Paradigm Persona series

The pathos logos mk2 was my favorite

I've only heard the 3f's from that line with an Anthem front end and I expected them to be bright, even had dealer play diana schuur and they were smooth, but regardless what people say about speaker break in he/dealer said they sounded pretty harsh for a good week. I thought the Kanta'2 imaged better at the same price though I wouldn't say either speaker was better.

I heard the 7f being driven by STR separates last weekend , This is a long thread so I might be repeating myself. Detailed and fast with a top end that I could compare to the focal electra 1028be meaning fed a good recording they really moved me and poor recordings became 2 dimensional and boring. If I didn't know better I would have taken advantage of the offer the dealer made me right then. The Persona measures a bit like a smiley face but I never got the impression the mids were recessed. I also didn't find them bright as much as unforgiving of poor recordings. Bass was as tight and fast as the 3f but much deeper and the sound stage and images within were amazing.
I'm lucky that I have dealers that will let me home demo a product i'm interested in in fact they demand it! How's that for policy. 

AT I was mimicking the point you made. That it can take years to get the best out of a pair of speakers. I was making my own point that I find it unacceptable that a high end pair of speakers is a black hole that needs years of tweaking to get the best out of! If a pair of speakers cost as much as the family car it should work out of the box. Anthem and Paradigm are the same company and if their 2 statement products don't whip the competition when paired I say they failed.

I do wonder how much a tipped up treble highlights the differences in recordings? I compared the 7f to the 1028be in their mutual ability to weed out the crappy recordings, nothing more. contuzzi is passionate about hifi i'll give him that. Intensity on the net can so often create assumptions that drag us off topic, but, wtf what else we got to do.
 I went in to borrow the Kanta 3's and ended spending a couple hours with the 7f. I knew right then, I think we all did that the Kanta wasn't going to cut it after that demo. I still like the Kanta 3, so ya'll don't start hating on focal. I'm trying to get flat bass down to 40 hz in my room and nothing has delivered! so the 1 arrangement I hadn't yet tried was speakers ported from front and back, but they didn't work either. I think I already said that if I trusted I could get the 7f to sound in my room like they did in the demo I would vote with my money and buy them, but I know they won't.

Yea, I was commenting on your finishing with aeriel 6 being all that. If a speakers bright but clean, not sibilant or spitty and the repercussion is added detail and imaging i'll put some treatments on the wall at the first reflection point and enjoy the show, but if it isn't clean the deals off. I found the personas tweeter to be clean and extended. 

The persona 9h for $20k if it could be done could be the solution. 1400 watts with 4 bass drivers have me salivating... Don’t they have ARC built in? I would jump on it. I can't let a white coat lab rat tell me what I like better because a tweeter does or doesn't have a waveguide there's so much more to the final design and in my room wide dispersion speakers soundstage like crap, everything else being equal if a flat response was all it took as cheap as digital processing is these days all speakers would sound the same. I sold my salon 2's to a gent that's driving them with a pair of mc 601's and he says they put them into protection! The 9h would rock with my puny little integrated.

I copied and pasted from the $20k thread where another poser suggested with the sale going on til the end of the month a pair of 9h for $20k might not be out of the realm of possibility...

It looks looks the discount has been extended

Post your findings. The review of the personas all come with high praises yet always a disclaimer attached. I could swing a pair of 9h during the sale, but it would pretty much end my shopping days forever more. That my room can make most every speaker I bring home sound like a eunuch makes these appealing, but soo much money for a speaker that requires such precision to work as intended doesn't sound like a good choice for someone who can't afford to get it wrong.

My dealer, i've probably said this already, could probably make my logitech speakers sound stunning so i'm not surprised I didn't find the 3f or 7f bright. detailed and extended for sure. I also wonder about the credibility of reviewers and if their reviews deserve all the respect they're givin. The lenses might be nothing more than liability protection from children licking the BE drivers? they don't seem to harm the sound and if I had an extra $10k laying around I would have already bought my pair. anybody 

I used to be in the camp that a tweeter didn't even have to be auditioned to know how it sounded based solely on the material of the dome, but I listen first now because i've been proven wrong a few times. listening to speakers that sounded so good I couldn't even guess which driver a particular note was coming from let alone guess the material of the tweeter dome. I suppose the less radical the design the easier, safer, path to good sound, but speakers like these may have the potential to surpass them all, if you know what you're doing. 

I couldn’t convince myself to buy the 9h even at the sale prices. Instead I bought a used pair of DSP8000’s.  The correction available from the speakers is limited in comparison to what the 9h offers, but is clearly useful and the more popular user adjustable speakers become hopefully the more available and cheaper. Not set and forgot, but adjusting on the fly for different recordings is really easy to get used to and I hope paradigm extends arc to more models 

You guys aren't suggesting it took 2 years to get them dialed in? I would thing your co-recommendation for the Kef Blades would come with the same qualification that the right amp is needed to make them sing. 

I can understand what you're saying in regards to getting high performance from a system and a lot of us truly believe buying the speakers is 95%, that all amps sound the same, that if it measures good it sounds good. I don't think it helps manufacturers like paradigm that attract the cost conscious that their $35k speakers will probably sound worse than their $3500 speakers without a significant investment in everything else in the chain.  

