I’ve been asked to evaluate/beta test some new fuses that will be coming out soon. I should have them as soon as this coming Saturday.
At this point:
1. I cannot reveal the name of the manufacturer of the fuses. 2. I do not know what the retail price will be. 3. I do not know what the name of the fuse will be.
For comparison purposes, I have a full complement of SR Orange fuses that can be used throughout the system. I have one QSA Yellow fuse now being used in my ARC-PH8 phono stage, with another one to arrive soon to be used in my ARC REF-75se.
I’ll be comparing the SR Orange fuses, and the QSA fuses, with the new prototype fuses. I’ll also be using the ears of three of my well-seasoned audiophile friends, as well as my own to make the evaluations. These guys are all truth-tellers that I have full confidence in.
According to the manufacturer, these new fuses are real game-changers, so stay tuned.
@cerberus79 I rarely post anything here. I did so this
time because I had direct experience on the topic and reported it in a
factual and non judgmental fashion. My reward was to be called a lier by
one member and told I was in the wrong hobby by another ( I have been
in this hobby for 49 years ). I am and always have been in this hobby
for the enjoyment of music. I once got into a discussion with Geof Kait
on the directionality of fuses and realized
You/we are
lucky GK has disappeared (or been banned) he was a real comic piece of
work but fitted in well in these types of threads, and his website is
really out there https://www.machinadynamica.com/machina5.htm best one is the pebbles.
As for your Maggies I had quite a bit to do with them owning the big Tympanies also, before going on to big ESL’s.
cerberus79A
few months ago I purchased a used pair of speakers from another Agon
member. To my surprise all the fuses were Orange fuses. I listened to
them and then to satisfy my curiosity I replaced them with ordinary buss
fuses and could not hear a difference. I did this test with a bunch of
friends and neither I or them could hear a difference.
As
you stated no difference in sound whether 10cent Bussman fuses were in
or $150 SR Orange were in, to yourself or when the guys were around to
do the A/B with.
cerberus79 Has the purpose of a
fuse been lost ? How it is designed to work ? By design there is no
directionality in a fuse. it is simply designed to open in an
overcurrent situation. If it was directional in relation to the current
passing through it would be a diode
Same thing I say to them, if it’s directional then it’s trying to be a diode, and that NOT good in either direction!
But
I can tell your Maggies will sound a touch better with just a piece of
copper wire soldered lightly outside of the fuse clamps and no fuses.
This makes them vulnerable to an amp blowing and going dc, as you know
having electronic knowledge background, but no more so than any other
speaker would have no dc protection either.
To those non technical thinking of purchasing these $$$ fuses. Just save your $150+ and do this instead.
A fuse: 1: two end caps 2: short piece of fuse wire connecting the two end caps through a glass tube (that’s all she wrote).
To those "non technical" members that are interested in "maybe" wasting their money, do not listen to the non-technical, listen to the technicians of this industry that design the audio products you have and listen to. AND YOU WON"T SEE THEM ON THREADS LIKE THIS AGREEING WITH WHAT SAID HERE ABOUT THE SOUND IMPROVMENT DETAILS AND AC FUSE PLACEMENT DIRECTION, EVER!!! Just clean and tighten your fuse holder and re-new your fuse (if old) with a good quality 50cent Bussman, Littlefuse or similar.As with "many switch-on surges" they do deteriorate, bend, stretch and get crusty with electrolysis formations on their fusible wire elements before they give out, as these pics show of a fuse wire element ageing over time show. https://ibb.co/9NbTwqK (even the $$$ boutique ones will age just as much also)
Over the decades, I got down to Rubber Soul, Revolver and Sgt. Pepper - largely for the technical achievement. Geoff Emerick was a freaking genius! Geoff Emerick - Wikipedia
oregonpapa "The new prototype fuses arrived in yesterday’s mail. For last night’s listening session, I replaced the SR Orange fuse in the line stage with one of the new prototypes. The results? ... It killed the SR Orange fuse in every respect. There was a BIG improvement in overall clarity from top to bottom. And the midrange ... the midrange ... Zowie!
