I don’t mean to be a party-pooper, and I’ll assume you read my last post. Granted, that pertains to video and not *necessarily* audio.
Nevertheless, the question (please allow some poetic license here) remains that if the Oppo UDP-205 can’t get it right when you tell it not to alter video and simply provide native/raw format, how could anyone expect it to do anything - audio or video - right when you ask it to *process* whatever it is you play back through it?
It is my view at this time that everything (audio and video) about the Oppo UDP-250 is "unfaithful". And we know what happens in that kind of marriage.
I ask everyone to add their voice/text to mine by calling and/or writing to Oppo, multiple times per week, until they can get *source direct* correct.
Tonight I've removed the Modwright 205 and reinstalled the old Oppo 105. Now I knew the mods would widen the gap between the two but, holy crap! The modded 205 ridiculously out performs the old 105. There seems to be a major veil, like someone threw a wet blanket over the speakers.
hopefully the few bugs in the 205 will be sorted out in future firmware updates.
hopefully the few bugs in the 205 will be sorted out in future firmware updates.
I hope so too. However, the firmware "updates" thus far in my opinion are analogous to having a problem with your homes foundation and then hiring a contractor to remodel the upstairs bathroom. As to their latest bug, a black widow spider is also a bug, and that is lethal to humans.
The UDP-205 disappointed me, it does NOT support Tidal, it only streams from a NAS or attached disk. In talking with support they confirmed that Tidal or any other streaming service will not be supported which tells me Oppo has their eye off the market.
As for sound its not much better than my Modwright modified 105 and its definitely not as good as the Schiit Yggdrasil
The UDP-205 disappointed me, it does NOT support Tidal, it only streams from a NAS or attached disk.
At least in the case of not supporting Tidal, it is/was advertised as such. So no harm there because the buyer is aware before hand and can make an educated purchase (or educated choice not to purchase).
The problem I’ve discovered rises to a completely different level of egregiousness. I honestly wonder whether or not at least some of the specs are fraudulent. And while admittedly I’d be surprised if that were the case, I think it behooves Oppo to produce some kind of *third-party* scientific results (not the mere silly professional review bench tests) from a credible lab that can substantiate whether or not the unit actual outputs correct resolution, aspect ratio (which it currently does not in all cases) and audio synchronization among a myriad of other parameters.
If I as an end user was *easily* able to notice an issue in source direct mode, imagine the other problems not readily detectable by human eye/ear.
I bought the Oppo 205 primarily to watch 4K movies with the 7 channel analog outputs. It is fantastic for that purpose and even better with the power supply mod. Finally, with this mod I was able to put in a SR Black fuse. (The standard Oppo 205 design has the fuse soldered in). But, to ever replace that fuse the whole unit has to be taken apart again. So, if the fuse ever blows I will install an external fuse holder like I did with my Oppo 95.
If you are thinking that the Oppo competes with the best of Dacs it does sort of, but the difference is still quite noticeable.
just go to diyaudio.com. On the digital forum, there will be a thread on the first page regarding the upgrades for the 205. It will be on the last page or near it. What are the other upgrades you mentioned?
I can assure everyone I shall not post ad nauseam. Given the total number of posts in this thread already, the number I have posted pales in comparison.
My aim is true, and my sincere objective would hopefully be beneficial to everyone.
What I've posted to date merely describes the particularly egregious symptom of the problem. The truth is, when a company issues software or firmware that causes something that was operable to no longer function correctly, baring deliberate sabotage, the organization does not perform adequate testing. Because restoration is possible - but not allowed by contractual obligation/law - it is imperative that causing something that was operable to no longer function be avoided.
The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few. Please let Oppo know.
From whatever feedback is provided in this thread and another one on the Oppo, I am coming to the conclusion that, while the Oppo is no giant killer, it's sound quality comes close to 80% of what a high end dedicated SACD player can do. Which is not bad, considering that when time comes, you can either sell this player and buy a dedicated player, OR use it as a transport with a superb DAC.
"As for sound its not much better than my Modwright modified 105"
@azbrd,
Comparing stock UDP-205 with Modwright modified 105....Is that a fare comparison?
Given the fact that the UDP-205 has a more advanced digital section I believe it should have been a push at least. The Modwright 105 does not touch the digital section, although Bybee rail does touch the power going to the dacs. The ES9038PRO DACs should have bested the older versions in the 105.
The other major issue with the 205 has been covered in this thread, when used with any Sony screen the HDMI drops randomly IF a HDMI loop (205 -> TV + non-4k-sur-processor->TV) exists, I installed the 205 in the "exact" same configuration as the 105 which did not have this issue. Speaking to Oppo they pointed the finger at Sony claiming they leave all their HDMI ports active even if no signal is present.
