Qobuz dropping rights to my favorites. A pox on their house.

I have tons of CDs and CDRs, many dating back to the dawn of the format. I have not had a single one “rot”. For those of you having deteriorating CDs, what are you cleaning them with? Sulfuric Acid?

Best to have your music stored on something physical, whether a HD, CD, lp. Then when the streaming services try to screw the Artists out of more royalties and drop their music you are covered.

Today I noticed a number of songs were missing from a playlist I created. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason for it, other songs from the same albums are still in the playlist. 

Using the search function, I found the identical songs in Qobuz and replaced them. It doesn't make sense, I've had entire albums disappear possibly due to licensing issues. Also when an album has been remastered.

I purchase music on Qobuz from loved artist and will store it on an external drive, that way the artist will get the most out of it. As for albums disappearing, I notice it when a song get skipped while on a playlist. This has been happening for more than a year now and when I don't find the album again after few weeks,  I'll buy it in hi res and will have it for ever. Spotify is awesome too discover, Qobuz to listen and eventually buy. Amazon is a no go, same for Apple music, just from personal preference. 

I'm surprised this doesn't get talked about more often.  With streaming, your at the mercy of that service changing that "albums" provenance anytime they wish and you may never be the wiser.  it's unfortunate.  It may be removed altogether or with a different mastering version.  It doesn't happen that often, but it still sucks.  Actually happened today ironically.

I'm still a big advocate to owning music and curating your local library for many reasons.  Streaming isn't going away, and I subscribe to Qobuz (using it inside of roon w/ HQP) but I'll never do away with my local lib and going 100% streaming and getting rid of ones local lib makes no sense.  I still buy/keep adding to my local lib.

It's happened a few times, but with so much content I just move on to new favorites!

Fascinating @tonywinga . What a cool field trip. Sony also made black discs for the Play Statiion. Always wondered why, and how they worked?

Expect lots more catalog deletions at all the streaming services. Audio services try to have everything. Not so with video streaming companies. Too expensive. 

Thanks,

aldnorab

I first noticed the disappearing albums in the Amazon Music app and it's been quite disappointing.  Didn't know the same would happen in Qobuz so thanks for the heads up.  I've just not seen it yet since I joined about four months ago.

Qobuz still doesn't have the ability to organise Favorite Albums. Last album saved is displayed on top. It's faster to search for an album than to scroll through Favorites.

Does anybody know a workaround? Using BluOs with native app on an Android.

@wsrrsw Thank you, I must have missed that little feature. Will give it a whirl later, that'll be great to know for building playlists and something I wish I knew about sooner!

My brother was an engineer at the Sony CD plant.  I got a tour from him back in the early 90s.  Fascinating.  He told me CDs have a min design life of 15 years.  They are not considered archival.  The polycarbonate discs have the pits molded in them.  That’s the music information.  The next step is sputtering a layer of Aluminum just a few atoms thick onto the disc.  A clear coating is added to protect the Aluminum and the label printed on.  I could imagine that a disc could be restored if the Aluminum coating could be removed without damaging the surface of the polycarbonate disc and reapplying the Aluminum coating.  It would have to be a very valuable disc to go to all that trouble.

Just for fun that day, I brought home an uncoated disc.  It was simply a clear CD with the pits molded into it.  I tried it in my CD player.  It would not play.  No surprise, just curious.

@christianb5s4

Below is the web version or you can do the same using the Native app using the three dots (use edit tracks) in the top right..... but using shell softare to run Qobuz like Roon on Lumin (the ones I use) it can’t be done. Not sure about others like BlueSound letting you edit in Qobuz. I don’t make playlists in Roon but that can be done.

@christianb5s4 

Sounds good. 
Happy listening !

@ronboco I'll have to play around with the native app more. I use the Lumin app for streaming, but for building playlists and organization I use the Qobuz app itself. Just haven't figured out how to change the order of an existing playlist.

I'll take a look and share if I find anything.

Streaming is good for discovery, and little else. It is a bad deal for artists, a good deal for record companies, and a great deal for consumers. The record labels will "fix" the consumer problem. They have never looked after their customers, and aren't about to now. They'll probably wait for physical media and download stores to dwindle further before taking action. Then they will control your music collection. They love control. Think not, look at how they treat artists, their business partners. I feel sorry for people that don't own copies of their music collection. 

Thanks,

aldnorab 

@christianb5s4 

I believe you have to go into the Qobuz app to do any modifying. I’m using BluOS and the only thing I can do is save to favorites. Unless I just don’t know how to do it. I would love to be able to delete, modify etc right in the BluOS app. 

