Greetings!
I have spent the weekend listening to the Schiit Urd. While it isn’t fully broken in, these are my impressions. For the price it is a terrific CD transport. The Phillips based mechanism presents a deep and wide soundstage. Instruments can be located in space because the unit is very quiet via both AES and USB connections. How were they able to do this at this price point?
As a digital "traffic controller" for my Aurender N200 it was "ok". Even with AES connections, which is one of the features that interested me, I surprisingly lost resolution through the unit, into my Musetec DAC005. Anyone have an idea why?
Now, compared to the ARC REF CD6SE, I am currently using (Thanks Michael!!), this is what I am hearing. Again, the Urd is still burning in. First, I have ARC components and the synergy between the REF CD is obvious. With that said, most of what the Urd does, the REF CD6SE does better, to my ears. The Urd does have a more forward soundstage and the sound in my system, with my ProAcs is bigger and slightly less focused.
I think the Urd is really good, and I have some more time with it before I need to return it, so we shall see.
David
|
@charles1dad
I'm enjoying the opportunity to audition transports/CD players. My extended loan of the ARC CD6SE is finite (beginning of December) because the owner purchased an Aqua HiFi La Diva M2 CD Transport (an awesome transport, out of my price range), and is going to sell the ARC.
While I'm looking forward to, and waiting for inventory, to audition the TEAC 701T, I'm going to give the Denon, DCD-D110 110th Anniversary Edition SACD/CD player a listen. The Denon has features I look for-powerful transformers, reduced vibration in both the CD mechanism and circuit boards, along with shorter signal paths. The specs say it weighs in at over 40 lbs!
David
|
I had the opportunity to hear the Denon DCD-A110 Anniversary Edition SACD/CD Player last night. It was in a system with a Musical Fidelity M6SI integrated amp, and Spendor A4 speakers.
Physically, the CD player is a 40 lb beast--nicely machine gun metal/graphite grey all metal exterior, including the CD drawer. It also has a great remote. Outputs are both balanced and RCA. I did not hear the unit via XLR because the owner has many SACDs and they only play via the RCA jacks. The sound characteristics of the CD player are detailed and not clinical or harsh because it has a warm sound. It projects a bold, but not fatiguing sound.
For me, while the warm sound is appealing, it comes at the expense of imaging and soundstage. Beyond the first layer of instruments and vocals there is a noticeable drop-off, or recess in drums, bass and music that is in the background. So, it loses some front-to-back three dimensionality as a result. Nonetheless, I liked it, but would not own one.
I'm still waiting for the opportunity to hear the TEAC 701T. BUT, the clock is ticking....my loaner goes up for sale on 12/1, and I have first dibs. The owner says purchasing it, and getting a replacement CDPro2, just in case, from ARC ($500 with S/H) is a no brainer with my ARC components.
|
@jetter -Yes. Good advice. I did contact them and the CDPro2 replacement is available.
@magnuman -That's quite a recommendation! If I can audition the 701T in the next week, I will give it serious consideration.
|
@charles1dad -
"Sounds like a good plan. You have heard it in your system and confirmed it is a fantastic fit."
I think so, also. The REF CD6SE is a terrific unit. I wasn't entirely "sold" on the sound when first listening to it. Coming from the Pro-Ject CD Box, the ARC was a bit more "in your face" than the previous transport. Music presentation from the ARC is the third row, while the CD Box is row 8, so to speak. With that said, I really like the synergy, it's built like a tank, and ARC still services it.
BTW, we haven't talked jazz CDs in a while. I went to one of my favorite used CD stores in Northern NJ and traded in many CDs I no longer listen to for the following-
2 Sonny Rollins CDs-Newk's Time and Worktime
Gene Ammons and Sonny Stitt-Boss Tenors
Miles Davis-Miles Smiles
The Best of Bud Powell on Verve
Paul Desmond and Gerry Mulligan-Two of a Mind
I will give them close listens in the next couple of days.
David
|
|
@thyname -Nothing irrational. I like the Urd. Compared to the ARC CD6SE that's currently in my system, I like the CD6SE more. I think it's because my other components are also ARC.
