I purchased a PNP Bronze from a member who said it was less than two months old. Its the one with the integrated headshell for SME mount or can be used without headshell on a Rega type arm. Well,I undid the screws and was pulling off the tags,<I've been in Analog since mid seventies and own about 20 cartridges>Anyway the pins coming out of the cartridge body pulled right out. This has never happened even on my cheapest junk cartridge. The seller had a reciept from Turntable Needles and Ortofon said they are not authorized dealer. They also said it was clearly a manufacturing issue and should have not happened.
Meanwhile,they say I should go after seller for a refund.Well its not the sellers fault and I won't do that. Neither is it mine,I've removed headshell wires hundreds of times and know what I'm doing.
What amazes me is how PETTY and Crappy a well known respected long time company can be. ITs amazing that a company like Bryston can offer warranty work to the tenth owner in the 19th year and these people won't even stand behind a obvious Quality Control DEFECT Just a word of caution to Ortofon customers,think twice. Steve
"
Let me say this,has anyone ever had all four pins come out of a
cartridge body.No me either.They clearly were not glued in and pulled
out easily with no effort
"I had this happen with a Shinon Red Boron cartridge back in the 1980s. The entire back of the cartridge pulled out with part of the internal mechanism attached. I loved that cart before it suddenly died.
Maybe user error, too much force used...or maybe just a bum cartridge...it happens with all manufacturers now and then...it maybe slipped by QC...I own the 2m bronze and it is a wonderful cartridge.
There are individuals in ownership of Ortofon Models that are more than 10 years old and are able to keep them functioning through various methods. My endeavours with Ortofon Cartridges is one where I intend on having the purchased Cartridge to be used as a Donor Cartridge for a rebuild. Such a Purchase is governed by Caveat Emptor.
In numerous conversations with my rebuild Technician, who has a very intimate knowledge of Ortofon Models. There is not a Ortofon Cartridge being suggested as not usable as a result of Poor Quality Control from Ortofon. The selection process suggested, is based on what the end user is hoping to achieve with the build, and always to seek out a Cartridge which has a cantilever that has no noticeable alignment issues.
The assessment from my end is that Ortofon have produced numerous Cartridges and as made known in this thread a particular model is transparently reported after an enquiry, as having a known of Quality Issue, and has been discovered and Ironed Out.
I am remaining confident with Ortofon, and feel there will be other reliable donor cartridges to found for future endeavours.
If Ortofon were not so transparent with their explanation about the Quality Issue, this thread may have been a request to be informed on a reliable repair Technician, who could secure the Pins.
Hi,I sympathise with Steve, and I cannot understand all these uninformed responses seeking to attribute legal liability to 1st, 2nd, 3rd parties in the transactions. This is solely a manufacturing/design issue. it should not be possible to pull out the pins of a cartridge without excessive force, Problem: caused by Ortofon. trust me I have been in high-tech
manufacturing
for 40 years and Hi_fi for the same time. Never, ever managed to pull pins out.I must declare an interest:
2 years ago I bought an Ortofon Om10, a real disaster, After days trying
to get it to track, there was a bad edge to the sound; medium level
distortion from mistracking. Checking with a microscope I found my
stylus was conical - not elliptical. Ortofon churn out these to the grey
market. Customer service useless.
Avoid Ortofon.Brian
It never happens even with 40 years old vintage cartridges, they are properly made, not like new Ortofon.
Honestly, i have changed the leadwires on so many carts, moving them from one headshell to another, they are all made in the 70's or in the 80's, and i have never ever had any problem with cartridge pins.
This is definitely Ortofon's quality control and poor build quality of the modern cartridges from one of the biggest manufacturer.
It happened to me too with an Ortofon 2m Bronze! It's like they're booby trapped! You can press the pins on with no problem, but when you go to remove the pins they pull out and the cartridge is destroyed!
What is disappointing is that it doesn't seem that Ortofon is acknowledging that there is a systemic design problem with their cartridges....
