Jaw Dropping Improvement?

lg1 ... just to give us some needed context, can you tell us about the rest of your system.   With the right system something like the Chord Qutest can be an absolute game changer.  But that being said, given the rest of your system, is a DAC the best place to employ your next x number of dollars?  So specifically, what are you using for amp and speakers.  And I'd still recommend spending some time with the Node 2i for a little while before jumping the gun on the next dollar spend for your system.

Thanks, Jazzman.  I’m running the Node 2i into a PrimaLuna Prologue Classic integrated w/stock preamp section tubes and Gold Lion KT77 power tubes out to JBL L 65s.  Speaker cables are Home Depot “thick”...lol...and just switched the supplied interconnects from the Node > integrated out for a pair of Belkin ones from the pile of wires in the garage that have accumulated over the decades...slight but noticeable improvement.  Musical tastes are all over the map but lately lately listening to a ton of jazz and 70s James Taylor on Tidal...

http://tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/LKS_Mods.html

I have had this dac and Ric's mods for three years and am very happy with it.

lg1 ... in my opinion with your system something on the order of the Chord Qutest would be most appropriate and a logical next step.
FWIW I've had a Chord Qutest in my main rig since March of 2019 and absolutely love it, and had it fed by a Node 2i before moving on to a Roon Nucleus.  The Node 2i/Qutest combo makes for a lovely combination.

First of all, I would just listen to your Bluesound for a couple of months, break it in and see what it’s all about. Whether an outboard dac will sound better to you depends on the resolving power of your system and what musical traits you value. IMO, the better digital products may have a truer musical tone on acoustic instruments with less of the feeling that your music is being electronically reproduced. This may or may not be important to you. A lot of products offer a return policy, so you can try and hear for yourself whether you value the difference. Whether it is subtle or "jaw-dropping" will depend only on your own ears. But do get used to what you have before moving on. Really.

I started with the blue sound. Since then I’ve had mcintosh, mytek, lumin d2 and ps audio. They all sound the same

I have the chord qutest as well. Fantastic dac. Glad to see so many others enjoy it like I do. Great with my lumin streamer. 

The TEAC NT-505 is a major improvement over the Bluesound and under $2k. I'm not sure I would call it "jaw-dropping" though.

Gotta toot my MHDT Orchid. Tubed. Subtle change from a Wyred DAC. But hey better, not jaw dropping vs Node. Both take Node to a different level though for me.

Bifrost multibit definitely an improvement. I have been using it since sometime. Very happy.

+1 on the Orchid with the Node.
If you plan on keeping the Node, get a power cord from Cullen Cables.

I have found pretty much every DAC to an improvement over the Bluesound, but agree that it may not be jaw dropping, and agree that trying the Bluesound for a few months is a good way to go.

@lg1

Being a Primaluna owner let me first say you should experiment with the two center 12AU7's of your intergrated and quality speaker cables first. 
An external DAC in my opinion is where I would go with your system after those two changes.

Good advice to listen for couple months; B sound has a lot of detractors here that are louder than adherents.  

Should you then want to make a move check out audiosciencereview.com and eyeball the Gustav X16:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/gustard-x16-balanced-mqa-dac-review.17419...

Mytek Liberty DAC for $1K adds a noticeably sharper focus to the analog out from Node2i in my system...not jaw dropping to me, but it also preserves the MQA advantage.  Since the Mytek has a linear PS and Node an SMPS, that may account for my improvement as much as the DAC chip.  You can upgrade the Node itself to LPS, for example:
https://pd-cf.com/product/bluesound-node-2-2i-upgrade-kit-low-noise-psu-interface-smpsu/
That;s a budget friendly place to start.

If I were in your position, I would audition a Benchmark DAC3.  They have several models that include headphone, gain control etc..  They also have a 30 day trial period.  

I purchase a Bluesound Node 2i and the dealer talked me into buying a Project S2 DAC.  When I got it home, I thought it sounded much better when playing the Bluesound alone.  I don't care what people say, but I think MQA sounds great and if you add a DAC the Bluesound will no longer unfold MQA on Tidal.  I also thought when adding the DAC it sounded thin.  There was much better bass with the Bluesound and I thought there was plenty of detail.  This said, I would not recommend adding a DAC.  Unless a $3,000 DAC sounds much better.  