If I wanted a second system, with different components that I could build around/complement the Urd, I would consider it. I think the natural complement for the Urd would be other Schiit components. It's a no brainer to me that the Yiggy would be the DAC to use with the Urd.
What are your deeper thoughts?
|
@thyname -
"I just saw you said you like X equipment quite a bit, but decided to send it back nonetheless. It stroke me as odd, but hey…"
A. Like the overly choosy diner, I'm not someone you would want to have dinner with.
B. Guess I'm odd.
C. I never purchase what i really like. Like Don Quijote, I'm on an endless quest and never satisfied.
D. All the above .
|
@thyname
"@wharfy : 😂😂. That’s funny! Thanks for being sport"
All the best for you as we enter the holiday season.
David
|
FYI-The search is over and the decision is made. Likely not a surprise, I'm going with the ARC REF CD 6SE, that's on loan (Hope you are okay with that, thyneame :-)). Ultimately, the synergy with my other ARC components, the ability to get a replacement CD Pro lens kit (just ordered), and the sound presentation make this almost a no-brainer.
I think the final decision to go with the ARC is the above comment I made to a poster in another thread, as he was deciding to go with an ARC REF CD player, or another transport.
With that said...when working the way it's supposed to, the Pro-Ject CD Box RS2T has the best overall presentation I've heard, at this point. I'm still wistful that I couldn't get one that in one way, or another, didn't "s*** the bed."
Hoping you all have a terrific Thanksgiving, if you are celebrating. I'm grateful for all the advice, audio equipment comparisons/listening experiences, and great jazz recommendations I am getting.
David
|
@lalitk -
Much appreciated. I’ve done research and the Aqua La Diva M2 regularly shows up as a transport with the characteristics I appreciate. It has the CD Pro-8S CD transport, which is the same one in the Pro-Ject CD Box. Have you heard the original Aqua La Diva?
|
|
@charles1dad -
Glad to hear from you! When the Pro-Ject worked it was glorious. Glad you are enjoying yours. Reputation/reliability is definitely important.
BTW, your jazz recommendations, sometime back, have brought hours of great listening pleasure in the wharfy household.
Question-When you recommend the TEAC, what are you basing that on? Can you tell by looking at specs that the TEAC is going to be highly resolving, dead quiet with balanced placement of instruments in a believable 3 dimensional soundstage?
Jay's is on my radar, as is Audio Research CD6SE, even though that has a DAC.
Regards,
David
|
@lalitk -
@twoleftears-
Thanks for the recommendations! Have you heard either the TEAC or the Shanling?
|
@knock1 -
I went from the CXC, which is a decent transport, to the Pro-Ject and it was audio nirvana.
How would you compare/contrast the CXC and your Jay's Audio CDT2 MKIII? It's on my radar, for sure. As I mentioned I'm looking for highly resolving presentation, dead quiet background, balanced placement of instruments in a believable 3 dimensional soundstage.
Tekaudio is recommending the CDT3 MKIII, at almost 2x the price. Have you heard it?
Thanks!
|
@wturkey -
Sonic Frontiers is great. I still own a modified/parts upgraded Power 1.
|
|
@stuartk -
Thanks for your insights! I recall, from another thread, you briefly owned the Pro-Ject CD Box. How would you compare the sound quality, presentation etc.. between your Jay's CD transport and the Pro-Ject?
Thanks!
David
|
@charles1dad -
Yes, for old times sake! I have each of the CD's mentioned. Excellent, indeed. And wonderful recordings with intimacy best appreciated on a resolving audio system.
Have you heard these?
Curtis Counce-You get more bounce with Curtis Counce!-fantastic bass player, and the selections go between hard and cool 'bop. Terrific recording, too boot.
Dexter Gordon-Doin' Allright and One Flight Up
Lee Konitz with Warne Marsh
|
@thyname
Thanks for weighing in. Have been reading/comparing the two Jay's transports recommended here. Have you compared either to the Pro-Ject CD Box?
And what do you mean by "house sound"?
Thanks!
David
|
@bigkidz -
You are a wealth of information, and between you and Charles1dad helped me decide on purchasing the Pro-Ject CD Box. I was very fortunate that I was able to return the second CD Box for refund, so I do not have one to offer up.
The CEC transports are intriguing. But, what a pain finding info about them. I know Audio Union sells them, but their website wrt prices in not user friendly.