So transparent. Of course it did, that was going to be a given
oregonpapa "I have Mister Golden Ears coming over tomorrow to take a listen. He's a very critical listener."
Really!! you said "It killed the SR Orange fuse in every respect" so then why do you need Mr Golden Ears to convince you of what your hearing.
jetter "It’s a little ironic. The mantra used to be that the improvement in sound from the addition of audiophile fuses was the equivalent of buying a new component."
This is all that one needs to know
cerberus79 A few months ago I purchased a used pair of speakers from another Agon member. To my surprise all the fuses were Orange fuses. I listened to them and then to satisfy my curiosity I replaced them with ordinary buss fuses and could not hear a difference. I did this test with a bunch of friends and neither I or them could hear a difference. Kind of just says it all doesn't it?
To those non technical thinking of purchasing these $$$ fuses. Just save your $150+ and do this instead.
A fuse: 1: two end caps 2: short piece of fuse wire connecting the two end caps through a glass tube (that’s all she wrote).
To those "non technical" members that are interested in "maybe" wasting their money, do not listen to the non-technical, listen to the technicians of this industry that design the audio products you have and listen to. AND YOU WON"T SEE THEM ON THREADS LIKE THIS AGREEING WITH WHAT SAID HERE ABOUT THE SOUND IMPROVMENT DETAILS AND AC FUSE PLACEMENT DIRECTION, EVER!!! Just clean and tighten your fuse holder and re-new your fuse (if old) with a good quality 50cent Bussman, Littlefuse or similar.As with "many switch-on surges" they do deteriorate, bend, stretch and get crusty with electrolysis formations on their fusible wire elements before they give out, as these pics show of a fuse wire element ageing over time show. https://ibb.co/9NbTwqK (even the $$$ boutique ones will age just as much also)
Rubber Soul has long been my favorite of theirs, but Revolver is mighty fine too. Their sound changed quite a bit between those two albums; George and John switched from Gretsch and Rickenbacker guitars to matching Epiphone Casinos, Paul from a Hofner bass to a Rickenbacker, and all of them from Vox amps to Fender. Ringo's drum sound changed a lot too, from small and muffled to big and boomy. I also heard Abbey Road made the switch from tube electronics to solid state between the two albums, but that may just be myth.
oregonpapa (from 8 posts up and on the previous page, which is how far back you have to go to get past the people prone to rudely wrecking and sidetracking substantive discussions because they are too lazy to start their own -
MC >>>
" Anyway, whatever it is and however it works the results are freaking fantastic. I put six of those little Stone things on my Raven last night and it was absofreakinglutely insane!"
See ... that’s what I mean. Just when we think we have it nailed, along comes another product to prove how wrong we were. That’s what the prototype fuses are doing here.
On the "stones" --- I know they come in two packs and that there are three varieties. So, are you using all three varieties or all the same? Also, where are you placing them in order to get the best effects?
Oh, and by the way, the question came up by another A’goner via phone call who wanted to know if I could see inside the prototype fuses. The answer is no. The glass is completely black and can’t be seen through.
Thanks ...
Frank
One of each. Wrote it up on the QSA thread. Unlike the disruptors above I like to try and stick to the subject. Since you are the OP and asked about this, the way they are described on the site was sort of Red warm/bass, Blue midrange, Clear extension. My system is beautifully balanced so I figured one of each- and it worked out great!
Haven't had them long enough to know where is best, but they are all on The Blackhawk now running in a line across the transformer cover. Transformers are great places for stuff like this (Mat, eCard, etc) probably because they are mostly fields anyway.
Might try moving them around a little tonight. Then again maybe not. I am pretty good at finding places that work, but then when the results are so enjoyable it is hard for me to do anything but sit there and enjoy it, you know?
Besides, that's what I have you for! You gave me the speaker idea, speaker cable idea, and now the fuse, there are a few tricks in the old dog yet, eh?
"... there are a few tricks in the old dog yet, eh?"
