Paradigm Persona series

I have a pair of Persona 9H’s in my listening room for evaluation having received them Thursday. I have to say I’m really impressed with them, and on just about everything I listen to except classical they sound very very good. The not so slight problem is that 95% of the music I listen to is classical. Re the brightness issue, I’ve attached below a link to the way they measure in room in my space after ARC’ing the built in powered subs. You can see two things here: (1) the slight rise beginning at 4K and continuing up to 10K, and (2) a small suppressed "smile" shape centered at 2K. This is somewhat consistent (although not as pronounced) with Stereophile’s measured response of the 7F the version of this speaker without the powered subs. You will notice in my room however that the tilt up is very slow and is not particularly pronounced. I would be more inclined to say that tilt up is inconsequential in my room IF your goal is flat response in this region. The slight dip centered at 2K is "almost" inconsequential as well. However I think MOST people (me included) are used to listening 3db or more DOWN at 10K, more than 6db down when compared to the Persona 9H. This is easily corrected with a couple of filters in Roon but when I do some very minor corrections in Roon I lose a good bit of the air/coherence/not sure what to call it, presence maybe?  So I’m on the fence about whether or not to keep these at the moment and will be auditioning some Magico’s Tuesday to get an idea of the Magico "house" sound as well. The speakers these are replacing are Thiel 2.4’s which are simply awesome but compress at high volumes on large scale orchestral music. The Persona’s DON’T compress at high volumes that’s for sure. I’ve only had them one full day at this point so I’ll be doing some more critical listening over the next few days. The power they bring to orchestral peaks in the low end is astonishing.  You’ll also notice the sharp dropoff in response at begins at about 13K. Initially that might look problematic but I don’t think it really is listening-wise...according to this its about 7-8 db down at 20K...again my room is pretty well damped with alot of thick wall to wall carpeting and upholstered furnishings. Here’s the link to the measurement, and a couple of photos of them being moved into my home.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yaphaka7vzc2bmv/inroomParadigm9H.jpeg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4t9h6pfk4mf7v8m/IMG_2593.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d00i6maudbymwv8/IMG_1952.JPG?dl=0

Ricred1 I think the point that Maplegrove is making is that there are a whole bunch of guys that jump on the "its too bright camp" while there are many others that don't make the same stink about a speaker which is rolled off and if you look at many of the measurements in Stereophile you can find many, many reference loudspeakers which have a recessed top end one really expensive loudspeaker had that and had a huge peak in the lower mid bass frequencies and that was a $125k set of loudspeakers.

We agree with you that there are a lot of great loudspeakers we sell the Kefs, the Legacys and the Dalis as our main loudspeakers lines and they are all excellent and suitable for different listeners. 

Our point about the Personas which would also apply to any of the uber high resoloution designs, like Rahido or Magico is that when you have this low a level of coloration or a driver that has uber clarity you are challenged with adding a bit of warmth somewhere in the chain.

Rivondale sounds like one of those guys who have never played with power cables or footers or tuning accessories which can alter the sound in ways that can be very beneficial in bringing out the things you are trying to accheive. 

Dep14 we apply a methodical method of tunning. We try many different brands of electronics, multiple digital front ends, cabling, power conditioners to the mix unti we get the sound we are looking for.

In the case of the Persona 3F that room has 54 different components in it is you took out the four pieces of surround sound gear and two headphone amps and a Zenith streamer that would leave you with 47 possible pieces of gear to play with from cheapie $1k integrated amplifiers up to a $30k Naim stack. we have high end intergrated amplifiers from NAD, Musical Fidelity, Micromega, Naim, Krell, Anthem, Sythesis,  as well as CJ, Cary, Anthem, Electrcompaniet and Coda separates, so we can create a very different sound depending on which particular set of gear is being played. 

For that reason alone we wanted to be able to play with some different gear for Mr. Hoffer.

