Qln, Joseph Audio, Audiovector, Marten, or Canton...?

@prof -- thanks for the reply!  Your original research thread and your decision actually came up on my call with Jeff and he mentioned that you were going for the upgrade. Small world indeed. 

@thr1961 

That's great to hear!  I look forward to your report on your listening!

I'm sending my original Perspectives out this week for the graphene upgrade.

I've never heard anyone with a bad word to say about the Perspectives. 

But of course there is lots of competition.   You can get bigger speakers, bigger sound or other qualities.  I think the thing with the Joseph speakers is that they do have a particular sound - accurate, yet so smooth - and if it grabs you it grabs you, and one is willing to give up other attributes you might get in other speakers.  Though another thing going for the Perspectives is they are well balanced in their properties so it's not like "oh, I have to put up with this aspect, which sucks..."

Best of luck!

Quick update from my search: I spent an hour on the phone with Jeff Joseph and my local dealer talking about both the Perspectives and the Pearls. I had previously shared details on my other gear and the type of music I favor. We actually spent a fair amount of time going over photos of my room and some options for getting the best out of either model. I will be listening to the Perspectives later this week and am waiting to hear about options for hearing the Pearls. 
 

All in all, this has been a positive experience thus far. More details after my first listen. 

I have been using FinkTeam KIM speakers for about a year now, and they are <$15k and superb. Note that they are technically stand-mount, but are affixed to the integral stands at the factory. FWIW I did audition the Martin Parker Duo (a step up from the Oscar), and preferred the KIMs.

Anyone interested in details should check out this Martin Colloms review (in pdf format):

Colloms FinkTeam KIM

Another speaker line that is expensive but not talked about much (at least at a'gon) iis Borresen Their standmount model called the Borresen 01 retails for over $30K with stands. I don't know who would pay this kind of money for a standmount but I guess there are folks who are buying it. It does look pretty slick with the stands I must admit.

+1 @prof  They seem to have been designed to deliver maximum output and dynamic impact THX style, but I’ve not seen a review where they’re compared to speakers that can reproduce real music versus other high-end speakers.  Not saying they don’t, just ain’t seen it yet — but I’m open.  And yeah the name sucks, and the per speaker pricing thing just pisses me off, but that’s maybe just me.  

I would really like to hear the Perlisten speakers (terrible name!)

I actually inquired about their smaller stand mounted s5m speakers and was frankly shocked at the price:  $18,500 CAD !!! (pre-tax)

Waaay to rich for my blood, especially for a stand mounted speaker from a new company.  (And also, very annoyingly, Perlisten speaker prices are often given as "price per speaker" which is rarely obvious.  That's one reason I actually inquired about the Perlisten speakers because they seemed almost affordable.  Then I was told "no that's the price per individual speaker, not the pair." 

Seriously who-T-F prices tower speakers "per speaker" instead of per pair????

At the risk of taking this discussion even further off topic, I am fairly sure that there are 3 of us from Massachusetts and are all referring to the same JA dealer. After a bit of digging, I actually received an email from Jeff Joseph himself referring me to the local dealer and providing some additional details etc. 

I think the point here is that we all have choices in terms of what gear we buy and who from whom we buy it. Reviews and feedback have made it clear to me that Jeff Joseph makes excellent speakers and I imagine he would be selective in who he chooses to represent his brand. 
 

I plan to keep an open mind and will be listening to some Perspectives in the coming week. I will update this discussion on how it all goes. 

@ddafoe I've had just the opposite experience, the home dealer located near me is more honest and fair than the brick & morter stores who seem to just be interested in pushing products of the month. Where are you located?

Hi @mrdseitzer , I have audiovectors (among others) and have listened to most of the other choices.

The Audio vectors are probably the best bang for the buck in your short-list, along with the bigger Martens mentioned above.

There are 2 choices NOT mentioned that will easily outperform the excellent A-vectors & the Martens (etc):

*Perlisten 3 or 5 (5 is preferable, but whichever fits in your room). Vanishingly low compression and distortion even at high levels...

*Apertura Edena evolution, or Adamante -- this one is easily a couple of levels above the rest. Very fast, dynamic, extended and clear bass and a lovely midrange

Note that I go for dynamics, I listen to classical orchestra, i.e.complex music, and I too now have a relatively small room.