Do you have any further thoughts on the CEC TL2N or TL03.0?
Thanks!
David
|
@charles1dad -
I have TIDAL and Aurender has terrific synergy/sound quality. I like putting on the streamer when I want to listen/sample in depth musicians and/or types of music. There are times I find something I really like and then will buy the CD. Other times I listen to something and while I like it, it's not something I will own. TIDAL will also have music I can't get on CD.
Aurender also has an internet radio feature. I often listen to this jazz station out of San Diego.
https://www.jazz88.org/#:~:text=San%20Diego's%20Jazz%2088.3%20FM%20%2D%20KSDS
The sound quality from TIDAL/Aurender is very, very good. But, CDs played through a terrific transport/DAC combination always sounds better.
Have you heard Stan Getz and the Oscar Peterson Trio (1956)?
|
@8th-note
Your observations of Jay's CDT3 concur with what others on discussion boards, and a couple of trade magazine reviews have said. HDCD is a resolving format and can easily understand why having a cd player that decodes is a good thing.
Like Charles1Dad said, I am interested hearing your comparisons and contrasts.
|
|
@twoleftears
More good recommendations! TY
I researched and listened to both the Simaudio 260d and the Primare DD35.
The Sim has transport issues, which is what torpedoed my second Pro-Ject transport. I auditioned the Primare in my system and was underwhelmed.
Haven't heard the Audiolab 9000cdt. When looking for a cd transport to replace an ailing Arcam, I auditioned the 6000cdt and a Cambridge CXC. I chose the CXC.
|
@curiousjim
My DAC has I2S capability and that's something I'm factoring in. I had a Holo DAC and ran a Singxer bridge between my Aurender music server and the DAC. I noticed an improvement in sound quality.
|
@thyname
"You got a lot of recommendations here to build a short lists. I am so sorry to say at this point you have to listen, compare and contrast by yourself. "
I have a great deal of respect for the cumulative insights and knowledge of the forum members. If I'm going to pay thousands of dollars for a CD transport I can't audition, and possibly not return after purchase, I'm going to ask lots of questions.
You have provided a great deal of valuable info about Jay's CD transport. Did you have an opportunity to audition it in your system before purchase?
Regards,
David
|
@lalitk
Definitely is my experience on my audio equipment. You got me thinking with your response how CD remastering and reissues can make absolute statements like "always sound better of CD" anachronistic. For instance, how many "Kind of Blue" remastering reissues are there? I have two on CD, two on records. TIDAL has more than that. I'm sure I can find a reissue on TIDAL that sounds better than the $1.99 copy I purchased at CD World in the early 2000s.
So yes, point taken.
David
|
|
@lalitk -
Thanks for the tip! Just purchased. That's a terrific site, BTW. Lots of "candy."
David
|
@robshaw
I go back and forth about purchasing another RS2T. I love everything about the sound. And at the price, it's a bargain. The CD Box reminds me of a Fiat ("Fixing it always trouble") my neighbor once owned. When it was up and running it was a dream.
I agree TMR is a terrific dealer. I have had nothing but terrific experiences with them. They told me they wouldn't ship another RS2T until Pro-Ject/Sumiko addresses quality and customer service. I would like to add it CD Box back into my system, but at this rate I may be too old to fully appreciate what it has to offer 🤨
I've heard the Meitner MA-1 V2 DAC. It's very, very nice. I imagine you have terrific synergy. All best on your sonic journeys. I hope you find your "Holy Grail."
David
|
@facten
@charles1dad
Agreed with your quality issue assessments! I have to say as I'm doing research the CD Box still comes out on top wrt sound quality. I've actually wondered if I would be crazy trying to get another one. I've reached out to Pro-Ject North America to get a better idea if it's worth a third go-around.
David
|
@robshaw -
Many people think Jay's MK2-III transport sounds fantastic. I've done quite a bit of research and have considered getting one. I think the thing that makes me hesitate is the no returns policy. Charles1dad has an Abbas 3.2 se DAC and is very satisfied.
David
|
@robshaw
Wishing you best outcomes! Do let us know what's happening. TMR is a stand-up audio dealer, for sure.
|
My comments about wanting another CD Box have elicited some strongly-opinionated responses! I know it sounds crazy, the sound I'm after is what the CD Box delivers. I go back and forth.