You would be shocked to see how many stores just hookup what they have in one room to a set of speakers, meaning if they have ARC in that room which may sound great with a pair of  different speakers that are also in the room, that is what they play, you won't necessarily see sales guys saying we need to move in a pair of blank amplifiers from another room or change dacs or cables sometimes you do but many times you don't. 

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

@pwhinson  I had a dream last night that I had the same room as you . Unfortunately I woke up and still stuck with a crappy room.

Have you every considered the KEF Blade 2 in your space? I don't think it is as revealing as the Persona, I have not heard the 9H, only 5F. I will buy the 3F for a small space.

I bring this up because I loved the Thiel CS 3.7 and in the past I owned the much lowered end Thiel SCS4's. I see you are a Thiel fan. The only speaker sound wise and cost wise that I have liked better than the Thiel CS 3.7 is the KEF Blade. You may have the same sound preferences as me.

Thanks @yyzsantabarbara.  I have a friend who also liked the Blade 2 but I don't have a dealer locally who can demo it.  Have you listened to the Magico's?  They also I think meet our preferences as well as far as being very incisive, quick and detailed.  There is a dealer here in Atlanta but he only has the S1's (nonstarter...no bottom end whatsoever) and as of last Friday the A3s.  I'll be hearing the A3's once they have them properly setup hopefully Tuesday.  I'd really like to hear the S3 and S5 but I may have to go out of town to do that.  There is some urgency right now as to whether the Paradigm will be the one or be ruled out (they have a 20% off manufacturer's sale going on right now and that plus the dealer discount is significant).

One of the biggest factors regarding a bright speaker and why many don't like them.

https://ehomerecordingstudio.com/fletcher-munson-curve/

Fletcher Munson Curve.  As I stated much earlier in this thread.  The Persona probably works better for a listener that likes low levels and likes female vocals and is more into really dissecting a recording or a speaker.

For those that like to listen louder, a bright speaker just becomes more and more bright in reality.  Because of the Fletcher-Munson curve... aka science.

Also, as you get tired / have a long listening session the perceived loudness to what you are listening to goes up... contributing to fatigue and that is why the highs stand out most.

Ultimately this is why a demo matters.  But in any system far and away your listening habits, volume you like, and room you are in, with the speaker are what matters most.

Some companies try to measure flat, pure and simple.  Some put in a more friendly listening curve.

Then - sources, amps etc.

If you desire to throw money... uber expensive cables, powercords, conditioners, etc.

I don't use zip cord, but I sure as hell wouldn't expect to transform a speaker with uber cables.  Put the money into a better speaker (for you).

There are far and away more of a difference in how a speaker sounds based on design than there is amps, pre-amps etc.  Sure, tubes etc can change the sound, by introducing different levels and types of distortion (which as we know is pleasing to the ear).

Get the speaker right, the rest will follow.  Get the wrong speaker and chase forever!

@pwhinson I have heard a ton of Magico speakers. They are rather popular out here in the West Coast. I have heard some costing $150K+ (maybe $200K+) to the A3.

I did a very long and fruitful audition of the Magico A3 with Mark Levinson gear and I was trying to figure out how to fit the A3 into my small office. During, this figuring out phase I started to look at DSP capable preamps to help fit a floor stander into a smaller space. If I could figure that out I would have bought the A3. 

However, during the DSP preamp search I stumbled onto the Persona 5F and realized that the tweeter and mid range integration was more to my style on the Persona vs the Magico A3. So I am now going to buy a Persona 3F and use with a DSP preamp.

I had not really been a fan of the Magico's, most likely related to the cost aspect of them.  I only went to listen to the A3 because I have heard the Magico S3MKII at an audio show, in 3 rooms, and I was so surprised because it was the first Magico speaker that I thought I should consider.  I also heard the Magico S5MKII at the same show with much more expensive gear than with the S3MKII and did not like it. I attributed that to the electronics. The S5MKII is supposed to just be a bigger version of the S3MKII. A few people have questioned my sanity when I said I liked the Persona over the Magico and their arguments were similar to what we are seeing on this thread.