Enjoy the hunt!

I was fortunate to have a local Joseph Audio Dealer, so I could audition that brand as I wished.  Too bad they are so hard to come by "in the wild."

I’ve been really interested in hearing the Perspectives for a while. Unfortunately depending on where you live JA doesn’t make it easy to hear them. I didn’t have a great experience with a local dealer (based out of his house) and out of state dealers are not allowed to sell in an area with an existing dealer like I technically have.

For their now $17K MSRP, I was hoping for a little better initial dealer experience.

For now at least I’ve moved on and have demoed the Kaya 45, Yamaha NS5000, SF Nova III, Fyne F1-08, and the Fleetwood DeVille. All very fun listens. Maybe I’ll hear a pair of JA some day at a show or simply buy a used pair...

@rsf507 I’d try contacting one of their reputable dealers if JA isn’t responding. I’d start here…

https://nowlistenhere.net/

Does anyone know how to get ahold of Joseph Audio? Other than thru their website via contact form that they don't respond to?

I haven’t heard your speakers but read some great reviews there are a lot of great choices I think I am at my end game 

captainsteve,

nice pair of speakers you have there, I love audio vector but I also love the monitor audio platinum which I bought. I got the monitor audio platinum 200 ll.

@disc — I actually began my research by reading that thread and agree it is extremely helpful. 
 

@gdnrbob — Thanks for the reference - I may do a local New England roadtrip first but will definitely consider checking them out. 
 

I remain interested in the Joseph Acoustics, but it seems as though the local dealer isn’t interested in responding to my emails or calls. They must be doing pretty well to leave sales like that on the table, but I can’t say for sure and plan to try one more time before going elsewhere. 

Nice budget

Sonner, SF, Q Acoustics, Spendor?

@thr1961 , 

I know it would be a schlep, but a visit to Audioconnections in Verona, NJ would be time well spent. If you could line up some other dealers on the way, then it would be quite a nice trip that would help you decide. And, perhaps reach out to the Audiogon community to see if there are any Joseph Audio owners nearby that would let you listen to their systems.

Bob

OP, I recommend you check out the thread by Prof, "Contemplating DEVORE SPEAKERS (and others)....LONG audition report of many speakers".

I took delivery of a pair of Perspective2 Graphene three weeks ago and couldn’t be happier.  I had narrowed my options down, based on room size, personal preference, etc.  They sounded great out of the box and are improving.  Jeff Joseph and Aaron (at Now Listen Here) were great to work with.  All in all, I couldn’t be happier.  

I can’t compare them with the others on your list (which I’ve never heard), but am happy to share listening notes if you like.  In sum, I find them to excel in the qualities that you and others have mentioned.  Timbre is excellent, astonishing at times — especially the timbre of vocals.  I’m still working on placement, but the soundstage is large and 3-D.  They are fast and detailed, and not overwhelmed by complex passages.  I’ve had larger speakers with more bass presence (VSA HR-5 HSE), but the bass doesn’t seem absent as it does with some smaller speakers.

Good luck in your search. 

54 weeks ago I traveled to a dealer to hear QLN P 3’s, R3 Arrete’s and anything else he might have.  The demo was be done on the same integrated amp and streamer that I owned.

The speakers and seat were set up carefully in a very proper listening room.

For 5 or more years, I’d been actively searching for a speaker to replace my old but very very good 2-way floorstanders that had been modded way up using extremely good parts inside.  Finding a speaker that was both the right size for my room and able to provide a very big step up in SQ had been elusive.  For example, in a 2017 demo, I loved Audio Physic Codex but they are much too big for my room and I didn’t care for the smaller AP tower that would fit in my space.

I much preferred the R3 over the P3.  Not trying to step on anyone’s toes by saying that.  You are right to have them both on your list.  And depending on one’s preferences, some will prefer the P3, per my dealer.

With good gear ahead of them and set up carefully, R3’s…in my opinion, are an astonishingly good speaker.  Electrostat-fast, dynamic, dead silent (cabinet), capable of incredible LF, tons of resolution without a hint of harshness.  The demo room was 34 by 22 by 10 and the R3’s ability to play loudly and fill that space without compressing was unreal.  My room is a small fraction of that size btw and the R3’s sound great at low volume as well as high volume which is very important to me.

