good. But, CDs played through a terrific transport/DAC combination always sounds better.
Saying CD’s always sounds better is bit of a reach. This may very well be your experience with certain recordings but simply not possible across the board. I have heard and compared recordings on both formats and they both can sound stellar to mediocre. Why? Because of provenance and mastering of a recording. They are the key differentiator between us loving or hating a recording, IMHO.
My system - Aurender N30SA ➡️ Merging Technologies DAC with external power supply and both DAC and N30SA are synchronized by external Merging +clock.
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@thyname
You got a lot of recommendations here to build a short lists. I am so sorry to say at this point you have to listen, compare and contrast by yourself.
I think everyone would agree that an in home audition of audio components is the ideal scenario. Not always possible to arrange unfortunately. I have found listening impressions from experienced forum members very valuable over the years.
I try to hear as much as I can in person but you can’t hear everything all of the time. I have been made aware of audio components completely unknown to me via forum participation. I discovered my current Abbas DAC via a thread on WBF. I’m grateful for that exposure.
No auditioning was available. DAC is built by order in Ukraine by a very talented one man operation. I’m so glad I took the chance given the dire situation. The DAC is fabulous!
Charles
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@wharfy
The sound quality from TIDAL/Aurender is very, very good. But, CDs played through a terrific transport/DAC combination always sounds better.
Have you heard Stan Getz and the Oscar Peterson Trio (1956)?
David,
Thanks for your reply. No doubt that both audio formats call easily coexist seamlessly. I’ll get into audio streaming eventually. I enjoy the Pro-Ject RS2T and Abbas 3.2SE DAC so much I am just thoroughly content for now. I’ll at some time duplicate what you are doing.😊
I have heard Getz-Peterson (Jazz radio) but do not have any of their recordings (Yet).
Charles
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Let’s be serious, what is the number of albums in HDCD format? And what are the chances the music / artist you like is in that format? Unless you are the type of guy who use the music the listen to the gear. Which is exactly what ASR crowd blames the Audiophiles for doing.
Also:
I am interested hearing your comparisons and contrasts.
You got a lot of recommendations here to build a short lists. I am so sorry to say at this point you have to listen, compare and contrast by yourself.
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@8th-note
Your observations of Jay's CDT3 concur with what others on discussion boards, and a couple of trade magazine reviews have said. HDCD is a resolving format and can easily understand why having a cd player that decodes is a good thing.
Like Charles1Dad said, I am interested hearing your comparisons and contrasts.
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@charles1dad -
I have TIDAL and Aurender has terrific synergy/sound quality. I like putting on the streamer when I want to listen/sample in depth musicians and/or types of music. There are times I find something I really like and then will buy the CD. Other times I listen to something and while I like it, it's not something I will own. TIDAL will also have music I can't get on CD.
Aurender also has an internet radio feature. I often listen to this jazz station out of San Diego.
https://www.jazz88.org/#:~:text=San%20Diego's%20Jazz%2088.3%20FM%20%2D%20KSDS
The sound quality from TIDAL/Aurender is very, very good. But, CDs played through a terrific transport/DAC combination always sounds better.
Have you heard Stan Getz and the Oscar Peterson Trio (1956)?
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@wharfy "The Sim has transport issues"
I have a 260D in my second system , it was in my main system before I purchased a Neodio CD player last August . I have had no issues with the transport or anything else. I don’t know how it sounds vis a vis a Jay’s or the Project but I find it to have very good SQ especially via the AES/EBU output. The Sim is significantly better than the Cambridge CXC which I had before it.
Anyway, best of luck with whichever transport you select.
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@charles1dad
Thanks!
Acquiring the Jay’s initiated a learning curve involving a very high level of frustration stretching over several months but I once I managed to restore tonal balance (thanks to recommendations by forum members), I began to really appreciate what it brought to the system.
@wharfy
I didn’t have any issues with my Moon 260 but the Jay’s is significantly more resolving.
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@wharfy
Do you split your time equally between CDs and streaming or is it more the latter for convenience/large streaming library?
Charles
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I had 2 Simaudio CD Players, and both had major transport problems...have the Primare CD35 and think it is excellent...
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@curiousjim
My DAC has I2S capability and that's something I'm factoring in. I had a Holo DAC and ran a Singxer bridge between my Aurender music server and the DAC. I noticed an improvement in sound quality.
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@twoleftears
More good recommendations! TY
I researched and listened to both the Simaudio 260d and the Primare DD35.
The Sim has transport issues, which is what torpedoed my second Pro-Ject transport. I auditioned the Primare in my system and was underwhelmed.
Haven't heard the Audiolab 9000cdt. When looking for a cd transport to replace an ailing Arcam, I auditioned the 6000cdt and a Cambridge CXC. I chose the CXC.
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I'd consider waiting until all the bugs are worked out of the new Schiit transport and for a couple of reviews. I have only owned two lesser priced Schiit products, the SYS and Lokius, but like their overall business model.
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@8th-note
The TEAC 701 versus the Jay’s Audio CD transport will be most interesting. I hope that you are able to do this at some point.
@stuartk
It is good to read that the Jay’s Audio CDT2 has worked out well for you. Congratulations!!
Charles
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@wharfy
So I have the Audiolab CDT6000 and an OPPO running into a Pontus ll and they sound pretty close to me. If I was to upgrade my Transport, I’d look for I2S to get the best sound output and the Teac does not have, but the Jay’s Audio CDT2 MK3 does.
All the best.