Another speaker I was considering but had to drop it because I was told is too big for my space was the Yamaha NS5000. I spoke with a NS5000 owner in Australia who either owned the Magico S5 or his brother owned it. His feedback was that the best mid-range he has ever heard was on the Yamaha. He preferred it to the Magico. It is a shame that I cannot fit the Yamaha because it seems like a incredibly interesting speaker. All 3 drivers are made from the same material that is supposed to be faster and lighter than BE. If you want more info on this one just PM me and I will send you some contact info.

The Vivid Kaya 90 which I heard reminded me a bit of the KEF Blades. That was the 3rd speaker in my list for my small space (actually the Kaya 45 would be what I would have ordered). It was a tossup between the Vivid and Persona but I started to consider cost and the side firing woofers of the Vivid in a small space and the Persona made more sense.

I forgot to added in the previous comment that I liked the Magico S3MKII much more than the Magico A3. However, the S3MKII is too big for my room.

BTW - I am not an audio historian but it seems to me that the Yamaha NS1000 was the precursor to the Paradigm Persona.

@yyzsantabarbara  Thanks again for all this info.  I would love to audition the Vivid line but alas again I have to travel from Atlanta to another major city to find those.  I heard the A3 a few days ago but it was in a tiny room, poorly setup.  They're moving those speakers into a large room.  They do have good electronics on everything they sell, primarily VAC tube gear.  After listening this morning I've played with placement a little bit but I'm finding the Persona's produce a more diffuse sound field, less localization and large images of individual instruments than the Thiels.  Part of that may be my room...I'm convinced that a very large rectangular room, placement of large floor standers on the long side, well well away from side walls and 3-4 feet from the back wall is the ideal positioning for imaging/soundstaging.  The most incredible depth and image localization I've heard anywhere -- don't laugh -- is on a system using JBL M2 monitors powered by huge Crown industrial digital amps which are kept in another room.  I rolled my eyes when I first saw this system but the imaging and depth of individual instruments in the soundfield and the localization of properly sized (small) images of individual instruments just blows everything else out of the water that I've heard.  Not sure how much of this friend's success is due to his large rectangular room with high ceilings but its really astonishing.  I don't have the desire to go that route, but it is what it is.  It was amazing.  And over the 30 some odd years I've been in this hobby I've had my own assortment of high end electronics and speakers (Sound Labs(!), Martin Logans, Thiels, Magnepans, Audio Research power, preamps, dacs, etc.  Of course we're talking about several decades there.  It may sound like I change speakers every minute but I don't really.  Just looking for that last "best" speaker I can find.

Interesting take on your friends room. I also have a medium sized rectangular room downstairs that is currently my toddlers play area. That room has a 25 foot ceiling and would likely sound rather great with the KEF Blade. Just have to wait a few years to test out that theory.

The persona 9h for $20k if it could be done could be the solution. 1400 watts with 4 bass drivers have me salivating... Don’t they have ARC built in? I would jump on it. I can't let a white coat lab rat tell me what I like better because a tweeter does or doesn't have a waveguide there's so much more to the final design and in my room wide dispersion speakers soundstage like crap, everything else being equal if a flat response was all it took as cheap as digital processing is these days all speakers would sound the same. I sold my salon 2's to a gent that's driving them with a pair of mc 601's and he says they put them into protection! The 9h would rock with my puny little integrated.

I copied and pasted from the $20k thread where another poser suggested with the sale going on til the end of the month a pair of 9h for $20k might not be out of the realm of possibility...

I know what the dealer cost is.  Nobody is going to go to $20K.

With the 20% off sale going on I could see a dealer stretching to like $26k or something though.

Why would any manufacture give 20% off an expensive speaker and ruin it for those who purchase in good faith at list?

Ctsooner: it’s a trade in program where you trade in your old speakers.  And most dealers will give 10-15% off normally anyway.  No one is upset about it aside from you.  There’s nothing unusual about something being on a promotion.  Every single industry does it.  