I’m finding that old age isn’t what it is cracked up to be, Chuck. I now know why so many old people are grumpy and yell at kids to get the hell off of their lawns.
The audio system and my music are one of the things that keep me going. In addition to audio, I also have a terrific collection of books to occupy my mind. Not much fiction, just a lot of great wordsmiths and a lot of history. It is important in the latter days of life to maintain one’s interest in new things. It keeps the mind active and sharp, even if the body is falling apart.
Modern technology is really amazing. When I was a kid, I thought Dick Tracy’s two-way watch was totally far-fetched. Now look ... two years ago, at the age of 81, I had some DNA testing done and discovered that I had an entire family living 3000 miles away in Pennslyvania. My father, who was killed when I was seven, had been married before he met my mother. All of these years, I had no idea at all. I was shocked to learn that I had two half brothers and a half-sister. My eldest daughter, her husband and I, flew to Pennsylvania to meet everyone. The brothers and sister had already passed on. I missed my second half brother by only six months. There were tons of nieces, nephews and cousins to meet though. So, though all of these years, I had a huge Italian family back east and had no clue. The food they prepared for us each evening was spectacular. All homemade Italian cuisine made by total experts ... my nieces and nephews.
Because of the Internet, and particularly because of this site, I have Internet friends all across the country who I keep in contact with via texts and phone calls. Who knew? I used to think that flying a kite on a windy day was high-tech. Now we carry high-powered computers in our shirt pockets and call them "phones."
With all of this in mind, I have to laugh at the fuse/tweak naysayers who disbelieve those of us who know the score. They are still in awe of Dick Tracy watches.
Excuse me for rambling. Those stones sound interesting. I thought they came in two packs. Are you using only three stones, or are you using six? :-)
oregonpapa" The new prototype fuses arrived in yesterday’s mail. For last night’s listening session, I replaced the SR Orange fuse in the line stage with one of the new prototypes. The results? ... It killed the SR Orange fuse in every respect. There was a BIG improvement in overall clarity from top to bottom. And the midrange ... the midrange ... Zowie!"
So transparent. Of course it did, that was going to be a given
oregonpapa "I have Mister Golden Ears coming over tomorrow to take a listen. He’s a very critical listener."
Really!! you said "It killed the SR Orange fuse in every respect" So then why do you need Mr Golden Ears to convince you of what your hearing.
jetter "It’s a little ironic. The mantra used to be that the improvement in sound from the addition of audiophile fuses was the equivalent of buying a new component."
This is all that one needs to know
cerberus79 "A few months ago I purchased a used pair of speakers from another Agon member.To my surprise all the fuses were Orange fuses. I listened to them and then to satisfy my curiosity I replaced them with ordinary buss fuses and could not hear a difference. I did this test with a bunch of friends and neither I or them could hear a difference. Kind of just says it all doesn’t it?"
To those non technical thinking of purchasing these $$$ fuses. Just save your $150+ and do this instead. A fuse: 1: two end caps 2: short piece of fuse wire connecting the two end caps through a glass tube (that’s all she wrote).
To those "non technical" members that are interested in "maybe" wasting their money, do not listen to the non-technical, listen to the technicians of this industry that design the audio products you have and listen to. AND YOU WON"T SEE THEM ON THREADS LIKE THIS AGREEING WITH WHAT SAID HERE ABOUT THE SOUND IMPROVMENT DETAILS AND AC FUSE PLACEMENT DIRECTION, EVER!!!
Just clean and tighten your fuse holder and re-new your fuse (if old) with a good quality 50cent Bussman, Littlefuse or similar. As with "many switch-on surges" they do deteriorate, bend, stretch and get crusty with electrolysis formations on their fusible wire elements before they give out, as these pics show of a fuse wire element ageing over time show.
Wow that is some story. My grandfather was a sharecropper. In the hierarchy of human misery sharecropper is one step up from slave. Brutal life, apparently too much for him, he ran off when my dad was still a child. Dad was so ashamed of being a sharecroppers son I never knew any of this until after he passed. Rural Florida, okay, it was a swamp. Last time down there grandma went out back and got a bullfrog for dinner with her slingshot. I couldn't even see what she was aiming at but she nailed it first try. Long time ago forget the details but pretty sure it wasn't frog legs Italian style.
