New expensive power cord for amp and no change in sound?

@wesheadley  (et al)= Nothing but further Dunning-Kruger runway builders.

                  Worthy of nothing but a short snort of derision and being disregarded.

             Give their ilk an opportunity at a bit of education and they respond with the same old primitive drumbeats.   

                            Like trying to teach a box of rocks to sort your socks!   

                                                                     😏

No one can tell you whether/how your system, room and/or ears will respond to some new addition.   There are simply too many variables.      LIKEWISE: no one can possibly know whether a new addition (ie: some kind of disc, crystal, fuse, interconnect, speaker cable, etc)  will make a difference, in their system and room, with their media and to their ears, without trying them for themselves.         Some companies offer a 30 Day Satisfaction Guarantee, so- those that are actually interested, have absolutely nothing to lose by trying (experimenting with) such.           Anyone that knows anything about the sciences, realizes that something like 96% of what makes up this universe, remains a mystery.             For centuries; humanity’s seen, heard, felt and otherwise witnessed phenomena, that none of the best minds could explain, UNTIL they developed a science or measurement, that could explain it.           The Naysayer Church wants you to trust their antiquated science (1800’s electrical theory) and faith-based, religious doctrine, BLINDLY (their credo: "Trust ME!").       Theories have never proven or disproven anything.  It’s INVARIABLY testing and experimentation that proves or disproves theories/hypotheses.         IF you’re interested in the possibility of improving your system’s presentation, have a shred of confidence in your capacity for perceiving reality and trust your own senses: actually TRY whatever whets your aural appetite, FOR YOURSELF.                                The Naysayer Church HATES it, when THAT happens!

Which came first, the rabbit or the hole?

 

 

dill

2,451 posts

05-14-2024 at 05:08am

"Unless there was something very wrong with your last power cord, or it was just a very poorly made one, you’re not going to here any differences other than those that occur within your own mind via confirmation bias."

- prove it

The scientific methodology that can found/support/refute theories works on disproof via hypothesis testing. Science doesn’t prove anything. Very common misunderstanding.

The crux of this thread’s OP is that an expensive power cord was compared to a more expensive power cord (albeit with the usual flaws that make an uncontrolled design) and no difference was detected. That is, quite literally, hypothesis testing for difference, and @roxy1927 failed to reject the null (Ho = no difference).*

I understand why the deterministic claim of another poster you quoted might have bothered you, @dill - fine. But instead of picking at someone for typographical errors or for stating a strongly-toned difference of opinion, consider further study on how experimentation works. The info is out there and free. 😉

This thread posed something different from the paradigms of increasing sonic returns for money spent and being able to count on improvements using one’s own hearing (maybe). But it’s one uncontrolled (sighted, ill-timed, etc.) design that merely supports a camp of cables-can’t-be-audibly-different by way of failing to reject a null.
No big deal, really. If everyone chats about their experiences but no one’s controlling for their biases or setup, then it’s all different variants of apples and oranges - nothing that comparable when everything is confounded by incongruous variables, hey?

*in hypothesis testing, the investigator(s) will not “accept” a hypothesis any more than they’ll prove something. They reject, or fail to reject. That may look like semantics in print, but it’s a very important discrepancy in practice.

@ps-

         What came first- the, "Yeah, but...", or: the troll?

@rodman99999

....or the hyperbolic pontificators? :)

Full disclosure, I make my own power cords using Supra wire and their connectors.  These are relatively inexpensive and they certainly do a fine job whether the component is tube or solid-state. And while I've experienced merelt changes or an occasional "improvement" in SQ from wire to wire, cables that, from my perspective, are priced absurdly high, make no sense.

The purveyors of those high-priced wires will, of course, disagree.

 

 

@ps-

      KUDOS, for experimenting with your system's sound/trusting your ears & senses.

      Supra follows some of the same basic science/construction as I've mentioned, if you've read their explanation, as to why their PCs sound better* than stock/common wire.

 cables that, from my perspective, are priced absurdly high, make no sense.

                                                      I agree.  

       However: those more comfortably situated than I, with much higher end systems and larger/better listening environs, can afford and demand the very best the likes of Kimber, Analysis Plus and Synergistic have to offer.

                                                      I would.

*https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/wire/cble/supra-lo-rad-power-cable-cs-us/

I've read this thread and each poster has his/her reasons for buying in or not on the power cables. JMO but had an experience that confirmed for me, in my system, that they do matter. 