I forgot to mention.  I did a blind test at the dealer with and without the DAC and I picked the Bluesound every time without the DAC.  I should have gone with what I heard and not purchased the DAC.  Maybe it was the cheap DAC I purchased.  Another dealer suggested buying a BelCanto streamer.  He said sound quality was much better than the Bluesound for twice the price.  I would have been nice to be able a number of DAC combinations along with more expensive streamers to make the right choice.

I run my Node 2i through the Neko Audio D100 MK II (into a Belles Aria integrated amp). The friend who sold it to me to replace the Chord 2Qute said this would pair beautifully with the Belles, and he was right. It's perfect for the streamer.

You can grab a new one for $1500, though Wesley Miaw, its designer/builder and a heck of a gentleman, puts them on sale from time to time for a grand.

It just so happens that the bluesound dac is bad, to my ears at least. If you can find a used qutest, you'll have much better sound. Plenty of other choices though. 

Hello,
I have tested quite a few DACs with the BlueSound Node 2i. The DAC inside is ok and adequate, but not ideal. The Cambridge was good but light on the treble. The Teac mentioned above was very good. It’s right below 2k and has the streamer built in. The Mytek Liberty is very good as long as you add the SBooster power supply. In the end the jaw dropping is probably going to happen depending on the money spent. To start I really believe in a stout power supply. That’s going to give you the weight and bloom. Next is chip based or R2R or both. Last is MQA ready. The Mytek Liberty does MQA. Hopefully I will be testing out the M2Tech young DAC. It is $2400 so I hope it’s unbelievable for that money. Besides the Liberty the Denifrips Pontus is really good at $1700. Plus it has twice the resisters as the Ares and two isolated transformers. 

I had a Mytek Liberty for a while. It sounded better than the Node 2, but was a little too "analytical" for my tastes. 

Ayre Codex-improved bass and larger soundstage. On the used market you can get one for under 1K. 

Denafrips Aeries is superb for under a grand

@lg1 

to your initial post... you should specify what type of sonic improvements you are seeking

the notion of 'jaw dropping' is relative and depends on where you are coming from and what you want to change

your system is pretty good but the jbl's are not the most resolving speakers, though they sound very nice, easy to listen to... so once again, hard to calibrate what will be 'jaw dropping' to you...

The problem is what constitutes "jaw dropping"?  Having read audio magazines and forums for decades, what it takes to make someone's jaw drop can vary considerably from person to person.  

Since you seem to be budget conscious, here are two considerations. The Topping E-30 is quite the buy for $130. You can try one from Amazon and return it for a full refund if your jaw doesn't drop. Next up the line is a Schiit Bifrost for $700 -- it is a full multibit (R2R) DAC. Schiit gives a 2 week trial but does charge 5% if you return it.  I have both DACs and the Topping is a great buy at its price but the Bifrost is definitely better in my book. And, there are plenty of other options out there for as much money as you want to throw at the issue.

Thanks, jjss49...good points for me to contemplate!

I’d like the music I listen to to be as clear and as in-focus as possible within the capabilities of my integrated amp and speakers.  If I can compare to optics, I want to be looking at things through an immaculately cleaned and top-of-the-line Zeiss lens!  However,......I want this hyper-focus to reveal “euphonic” 95 times out of 100 and “clinical” on only the five remaining occasions.  If a given singer is sounding overly sibilant via Tidal, I want to be confident it’s an inferior recording and not artifacts originating at a weak link in my system-chain.  All that considered, I want lower-frequency “punch” and a certain, undefinable “energy emanating from the speakers wall” to induce the same smile on my face I had two weeks ago when I got the Node 2i hooked up and playing....that sense of “Yeah......this component purchase was a gamble that sure paid off.”...but taken to the “final frontier” within the parameters of my Node2i>integrated amp >speakers.

Might be chasing phantoms here but one may as well aim high!