Seems like a savvy buyer may be able to get 30-35% off since the dealers are not taking the hit on the 20% or at least I would assume they are not. 

contuzzi286 posts02-24-2019 3:56pmCtsooner: it’s a trade in program where you trade in your old speakers.  And most dealers will give 10-15% off normally anyway.  No one is upset about it aside from you.  There’s nothing unusual about something being on a promotion.  Every single industry does it.  

Where did I say I was upset over it?  Just asked a question.  I'm happy for those who are getting great discounts, but to me it devalues the products.  They should just price them fairly to begin with.  Plenty of companies (in audio) don't allow dealers to discount and won't offer promotions.  I've seen dealers loose lines over this.

ctsooner...please tell me which companies do not make discounts ... because in 30 years in this hobby I have always achieved at least 20% in prestigious brands (Rockport, Magico, Sonus Faber, etc.)...and Paradigm is not different.

I submit there is a difference between a dealer providing discounts and a company. I know dealers that discount prestigious brands, but I don't recall any prestigious brands announcing a discount on a current product. 

@nabcs agree I've always have received 15-20% off and as much as 25% off all brands. I've had some dealers only offer 5% so I've left and bought the same gear at the 20% discount. Just like buying cars there are many dealers ready to negotiate. 

I know that Gryphon will stop a dealer from selling their gear if they discount it.  I know that most will only buy 'discounted' gear.  In the end, that's what the real price of the gear is.  20% off gear is a lot for a company to give.  It's very rare that any high end company to offer that type of discount from the company.  


What I have read you can trade in any speaker regardless of brand or size will get you 20%.  That's 20% off the MSRP and to ME devalues the product.  I"m happy for those who get great deals on audio.  Enjoy the music!! :). 

Vandersteen awhile back offered to give people a $500 discount on any new Vandersteen speaker that was their Treo Ct. or higher with a trade of any Series 2 speakers.

OK, I’ve now tried to put into words my reaction to this speaker having lived with it in my own space for four days. Its a bit lengthy. I’ve measured the speaker in-room from here to kingdom come numerous different ways with pink noise and frequency sweeps and think I now have a good idea of how it sounds in MY ROOM. Your mileage may vary. I’ve put all my remarks in a pdf here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7j9fg6ladl2ttjw/Paradigm9hReview.pdf?dl=0

There is a difference between a dealer who is not supposed to discount a product that highly, vs a manufactuer. 

In the case of Paradigm they routinely offer promotions, they are a very large company and can afford to do so. The dealer is getting something off of their invoice so it makes the sale more palitable.

As per routinely offering high discounts, most dealers will not and those that do can lose their franchises,  also it depends on the product certain very high end loudspeakers, not Kef nor Paradigm, but  have a higher than standard profit margin which allows for more discounting if that dealer wants to flaunt what they are actually supposed to offer their clients. 

Hope that clairfys this issue. 

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ Persona dealers

Thanks Dave.  My own personal thoughts are that I'd never buy from a company that does this on a regular basis unless I got that same type of discount when they weren't running a promo.  Why would you want to take that kind of a loss?  

I know they do it, but I never felt it was good business for those paying full or close to full price as many do.  I have a local dealer (as you know) who is a great guy. I've even purchased a pair of Paradigms from him years ago, but it was at 30% off.  Daughter likes them for her parties at college as she blasts them lol.

Guys, these are just my personal feelings and it's not a big deal unless you paid more than 80% of the price of the speakers, lol.  We can move on from this I'm sure.  

@pwhinson I read your nice review of the 9H in your room. I get the impression they don't have all you want to pull the trigger to buy. 

If not, what are the other options?

@pwhinson do you have them toed in at all?  They should be facing almost straight.  Maybe 5 degrees total.  I have never gotten brightness especially on orchestral recordings that are decent or better.  Even stuff like the old Telarc CDs sound simply incredible.  Almost laid back yet with jaw dropping dynamics, scale, and wade.

