They look great but everything sounds terrible with the new speakers and the new JC5.
They should sound good.
Both the new amp and speakers have about 30 hours on them. I dont think it is the speakers because I tried with a 8 year old A23 Parasound amp and they seems to sound a little better. So either things havent broken/burned in yet or I just got some bad equipment. I hear people tell me it takes 100s of hours, etc, but Im worried and dont expect that big of a change over time.
Yeah I hear that all the time…
But every piece of gear I have hooked up sounds pretty darn good right away.
This has been a bad experience for me and I feel like giving up on the audio hobby. $6k on speakers, $6k on an amp yet the acoustic panels on my Sony tv also sound just as good so Im confused.
Selling it all would be an option.
If it is not the speakers, then getting some amps to demo would be wise.
But it could be that the speakers… (Dunno)
It could also be something like wires reversed, or some issue with the crossovers.
You probably need a UMIK and REW or other way to measure things.
Or an experienced shop that can help.
Or disposing of it all.
The last thing you need now is a bunch of people saying you need thousands of dollars worth or power conditioning, or power cables, or multi k$ ICs and speaker cables.
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We’ll your here for advice so I’ll keep it simple.
Yes it should sound good out of the box, and will likely improve with more time… the amp that is. Thirty hours is nothing on a new pair of speakers so they definitely need some time to stretch out. Give the system a couple hundred hours, one to settle end and second so your ears get accustomed to the new speakers. I’m sure the signature from your old JBL’s and new Wharfedale’s is night and day difference. Lastly play with placement as just because the JBL’s sounded great in one spot your new speakers may need tweaked - another spot. At first fire them straight ahead and then play with toe in if needed, but in small increments. Take your time and have someone help you and be patient. Good luck.
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Sounds like lack of synergy.
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Do you know why the Parasound JC5 exploded? I am wondering if there is a problem with your A/C power in your house. Also, I have done this myself, double check your speaker connections and make sure they are in phase.
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The system is either wrong, as in something is out of phase, or just hosed.
If it does it sound pretty darn good, then time will not fix it.
If you think it is your home, then drag it all to another person’s house or garage and then try it there.
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Speakers don't need hundreds of hours to reach peak performance. Do you have another pair of speakers on hand to check the Parasound amp? If there is nothing wrong it should reach optimum temperature in several hours. After that leave it on 24/7. That's what I do with my preamp/amp/DAC. I listen every day so I want the electronics running warm.
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Speakers don't need hundreds of hours to reach peak performance. Do you have another pair of speakers on hand to check the Parasound amp? If there is nothing wrong it should reach optimum temperature in several hours. After that leave it on 24/7. That's what I do with my preamp/amp/DAC. I listen every day so I want the electronics running warm.
@jasonbourne52
Does it change much from the first time you turned it on, until a while later?
Most of my experience has shown it to be subtle, and sometimes to point of not being able to notice a difference.
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FWIW, my personal experience is that speakers definitely sound better with break in, usually a good 100 hours. Just play them at a decent volume for a few weeks and re-asses. Good luck.
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If you purchased the amp new, why didn't Parasound send you a new JC5 in a sealed box?
I think they are a great company, just don't understand the above.
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Regarding speaker polarity, If possible, open the binding post box and check the connections inside. I discovered one of my Klipsch Forte 4s was wired incorrectly INSIDE the speaker. Good luck.
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I would send the Wharfedales back while under trial period. They will not get better, it's like the combination of lack of synergy and your ears.
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@jetter not only that, they should have paid for the blown speaker
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Sorry @audioman2015
I agree with others that if it doesn’t sound very good right off the bat, something else is likely to be wrong.
This is every audiophile’s ultimate nightmare, and just NOT a good look for Parasound right now. The open box replacement amp is now suspect. And your poor JBL’s :( Get this man a new set of JC1+.
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Agree - at a high level anyway- with Holmz. regardless of whether there is a benefit to break-in over time, for electronics, it's icing on the cake. I design the stuff. I hear brand new equipment literally all the time. Its fine. Maybe not optimal but fine.
Speakers do require some break in, or did, since mechanical bits need to break in (mechanical stuff, sometimes its glue and other stiffeners, etc. - not my thing).
Warm up is quite critical for some amps but should be complete within 24 hours (if always on) and the vast majority accomplished within an hour or three.
I would check hook ups. the other day I sat down at a friend’s with a prototype and immediately said "somethings out of phase". It was an interior connector on my preamp - my fault. But blatant. He missed it.
I’d also consider something just plain defective. But what?
Agree the litany of conditioners, wires, and magic incantations - even if they sometimes matter- are not at the heart of first order problems.
Start sleuthing.
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Who would buy either Klipsch or Wharfdale speakers in the first place. Maybe for home theater.