@lg1

your add’l comments are helpful

i would suggest you try a chord dac... a qutest or a 2qute... reasons being:

- your system is only moderately revealing in the midrange and treble but has good bass response
- the onboard dac in the node 2i is voiced to sound innocuous... meaning it is smoothed over at the expense of detail, clarity, transient response, and incisiveness - ultimately it is a lens that is cloudy and substantially dulls the image of the real thing
- the chords (along with the rme-adi2 and better toppings) have great clarity, speed, slam and ’air’ in their sound character
- the chords are somewhat better than the rme and topping d90 in they have more subtlety and refinement while providing great clarity, lend more ambient 'air', and throw a more well defined, larger stereo image

qutest used is $1300-1400, 2qute is $800 -- both are excellent, and i would venture to say if you keep your current system with the jbl’s, you will not hear much (or any) difference between the two... but the improvement will be significant and immediately noticeable going from the dac of the node 2i -- whether it is 'jaw dropping' you will have to tell us :)

good luck

IMHO...With your system and you wanting to stay under $2000.00 for a streamer nothing you can buy will give you a jaw dropping impact.

You can improve the Bluesound by swapping out the stock PSU with: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bluesound-NODE-2-2i-upgrade-low-noise-PSU-interface/324146967047?hash=item4...
Then power it with a good 5V linear power supply.

Also upgrading your Ethernet chain makes a huge improvement such as a Gigafoil V4 (powered with a 5V LPS) and Network Acoustics ENO with a high quality Ethernet cable. 

If you decide to go with an external DAC and use coax the iFi SPDIF Purifier 2 (powered with a 5V LPS) also makes a nice improvement. 

Everything matters when it comes to your digital front end. 
-Alex

Using the Bluesound Node 2i with native DAC - not great.  Added Cambridge Audio DAC Magic - much better soundstage and like the overall presentation better.  Had been using a CCA and DAC and honestly am not seeing a whole world of improvement with the bluesound.  I like the convenience and the Aptx and the CCA will be obsolete in the near future but...  I hear things with CCA on recordings that seem recessed on Node 2i.  Am hoping that unit breaks in a bit and that I don't have to sink more funds into the rabbit hole but suspect that won't be the case.  

Hello,
Another idea or upgrade is the streamer it’s self. Upgrading the whole streamer/DAC itself. The Teac TN-505 all in one smokes the BlueSound. Not because Blue sound is bad. I added a BlueSound Node 2i and I really appreciate it for what it is. A $550 piece that is worth $1000. The Teac will set you back $1999 but the streamer and the DAC are on another level. Teac uses Lumin tech which is on the next level above Teac. If you are interested in Lumin streamers the shop I use will hardwire an SBooster to give you ultimate streamer/DAC.  You can sell the BlueSound since it is the most popular HiRez  streamer out there. Yes, a little over budget once you sell the BlueSound. Lets not try to turn you Honda Civic into an Acura NSX. Save up, sell the Honda, buy the NSX. No need to worry about a good cable from the DAC to streamer because it’s all built in the Teac TN-505. It’s also a better headphone amp. If you have a local store demo it. You will be jaw dropping wowed. If you are in the Chicagoland area I use Holm Audio. I wish all of us would recommend our local brick and mortar stores. We need to keep these places alive. Otherwise you can order all your stuff on Amzn in the future. Just a concerned patron. https://holmaudio.com/

@lg1 - I simply added GREAT cables to my Bluesound Node 2i - granted, the cables cost more than the Node 2i, but I didn’t introduce yet another device with all of its associated noisy cables into the mix

The Bluesound has a great DAC and an excellent analogue stage - trouble is - it is so good that if there is any noise in the cables it will process that noise as it does the music. Get rid of that noise and it treats you to

• stunning clarity and details
• an expansive and airy image
• amazing dynamics
• a deep textured bass (not boomy)

These are the cables...
My Audio Alchemy (image99.net)

If you are not into DIY then there are some members here on Audiogon that will build them for you.

