New MOFI speaker (Andrew Jones)

Interesting the folks at Stereophile have a picture of these speakers on their side?? From a listening test. Height critical I guess. 

I think it's more about the quality control of the product rather than the fact it's made in China. I own a Holo Audio May and Serene KTE and the build quality and quality of parts is amazing. Smart companies having products made in China supervise and oversee the entire process to make sure the products are being manufactured correctly to their standards.

I’ve never seen any speaker get the immediate drooling support and hype like this speaker. Andrew Jones is maybe the only speaker design superstar. Regarding China, that boat has sailed as an amazing amount of high end audio stuff is made there, and I doubt that’s going to stop anytime soon (although if China invades Taiwan things could get weird fast). Chinese made PS Audio Aspen for $28,499 anybody? Is that speaker harder to manufacture than a car? My Heresy IIIs listed for 3 grand some years ago (Capitol Records edition...got those for 1500 bucks as an "open box" item) ands the IVs are close to that now, and they’re NOT made in China...nor is Schiit stuff (wall warts only it seems). So, good factory supervision is required in China, Arkansas, California, and Texas.

If anyone is in Chicagoland, Abt in Glenview has them on display in their showroom.

@jcoehler , I wish I was one of them telling you about it right now.😄

Thanks for the update @nonoise 

Looking forward to more insight from actual owners on their experience. 

Just got off the phone with Music Direct and they had the pleasure of Andrew Jones demonstrating the Source Point 10 for their employees and that he was one of the most wonderful people they ever met. The rep I spoke with was in the same boat as I: he has Wharfedale Litton speakers stands (loves them as much as I do) and thought they could work but AJ said that despite the excellent off axis response, they'd still be too low at 17" in height. 

Turns out that 20" is what Mofi is going with and AJ said that is fine for the speakers.

All the best,
Nonoise

I read the Stereophile Source Point 10 review (couldn't help myself, grabbed a subscription).

Yup, they measured quite well.  Both the measurements and JA's impressions seemed to align with what I felt I heard - Full, weighty bass, generally smooth response, with a bit of a rising high end just enough to give a bit of a peak or sparkle, but not in to the B&W or Klipsch territory.   Imaging was precise, off axis very even up to 10K, and they could play very loud and clean too.

@jcoehler , That got my attention as well as 28" is quite high for a speaker of that size to rest at. My ears reside around 37". A halfway point of 11.25" from the base is where the center of the tweeter is so, theoretically I'd need a stand around the 25-26" height.

If the off axis reach of the tweeter is good, I would think 22-24" would suffice and maybe even 20", if you slouch a bit.

All the best,
Nonoise

I've been reading through this thread and other online sources. It seems that the appropriate height stands for these are 20" based on what Music Direct suggests and the Sourcepoint manual which indicates the center of the speaker should be 33" off the floor and with the height of the speaker at ~22", (that stand height or maybe a tad higher) seems to make sense.

But in the review @nonoise posted, those two gentlemen suggest a speaker height of 28"?!?!  Anyone have experience or more insight?

Thanks very much fsonicsmith!

Ultimately I buy on what I hear, but I do find it interesting to see how a speaker measures.  It's interesting to find some correlation between what I hear (or a reviewer hears) and the measurements.

@prof 

First, to answer your question Friend, it measured very well. Extremely well. 

I don't normally even read the measurements section as to loudspeakers so I had to go back and read it to answer your question. What most impresses ME is that the rated sensitivity, low-end frequency response and impedance were spot-on as was mirror imaging (driver matching) between the loudspeakers. Cabinet resonance was very well controlled which means nothing to me. The measured FR was ever so slightly tipped up but JA did not find then to be bright in his [weird] room. For some reason JA did not seem to measure dispersion characteristics or even discuss them to any degree in his listening impressions. Overall, assuming that they were not cherry-picked samples this indicates very fine QC and his listening impressions certainly indicated very high value-they played loud without break-up or strain. I say this without a scintilla of personal buying interest. Would never happen. 

fsonicsmith:   The stereophile review isn't online yet.  How did they measure?

This is not an expensive speaker so there has to be some compromises on parts quality.  But, I heard the speaker and it sounds quite good to me and I think it is quite nice looking to boot. Unless one has heard it and seen it, I don’t see how one can be very critical.

Can't wait to read Atkinson's review.👍

I am not surprised that John Atkinson favorably reviewed them in the new issue of S'Phile. I am surprised that he a) spent three times as much space describing Andrew Jones' design process as he did with listening notes b) completely ignored his magazine's widespread love for the Devore O/96 and O/93 when declaring how novel it is to make a two way design with a 10" woofer and c) failed to attribute any significance to the fact that the professionals employed to maximize the SQ in his room resorted to mounting them on his speaker stands horizontally bringing to mind Bose 901's. That last clause is tongue-in-cheek. Mostly. 