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I must agree with nonoise. Posting a reply that is not an answer is not likely to be helpful or even appreciated. A person may have reasons for not streaming, such as lack of bandwidth. Where I live fibreop has been within four kilometres for two years without moving any closer. Streaming means nobody else in the home would have access to wifi while I listen to music.
At the very least, prefacing your reply with a question as to whether or not the OP has considered other options would appear (to me) to be both more helpful and less arrogant. After all, one person's path is not necessarily everyone's.
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@wharfy
Yes, but I’m not able to comment on that unit’s sound because I simply could not deal with its small dimensions -- I found it so impractical that I quickly reboxed it and sent it back to TMR. Therefore, I spent very little time listening. For whatever it’s worth those who’ve heard both seem to consistently favor the pro-ject’s sonics, so I’m an outlier.
I have my system pretty well dialed in at this point and have no complaints about resolution but keep in mind I’m quite sensitive to any hint of fatigue or forwardness and am willing to sacrifice a modicum of resolution for the sake of musicality. If resolution is a top priority, the pro-ject or the Jay’s CDT3MKIII might be better choices for you.
If TMR still sells pro-ject, you could take advantage of their return policy, keeping in mind the fact they’ve begun charging a restock fee. Good luck!
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I bought a Jay's CD3 Mk III a few months ago and I highly recommend it. It's massively well built and a pleasure to use. I have compared it to my Marantz KI Ruby SACD player's transport into my Berkeley Alpha Reference 2 DAC and I can't hear much difference. They both sound great. I think I can hear a slight improvement in soundstage when I use the 4X oversampling but it's very subtle.
I've got a Teac 701 on order from Music Direct. They show it as on backorder but I believe that Teac is not yet shipping this unit and I don't know when it will be available.
Why would I want a Teac transport as well as the Jay's audio? It turns out that the CD3 has a characteristic that is a downside for my situation. I collect HDCDs (the Alpha DAC decodes them) but the CD3 doesn't play them. It apparently uses dither on the first bit where the HDCD instructions are encoded. If you read the Stereophile review they note that the transport uses dither which is unusual. When you turn on the 4X oversampling it uses all the bits but that doesn't work for HDCD.
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OP,
The Teac does look like a really good unit, but I’ve never heard it. I have auditioned the Jay’s CDT2 MkIII both in a friends system, and in mine. It is without a doubt the best CD transport I’ve ever had the pleasure of hearing.
Very detailed, yet not at all bright or fatiguing. In my system it was paired with a Tubes4HiFi VTA St-120 tube amp, and a Denafrips stack which leans toward a more relaxed slightly warmer sound. The extra detail was a welcome addition to both combos, and a great pairing. I decided to put off my purchase of the Jay’s unit, and stick with my Audiolab CDT6000 for now (a great inexpensive transport), so I could upgrade my streaming rig…..going forwards I see myself streaming more than adding to my CD collection.
Best of luck
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David,
Audiogon member @wig owned the CDT2 MK II and MK III as well as the RS2T. I’d contact him via this site’s email. He is insightful and knowledgeable.
Charles
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I own the CEC TL5......I bought it because they are top loaders ( no more probs with front loaders) and they are BELT DRIVEN , just like a turntable.....getting rid of the direct drive vibration and rumble is paramount to extracting the purity of the music and playing it in a most natural way. I love it and the Japanese quality in top notch.
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@wharfy - fwiw, I heard the least cost CEC in my system and it made involving sweet music but not quite enough air, space and detail for me to keep. The more expensive models would probably be worth a listen.
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@wharfy
Hi David,
Ha! I should have known better that you have these terrific recordings. You know what? I own the 3 you recommended.😊
Not surprising I suppose, good taste and all that stuff right!! This is exactly why my listening sessions are frequent and usually go 4 hours or so. With your ears and taste get the best CD transport you can afford.
Charles
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@wharfy - PM me as I may be able to help you with new products and the CEC.
Peter
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I have the Jay's cdt2-mk3 and bought a back up Phillips drive just in case. It has been flawless in every way and sounds as good as my analog end costing three times more, specially using the I2s connection via a Tubulus Concentus cable.
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@charles1dad -
Yes, for old times sake! I have each of the CD's mentioned. Excellent, indeed. And wonderful recordings with intimacy best appreciated on a resolving audio system.
Have you heard these?
Curtis Counce-You get more bounce with Curtis Counce!-fantastic bass player, and the selections go between hard and cool 'bop. Terrific recording, too boot.
Dexter Gordon-Doin' Allright and One Flight Up
Lee Konitz with Warne Marsh
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@wturkey -
Sonic Frontiers is great. I still own a modified/parts upgraded Power 1.
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@bigkidz -
You are a wealth of information, and between you and Charles1dad helped me decide on purchasing the Pro-Ject CD Box. I was very fortunate that I was able to return the second CD Box for refund, so I do not have one to offer up.
The CEC transports are intriguing. But, what a pain finding info about them. I know Audio Union sells them, but their website wrt prices in not user friendly.
Do you have any further thoughts on the CEC TL2N or TL03.0?
Thanks!
David
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@stuartk -
Thanks for your insights! I recall, from another thread, you briefly owned the Pro-Ject CD Box. How would you compare the sound quality, presentation etc.. between your Jay's CD transport and the Pro-Ject?
Thanks!
David
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@thyname
Thanks for weighing in. Have been reading/comparing the two Jay's transports recommended here. Have you compared either to the Pro-Ject CD Box?
And what do you mean by "house sound"?
Thanks!
David
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