Oh, one more thing.  You mention wanting to adjust the bass response curve. With the new ARC Genesis, you will be able to custom tailor it however you want.  I think it releases in April or May.

pwhinson

I thoroughly enjoyed reading your review of the Paradigm Personal 9H.
Your descriptions, emotions and feelings are on target with my impressions as well. This is a beautiful loudspeaker with excellent engineering. Happy Listening!

Pwhinson;

We’ll;

Did you buy them?
great Summary & review?

They are super revealing and are persnickety of matching electronics and cables, just like Thiels

They were 2 on my list before I bought Revel Ultima2’s

Each component I listened to them with had its own “ distinct “ personality
ex: Mac amps - great highs , soft bass
Bryston amps- great bass, aggressive highs
Nordost cables- detail, detail
AQ-earth cables- warm & warm & cozy 
etc

jeff

frozentundra,
You made a good choice with the Revel Ultima 2. That is a fine speaker. One of my favorites.
Are you from Wisconsin???

ctsooner is a very funny guy. Every post from him is a opportunity to bash Paradigm, with subliminal messages, like the one in the last post ("daughter likes them for her parties at college ...").
I do not know the reason, but it is evident his crusade against this brand.

We would also question Rivondale's testing methodology who says that is Schitt amplifier is good enough to drive the Personas, what cables were used, what source? There is so much more to setting up a world class sound system then arbittarily trying amp A with speaker B, maybe with his Schitt amplifier a dac or source change might have been required.

@audiotroy 

Source: Bluesound Node 2 streaming Tidal CD quality into Luxman DA-06, via optical cable.

Cables: Audioquest "Storm" series copper power cables, Audioquest biwire beefy copper speaker cables (newer line, maybe Oak? didn't see) and Audioquest XLR interconnects. The XLR were red and newer line, so maybe Fire.

The speakers I listed were placed in the same position on the floor (tape on the carpet), and played on the exact same system outlined above, roughly volume matched using my iPhone dB measurement app. The ONLY variable was the speakers. So yes, while the setup itself may not have been optimized for the Persona 3F, that is irrelevant because I was comparing all the speakers I listened to with each other, with all else being equal. In other words, a controlled experiment.

Rivondale sounds like one of those guys who have never played with power cables or footers or tuning accessories which can alter the sound in ways that can be very beneficial in bringing out the things you are trying to accheive.

Again, incorrect. Stop making assumptions. I've tested multiple brands and materials of interconnects, speaker cables and power cables on my home system. Even this weekend I went back to the same dealer to listen to Aerial Acoustics speakers, which I adored the previous visit (described above), and found them much less to my liking. I assume this is because the Bluesound Node was plugged directly into my integrated amp this time via Nordost Heimdall 2 RCAs (no outboard DAC) and the speaker cables were smaller gauge silver cables instead of the beefy copper biwire speaker cables I used last time.

I've never said that one should not or cannot optimize their system around a particular component. I simply said that the Paradigm speakers are inherently flawed because of their tilted frequency response up top and they subjectively bright compared to other speakers on the exact same system. 

Could you please compare the sound of the Paradigm Persona 3/5F to the Legacy Audio Focus SE on the same equipment? The latter is a speaker I'm very interested in and would be curious to hear your thoughts as I've only heard the former. Know you've mentioned the brand elsewhere in the thread.