One thing that DID NOT surprise me is that he did not use vinyl as a source or tube amps with them. I will not question JA's integrity-I believe it to be impeccable. I do question-sometimes-the credibility of his subjective impressions and his ability to review components in a manner that will appeal to and be meaningful to a broader audience than he/thy/himself. 

@nonoise : I get it. Totally. I am like you

@thyname , I've never gone back and forth with such big swings as long as I can remember. Knowing myself.....🤔

All the best,
Nonoise

@nonoise : sorry I missed that. 
 

How about you? You pulled the trigger yet?

I think two members in this thread said they bought them and a few more actually went and listened to them.

Anyone here actually bought these?

Yeah it's hard to fathom people want to make money selling hi-end audio. My dealer once told me how he made 1 million $ selling audio......he started with 2 million $ 😉

Corporations having a profit motive ??? Designers wanting to get paid ??? Buyers wanting a good deal ??? not a good combination of motives, needs, and desires...and then add China...

"Gauche boxes"... Really? @dayglow 

ahhh, the evil profit motive... mustn't have any of that now....

@dayglow , I guess someone had better notify Tannoy, who's been having their top line cabinets made in China for more than a few decades now.

@nonoise   Thx for taking your time to reply.  HEA is a niche market unlike mainstream consumer items like computers, i Phones and televisions ect. I can't speak for everyone but many do not consider these luxury items. Some of us want our audio equipment made in countries with a proven track record of quality control. Several companies like Sonus Faber and Krell have moved out of China due to QC issues which have to a small degree tarnished the brand. Quad has lost some sales and reputation due to the 2812/2912 not being reliable. If made in China audio components meet your standards fine but some of us uphold to a higher standard.

So, are you implying that although the sound heard at audio shows is probably as great as they say but can't be replicated down the line like virtually every other speaker (or any type of audio gear) has since time immemorial because it's made in China (like a lot of audio gear)?

Andrew Jones came clean at the very beginning of this as to why it's made in China and he's using the same facilities and contacts that've served him well for the last 20 years, ensuring quality. If it were made anywhere else the asking price would be around $8,000. 

Also, I don't know of anyone who's in any kind of business that isn't doing so for anything other than a profit. It's the nature of running a business. Nice detective work there, Marlowe. 

As for iPhone and computers being throw away items and not luxuries, you lost your argument right there and then and should have stated that at the beginning so no one would have wasted anymore time reading your mini rant.

All the best,
Nonoise

Ask yourself why the Point Source 10 is made in China? Profit for MO-FI is the number one factor(NOT QC) probably giving them the highest ROI. If the profit margin was higher in India or Mexico the speaker might be made there. How many of these gauche boxes will retain the claimed SQ of the prototype that is demoed at shows or the selected units passed on to so-called reviewers? Please stop the silly comparisons of i Phones and computers being made in China. These are throw away items that are necessities in current society not luxury items.

One big factor with this speaker was keeping the cost down by using AJ's connections that he's had for the last 20 years in China. One is used to the VAT over the pond but a dealer markup of almost $1000 is out of bounds. 

Here's another video from a Canadian dealer and their take on the Sourcepoint 10:

All the best,
Nonoise

@singintheblues that’s sadly the case with a lot of electronics, Ironically, the US is often cheaper, economies of scale.

Little comfort: a box of strawberry they grow 10 miles from me cost $2 more here than 2,500 miles away in the last village in New Hampshire

$3699 = £3064.   So if it were VAT @ 20%, that’s £3677

Still £823 or $992 to account for.

UK dealers want money for nothing.

@singintheblues VAT?

I just made an enquiry for these in UK.

£4500!   That’s $5440!!!!!!   That’s $1741 more than the Crutchfield price.    
 

If this was a US made product I could understand, but they’re coming from China.   This is the very reason I never step foot in UK dealers.   Lazy, greedy dreamers.

@jjss49  +1  

as more reviews, written and online, emerge from various sources over the past few weeks, i think a reasonable picture of what these speakers are is emerging

while i haven’t heard them myself yet (not a priority for me personally), i would summarize as follows

-- more traditional look, big box, wide-ish baffles, need decent stands, imposing in a room (to me it is interesting given the concentric drivers, the speaker may need to be raised up more than usual - to compared to say a pair of harbeths with higher mounted tweeter - for correct height and treble dispersion)

-- good to very good, full-ish bass response, somewhat lively forward mid/lower treble, but rolled off high treble with a ’big speaker’ sonic presentation not to be mistaken with more typical standmount bookshelf models - as such, can lead to some fatigue if not well mated to suited upstream components

-- placement and setup quite important (isn’t it always?!) to get proper degree of room boundary interaction, which in turn affects perceived bass response and overall tonal balance of the speaker... i suspect without proper stands issued that quite a few users don’t have the speakers at the proper height

-- excellent driver integration or coherence up and down the frequency range, to be expected with well designed custom drivers, crossover and concentricity, core strengths of andrew jones’ work coupled with good efficiency/easy impedance and thus can be driven by many/most real world amps

-- wide baffle and room interaction makes it pretty obvious the speakers sound has some noticeable ’boxy’ characteristics, which may or may not be an impediment, depending on what the listener has otherwise experienced

-- overall good to very good performance for the $$

So I am one of the "influenced" who bought a pair of the SB10s.  They are for a secondary system which is driven by an Allnic T2000 Integrated with KT170s.  I had some other speakers that sold faster than anticipated and needed something to fill the spot without breaking the bank.