The seller purchased off the gray market, bad move! Ortofon must be pretty busy filling the needs of all those new folks getting into vinyl records and $$ may be getting in the way of QC. Sad really!I still have teeth marks on my rear end from my "Grey Market" purchase years ago.
Hi, the same thing just happened to me with my Ortofon m2 Bronze on my mmf 5.3 turntable. i couldn’t believe it either, I’ve been in this hobby for ~40+ years and never had that happen! its obviously a manufacturer/ design defect in which a reputable company like Ortofon should stand behind! Maybe we should put a YouTube video out for Ortofon owners to beware of this issue. I heard it happened to a friend of mine on his EAT turntable’s $1400. Ortofon! Quality should come first!
I pulled the red pin out of my newish Ortofon Super OM cartridge last night. Just devastated. Emailed the story of the tragedy with pictures to the vendor this morning. The Needle Doctor is sending me a new one! It could have gone either way. I love those guys... Brian, Ken... thanks SO much.
What the heck is a 2M Silver? I have never heard of such a beast in the Ortofon stable.
In any case, if the cartridge was pre-mounted by the factory then it's probably covered under the turntable warranty. If it was pre-mounted for you by the dealer or seller then I would contact them.
If you purchased the cartridge from an authorized Ortofon dealer or partner than Ortofon will make it good under warranty.
Just all,just have the same pin out problem of my new silver 2m cartridge.Bought New Project RPM 3 pre mounted with the 2m silver from authorised dealer,so do the warranty applies to cartridge too? No excessive force was used when pulling out the leads. pls help ..
This may come as a shock to you guys, but many manufacturers will stand behind a product with a known manufacturing defect- regardless of the paper trail. I know, they are totally poor, inexperienced business people, but it happens. You don't even have to be a big spender or a person of influence, they just feel like it's the right thing to do. These knuckleheads many times run great businesses and are written about as examples of making customers raving fans.
Now I'll let you get back to a attacking the original poster - maybe take his birthday away?
If it was bought it from an authorized dealer, you would have no problem at all. Like almost all manufacturers, Ortofon warns of this issue:
"Where can you buy Ortofon products?Ortofon Authorised Partners
and Dealers can help you discover the Ortofon product that is right for
you. Our Authorized Partners and Dealers have comprehensive knowledge
and experience in use of Ortofon products and are able to deliver high
standard customer service in accordance with Ortofon's Quality Policy"
"Make sure you purchase a genuine product and always buy from Ortofon Authorized Partners and Dealers."
I am obviously a dealer, and Louis is one of the best and most knowledgeable guys in audio. Ortofon stands behind their products so long as the original buyer bought from a dealer.
I think we should all take a minute to realize this manufacturer has an obligation. A fellow willing to purchase a product second hand that "hasn't purchased an item new since the eighties" but has inside manufacturing knowledge is imperative to their continued success. The shareholders won't be happy.
It's always somebody else's fault, especially if they appear to be a profit based corporate organization. And there's always going to be someone looking for something, for nothing. Ever wonder why these companies have a tough go of it. You don't care to support the cost of doing good business and yet you whine about not getting good service. Does this make any sense at all?!
We need cartridge makers offering a transferrable warranty on grey market goods. Sign me up. Goodbye Ortofon! ; ) Doesn't everyone assume, when they purchase grey market or used, that the manufacturers warranty is void? Yes. You go in with your eyes open. Part of paying full price is for the warranty protection. Don't pay, don't get, save money, take chance. Hard pill to swallow when the gamble goes bad though. Own the situation you created and move on.
My purchases aren't material to Ortofon- but I'd buy an Ortofon product again. Sounds like they just had a couple of issues with the pins, etc.
I wouldn't be surprised if they don't make it right with their unauthorized distributor.
What caught my attention in the thread is how quickly this guy was called cheap, etc. He had a product break and was excited. Most of us have been there, or at least I have. I'm generally a loyal customer that seeks good win/win deals, and very, very rarely have any problems.
My intention was not to insult anyone- my apologies if I did.