Yeah they come 2 to a pack. So six all together. All 6 are on the Raven. Real smooth and natural, just like what you describe about your new fuses. The noise floor with all the stuff I have now is so low it is spooky the stuff you can hear.
@mllercarbon do you have a link to these stones? I have a Blackhawk Mk3.1 too. Have you compared the stones to MiG 2.0s? My Blackhawk is also on an SR Tranquility Basik. Thanks.
Fuses make a difference, everything matters and makes a
difference. The audiophile fuses are there to do the least damage, well
less damage than a cheap standard fuse anyway.
It
is amazing though that the improvements are reported to be so so ...
huge. I can hear the change in direction of a standard fuse in my system
and hear the effect of replacing said fuse with a better one so decided
to listen to what must then be the best 'fuse' possible: no fuse. The
amp I tried this experiment in now runs permanently fuseless. The zero
fuse betters all others I have tried but the difference between standard
and no fuse is not as great as some here make out!
Take
oregonpapa and his reporting of everything PPT. Whenever he added paste
to a connection he reported a lower noise floor and then describes the
sound of this particular pasting and then with the next paste of
whatever hears another amazing lowering of the noise floor and on and on
until it reaches the point of defying credulity. It is from his
persuasive enthusing that I bought some PPT products. First thing I did
was place 2 mats inside my breaker panel. Over a few days the sound
became progressively worse, by which I mean the sound hardened up and
took on a screechy brash upper register. Things did not improve when I
started treating contacts with the paste.
The
number of times he reported 'a lowering of the noise floor' seems
impossible to me. The noise must be so low now that there is nothing
anymore. The moral of this story is to perhaps treat with a little caution this gentleman's gushing effusive praise.
"The moral of this story is to perhaps treat with a little caution this gentleman's gushing effusive praise."
I'm sorry you didn't get much out of the PPT products. You are one of the very few that were disappointed that I know of. Everyone else raved about the products and they still are by the way. I noticed that you haven't listed your system in your profile. Are you using any Bybee products? Are you using any magnets in the system ... anywhere?
"Yes! the Pioneer Elite 59-AVi is a very fine player. Will you trade out any Fuse(s) in that spinner ?"
I took the lid off and there is no fuse that can be removed. Before I sent the player to Grover, I compared it to my Grover-modified Pioneer Elite DV-05. The DV-05 was better by a large margin. When I got the 59-AVi back from Grover ... Wow! It walked all over the DV-05 ... and also my tube ARC-CD7se.
"I'm 55, and hope to someday reach your age, still enjoying this hobby and having the clarity of mind you do Sir."
Thanks.
One thing I'm really thankful for is that the hearing is still really good. My granddaughter is a speech pathologist, and she has checked me out. She says that she's astounded at how well I hear for my age. The mind is still sharp, the hearing is still good, but the body is going in the crapola. Some things that help: I read challenging books, do a lot of crosswords, listen to a lot of music, fool with my record collection a lot ... AND all of my friends are 20-30 years younger than I. That makes a difference.
We live in an age where people my age become invisible to the younger set. It's too bad because they could learn a lot from older folks. We not only know history, but we have also lived it. Unfortunately, some of that history is doing a U-turn and is about to bite us in the ass. Most young people are oblivious to it. Too bad for them. They will be paying dearly.
If someone believes that changing power cords will make a difference, y not a fuse? It is much more effective than changing power cords as it locates even closer to the internal hookups.
The problem is that it has too much influence on sound, its really hard to find a perfectly balance one without altering the signature.
So far i've been tried
Brimar, ph zero, hifi-tuning cardas, supreme, sr blue and orange.
I ended up by using the Schurter the most and only keep 1 sr orange.