Speaking for the masses that will look at the measurements of a certain speaker and decide without even listening to like them or not, and there's plenty out there as this thread has shown.

So what have been the most cost effective speakers to extract their best out of? The better the speaker the higher the ceiling right. If that’s true then active speakers would be the safe bet for someone on a budget. Is the ls50 active better sounding than the passive model, I don’t think it’s wrong to expect a $35k pair of speakers to be exceptional driven by any competent front end.

That should be the standard!

It needs to be stressed more. I have a couple dealers I use, (kinda like the old days,sniff) don't anyone to know how bad the addiction is. One of the dealers is very clear about component matching and has no qualms about telling me when i'm in the wrong room! meaning even tho' I might be able to afford the speakers on display i'll never be able to make them sing. I think thats why i'm going active. wyhiwyg.

My experience trying to put together a greater sounding stereo has pretty much mirrored what audiotroy talks about. I don’t dispute their reality I just don’t like it because I cannot afford to play there. I had hoped that using audiogon and patience I would be able to assemble a class a system for a fraction of the cost. Unfortunately AT is spot on when they say you can’t buy a bunch of components that get great reviews and count on great sound, for me now it’s the chicken or the egg? Do I buy an amp/ pre amp and find speakers that like them? Wtf, seriously. I’m interested in great music not fancy boxes. There’s a lot of companies offering active speakers and to audiotroys analogy when you buy a Porsche it already has a sota tranny, tires, suspension, etc they don’t bankrupt you and then say what did you expect your garage doesn’t have a lift! I know they didn’t make the model but they support it.

The problem with the typical B&M is price. I'm not going to spsnd hours of their time learning whats what only to buy everything used on AG. but if I buy new i'll have to settle. 3f instead of the 7. f228be instead of the salon2. Yes a dealer can make the more affordable system ferform at its best but it disregards the val,ue of AG and buying used.

Good thread. 

I think the point about cubic feet, and room acoustics is valid and waf. But I think if somebody’s in deep with a mark levinson or any other ‘premium ‘ brand i would definitely avoid starting over. Thats where audiotroy just plows straight ahead, they talk like the average audiophile has unlimited funds and to that logic everything else they say makes perfect sense. Why they preach it so furiously on a used gear forum is probably why they get a bit of attitude from time to time. 

I could be wrong but I thought the mid and tweeter were the same thru out the range? same with the front baffleAre we still talking about these speakers? They HAVE to be something special for all the attention they get.

Bump, have the persona 7f in my listening room right now where the salon 1 & 2, usher be20dmd, Kanta 3, a couple 90’s kef Reference the VA strauss And Beethoven have spent time. These are easy to power, so I would suggest a quality 50 wpc over a powerhouse ‘affordable’ unit. I’m using my hegel h360 but I’ve heard these with a few pieces driving them and I wonder if the Pathos I liked them so much with at the shop would make the same magic here? Not bright, no sibilance, but I can understand why some folk say so as the detail in the midrange is uncommon and bass is tight. The speakers with the Hegel do seem more like surgical instruments than musical instruments, but its early days and I haven’t spent any time on placement yet, I may not they’re really fun as they sit.  I’ll add more as I spend time with them.

The Yamaha is still on my short list along with the blade and a couple others,but for now I'm just going to enjoy these.

I’ve only heard the Blades at axpona while ive had time to listen to the 7f with a variety of components. The R 107/2 and R105/3 had residence here, the 105’s for 25 years so I was ready for something different. There’s a few pair on my list including the blade is the VA ‘the musik and I’d like to hear the new magico A5, but these personas are really good and I have to sell them to move on. I just finished alice in chains unplugged and could play it again. Thats how it is with this system, the more time I spend with them the harder it is to walk away, fast, tight and dynamic bottom to top with a deep, wide soundstage. I get the impression the entire recording is laid bare, pretty cool. 3 weeks in.

As to cutting edge material, It was the main reason I was interested in the persona line and they can be amazing, but I still think everything is a compromise. When we hear details never before heard from a recording there has to be a reason and my initial impressions are instrument decay loses emphasis... it's a design choice to place hyper detail over lush midrange because both can't occupy the same space at the same time and both be heard. Whats unusual about the persona speakers is that choosing the components for the job these speakers will deliver the sound you prefer. My meridians are more on the lush, fat side of neutral with a full midrange and all the detail is there, it's just not highlighted making for a more natural, musical presentation. The personas with the right components for the room acoustics can be tuned for the sound desired. This I know because I've heard it happen swapping out gear.

Ushers are great speakers.  The xover upgrade for my be 20dmd’s was pretty reasonable. I sold them because I really wanted to try a pair of dsp units that came up, but usher does a really great job making revealing speakers that don’t shred your set list. The dmd midrange driver available as an upgrade is interesting, tho i really thought the be mid was perfect.

I won’t argue with the personas being more transparent with better imaging I would suggest the bass integration is also phenomenal wrt personas, but the ushers are considerably less fussy to placement and partnering electronics.