I had demoed at my local dealer a number of Klipsch and Harbeth speakers and none of them had the sound that I was looking for.  I am not a listener who uses Diana Krall and Melody Gardot as my ultimate test tracks and I don't just sit in a single spot 8.36 feet away both speakers for hours on end with my eyes closed.))

The dealer was powering the SP10s with a Line Magnetic 845IA and I thought they sounded fuller than the Forte IVs, with a very clear soundstage and pinpoint imaging.  The bass was actually a little lacking for my taste,  They were about six feet from the wall and when we moved them closer to the front wall the bass really picked up.  The build quality was also better than expected.

It would be interesting to try them with a high power class D integrated amp like a Michi or T+A PA1100E, but for now they are serving their purpose.  

I think the comments from @prof are accurate.  I am about a week in and the highs are not causing any issue (which I have had from Golden Ears as an example).  They are sitting on Wharfdale stands while waiting for the MoFi stands to arrive.

Everyone, please enjoy Christmas or whatever you celebrate with your friends and family.  In my case it is dogs - while watching Raphie in a Christmas Story.  Have to love the "Old Man."

@nonoise Merry Christmas. and WAHHHHHHHHHHH!

@mofojo , Sorry to hear about your grandmother. She lived a long and full life. Why hide behind her as an excuse for being such a putz when you've been like this before, drinking or not?

@nonoise ,

Came from pretty good gene stock. Grandmother just died at 106. Excuse me for having some drinks on Christmas Eve although I’m only about 5 in. Havin a few more now puss cakes 🎂. 

@juanmanuelfangioii , back to your old self with the same, tired comparison, eh?

If you’ve read through this thread you’d see that I’m on the fence about this but not tolerant with the overboard criticisms from those who haven’t even heard them yet.

As for the videos I’ve linked to, that’s for convenience’s sake for others here. You know, like people do for each other in a community.

As for mofojo, he's a credit for whatever gene pool he crawled out of. To sound like he's half in the bag on Christmas Eve is sad.

All the best,
Nonoise

@nonoise you are kind a being like Millercarbon was with the Raven amps....

Nothing new here. They used to hook up ELAC speakers to amps 50 (fifty) times their price back then

Huff didn’t like them until he hooked up 20k worth of Pass Labs gear to them. Kinda funny. 

Steve Huff has also reviewed these speakers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZsWlENanJY

The stands that may work with this speaker is the RAB Audio ProRak SDM100 Which has a 14" by 18" top plate

Prof- Thanks for the well considered review of the SP10. 
I am impressed it seemed they did well even in comparison with the 22k B&W 803 D4. I would guess with sorting out the synergy and room interactions the SP 10 really could show good value at the 3700 price point. 
Cheers,

RW
 

I actually had the vibe that the SP10s might be a speaker I’d like to own...along with ones I already own. In fact that was one motivation for listening to them, not out of dissatisfaction with my speakers (Thiel 2.7 and Joseph Audio Perspectives) but, because I like having different sounds available. Among the many speakers I’ve auditioned the SP10s had a promise of being a sound I might quite like as a second system. I wondered how they would sound with my CJ Premier 12 tube monoblocks. The main thing that would give me pause is the bass response I heard from the SP10s, at least in that room, really did border on being able to overwhelm the room. My sense is they will appreciate the grip of a solid state amp. But...who knows? (One of my favorite amps/speaker combos was my old Eico HF 81 14W tube amp with my MBL 121 Radialstrahlers!)

Once I saw them in person I pretty much wrote them off as a permanent speaker for my use.  In my room they would not fit well aesthetically, so they would definitely be a "put them in to the system sometimes" kind of thing. 

@prof Thanks for the followup. I and (I'm sure) others here would like to know how your second listening sessions goes as it will most likely have different gear and room boundaries to consider. 

What you said about positioning mirrors what Stever McCormack said: it's kind of chameleon like in how it can sound depending on how they're aimed. In the Steve Huff video review he wrote them off until he tried some different gear and then he heard what they're capable of, and kept them. 

I'm perfectly fine with their imposing looks as they're practically the same size as my JBL 4319 "monitors" and love the big, effortless sound they can put out, at most volumes. 

Sounds like I'm convincing myself, again. An old habit I'm very familiar with.😄

All the best,
Nonoise