@Frank, I use neither Bybee nor magnets. When I received my paste it was dry and hard and the little make up brush had been used before by somebody because the bristles were stiff. The instructions that came with the kit claimed the paste had a shelf life of 6 months. I emailed Tim about this, he replied that it has a shelf life of 5 years. When I queried the discrepancy he again replied that there was a mix-up with the instructions. He said to just soak the brush in some water until soft.
I then asked him if I was to believe that the printers took it upon themselves to say 6 months. That won't happen and if it did was there no proof reading before publication?
I bought the bundle when first advertised because I thought it might be promotional only for a limited time. I was still building/renovating the listening room and opened the TC pack about a year after receiving it. I was not happy to then find the paste was out of date especially when nowhere on their site was it mentioned that there was a shelf life.
I was now dealing with Krissy who to compensate sent me 4 mats free.
@darkfrank, let me suggest you try, only temporarily, bypassing the fuse of concern with a solid copper rod or a jumper wire soldered across the fuse. This will now be your reference, that is to say it can't be improved upon for purity. Once your ear/brain has heard this then try and find the fuse that gets closest to your 'reference'
This is what I did and selected a SR Blue but it was not long before I bypassed the fuse, not with a jumper wire across the fuse but by soldering a wire across the fuse terminals.
Let me be clear, I am not recommending this other than as an experiment.
Hm ... that's strange. I have several tubes of TC left. I used it a little bit about a month ago and it is still viable. I haven't put it into the freezer as Tim suggested though. I've kept it at room temperature. Based upon what you wrote above, it appears that you never tried the TC. Is that correct?
So Krissy sent you four mats to compensate, and you heard no difference in the system while using the mats? I don't know what to say. The mats certainly work at my place, and in other systems, I know about. On the other hand, I know Ozzy put a couple of mats up for sale. Maybe he had the same experience as you.
The reason I asked about magnets, is that I have a friend who has magnets everywhere, including in his speaker cables, his ICs, and his PCs. He's taken all of the PPT stuff out of his system because he claims they aren't compatible with magnets.
If you are within driving distance, you're welcome to come over for a listening session. You'll discover that there's been no hyperbole coming from my keyboard. The system really does sound as good as described.
Why does everyone assume that bypassing the the fuse is going to get the best sound possible? Whatever the audiophile fuses are doing, whether it is something that we currently understand and/or can measure, or not, why can’t it improve the sound beyond bypassing the fuse?
@mllercarbon do you have a link to these stones? I have a Blackhawk Mk3.1 too. Have you compared the stones to MiG 2.0s? My Blackhawk is also on an SR Tranquility Basik. Thanks.
Quantum definition: a discrete quantity of energy proportional in magnitude to the frequency of the radiation it represents.
It is obvious these guys who are making and selling wire and fuses in warehouses are employing the most modern sophisticated equipment to give those little ole fuses a good tunneling in the old quantum.
I wonder why neither QSA or the Frank prototype don’t mention anything quantum? What can be better than quantum? Is quantum that was everything not long ago now so yesterday?
The pace of fuse development is so exhilarating, just breathtaking.
Frank, I would like to take you up on that visit but it's one hell of a long drive from Ireland :-)
I have used the paste and at one stage had 8 mats in various places, sometimes 2 or 3 together under my Oppo, sometimes one under each component. I wanted what for me was a rather large outlay for something essentially arcane and nebulous to bring me great pleasure but what it effectively did, notwithstanding the more dynamic bass and great detail this provided, is to render my collection of digital files I listen to, to about 20%! Prior to the PPT products I was listening to about 60% and enjoying the experience.
I have 3 mats in use now, 1 under my Wadia DAC, 1 under my DIY power amp and 1 under the computer. The mats have been moved around, completely removed and I still can't get rid of the brash unlistenable upper midrange.
By process of elimination I have to asume its the TC responsible or out of date TC
@oregonpapa "I’ll know more when my third regular audiophile friend comes up next Sunday".
rsf507 You mean you need another person to tell you what to hear? If you don't know then this is all a joke!
Not just a joke rsf, but a very well organized way taking advantage of the electronically gullible here.