I noticed I have lost parts of my Qobuz playlist and yes it does

piss me off. But if the people at Qobuz go under it is not good 

for anyone. So keep a stiff upper lip!!

@wsrrsw I might just be a noob, but how are you able to drag and organize a Playlist on Qobuz? On the native app?

@mlsstl 😂😂😂

I have the same search problems with my collection back when I had CDs and LPs -- the wife would listen to something and then put it back in a different spot....

Yeah I know. Totally hardship. Requires a lot of minutes of your precious time. Bummer 

No reason to freak out. Read what @wsrrsw wrote above. That’s exactly what’s happening. Don’t panic. Relax. Put some work on it:

 

I search for the "missing" track and almost always find it and back in it goes. Rarely is it gone forever. 

This has happened to me quite a few times. An album or an entire catalogue goes missing, then returns weeks later with the remastered versions. And they don't return to Favorites. I'll come across the newly added versions while searching for music.

OP:

No reason to freak out. Read what @wsrrsw wrote above. That’s exactly what’s happening. Don’t panic. Relax. Put some work on it:

I search for the "missing" track and almost always find it and back in it goes. Rarely is it gone forever. 

Qobuz just had a price increase.If anything,they should be adding music,not subtracting.

I wrote to Qobuz and asked why the drops of tracks that are there. Will post if and  what I hear back. If it's a data base problem I would expect mum behavior as that's a damning under the hood problem. They are a great company so I'm moderately hopeful. (How's that for both sides of my pie hole?)

Exactly why streaming is rightfully first class source for both sound quality and convenience, AND for discovering music to purchase or download, streaming can cover every possible need. Although I use streams almost exclusively as my favored source, if I really like something that much I still on rare occasion purchase cd for ripping or, vinyl for my vinyl setup. One can have their cake and eat it too!

I won't tell you to do what I do, but....if I really really love a recording that much, I will see if the LP is available.  Not only do you get the recording for life, but a true collectors album as well.  Most of my friends that come to listen invariably ask for something on vinyl,so that's good too.

.....And from the Web.....

People also ask

How do I contact Qobuz?

Any request must include the Customer's surname, first name, e-mail address and identifier (user ID), must then be sent by e-mail to support@qobuz.com, or by post to: XANDRIE SA legal department, 45 rue de Delizy, 93692 Pantin CEDEX.

@kletter1mann Yup.

I make playlists (also listen to albums) and sometimes a track becomes greyed out/unavaible. I search for the "missing" track and almost always find it and back in it goes. Rarely is it gone forever. I’m not a coder nor do I play one on TV but I suspect this is a Qobuz database problem? It’s a time suck to get the replacement file and drag it back to where it was.

Missing

Replaced

@kletter1mann The same culling happens on Amazon/Prime Music including the most expensive HD Family plan that I switched to from Tidal. And it can be very frustrating when tracks suddenly disappear from custom playlists. Not only that, but on AmazonMusic, they will also change-up the quality offering... Let's say you added the UHD (best sound quality version) to a playlist, then they change the SQ to HD - this causes the UHD version to become unavailable. So the only way to get it back is the search for it again and add it back to the playlist in the lower quality.

The other gripe I have with Amazon Music is when you buy the digital music, it is MP3 - unless you buy the physical CD and rip it when it arrives - thats lame.

My point is Amazon is no better than the rest in this regard - we might have thought the libraries would be ever-increasing, but this is not the case. Instead, they are ever changing, and without warning become unavailable or downgraded. I've seen tracks disappear, then return again a couple weeks later - but usually not.

@mspot has it right... use streaming services for discovery, then buy what you want to keep.

@kletter1mann "Google, there’s a lot of info out there"

Yes there are some folks who have noted issues with early 80s CDs produced by a certain mfg in the UK where the outer edge turned bronze. There are plenty of folks voice no issue. There are people who claim the life span of CDs is 20 years there are others that it’s 100-500 years. That said, do what’s best for you which is all that ultimately matters.  And, my apologies as my first post should have been worded in a different tone😀

@mlsstl   Sorry, brain fart.  I'm absolutely NOT getting rid of what's on the server.  To the contrary, it will only grow.  It's a beast: an enterprise-grade unit running a 10Tb RAID 10 array with auto backup.  Next step is ripping CD's to it before they  all rot.

@kletter1mann -- "I've been slowly culling my CD's, LP's and server library with the assumption that streaming service libraries would grow, not shrink."

I can understand getting rid of CDs and LPs for reasons of the physical space they take up, but why in the world would you get rid of material on a server? I've got my local music on a 4TB 2.5" USB drive that isn't much bigger than a pack of playing cards. I've also got two backups which are stored in drawers.