Purchased some speakers, Evolution MM3s. Decided to get the Evolution power cords for the powered woofers. You know, recommended kit yada, yada. Had some Fusion Enchanters for my Monoblocks, ribbons. Well the Evolutions were 6' and the Fusions 5'. Basically had to switch as the run to the speakers was easily reached with the Fusions cords and needed the longer cables to reach the amps. So I flipped them. Significant difference. Didn't expect it, didn't want it to be so. Therefore no expectation bias. The difference was as plain as day.

@dentdog -

       KUDOS, to another experimenter, for trusting their ears and senses!

                                          Rewarding, isn't it?

                                 Enjoy your systems and music!

@dentdog 

 

👍

@mapman +1M! the best comment ever! "The there is always the option of changing the amp. That will surely change the sound of the power cord"

@dill "Have you tried an after market cord?” why?

@phd "Power cords can make a huge difference. This difference can be on par with buying a new amp (component upgrade).” (-) in your bank account!

""Have you tried an after market cord?”

- Yes many times, the first one about 25 years ago.

"why?"

- I was curious about the products and most units came with detachable cords to make it easy to do so.

I didn’t read all the post so if someone mentioned this. You stated in first post “after a couple weeks of daily use I hear no difference”. Does daily use mean you are not running cord 24/7? Even if you are running amp 24/7 300 hours may not be enough to burn in your cable. If it’s not run in it will sound thin. 

Expensive Cables, Wires, and Power Cords to make a huge difference on your wallet and that can affect your listening experience. Because you spent so much money you're going to hear things you never heard before. Like your brain telling you you should have never spent that much money on snake oil. Joke joke joke. I don't put a lot of stock in it. I bought some great wires and cables etc and I've had some really cheap ones.. The problem with the cheap ones is the build quality. Of course you never go for the cheapest stuff ever. Put yourself a reasonable spending limit on them and spend within your budget. I mean you should really consider it when you're buying a system that you know you're going to need cables, wires and etc etc. These are just accessories and there's a difference between the good and the bed and the ugly. The good is half decent Brands at good price. The bad is the Rock bottom cheap ones that don't have the best wiring or connections. The ugly is the overpriced ones that try to sell you something that is snake oil. Be a smart, educated buyer. Just cuz you're eating a steak. Doesn't mean you need a gold fork.

Use a gold fork if it makes the steak taste better. 

I will give you a hint, dont use words like "snake oil". Defines your tribe and taints everything to follow. 

cyackulic

3 posts

05-23-2024 at 05:22am 

Expensive Cables, Wires, and Power Cords to make a huge difference on your wallet and that can affect your listening experience. Because you spent so much money you're going to hear things you never heard before. Like your brain telling you you should have never spent that much money on snake oil. Joke joke joke. I don't put a lot of stock in it. I bought some great wires and cables etc and I've had some really cheap ones.. The problem with the cheap ones is the build quality. Of course you never go for the cheapest stuff ever. Put yourself a reasonable spending limit on them and spend within your budget. I mean you should really consider it when you're buying a system that you know you're going to need cables, wires and etc etc. These are just accessories and there's a difference between the good and the bed and the ugly. The good is half decent Brands at good price. The bad is the Rock bottom cheap ones that don't have the best wiring or connections. The ugly is the overpriced ones that try to sell you something that is snake oil. Be a smart, educated buyer. Just cuz you're eating a steak. Doesn't mean you need a gold fork.

 

Take your coomon sense and get out!

Paul McGowen frequently uses the phrase snake oil. And he's a major seller of such.

"Paul McGowen frequently uses the phrase snake oil. And he's a major seller of such."

- So maybe "snake oil" is good  😀

Not disclosing brand names is ridiculous. Brand pairing has been discussed a million times.

Change the wall socket next. That should do it.

Expensive Cables, Wires, and Power Cords to make a huge difference on your wallet and that can affect your listening experience. Because you spent so much money you're going to hear things you never heard before. Like your brain telling you you should have never spent that much money on snake oil.

 

Very true!

Paul McGowen frequently uses the phrase snake oil. And he's a major seller of such.

That's why I don't watch his channel anymore and it (selling snake oil power cables conditioners) affects sales negatively.

 

Why do you guys care? If you believe that most of this stuff is snake oil then dont buy it. There always seems to be an undercurrent of smugness when you guys discuss how others spend their money in ways you deem inappropriate. I dont understand the thought process or the motivation. Seems like a circle jerk to me, albeit one with no clear purpose.

