New expensive power cord for amp and no change in sound?

<knock, knock> 

"Who's there?"

"Reality"

"Reality who?"

"The reality that bit you in the butt when you got suckered into an expensive power cord"

bimmerlover

@mihorn Your comment “In my experience, a last 5ft power cord is much more important than in-wall wiring. Like a garden water hose, the nozzle only sees what it’s connected. The audio equipment draws the current from a power cord which is a bigger reservoir than in-wall wiring.” defies all logic and physics.

You seriously think that your “high-end” 5 foot long power cord is a “reservoir” for energy/electrons/electricity?

As I wrote, my words are from my experience. Please let me know what logic & physics I am against. May be I can explain.

In fact, having an only natural sound system in the world, I did many unusual things to my system that others don’t. Is it defying logic & physics? Alex/WTA

@roxy1927 The reason you can hear changes with power cords has to do with the AC line Voltage drop across the cord. More expensive cables tend to have less Voltage drop.

But how much this affects various bits of equipment is a different matter. Some equipment is sensitive to Voltage drop and other equipment is not. It also makes a difference how much power the equipment draws.

If your amp uses feedback (and the Pass Labs does) then its able to reject to a certain extent the effects of reduced AC line Voltage, despite a high power draw. So if the $500 cable wasn't a whole lot heavier than the stock power cord, you may have heard nothing at all until you reached a higher power level, which might be well above your normal listening habits.

As you may have surmised, not all power cords are the same.

immatthewj

as far as water coming out of a garden hose to a nozzle, if all the plumbing in the house is ancient and gunked up, it will have a detrimental effect on the water pressure at the nozzle connected to the garden hose.

Of course. Electricity works differently from the water. Supplying the quality electric current to a audio gear isn’t same as dumping the water ASAP (or pressurizing the water to shoot farther). It is more ready for the demand situation. So, I wrote in my last post *Usually, the audio gear doesn’t use 100% of current." Alex/WTA

I assume we are talking about a solid state amp?

I could see a power cord making a significant difference only if the original was inadequate. I would spend money on interconnects and speaker cables first. 

I find that used power cords hold their value extremely well...I've bought and sold some fairly expensive cords, and generally ended up spending less than if I had bought parts to make my own (which I could not actually do)...we all have different preferences, budgets and priorities, and there seems to be too much critical, insulting, demeaning statements about others choices...and there are certainly some inexpensive products that sound great, and expensive ones that don't...but I really don't think there are very many who just want to spend lots of money on products they don't actually like....

When I moved to my current house I had the electrical service completely overhauled with new main panel, and discrete lines for my main stereo system, and hospital grade receptacles.  I then did some testing with a couple of others present, using regular power cords, some borrowed 'high end' expensive cords and some that I had made up myself using heavier than normal cable.

The results were interesting and saved me a whack of money - my home made ones were judged the equal of the audiophile super expensive cables in blind listening tests.  The high end cables went back and I have been happy with the home made ever since.  Had I not arranged for three of us to listen, I might have fallen for the usual "they cost a lot so they must sound better" myth of the high end stuff.  Not saying that can't sometimes be the case, just that high cost and a fancy brand name guarantees you nothing.

I think that many purchases of things like that are later justified by people who think that if they don't sound better then they - the buyers- are idiots and of course that could never be the case, so....they mentally qualify what they are hearing..

😂 

This phenomena is known as the “real world.” Welcome. 

@mihorn Your comment “In my experience, a last 5ft power cord is much more important than in-wall wiring. Like a garden water hose, the nozzle only sees what it’s connected. The audio equipment draws the current from a power cord which is a bigger reservoir than in-wall wiring.” defies all logic and physics. 

You seriously think that your “high-end” 5 foot long power cord is a “reservoir” for energy/electrons/electricity?

@roxy54 I have a 250.8 and an ARC REF 6.  I noticed a significant audible difference going from stock ARC to a Shunyata Alpha v2.  On the other hand, the difference between the Pass stock cord and another Shunyata was audibly better, but not nearly as significant as on the ARC.  But as they say, “everything matters.” So speakers, DAC, other cables all have some effect on how each component sounds.  I used an Audience Au24 on the Pass and then put in a Shunyata and honestly didn’t hear much of a difference.  But I was going for a full Shunyata loom, so I was ok with what seemed to be a minor improvment.

I’m with invalid. In my experience, a last 5ft power cord is much more important than in-wall wiring. Like a garden water hose, the nozzle only sees what it’s connected.