Copyright fights have been an ongoing issue in the music, TV, film and publishing industries for decades and decades. Those issues are not going away anytime soon.  I use Qobuz and enjoy it, but if I find an album I really don't want to live without, I either download it to my local server or get a CD copy and transfer that to my server.  I use LMS as my playback server and it integrates my local collection with Qobuz seemlessly.

It does happen, seems like I've always been able find another release by same artist that contains the songs from deleted release.

I've wondered why this happens, doubt it's artist or label caused since you can find the replacements. And hey, they've been doing this with physical media from the get go, nothing new here.

Sometimes when this happens, I find that a newer release of the same album has become available. It's worth checking.

Lesson is don't just "favorite.". If you "really" like it, acquire it. Store a copy in the cloud and then they can't "take it away."

"I guess I’ll get busy ripping CDs before they disintegrate. I’ve noticed that it’s already started."

Really, disintegrating in what way? Have CDs since the outset and not a one is "disintegrating," and all play fine.

I was under the impression that Qobuz paid artist more than other services.  

@mspot 

Thanks for unformatting the original post.

Anyway, I'm all for artists not getting screwed.  I'd pay more for service that seemed more sustainable.  I'd also pay more for a service that devised a means for being more stable.  But what will change immediately is my strategy of minimizing physical media.  I had hoped that high rez streaming would make that possible, but that just isn't the case.  Along the same lines I guess I'll get busy ripping CDs before they disintegrate.  I've noticed that it's already started.

@mspot +2

  Before I started streaming I had read many articles cautioning that the problem of deletions could be significant.  I also use streaming primarily to explore new releases that I previously would have purchased and played perhaps twice.  I burn my CDs to a NAS but am only discarding the ones that I truly don’t rate very highly.

  I also have swung from being an Apple Fan to disliking the company that they have become.  However I dropped Qobuz for Apple Music because my wife really wanted it and it was silly to have both.  Apple has a much more extensive catalog and doesn’t seem as deletion prone as Qobuz.  And the SQ is pretty good

I hope this happens more and more as artists realize how they're getting screwed by streaming and pull their stuff.

I too have had this happen, with choices I played as recently a day or two earlier and then pulled back up from my history to find they are no longer available.  I pay for both Tidal and Qobuz but if the available selections start to dwindle, I will seriously look at dropping whichever service is not serving my needs and investigating other options.  Any suggestions?

@mspot 

Very well stated and thoughtful perspective.

Charles 

@kletter1mann, I copied and pasted your post, and it removed some characters that caused weird formatting:

So, I favorite something on Qobuz, come back a few months later and SHAZAM, it's gone. "The rights holders have not made this content available to listen." This seems to be a growing problem for me and I doubt I';m the only one. WTF?? To add insult to injury, I take a look at Amazon (to which I do not subscribe) and there it is.

Qobuz is the only paid service I use. Tidal has too much overlap to be worth it and I find MQA dubious anyway. Amazon's march towards world domination is troubling and I just plain don't like Apple stuff. But my partner uses AppleMusic (I think) and reports similar annoyances.

This leaves me both perplexed and annoyed. I've been slowly culling my CD's, LP's and server library with the assumption that streaming service libraries would grow, not shrink. It's also in keeping with my wish to release my attachments to mere things. I'm coming to feel that this may be a grave error - in the realm of music what we don't physically possess, be it CD, an LP, BR disk or a data file, we never really possessed at all. I'm not content to live off memories of how much I once enjoyed hearing something. I might want to hear it again! So, as far as web/streaming content goes I'm moving back to downloading stuff so it can't be arbitrarily taken away from me.

Anybody else mad as hell and not gonna take it anymore? Bah, humbug! And Happy New Year

You have valid concerns, and some of my favorited albums have also been removed from Qobuz and Tidal. Some labels even removed their entire catalog from streaming. My attitude is that you can do both streaming and purchase, and one doesn't preclude the other.

I will always subscribe to streaming because it is valuable to me for music discovery and having access to an almost unlimited library. There is a lot of music I want to explore but have no desire to purchase and own forever. If something I love disappears from streaming, I can still have it by purchasing it separately.

I lived through the LP and CD era when there was a lot of music I could only hear by purchasing the album. Many purchases ended up being played only one time, because the purpose was exploration. By comparison, streaming is an absolute bargain, and for me it is a small ongoing expense that I don't mind paying for.

It is upsetting when it feels like something was taken away from you. However, if you imagine that if you had begun subscribing to the service a little later, it wouldn't have been there to begin with.

I'll try again shortly.....

What?