@frozentunda. I guess I’ve not decided unless and until I decide to buy something else but its obviously not a slam dunk. I hope this speaker purchase is my last before I'm put in my own fitted crate and sunk in the ground.  I’m not sure I’m ready to make any purchase this week, at least not until I hear some other options I know are out there.  But i’m somewhat limited because here in Atlanta despite the fact that its a city of some 7 million there just aren’t alot of high end dealers around. I’ve heard the Vandersteens but the only one’s I can afford that are in production are the Quattros which I like (powered subwoofer like the Paradigms) and although I think they are probably capable of more subtlety than the Paradigms they also seem to me to compress at higher volumes on full orchestral swells. You couldn’t make the Paradigms compress if your life depended on it.  In a way it may be the most accurate of them all if accuracy is what you really want but it just sounds a smidge more electronic to me on classical music whereas the Thiels don't.  I start to wonder if that's what all the time coherent first order cross over stuff is all about. I do have some limited qualms about the upper frequency range emphasis on the Paradigms but that's faded into a kind of minor point.  If you lessen the toe-in on the Paradigms you mitigate the very slightly hot top end. Going back to the Vandersteens, the 5a’s are out of production soon to be replaced by a $40K/pair speaker called something like "Quinto" while the 7’s require another $20K on top of that. The 5a would have been a likely contender but it started out its life as a $10K speaker that magically became a $35K speaker before they decided to discontinue it.  I just totally don’t understand Vandersteen's price increases over the past 5-8 years because while its evolved and been perfected somewhat with the carbon drivers there seemed to me to be no reason why the cost more than tripled.   With the Paradigms, remembering that I listen to mostly classical music, when I switch back my Thiel 2.4s, even though they sound muddy in the lower midrange compared to the Paradigm, individual instruments in quieter portions of the music sound just more natural on the Thiels and a tiny bit electronic on the Paradigms.  But truthfully I’m still trying to make sense of it all.  Clear as mud right?  It may be a case of having listened to and heard certain colorations in the Thiels for so long I can’t appreciate the relative accuracy of the Paradigms. The Paradigms are incredibly highly resolving. But whats the point of total clinical accuracy if it robs you of some of the emotional engagement you would otherwise have with the music on something like the Thiels. Of course some folks have said over the years that the Thiels sound "clinical" to them and there have been times when I thought the Paradigms in some way DID sound a bit like the Thiels. There’s still something that the Thiels (and Vandersteens for that matter) do right on classical music that I fear the Paradigms don't.  So I guess to answer your question I feel I’m pretty lucky to hopefully spend another day or two to get the sound of the Paradigms burned into my memory because I really do believe its a great speaker.  I really admire the speaker and the bass is just great not just because it goes so low but because it is so tuneful and so full of texture and while the midrange and tweeter are extremely revealing there is just some thing there that bothers me a little bit.  If I could play it for you and point it out and then switch in the Thiels I think you would hear it as well. I will get a taste of the character or house sound of the Magico lineup tomorrow via the A3...I would really like to hear the S3s and S5s but this dealer doesn’t have them in stock and truthfully the dealer seems more interested in selling Von Schweikert than Magico. There’s also aways the possibility of picking up a pair of Thiel 3.7s on the used market particularly since new driver replacement and service remain available on Thiels given the kind of cult following Thiels have and the couple of businesses that have popped up to service that following. Another thing the Paradigm has going for it by the way is that I confirmed with the company that virtually all parts of that speaker are field replaceable if service is ever needed...drivers, amplifier module etc. The only Magico that you can say that about is the A3. All the other Magicos have to be shipped via freight all the way back to California. The Thiel 2.4s which I bought new here in Atlanta 10 years ago were only $5K which was alot of cash for me at the time but this decision is going to be alot harder to make and I want it to be right.

pwhinson

an excellent summation on the Paradigm 9H loudspeaker. You possess an educated, trained ear,  to be sure. These current, modern speakers that incorporate Be drivers are lightning fast. In the same vein as a Thiel Audio loudspeaker, it is easy to confuse unnatural accuracy. This particular model tells us why an audition is imperative.
Enjoy your A3 demo this week. Happy Listening!

Pwinson, didn't realize I was talking with you the other day here is our coaching for you. 

You would be silly not to jump on the 9H now during the sale. What you are dealing with is a topic near and dear to our hearts which is product tuning.