I’m not able to compare and contrast the SQ differences between the two at this point.  But my preference for the R3 was not by a small margin nor limited to a few aspects of performance here or there.  I liked it a lot better and in every way.

The R3’s will pass thru any changes you make in gear and set up, including raking.  The drivers blend together extremely well as if a single point source and they utterly vanish while throwing a deep, wide soundstage.  While looking directly at them, the perception is that the sound is simply not coming from them.

I plan to try the freedom grounding cable in the coming months.

Hope this helps.  

I've been interested in JA BUT can't seem to get a response from them via their website. Fill out the form and radio silence. Why don't they list a telephone number?

@thr1961 If you are in that range (~ $25K), I suggest you look out for a used pair of Joseph Audio Pearl. A couple of years ago, a local seller was selling them at an incredible price. He was nice enough to let me audition the speakers in his home for almost two hours. To say that I was blown away would be an understatement. Just wow!!!

Unfortunately, I couldn't get approval from the supreme being at the time and had to back out. The Perspective 2's give you the same sound signature albeit at a smaller scale. But unless your room is very large, I think they can easily fill it up with beautiful music.

Since you already own Harbeth, why not 40.3? That is one speaker I would like to try someday but for now I'm thrilled with my JA Perspective2's. Good luck!

This discussion is very timely as I am also exploring many of these same speaker. I currently have Harbeth 30.2 XDS, which I really enjoy, but I remain curious as to what the next step up might be. I too am drawn to the new Joseph Audio Perspectives, but have been challenged in finding them anywhere in or near Massachusetts. The QLN 5's are also on the list and I will explore some of the other suggestions made here. I am in a budget range up to $25k and I don't have the WAF to contend with (but I do have my own sense of aesthetics that would reject, say a lemon-yellow set of Wilson's without even listening!)

Thanks for letting me tag along and listen to the great ideas being floated  

I would also add Von Schweikert Endeavor E-3 to the list.  VS makes my favorite sounding speakers but I cannot afford them.  

As for quibbles I am not a fan of ceramic drivers unless they are in Von Schweikert speakers.  

Another one on the list is simply too laid back and rolled off for my tastes.  The other one uses smaller diameter woofers and I heard noticeable strain in the midrange when simultaneously playing deep bass notes in addition to a most un-natural sound overall.  

I heard the QLN at the NY audio show a year ago.

They were very nice, but seemed to be held back by either the system or cables.

They seemed to be similar to my Vandy Treo's when I had lesser equipment/cables.-Hence, my first comment.

B

I have heard QLN Prestige 3 (dealer in Austin) and currently own the Joseph Audio Perspective2 speakers. They are both amazing speakers in their own right. Keep in mind that Prestige 3 is a two-way floor stander, whereas JA P2 is definitely a full range speaker.

Since I heard the Prestige 3 at a dealer, feel free to take my impressions with a grain of salt. I really loved it ... it has a warmer, mid-range focused sound that I absolutely loved. The top end is somewhat subdued but not in a bad way. It is very smooth and refined sounding. And, oh, the bass on the speakers is amazing. If you have a sufficiently powerful amp you won’t need a sub despite the fact that it is a 2 way.

The Joseph Audio Perspective2, on the other hand, I feel has a more modern, clean, and balanced sound. It does not sound overly neutral (if that is a thing) or even remotely shouty by any means. Two outstanding traits: vocals (better than my Harbeth SHL5+ and M30.1), and percussion. Of all the speakers I’ve owned, I have never heard a speaker reproduce the sound of kickdrums, snares, and cymbals more realistically than the Perspective2. The soundstage and imaging is some of the best I’ve heard. They do require some breath room though (mine are almost 4.5 feet from the front wall and 2.5 feet from the side walls), otherwise bass can be a bit unruly.

To be honest, both are great speakers and I could have been happy living with either one. At this price point, you really need to audition before you buy. Good luck!

I've recently been looking for speakers with WAF very strong constraints.

My first selection included Spendor 9.2, Wharfedale Elysian 4, Audiovector R3 Arreté and Marten Oscar Trio.