On a brighter note, Weather Report put out some great music! Listening to 'The Legendary Live Tapes', sweet...
FWIW, I'm by no means "disgruntled" with Ortofon, they remain one of my favorite cartridge choices, I recommend and sell them frequently. That I had one mishap with a cartridge, where I do think that the specific design of the connection pin could have been better executed does not change my opinion of the company, they are excellent to deal with and make a terrific product.
I too think its unfortunate that some hothead bloviates about this to the degree that the he does. Apparently he got a replacement, why not be happy with that and let the thing go.
You seem to not want to give up slamming Ortofon. Or slamming anyone on this thread that disagrees with you.
Well even on the internet and much to your dismay, I doubt that two disgruntled individuals will cause their sales to plummet. I for one, love my Rondo and when the time comes to replace, I no doubt will go even higher up the ladder to a Cadenza.
Again, I am happy for you that Turntable Needles stepped up to the plate to make it right. So isn't time you take the high road too and stop insulting the majority of participants on this thread? And yes, I did get through college and on the Deans List too.
Sorry, I rule for the defendant (Ortofon )....cart was bought used from a person who purchased from an unauthorized seller...the mfg. has no responsibility here.
If you buy grey market...you assume the risk in doing so. What part of "you don’t get something for nothing" confuses people?
With that being said...I wonder how some of these unauthorized sellers get their stock... I have the feeling that, in some cases, the manufacturers have no qualms about taking money from unauthorized sellers...while looking down upon them.
(For the record: I do understand that some GM sales are out of control of the mfg. Eg. Out of country purchased, imported on side... but don’t believe mfgs go out of their way to stop it...sales without warranty obligation works very well in their favor)
This was a response i got,the issue is a known issue. To all the Ortofon cheerleaders,go to@%@%@%
Hi Steve
Yours went out before we knew the issue.
We've had it on 2 bronze and one black.
as soon as we get the cartridge body back with
receipt and confirm its condition, we will send out a
new body. We've seen it before! That's why we've no
hesitation regarding the problem and solution needed.
Even though you're not the original purchaser. If your
story was that the needle was bent in half that would be hard
pressed to be covered.
Yes Ortofon is not wise enough to "authorize", one
of the largest needle suppliers. In time they will learn
as their sales plummet. Their response to you should be
well it wasn't purchased from an authorized dealer but
yes we are aware we made a major defect on some of
our very overpriced high end cartridges so we will take
care of you "just this one time".
They are factory "firsts" (or so Orto thought when they
left the factory). I am not aware that Orto or any other
cartridge brand lets "seconds" out the door
Soundsgood05, You are not an authorized Ortofon dealer and have no business disassembling a second hand cart and then holding Ortofon (or anyone) responsible for anything IMHO. I have owned dozens of Ortofons and you discredit our hobby to attack a company with such a long history and in such high standing, with such a frivolous case in point. I too am a long time Hi-Fi analogue guy and industrial designer and from what I can make out of your claim, I'm sorry, it is baseless. My advise? Get over it and move on. This should not be made as a public dispute.
As for your comment on Nelson Pass, if I could understand it I would comment. Sufficed to say, Nelson is but another fountainhead of creation and a most charitable man with his knowledge, and a kind hearted soul in my experience. Likely if he felt something was "stupid" it must have worked long and hard to get under his skin. I would except his judgement on face value.
Heres the kicker,a fellow bought a FFYX TT from China,the platter wobbled like crazy,he posted on YOUTUBE so everyone that googles FFYX is directed to that,what do you think that does for sales?i told Ortofon I would be doing the same,showing OOPS the pins came OUT!,this must be a new design.Thats what i thought when it happened.For now,I'm done.I'll return to my lowly Shure V15VMR,probably run circles around the Ortofon anyway. Got side 1 and 2 of "This is the Moody Blues"cranked up,puts things in perspective.This has been fun,well worth the hundred or so dollars I might be out.