I also found it "cheap" that Oppo took away features like Tidal and netfix in the 205 that existed in the 105. Never see a company pull features from a newer product.
I've been using my 105, because of annoying audio problems using the 205 with DirecTV that don't occur with the 105. Having learned about the firmware update, I reinstalled the 205 and updated it. The annoying problems appear to have been fixed in the update.
Everything you say in your first paragraph is true re: that MW does not touch the digital section directly in their mod, excepting improving the AC quality fed to it, both by use of the Bybee rail and also freeing up the stock unit’s power supply from feeding the analog section and output stage (the massive MW external power supply does that).
Comparing the sound quality of my stock Sony 5400ES and my MW 5400ES and assuming that the SQ improvement between the stock 105 vs 205 is similar to redbook vs SACD, I honestly can’t imagine that the stock 205 would be close to the MW105 in SQ. Redbook on the MW is much better sounding than SACD on the stock unit. The stock and MW version are on far different levels of sound quality IME and the improvement is much more than a new-version DAC chip could ever produce IMO.
If using to feed a DAC through one of the digital outputs, there might be minimal difference in SQ between stock and the MW.
I've been using my 105, because of annoying audio problems using the 205 with DirecTV that don't occur with the 105. Having learned about the firmware update, I reinstalled the 205 and updated it. The annoying problems appear to have been fixed in the update.
Perhaps, but at least one *new* annoying problem has been introduced.
Speakers and their interaction with the room are by far the weakest link in any system. Just look at the distortion numbers and frequency response graphs. DAC’s or amplifiers are so much better that the differences between them (if audible at all) are completely overshadowed by the modest quality of even the best speakers. Even a ’modest’ Oppo is lightyears better than the best speakers, so spending more on probably inaudible gains is a waste of money if you can spend it only once.
Can’t argue that the room is the weak point. Investment should be made here as one of the first steps for any serious audio system IMO.
Yet, we can only get the room so good. But that is not the topic of this thread. Much out there already about this.
The recording/mastering process remains the primary determinant of/limitation to sound quality. Study the stages of signal degradation (starting with the microphone) that our media suffers prior to even being presented for reproduction.
Is your point that we should just throw in the towel on component improvement since perfection will never be achieved re: room/speakers? Many current and past speakers are plenty good enough to hear differences in SQ of sources and amplification.
As for "inaudible gains", I feel sure we would all like to read of your real-life personal experiences that support this rather than only unsubstantiated opinion.
Touche, csontos. Valid point and well taken. Don’t think I will move in that direction but will instead play in a different sandbox. Thanks for the nudge :)
I am dead serious. Just look at the frequency response of a decent solid state amplifier with low output impedance: it will be flat within about 0.2 dB across the entire audible spectrum, and often even a bit beyond. Now compare that to some of the best speakers, like my Quad ESL 2805 and my Harbeth P3ESR desktop speaker. They are not flat at all, even if excellent by speaker standards. The explanation is very simple: speakers (like microphones - recordings matter very much as well, but are out of our control) operate at the interface between the electrical and the mechanical, and thus they have mass. Also, they operate in a room that has its own problems of reflections and room modes in particular. Just look at frequency response graphs in a real room compared to in an anechoic chamber or outside in the open air. You could easily have 10 db deviations from the ideal. Hence, when I added a subwoofer to my main system, I quickly decided to get a dsp room eq system as well (an Antimode 8033), which did clean up the sound significantly. But that can also be verified with measurements. As for inaudible gains: I did once participate in a blind test of (excellent and very reputable) amplifiers. I thought I could distinguish them, but I was wrong. I was no better than random. Some time ago I replaced an old Quad 303 amplifier with a more modern Q606-2. The new one did indeed sound better and more dynamic, but only at higher listening levels. What I was hearing was the beneficial effect of bigger power that was not compressing/clipping the dynamic peaks of symphonic music. Real music and classical music in particular often needs big power (those needs can be measured, and you would be surprised - I was too).
It doesn't matter what your current scenario is, it's entirely possible to realize a sq improvement with any upgrade. That it may still not be optimal overall is irrelevant. Does it sound better?
Oppo’s response (after extensive checking with their engineering group and numerous back-and-forth communication) to the source direct problem I pointed out is that "the unit was not operating correctly prior to the latest firmware" and has since been corrected. They go on to write "so like I said last week the videos that are not 4:3 or 16:9 will be sent out as 16:9, and the television or scaler can correct for them."