I mainly listen to classical music. I listened to these speakers with Accuphase E-380 or E-650.

My clear selection was Marten. They are very neutral, the stage was stounding and they tend to disappear; I really forgot that I was analyzing equipment and went just into enjoying the music.

I listened to Marten Oscar Trio also with Canor Audio 1.20: astounding. The demo room of the retailer and the rest of the equipment was really, really good but I fell in love with the speakers and the amplifier.

Ilistened also the Oscar Duo but they did not like me like the Trio, at all.

Thanks for all the input so far. @avanti1960 I would love to hear your quibbles.

My preference would be the Spendor D9.2.  

Clarity, refinement, superb imaging, efficiency and microdynamic speed.  Best feature is a bottom firing flared port that has sub bass extension that mimics a transmission line.  

Of the ones on your list I have not heard the Cantons but unfortunately have quibbles with certain sound qualities of each of the remaining.  

I have only heard JA Perspective 2 on your list.  I can't recall the electronics and cabling used but they sounded very nice.

I am a Thiel guy so they were definitely in that vein - clear, open, and utterly transparent.  

If disappearing speakers and a wide and deep soundstage are your 1st concerns, QLN FTW!

Heard a pair of QLN 5’s, I was truly impressed. Haven’t had the opportunity to listen to the QLN 3’s.  The 5’s are my next purchase…

I have not seen or heard any of them.

Looking at all of them, glancing their specs, no more than that, I would pick the Canton Reference 7K

White, Black, Wood

If you can find some Rockport Atria ii speakers used it would be well worth an audition. Good luck!

Before spending that budget you  really should give Jim Salk at Salk Sound a look. I have his Ss M6 speakers and they punch way above their price range he has a range of floor mounts.

I like the audio vector but you should also listen to the monitor audio platinum Gen 2 and gen 3 when they come out in December, I believe that the platinum Gen 2 are a little bit better than the audio vector I like them both but I think the platinum are little bit more open than three-dimensional and that MPD Tweeter is better as well.

I have the small Canton Ref 1k and is very happy. Voices sounds really good and the bass that exists is clear with great timbre. If the big brother sounds similar it is a great choice. I've also been impressed when I've heard Marten and Qln at shows. The others I have not heard. I would try to go and listen to them. 

Marten Oscar Duo are a stand mounts. You probably want Oscar Trio.

+1 for the QLN and Joseph

also consider Fyne F-10

i bought the F-8 (stand mount) over the QLN and the Joseph’s.

I enjoy my QLN p 3 with my GamuT d200i amp ,added rel s8/12.Works well for me

with any of these choices you will need a better amp

out of all of your choices 

the altas are amazing for he money

the audiovecctors are really good so re the martens

I checked out the Audio Vector R1 Arrete recently and was mightily impressed.  I would assume that the R2 Arrete would continue that performance.

Ugh. I wholeheartedly agree on the JA Perspective 2 and @grannyring makes more good points. $15-$20k is such a competitive price point with so many incredible choices, I’m not sure if I more envy or pity you at this point. High-quality problem either way I guess.
 

Uh, just saw these JA Perspective 2s in the gorgeous Sapele finish at almost half price.  You could be a happy owner with an extra $7k-$12k in the bank or that could be used for further upgrades.  Just sayin’.  Happy hunting!

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649920381-joseph-audio-perspective2-sapele-finish-graphene-woofer/

QLN Prestige 3  and you will soon be upgrading that M-10. 

Audio Vector R3s are wonderful speakers.   My friend owns a set and they sound magnificent.  In addition, consider a used set of Dali Epicon 6’s.  Another great looking and sounding smallish floor stander. 
 

Both offer great resolution, detail and neutrality, but done in a very engaging manner.  Both  have deep and articulate bass to boot! 

I was an Audiovector dealer in the 90's, great line of speakers, build quality is top notch and sound is superb. You can't go wrong there.

I've heard the Joseph Perspective 2 paired with Vitus RI-101 Mk2 integrated amp.

Very engaging speakers and very impressive bass for the size.

Definitely a great speaker that i would consider.

I have Audiovector r6 arrete couldn’t be happier