Cheers George
millercarbon For anyone with an open mind willing to learn let me just say Frank is the real deal.
You’ve got to be kidding, more like the new real deal geoffkiat
Members here wondering who geoffkiat is, well lets just say his views on audio match. Just look at his avatar and you’ll know one of them is the founding father of audio voodoo https://forum.audiogon.com/users/geoffkait
you’ve made your skepticism about these products, Frank, and his motives, very clear. Do you need to go on and on, like George?
tommy, actually my name is George also. It may come of a surprise for you to know that I am using a good number of e mats and e cards in my system. They stay in my rig because I think they are working great, but that is my subjective opinion, because with them it isn't on or off, it takes time for them to reach full speed.
That's all that I wish to say because I do not believe in many of the things you do. Regarding Frank, I know he is and always will be a dyed in the wool salesperson, just as I am and have been a Certified Public Accountant for ions. He sells, I ask questions, it's in our blood.
"process of elimination I have to assume its the TC responsible or out of date TC"
The TC was an interesting product. Upon application, it seemed to go through phases. For example, I put a ton of the stuff into my power conditioner. I used almost an entire tube to do the job. I even did the entire inside of the lid. The result? I entirely lost the mid-bass. I called Tim at the time and told him about it. He said just wait and let it cure. Well, it was pretty bad for about three weeks, at which time, everything came back into focus and was better than ever. I’ve described the whole scenario in one of the TC threads. At no time did I ever detect a "brash, unlistenable upper mid-range" as you suggest. I’m at a loss in trying to figure out what happened in your case ... unless you didn’t leave the TC on long enough to allow it to cure.
I’m curious ... was the TC in your tube hard (set up)? Or, did it come out a silver color instead of the normal dark grey color?
So you have eight mats and are only using three? Try taking the one out from under the computer, and get some clear packing tape, and tape two mats onto the back of each speaker right in line with the drivers. See what that does, if anything. Mats taped to the speakers have done good things for me.
Regarding Frank, I know he is and always will be a dyed-in-the-wool salesperson, just as I am and have been a Certified Public Accountant for ions. He sells, I ask questions, it’s in our blood.
I couldn’t have said it any better myself, jetter. :-)
Do you remember the comments I’ve made in the past on the basic personality types? That is definitely in play here, for sure.
Question - Do the PPT Emats lose their potency or go bad over time?
I was one of the first to get them, and I have a ton of them. They seem to still be doing the job for me. At this point, I have seventeen PPT E-Plus Mats covering my floor-standing speakers. I wouldn't think of taking them off. Yes, they look really weird, but then, I don't look at the speakers, I listen to them. Putting the mats on the speakers really improved the SQ by a large margin. I know others did the same to perhaps a lesser degree and reported good results from doing so.
I love those things! When you told me about the speakers I thought that was nuts. They would have to work on the drivers, the magnet or something like that, and from so far away? But it worked. Just one. Ugly as hell though so....
Removed the drivers, cut some Mats up into strips, zip tied them along side the wires and around the driver magnets. Improvement? My wife who hardly pays any attention asked what made it sound so good? She doesn’t know one word of audiophile lingo but she knows when it sounds more like real natural music.
Then you told me about speaker cables. So I laid one Mat on each speaker cable. Sure enough. Now I know to cut em up, made em into tubes, they work so good that way!
I’m sure you remember Frank, this is for the others. Recently what with all the moving around for Chuxpona we wound up with some of these laying around and sometimes like last night I will put another one or two back on a wire somewhere. The tubes I made are different sizes so depending on what we are talking about could be anywhere from 1/3 of a Mat to 1/6 or sometimes even less. Even this small amount, still very easy to hear. To answer the question then no, it does not go bad over time.
When are we going to learn who the fuse manufacturer is, and how to acquire these fuses if we want to? Thanks.
Just as soon as I'm given the go-ahead I'll post the information. I do know, however, that they are shooting for a release date next month in mid-October. I still don't know what the price will be though. I'm hoping that they will be priced competitively so that more audio hobbyists can enjoy what they do.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