Take a look at this thread to read their impressions of these cables
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/duelund-conversion-to-diy-helix-geometry-cabling

Each time we add a component into the chain we are simply adding to a complex noise problem - I like to keep things simple - limit the components and and get rid of the noise :-)

Regards - Steve

I own both the Node 2i (not currently in use) and a more expensive DAC/streamer (the Matrix Element X).  FWIW, these 2 DACs have shown up at nearly opposite ends of the ASR measurements, Matrix near the top and Bluesound near the bottom.
vhttps://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-matrix-audio-e...
(you may be able to find more recent versions of this chart)

I would not attribute a "jaw dropping" SQ difference to the DACs, per se.
However, I do experience a jaw-dropping SQ difference by adding BACCH4Mac software processing to my system.  The Intro version costs $980, plus the cost of a Mac computer to run it on (which I already owned).  I don't think there is any way to feed BACCH4Mac output into a Node 2i because you'd need a USB connection (which the Matrix Element X does support).

BACCH4Mac manipulates the audio signal in the time domain, so it isn't quite like room correction software.  It purports to minimize/eliminate crosstalk.  The effect isn't as dramatic on all recordings, but on some, it can rather dramatically widen/deepen/heighten the perceived soundstage.  For example, a performer who seemed to be near your left speaker without BACCH might seem to be performing as much as several feet away from the same speaker with BACCH.  The effect, I think, is likely to be much more dramatic than the effect of any new cable or DAC chip. 

When you can afford it try a Lumin U2 Mini with a Denafrips R-2R DAC. They pair well together and it is a night and day difference (maybe not jaw dropping).

+1 for a pre-owned Ayre Codex. But here is an interesting question. At your age I discovered I suffered from hearing loss at frequencies above 3k Hz. It is a common issue.  Have you any suspicion that it may be the case for you? If so, a visit to a good audiologist and, if necessary, a quality hearing aid could be a better use of your funds. 

I am sure the cheap ProJect S2 DAC I added to my Bluesound Node 2i might have been the problem.  I have heard the Cuttest is much better.  What would I hear with a more expensive DAC that would sound better than the Bluesound played by itself?  I like hearing detail especially the highs and bass.  However, my two REL S2 SHO's subs fill in the bass nicely.  I for some reason think I like MQA, but is it like the Emperors New Cloths am I convincing myself it sounds better?  Adding a DAC is supposed to stop the complete unfold of MQA.  I wonder what others hear when they play MQA?  

It’s certainly worthwhile experimenting with DACs to put on the end of your Bluesound - I find that if the rest of the system is balanced with a good pair of revealing speakers (mine are Role Audio Enterprise I highly recommend these!) - then an upgrade in your digital upstream makes a very worthwhile difference.
I am partial to a good R-2R DAC in my experiences so far, although many have jumped onto the Chord bandwagon. Digital can more incisive and impactful without being harsh when you get it right.
The streamer does make a difference too - I have had the Bluesound Node 2i in my system before - but preferred the sound of an Auralic Mini (as a transport) but it did have the advantage of Auralic's Linear PSU - however I do agree that the Node has a better GUI.

Teac NT-505, SMSL M400, Topping d90...all sound better than Bluesound Node, which can be used as a streaming device if desired...

i have told this story before. i had a PreSonus Audiobox USB DAC (XLR outputs) that cost me a whopping 79 bucks including shipping. I was sure that I was missing something. $200 later with a SMSL SU8, I cannot hear a bloody difference. I would like to try the TEAC NT-505 when I get 2000 bucks to burn on something else I won't hear a difference from...

@sameyers
1try some ribbon tweeters. i think everyone loses HF hearing response

Happy Node2i user here. Lots of good notes in this discussion but I would highly recommend you insure that you’ve heard everything it can do. I was thinking about Chord and Shiit and all those but I wanted to give the Node2i a fighting chance. This thing is really good if you get rid of all the noise in your wiring.
1) Use Ethernet not WiFi and minimum AQ cables to start.
2) Upgrade the C7 cables on the Node2i, your router and anything else with a C7.3) Consider an Ethernet hub with re-clocking ability. THEN listen for 3 months and start shopping for an upgrade.

good call on the reclocker.. i use the Wyred4Sound unit

i run the node 2i, very familiar with reclockers, which can be transformative of some jittery transports/streamers... but i did not feel the rca spdif output of the node 2i needed it if one uses a good digital cable