That response is despite my submitting PROOF (including but not limited to the video file itself and complete specifications of the video) that the very same video that the UDP-205 cannot play with the correct aspect ratio *in any one of its modes* let alone source direct plays perfectly fine and with the correct aspect ratio when played via the USB port on my (pro-calibrated) Samsung UN65KS9800.
I have asked Oppo to have their product management intervene (render feedback at a minimum). In other words, I maintain that the way Oppo currently states the unit should work (in this regard), *should not* be the way the Oppo UDP-205 works in this regard. A video other than 4:3 or 16:9 *should* be output as X:Y, whatever X:Y happens to be, when in source direct mode. Instead, the UDP-205 STRETCHES the video and by their own admission this is by design.
At the moment the only alternative is to send the unit in so that the firmware can be restored back to the WORKING CORRECTLY prior version.
Oh come on man. Stereophile are pros. They have a separate photographer to take pics of their equipment. This (seems) like a regular guys like us. I love audio first and photography next. Can't go that wrong :-)
Nice comeback milpai. :) The reviewer lost me toward the end when he was discussing how his Meridian processor did not have Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD decoding. Best Buy stuff has had that for, what, 10 years now? No wonder he was blown away...
Update from my side - I am going with a 12k loudspeaker with the Oppo UDP-205. This should make a bigger sound upgrade than a $5k loudspeaker and $4-5k SACD player.
Just noticed this thread, as I am getting the 205. Yes, no question that’s the better move as it leaves you lots more room to grow. Heck, for the most part, I play digital music out of a $50 raspberry pi 3 sending toslink out to an Ayre codex and to an Ayre preamp/amp stack and Vandersteen Quattros. Speakers matter so much!
I got my UDP-205 today. This is really a substantial unit. It is heavier than my previous Marantz A-8260. I like it from the get go. Contrary to what I have read, this is NOT a "bright sounding" player at all. If anything, I find it has lots of details. The images are well defined and stable. The bass sounds a bit lean, but ha good definition. The player has great extension at both end of the sound spectrum compared to my existing player. I have put the player on "repeat" for the past couple of hours.
Forgot to mention - the Android app is a pleasure to use. No need to TV for audio playback. I tried USB stick with FLAC, MP3, DSF, etc formats and it works like a charm. Can even change the filter options from this app. I really like the convenience that this app provides.
I’m considering replacing my stock oppo BDP-105 with the 205. Is it a step up in sound quality? Also has anyone tried the “complete mod” from oppomod? It seems pretty reasonable for $850.00 if you get big gains? I will definitely be modding mine when I get it! Just trying to figure out what mod is the best bang for the buck! :)
I have a 205 as my current 4K player, and part time SACD / CD player (long story, mac MVP891 damaged during Home theater rack install). I think it plays great with acoustic and jazz music, reminds me of my old long departed Krell SACD in regards to music. So far, I am content with the sound, and the movies. But, as others have stated, critically listening to the 205 compared to other players, may lead to some consternation when compared to other players which can play at a higher level of performance, albeit, more than likely at a higher price point. If the mod brings it up to spec to other higher priced players, at a modest cost, then its worth it. I must search this mod...I am expecting the dealer to offer me a MCD550 or new MVP901, and whatever comes, it will be fun 5o compare.
@randy-11, Thanks. I think a loudspeaker makes the most difference, if a upgrade is in order. I have read about MQA and have not heard it. So cannot comment on it. But the reason I specify was to make folks know that with the Beta Firmware, this is now an option.
@boisehomes, Instead of trying to replace the 105, check with folks who have added an external DAC to their existing 105 and see if that made a big difference. Remember that with the 105
Isn't it correct that I can’t use DSD with the coax digital out on the oppo to a separate DAC? I have a huge SACD collection and still spin the disc regularly. I thought I read on here that it’s a anti piracy thing or something? Plus I have a nice 4K monitor that I can plug a 205 in too! Just thought it would be easiest to sale my 105 and mod a 205! Let me know if I am understanding this correctly? 2 channel Audio is my main priority as I have an Xbox one that can handle all the 4K stuff if necessary.
@boisehomes, I thought with a firmware update, DSD is possible with 105. But I may be wrong. You can use the 105 to stream DSD to a DAC with HDMI, or create DSD files using 105. You really have lots of options. I am loving my 205, but my future upgrade would be a nice DAC and use the 205 as a transport.
If I could know 100% for certain that I can output DSD from my SACD disc to a nice out board DAC I would absolutely spend 3-4K on a new DAC instead of modding a 205. I have heard conflicting answers about it!
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