 No loudspeaker on the market at any price will be perfect to a listener and trying to duplicate the sonic fingerprint of your Thiel is not possible, as they were unique designs the same as a Rockport or a Wilson of a Focal etc and the Personas are superior speakers to your Thiels not to mention that Thiel is out of business it is a great idea to upgrade to a more modern design from a company that is in business. 

As I mentioned to you, sold Thiels for three years and personally knew Kathy and Jim. 

The people on this forum would have you believe that the "issues" you have with the Personas are due to their frequency abberititions  and you have to be stuck with them. 

The reality is we too have seen the heaven and hell of this design, the heaven is that the speakers are totally tranparent, fast, articulate and sometimes spooky how real they can sound. 

The hell particularly with the 9H is that they can still sound a bit cool and lacking a bit of warmth in the midrange which imparts a slightly sterile quality to the upper midrange, which is what we think you are not liking.

If you contact Fast, or read the threads we participated in in regards to his Kef Ref 5, you will see that we applied a series of fixes to his system which made his Kef Ref 5's come alive. 

These included adding footers to the speakers, a change in interconnects, ethernet cable and usb cabling, a change in music server, adding a power conditioner, changing his dac, adding power cables, and finally a room tuning product, along with reposoitioning his loudspeakers.

The end result of all of this in our opinion his newly tweeked up and augmented setup outperformed a local audio retailors $300k plus setup,

Fast's setup had really old 20+ year old ARC gear, and the speaker cables were not changeable as they were run under the floor,  the result of adding a better dac, $6k, a new server $3.4k cabling $6k for the interconnects, $700 usb, $210 ethernet cabling, footers $1,200.00  $4k room tuning Stein Harmonizers, $5k power conditioning, and $4k power cords

Yes all of those parts when added up would not be cheapie additions the point of this story is that even with all of these parts added and a retunning of the speakers in the room created a sound which bettered a $300k rig that would still be money well spent to create the sound which in Fasts room was magnificent, and he too was having the buyer's remorse conversation that his speakers werent sounding right or the way he wanted to before we started working with him.

Fast did not get all of the parts we demoed, he did change his cables, and added a server, he has not yet upgraded his dac, nor power system,  and has not gotten the footers or Stein products. 

The additions that he did do made a huge difference in transforming his sound, we have left it up to him to go as far as he wants to in the way that he wants to go. 

There are a few items you can do to add a bit more warmth in the midrange with the Personas, without spending a lot of money:

the Furutech NCF boosters believe it or not added a nice touch of additonal warmth, a change in power cords and the right power conditioner can also help, one of our favorite conditioners is $3k,

 Critical Mass footers are amazing a single set applied to the right component can produce some mind blowing improvements, from $1k a set to $2,800.00 

 the Iso Acoustics footers can be had for $210 dollars per component and can be used under the preamp, dac, and amp for some very audible improvements, not quite as amazing as the Critical Mass devices however, they produce some remarkable results for not much money, lastly the new ARC Genesis program will allow you to alter the low freq curve which will add some additional warmth to the speakers.

A product which is as transparent as the Personas will require you to do a bit of work they are not a drop and plop type of speaker, they will require you to make a series of changes to tune them to suit your taste some of the additions are not expensive.

If you heard our display system you would know just how remarkable the speakers can sound. 

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ Persona dealers

Who wants to buy a speaker and HAVE to buy footers, new cables, dac's, server's, power systems.....this is a joke! Just unbelievable how audiotroy has to self promote. 

Nice review. Unfortunately 4 days are certainly not long enough for proper break in. I am assuming they where new?  The Personas need 300 hrs per Paradigm and I can attest this to be true. 
Beryllium takes a long time to settle. I would like to see measurements 6 mos later.  
The owners are the only folks who know how good these speakers can be.  And yes with their fantastic transparency the addition of tuning footers, the changes in cabling has a tremendous change on the speaker.  Little bit of work but well worth it in the long run. 

No need for any kind of “tuning footers” or anything like that. If they’re sounding bright, you need to get them positioned properly and acoustically treat your room. Things like ISO acoustic Gaia’s are nice and all, it the higher end more inert speakers like Personas don’t benefit from them much if at all.