Touche',i got someone to agree with me, Companies used to spend incredible amounts on advertising.Now its about public relations from a grassroots perspective.I never once had Nelson Pass tell me my concerns were stupid and did I buy it from an authorized dealer.Theres a new paradigm business mode. Look at car insurance,spend billions on adverts,yet they are priced the same. Shut up and put the money to better use.
I totally agree, that's why so many businesses are struggling. The internet gives us more options and smart business owners are putting themselves in customers' shoes.
A good example is Tennis Warehouse in CA. They are willing to to give me a higher level of customer service than my local sporting goods store and started doing it 15 years ago. You could demo 4 racquets for around 10 days with a 2 day return label shipped in the box- just drop the box off at a UPS pickup point. I think it cost me around $20 but it's been s few years- very smart guys.
So many more businesses like this now. The business world is rapidly changing for the better in my opinion.
The reality as I told Ortofon is this is a very small world since the internet. 25 years ago you could have gotten away with QC issues going unreported and someone in Chile not knowing it happened to someone else in another part of the world.I am not trying to damage anyones reputation because I believe Ortofon makes good reasonably priced<albeit high>high performance products.Nowadays its harder for this and that going unnoticed.the internet for now at least gives the powerless some hope.
PS all my stereo stuff is GREY GOODS, haven't bought anything new since the eighties.
BTW ,what happened to SQUARETRADE on the bay.It was the service you bought to protect from stuff /electronics from failing within 6 months or something like that.I once bought a Aragon 8008B,used no warranty and a month later it failed.Squaretrade assisted me with getting that repaired. i guess I dodged responsibility there also by invoking my rights.
Thanks Gary, i was beginning to feel like I'm stupid for buying an item secondhand. And apparently someone else had this happen the pin pulling right out of a 2M Black no less.i guess the lady in Denmark that puts the crazy glue on the pins was having a bad day.To the onhwy61 guy with thousands of posts,GET A LIFE!
Good for you! I'm glad they worked with you on your cartridge. It's good business on their part.
I buy most audio components used and have had very, very few issues. When I purchased new I haven't considered the 'authorized dealer' issue, but I will going forward!
To the OP, you knowingly purchased a used product originally sourced from a non-authorized dealer and then tried to modify/dismantle the product in a way the manufacturer did not intend. Yet, you still want someone else to cover for you. Take some responsibility for your actions.
This unfortunately happened to me too with a Ortofon 2M Black a while back, one of the connection pins pulled right out of the body when removing the leads. I agree that this should not happen - the pins clearly should have some retaining feature machined/pressed into them before they are cast or pushed into the plastic body. When installing or removing the 2M series I'm extra super careful.
I'm gonna drop a few names here, i bought Bob Grahams original tonearm he designed with McIntosh,the Excalibur.He was very helpful and courteous and truly a gentlemen.although others have said contrary.Then theres Mike Elliot of Counterpoint who responds to questions and issues,then theres Victor of BAT,who replies with a email almost as soon as he gets it.Or Klaus of Odyssey who will talk your ear off.People like this I hold in high regard,they get IT!!!They CARE!!!, not the corporate NONENTITIES,that thier idea of customer service is dispatching you with HASTE
It amazes me how some people made it through high school much less college.Third or fourth, well if you figure first hand was the manufacturer,second the distributor,third the retailer,then fourth the purchaser,then yes I'm the first hand person. Maybe I should never buy anything online secondhand even if its next to new. How many times has anyone of us bought something from Amazon and really didn't know the selling party was not an authorized dealer. I can only surmise my entire system is grey goods,my Treshold amp purchased from an unlicensed owner,my BAT preamp again purchased from the same. People,your missing the point.The item had headshell pins practically fall out and the manu. tells me to pound sand.
I own a Transfiguration Proteus sounds wonderful with great service.Using there cartridges for over 20 years with no problems.I would NEVER buy a used cartridge.
Hey Halcro, you obviously didn't read this, I acquired from original purchaser,it was 2 months old and he had a dated reciept attesting to that, So read blog first before making comments like third,or fouth hand
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