With that said-I contacted Pro-Ject N.A. and they indicated the CD Box is being redesigned to eliminate the disc recognition issues and squeal noise that many users encountered. They don't know when their redesigned product will be back on the market. Meanwhile, I had a terrific conversation with an audio dealer who carries Pro-Ject. They said the failure rate of the CD Boxes since 2022 was 70%. Wow!!
So, what does that mean for me? I'm going to take some time to listen and learn. If anyone around Northern NJ has Jay's Audio transports, or CEC transports and is willing to invite me over for an audition, I'm happy to bring some snacks and spirits.
The TEAC mentioned at the beginning of this thread is available in October. Happy to seek one out for a demo. I'm also interested in ARC CD6SE because I have ARC upstream, and suspect there will be synergy with my rig. Will it best the CD Box? Only one way to find out.
|
@sealegs
I am going to audition the Simaudio 260DT. The fit and finish looks fabulous. As mentioned previously, I am concerned about the transport mechanism failures that others have reported.
David
|
I ordered the Schiit Urd transport. Schiit will let me return up to 15 days, so it’s a good place to start auditioning. If decide to keep it, the unit has up to a 5 year warranty (2 years on the drive mechanism).
Like the Pro-Ject CD Box, the Urd uses the Stream Unlimited CD PRO-8 with the integrated Blue Tiger servo. Another thing/feature I like about the Urd is it is optimized for USB, which is what my DAC manufacturer recommends (Musetec Audio (LKS Audio) MH-DA005 ES9038). And yes, both the DAC and Urd are UAC2 compatible. Additionally, I currently have my Aurender N200 running to the DAC via USB, and the Urd has an additional networking feature (Unison USB Hub) that will let me keep this connection.
As others have said, it ships,"sometime in October."
David
|
@liquidsound
Sounds like a winner. What DAC are you running?
David
|
@facten -
That's good info. TY! I'm auditioning the 260DT at the end of the week. My DAC has AES/EBU capability.
|
|
Transport search update-Will be auditioning an Audio Research CD6SE this coming weekend. While I have been specifically focusing on transports, the CD6SE has an onboard DAC utilizing PCM1792 dac chips (which are Delta Sigma), that can stream my Aurender N200. I It is a top loading CD player using a CDPro2R drive. I already have an ARC power amp and line stage and the ARC house sound leans towards neutrality with a bit of tube warmth.
|
@jl35
@ghdprentice
@charles1dad
I was up late last night, and early today, after adding the ARC CD6SE to my system. I’m impressed. Since I already have ARC (upstream/downstream?) the synergy is what you would expect with the ARC house sound-spacious, dimensional, for the most part organic. I listened to a variety of jazz, classical and rock CDs. Bass is very present, great midrange with extended highs. The CD6SE definitely presents a full and instrumentally defined sound palette. Vocals sound terrific, also.
Since the CD player’s DAC uses Delta Sigma PCM1792 dac chips, I was concerned that the highs and accented music notes would have digital glare, which is something I have encountered in lesser (cheaper) digital equipment. This isn’t noticeable with the CD6SE. I think because of the signal tubes in the ARC linestage, and power/signal tubes in the ARC power amp.
So, how does it compare with the Pro-Ject CD Box RS2T? While not using the same DAC, both units share a 3D palpability and realism. I think the Pro-Ject (sadly RIP) has greater PRAT and transparency, while the CD6SE projects a weightier presentation. But, it’s only a matter of degrees, and for me, both are equally satisfying. Not to get too esoteric with regards to degrees of realism, but here it goes-The Pro-Ject presents music like a Vermeer painting and the CD6SE is closer to John Singer Sargent.
Additionally, something I like about the CD6SE is that it has a terrific on-board DAC. What’s funny in a way is how the plethora of really good DACs have steered me away from onboard DAC/transport players. I am able to run my Aurender music server, via USB, through the DAC without losing any of the resolution and clarity I had with the Musetec MH-DA005 Sabre chip set DAC.