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Wouldn't be audiogon if we didn't have several thread derailments including elitism 🙄
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@audioman2015
I’m sorry you had the amp take out your speaker as it blew! Like everyone else, I don’t understand why they didn’t give you a totally new amp and some coin toward a new set of speakers!
When I got my KEF’s they sounded sharp and harsh in the upper midrange. I played tunes about 15 hours a day for a couple of weeks and the sharp edge and the harshness is gone.
All the best!
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Did you demo the speakers or buy them based on specs or good reviews? I you did and they sounded good on whatever amp you demoed them on, I'd look at the amp. Otherwise if you didn't hear them before purchase, speakers, including good ones, can sound very different and perhaps you really need the sound your JBLs gave you.
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If you also have any new interconnects or speaker cables, try swapping your old ones in and see if that is the problem. Some brands of cables are notorious for long break-in times.
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Once confirmed everything is hooked up correctly. I would turn it on a medium to highish volume and let it rip for 24 straight hours. At the end of that it’s pretty much is what it is. Not saying there will not be small changes over time but nothing substantial. Do you keep the Parasound turned on all the time?
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Who would buy either Klipsch or Wharfdale speakers in the first place. Maybe for home theater.
What an asinine statement.
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@ozzy62 That particular person makes a lot of those. But hey it takes all kinds.
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Just curious if Parasound ever shared what happened to make the amp blow up? They seemed to be able to figure out it wasn’t your fault so thinking they must at least have an idea of what failed.
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What an asinine statement.
@ozzy62 - I have not heard those speakers, but assuming that if the amp is working correctly, then maybe there is some credence to Larry’s comment ?
If the OP had, or had not, heard the speakers before buying them… then it could/couldn’t be the speakers.
They sort of need to run their amp on some known speakers,
Or their speakers on a known amp… in order to detangle the mess of not knowing what is at play here.
Ideally they do this in another person’s come, so the AC cable and power conditioning crown, and room treatment brigade, do not derail the OP down another rabbit hole of cost and pate-rubbing.
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Thirty hours is nothing on a new pair of speakers so they definitely need some time to stretch out.
I will continue to break them in cautiously.
Do you know why the Parasound JC5 exploded? I am wondering if there is a problem with your A/C power in your house. Also, I have done this myself, double check your speaker connections and make sure they are in phase.
They don’t know the root cause but one capacitor completely blew along with some other components. My guess is one of the mosfets failed and dumped full line voltage into the speaker since these kinds of amps are direct coupled. I heard a pop and a second later the amp exploded. Speaker drivers smelled like they were burned. Resistance measurement showed millions of ohms on the speaker. It’s completely gone. There are no power issues at my place. I have 3 other audio systems working just fine. Other electronics on the same circuit are fine. Speakers are connected correctly. System worked great for 4 months before amp exploded out of nowhere while listening at low to mid volumes driving an 8 ohm speaker.
Speakers don’t need hundreds of hours to reach peak performance. Do you have another pair of speakers on hand to check the Parasound amp? If there is nothing wrong it should reach optimum temperature in several hours. After that leave it on 24/7. That’s what I do with my preamp/amp/DAC. I listen every day so I want the electronics running warm.
The original JC5 was only 4 months old (purchased new from authorized vendor) so I did not try it on the other speakers. I was happy with that setup and didn’t need to try other speakers. With the replacement JC5, I did try other speakers and it is difficult for me to tell since all other amps I have are also Parasound but the older models. They sound different than the JC5 so I cannot compare but I can tell you that the magic is gone. I am playing my system more but I am scared to leave it on all night or while I am at work due to the fear of it exploding again. It’s a phobia now since it happened once. This is the first time an amp has exploded so I fear that but I will leave it playing all the time while I am at home and awake to get some hours on it.
Does it change much from the first time you turned it on, until a while later?
Not any different than my other audio systems. It improves slightly in 1-2 hours but I still find the sound to be lacking by quite a bit in clarity and smoothness. It sounds like something is clogged and not fully open. It sounds a bit gritty as well.
Agree the litany of conditioners, wires, and magic incantations - even if they sometimes matter- are not at the heart of first order problems.
Conditioners, cables are all the same from previous system. They are all working great so they are not the cause of the bad sound.
I’m sorry you had the amp take out your speaker as it blew! Like everyone else, I don’t understand why they didn’t give you a totally new amp and some coin toward a new set of speakers!
When I got my KEF’s they sounded sharp and harsh in the upper midrange. I played tunes about 15 hours a day for a couple of weeks and the sharp edge and the harshness is gone.