Raising them off the ground a little would have the same effect. Any kind of “mod” to a Persona is completely unnecessary.

@yyzsantabarbara What kind of music do you listen to?  Classical, jazz? pop?

Benzman is right...Persona 9H need at least 300h of burn in. When I received my Personas 9Hs the mids were a little congested and highs a little hot. But after 3 months the improvement was amazing!
I do not listen to classical music, but jazz and alternative indie rock, and now the sound is scary real ... the singers are in the room performing for me. I drive the 9Hs with a SET Amp (845 tubes...50 wats Class A), and maybe this amplifier adds the natural warmth the speakers need, I do not know.

"No need for any kind of “tuning footers” or anything like that. If they’re sounding bright, you need to get them positioned properly and acoustically treat your room. Things like ISO acoustic Gaia’s are nice and all, it the higher end more inert speakers like Personas don’t benefit from them much if at all."

Sorry I was not talking about brightness. That was gone with break in and a cable change. I sure nobody is using the rubber feet that come with. The Combak Harmonix 909 tuning footers takes these speakers to a new level in my system. I am on a crawl space with hardwood flooring and maybe it is just my floor but they do an amazing job of tightening up the bass and improving the focus of the midrange while taking the tweeters to a new level of delicacy.     

I use Townshend Seismic Isolation Podium with great effect.
Speaker and interconnect cables are Audience Au24 SX.

I can see how a wood floor or sub floor would still allow a benefit from isolation now that you say it.  I’m on concrete.  

Funny in my system I sold my Au24SX interconnects and speaker wire when I bought the 5F's . Just way to lean.

@pwhinson  My musical tastes run through a wide selection. I go through periods of listening to certain types of music. A few months ago it was heavy metal, at the moment it is a lot of 70's Soul and R&B. I have not had too many classical music periods lately but I do enjoy classical. I really like anything that gets my legs tapping.

A few things I value in a speaker are:
-  the ability to hear the details in a recording 
- the ability to visualize the 'live" musical performance if I close my eyes 
- a coherent sound where the drivers sound as 1 source 
- speakers disappear

As I mentioned in the prior posts my favorites speakers to do these things are:

Thiel CS 3.7 (unfortunately Thiel is no more)
Persona 5F (only model I have heard)
Kef Blade  (my favorite, no need to close eyes with this one)

I am very happy to read the posts by the Persona 9H owners here who are describing how their speakers sound after break-in. That type of sound is what I am after, though it will be with the 3F in a very small room.

contuzzi290 posts02-27-2019 1:59pmI can see how a wood floor or sub floor would still allow a benefit from isolation now that you say it. I’m on concrete.

>>>>As fate would have it the concrete floor is also moving, slightly perhaps, mostly in the vertical direction, by virtue of the fact that very powerful seismic forces, e.g. subways, Earth crust motion, traffic, cause the entire building to vibrate. Think of it like shaking out a rug. Thus, vibration isolation is effective even for system on concrete slabs.

benzman, I changed my cables from Kubala Elation to Audience Au24 SX, because I thought the sound was more natural with Audience, and I didn´t find the sound thin.

But with the new Arc Genesis software probably we can add a little more body to the upper bass.

Everything is system dependent. The Audience where a nice match for my previous Magico S3   The Personas in my room where a little on the bright side. I didn’t give them much time and if I let the Personas break in they probably would have been fine. 
I  really like the Cerious Matrix. Bob made me a sweet pair of jumpers that really helped the overall presentation. 
Audience makes good stuff as I went up the ladder from E, SE,SX. 
Still have a few of their power cords in the loom. 
Now  I am looking to integrate a sub with the 5fs. The bass is pretty good but folks say a good sub will open up the whole system. Looking for something with some kind of room correction. Always chasing. : )

@audiotroy 

How do you pair the footers of the Gaia's or others to the large threaded inserts on the Persona's?