David
|
@charles1dad
Vermeer paintings and Pro-Ject CD Box Rs2T analogy (YMMV)
https://www.khm.at/en/objectdb/detail/2574/
John Singer Sargent and CD6SE analogy (YMMV)
https://collections.mfa.org/objects/31782
I'm giving the TEAC 701 a listen when it ships to one of my local audio shops. I'm going to listen to a Denon dcd-a110 110th anniversary edition sacd at the beginning of the week. The URD is on order, with an opportunity to return if I don't want it. WRT, Jay's CD transports and CEC-This will be difficult because they are purchase with no return option. With that said, I'm really liking the CD6SE.
BTW-Art Blakey and his classic Jazz Messengers, with Lee Morgan and Sonny Rollins sounds fantastic through the CD6SE.
David
|
@charles1dad
I would agree with your assessments of Vermeer and Sargent. You have a good eye!
I agree about Lee Morgan. I always "liked" him. Sidewinder was one of my first jazz purchases. And then one afternoon I was listening to Art Blakey & The Jazz Messengers-First Flight to Tokyo: The Lost 1961 Recordings on an Art Blakey birthday celebration radio broadcast (WKCR). I was blown away by the trumpeter-Lee Morgan. Deeper listening helped, me really appreciate his expressive lyricism. "Here's Lee Morgan" is a terrific CD. Morgan as a 21 year old is playing with Morgan with Clifford Jordan, Wynton Kelly, Paul Chambers and Art Blakey.
|
@jetter
Good question. I should check as I am considering purchasing the CD player.
@ghdprentice
I can see that. The DAC on the CD 6SE is terrific. I haven't made the effort, yet, to listen to HI REZ. I have TIDAL, which has MQA. People on A' Gon boards regularly have back and forths about the superiority of Qobuz and TIDAL.
|
@charles1dad
I did not know that Morgan and McLean collaborated. Looking into this I saw that at some point both played with Art Blakey. What do you recommend?
|
@jetter
Both you and ghdprentice raise an interesting point. To many people playing a CD is an archaic way to listen to music. There are multiple reasons. Consequently, the technology that makes the CD listening experience sublime, i.e the ability of getting a replacement Phillips CD drive is no longer a necessity for the majority of music enthusiasts, and is a real concern and consideration.
If I was much younger (I'm 66 and recently retired!!), I'm not sure CDs would be the way I like listening to music. My thirty year old son lovingly chides me because of the money I spend on my hobby and the physical space needed to enjoy it. His media of choice is his iphone and Apple Music.
I was a BIG analog person and only when my turntables stopped working, were hard to repair, and records were harder to buy, did I grudgingly buy my first CD player--a SONY multi-disk. Now, I like CDs for their physical convenience-storage and ease of handling, sound quality, and the availability of satisfying CD players and transports.
With that said, technology being what it is, it's not hard to accept (after a Manhattan, or two) that at some point I could be streaming on a regular basis. The sound quality via Hi REZ is improving, the huge music catalogs available, and the excellent DACs and streamers available point to a future where CDs and transports could be fewer and far between. Space considerations also factor into this. Looking to downsize, one of the first questions I ask is if the house I'm looking at has a something I can turn into a listening room. Until then, or not, I'm going to really, really enjoy my CDs.
|
@pindac
Great comments on the two paintings--I’m of the school that you can’t see or hear what’s not there. In the case of music, if it is there you want the best resolving equipment to hear it.
@charles1dad
Agree about comparisons between the TEAC, RS2T and CD6SE. The review posted by Pindac is so thorough, I’m going to make sure I DON’T read it before listening to transport.
I still have the CD6SE (On loan from a friend). I’m really impressed with the air between and around instruments. Listening to John Coltrane’s solos on "Blue in Green" from Kind of Blue, the CD6SE allows you to hear the resonance/echo as he plays.
David
|
@jaymark -
Ugh! I feel your pain. Any chance you can get refund/credit for your purchases?
|
FWIW-Enjoying the ARC CD6SE loaner quite a bit. Will audition the TEAC and URD as they become available.
Meanwhile, I've been sending emails to Pro-Ject's parent company, Audiotuning, asking how the CD Box re-design is going. If anyone else is interested in emailing them-
marketing@audiotuning.at,
service@audiotuning.at,
office@audiotuning.at |
|