Thanks - that is what I don’t understand. They assured me unit was new but "inspected" and expect an open box. Not sure why they couldn’t have just gave me a brand new sealed unit. They did not tell me what the inspection was for. I was humble that they were going to send me another unit so I didn’t ask additional questions. That is a long burn in time for your KEFs. If I compare your time to mine, I’m just at the beginning. I do not plan to escalate this or ask additional questions or try to return items as I am tired and just want to move on and accept the downgrade in sound. Perhaps in the future if funds are available, I can invest in equipment from other brands.
Did you demo the speakers or buy them based on specs or good reviews? I you did and they sounded good on whatever amp you demoed them on, I’d look at the amp. Otherwise if you didn’t hear them before purchase, speakers, including good ones, can sound very different and perhaps you really need the sound your JBLs gave you.
No, it was solely based on video and written reviews plus the looks (which I adore). I think there is something wrong or things haven’t burnt in enough but a lower cost A23 amp which is many years old to me sounds better than the JC5 on these speakers. The JC5 is more authoritative but overall the sound on the A23 sounds better and more normal. I do not have any other good amp at the same level as a JC5 to compare.
Do you keep the Parasound turned on all the time?
No - I fear of another explosion. When it happens once, it adds the fear into a person. Sparks / smoke / entire place smelled of burnt electronics. I do not wish for this to happen again ever, especially if I am not home.
I have 5 other Parasound products that I am very happy with but 4 out of the 5 are amps that I purchased 7-8 years ago. The original JC5 sounded great so I believe in their products. Please do not mistaken anything I have written as anything against Parasound. I am thankful that they honored the warranty to whatever company polices they use. I was deciding do I even want to list the vendor but I did because I think it is important as this thread can provide good information.
My plan is to let them keep burning in and to live with it for the time being but I tell you, my basement system which costs 8X lower in price which consists of big box store bookshelf speakers and an integrated amp to me sounds better.
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Just a little story here; I have been running my system in my bedroom literally 24/7 for almost a year- I have issues- Harbeth 30.1's I bought new in '17 and a Peachtree Nova 300 and Bluesound Node just streaming. The other night, POP, everything seemed to jell and bloom and grow and what -ever fall into place sound wise. I swear this happened, after 5 years. Added power cords and etc recently and whatever. Well, well well you can never tell; you just gotta poke around. Try to stay Zen Man...
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Did you demo the speakers or buy them based on specs or good reviews? I you did and they sounded good on whatever amp you demoed them on, I’d look at the amp. Otherwise if you didn’t hear them before purchase, speakers, including good ones, can sound very different and perhaps you really need the sound your JBLs gave you.
No, it was solely based on video and written reviews plus the looks (which I adore). I think there is something wrong or things haven’t burnt in enough but a lower cost A23 amp which is many years old to me sounds better than the JC5 on these speakers. The JC5 is more authoritative but overall the sound on the A23 sounds better and more normal. I do not have any other good amp at the same level as a JC5 to compare.
Women wear lipstick and nice dresses, and the keeper rate is about 50%.
That is after the ones that were discarded before marriage.
I would only put looks up the list as something to avoid the haus-boss getting upset over.
(Feng Shei, and that stuff.)
It could be that the flowery prose was more figurative than literal.
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My speakers took about 3-4 months to fully break in. Yours might need more time to loosen up. Good luck!
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Seriously, I would be so frustrated I’d simply return the speakers and ask for a refund on the amp. Then start all over again with different brands. When I’ve had new speakers, they’ve sounded good from the start.
You’ve paid way too much, wasted time, and incurred collateral losses (JBLs) to get sound you’re not happy with. Make some moves while you’re within your bargaining windows. The retailer and Parasound should consider this thread.
Maybe even consider a tube amp! There’s lots of guys afraid of tube amps but they’re actually extremely reliable and you just had a well-revered SS amp blow up your speakers?
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Maybe I missed it but what JBL speaker did you have? You mention a tower and you replaced them with a stand mount so maybe that's playing into your sound difference? My buddy has the JBL 1400 Arrays and yeah that would be a big step backwards going to the Wharfdales.
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Some speakers don’t perform well with high power amplifiers, though I wouldn’t expect that to be the case with Elysians.
Sometimes when I think something is amiss with my system or that it doesn’t sound good, I later realize I was just having an off day or in a bad mood.
Also, some of the older Parasound products actually perform better in bench tests than the new stuff. For example, the original A21 is quieter than the JC5. That’s probably not your issue but a possibility. I know I prefer the sound of my 20-year-old, beat-up A21 to the A21Plus.
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@holmz
+1 agree %100 on each point.
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I think @sunshdw is closest to the answer here.
Wharfdales would seem to me to be the polar opposite of JBLs. Aficionados of either of these speakers brands are unlikely to love the other. Synergy, break-in or electronics are not the problem here. Expectations are.
My suggestion would be to try some different speakers or a new (or preowned) pair of JBLs.
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