 

 

"Why do you guys care?” .to share our own mistakes and best methods, is it wrong? 

Somehow I doubt that. If this were true you should mention your experiment, give some details and say you heard no difference. All this other stuff is tribal. You go way past giving your opinion, ridicule others that dont share your opinion so that you are on record so you can find other like minded individuals which gives you comfort.

I am happy to give you a list of all the cables that I have used in the past 5 years. I can give you a list of power conditioners but I dont use these as any gains were offset by diminishments. Please share your experiences. Instead of smug remarks add something to this thread of substance.

Or you can just admit you dont buy into any of this at the theorectical level and be done with it. If you havent tried a bunch of cables no problem but dont get upset if some on this forum think this puts you in no position to comment.

So again why do you care?

westcoast, I think I got you confused with another poster. So my somewhat aggressive stanch may have been directed at another person on this thread. Keep this in mind if you respond. 

I have 2 highly regarded power cords right now. They are both around 10ish years old. New equivalent models would be in the 4K range. Cord one causes a loud hum hooked up to tube integrated. Cord 2 everything is dead quiet. Neither made noise on another amp I had them hooked up to. Strange. 

Most likely some sort of grounding issue. A thing you can try is get a 3 prong to 2 prong cheap adaptor which will remove the grounding pin at the wall outlet to see if this changes things. This is just to identify the problem this is not a permanent solution. FWIW.

@roxy1927,I too have a Pass 250.8 and an ARC REF 6 pre.  Switching from the stock ARC power cord to a Shunyata Alpha v2 yielded a definitely noticeable improvement in the sound.  On the other hand, I first replaced my Pass stock power cord with an Audience Power Chord that I had.  There was a definite improvement in the tightness of the bass, audible but not amazing.  Then I replaced the Audience with another Shunyata Alpha v.2 and really didn’t notice any improvement,  So I think that it depends on whether you are replacing a stock cable and where in the system you place it.

I have noticed the most improvement on digital devices using better power cords. Noticed this primarily on friend's systems who have invested more in digital than I have in my systems. In fact one of the cables used in these comparisons was about a $ 3,000.00 Shunyata. Bettered the cord I brought over by a healthy margin. Of course my cord retailed for about $ 750.00 and I got it at dealer cost. 

@roxy1927 most $500 cables are kind of bare bones with no geometry yet and just twisted pair copper that’s 14-12 awg. That won’t work well on an amp and they need 10-8 awg or better. Try a few more from a lending library from a cable manufacturer or a dealer in the 800-1200 range. See if you hear anything.

@ audio.. "I have noticed the most improvement on digital devices using better power cords”

-more details, such as digital device name, original power cord (not known?) and replacement details would be nice! 

Those 10$ words sucked you in huh?

 

dedicated wire to wall from fuse box?

 

fusebox, 30ga thin wiring through house to outlet, and a 4gs cord will change water to wine? Nope. 
 

even 10-12- self wired to stereo wall won’t do much. 
I’ve tried, listened, seriously listened,  retturn it, ether RCA connects, if not, return, buy ore music.  Or demo new speakers?

 

are you lacking a specific tone, or, bass, or just experimenting with tweaks?

power cords will drive u nuts,  rca’s inferential coppers, and silver will give you some higher cymbals rashes, a bit more hang time.  
 

save your hairline, and pocket,    Tweak rcas, or new cart, or CD player. 
 

 .

 

arcticdeth

- your comments seem to focus on money and sarcasm, remember this is an audio site. Just because you don’t or won’t hear differences only speaks for you and depletes the value of your contribution.

Buys dill a beer.  

fusebox, 30ga thin wiring through house to outlet, and a 4gs cord will change water to wine? Nope. 

Who uses that?

I made another 5 PCs listening video since my system sounds closer to the original music with more sound improvement and my ears noticeably changed to stronger (less sensitive, less ear ringing, etc.) and relaxed (less watery eyes, less brightness = less dilated pupils, etc).

The transition to natural sound ears/brain took 3~4 days with a minor headache and my ears felt like a cotton ball clogged my ear canals. So, I know many of you won't hear the sound difference between PCs' sounds. But for some serous listeners, check below comparison.

5 PC sounds video.

1) click 17:39 .  This opens Youtube window.

2) Make a small YT window (narrow & tall = right half screen) to see the video screen and  time stamps in description).

3) Listen at least 1 minute each and repeat.  To hear better, listen to the original music (link in description). Just relax and feel what comes to your ears when you click.  Alex/WTA