I am not arguing about electricity because I don't know much about that subject, but as far as water coming out of a garden hose to a nozzle, if all the plumbing in the house is ancient and gunked up, it will have a detrimental effect on the water pressure at the nozzle connected to the garden hose.  I can tell you that from experience.

Nope not click bait. The used Shunyata Sigma v2 NR I bought is for my ARC pre. Even used the Sigma is not cheap.  But I liked the improvement. I don't know why that would have been deleted.  I'm one of those I know what I like people. I'm not an engineer so graphs are useless to me. So here goes. I went from the $500 cord to the highly praised AU24 SX for my Pass 250.8 directly into the wall outlet. With the Shunyata I heard a difference immediately but that was obviously broken in already.

invalid ----- @bimmerlover I have to question the thinking that it’s the last 5 feet, the equipment draws the current, so it’s the first 5 feet.

I’m with invalid. In my experience, a last 5ft power cord is much more important than in-wall wiring. Like a garden water hose, the nozzle only sees what it’s connected.

The audio equipment draws the current from a power cord which is a bigger reservoir than in-wall wiring. *Usually, the audio gear doesn’t use 100% of current. **Drawing current/water from a bigger hose is faster than drawing from a smaller diameter hose (in-wall wire).

In-wall and dedicate lines influence the sound but are less impact to the sound than power cords. Alex/WTA

@invalid The electrons don’t care if you or I call the power cord the last or first five feet in a circuit that also involves 10 to 40 more feet of in-wall wiring. 

@bimmerlover I have to question the thinking that it's the last 5 feet, the equipment draws the current, so it's the first 5 feet.

I assume you didn’t spend several thousands of dollars on a 5 feet power cord without installing a dedicated 20 amp circuit with 10 gauge wires from your panel?

Otherwise, what difference will the last 5 feet make?

grislybutter -- @mihorn cool! I will try to make it

We'll have a good time!  Alex/WTA

The OP mentioned Shunyata Sigma was the power cable. I think that post was removed. Not sure what $500 power cord he’s using though.

@mihorn cool! I will try to make it

@immatthewj 

To the best of my knowledge, we have not, nor whether the $500 pc was much of an improvement over OEM.

Thanks, that's what I thought.

@roxy1927 Was this just click bait? 

Did we learn which "expensive cable" the OP stated didn't sound any better than the "$500 cable", or what the $500 cable is?

To the best of my knowledge, we have not, nor whether the $500 pc was much of an improvement over OEM.

He just set a new land speed record for getting banned, two whole days. 

Ha! And that is no mean feat!

Did we learn which "expensive cable" the OP stated didn't sound any better than the "$500 cable", or what the $500 cable is? IMO without that info this thread is useless (other than the usual entertainment value of most cable threads).

Whoaaaa!!  I remember jerryg123!  He used to send me "love letters"!

@immatthewj ,

Yeah, got a few from him myself. He just set a new land speed record for getting banned, two whole days. His latest persona is already gone...

grislybutter -----  @mihorn I read the program and didn't get a good sense of who will be there. Is it s tradeshow? Rooms setup for listening?

Yes. All rooms are setup for listening. This is an audio show. 

From it's home page "North America's longest running Hi-Fi audio trade show, T.H.E. Show, now in its 28th year"

More than 100 audio company participants. List is here. "THE SHOW."

Alex/WTA

@mihorn I read the program and didn't get a good sense of who will be there. Is it s tradeshow? Rooms setup for listening?

@gryphongryph And I don’t think anyone can hear a difference in a well constructed cable, be it $100 or $5000 in a double blind test.

Um ... do you know what a double blind experiment is? Do you know how it differs from single blind? And exactly how double blind is better than single blind in this case?

---- CORRECTION! ----

THE SHOW date is June 7-9. Not 9-11. Web-site (info packet) has some 2023 info and it is confusing.

Please visit my room (#272) at THE SHOW 2024, OC. Costa Mesa audio show on June 7-9.

I've heard power cord shootouts on amplifiers, and differences are, to me anyway, quite subtle and it is hard to really compare cords because of the time it takes to make the switch.  With interconnects and speaker wire, the comparison is MUCH easier to make--you can put one interconnect or cable on one channel and the other interconnect or cable on the other channel and then swing a balance control to easily make a comparison.  I was surprised at how easy it is to hear a difference that way.  

A local dealer who makes custom systems is currently experimenting with full range drivers in Karlson cabinets.  This is at an early stage of development, but, he has been trying different speaker cables.  While I knew from experience that Audio Note silver and copper speaker cables sound quite different, it was still shocking to hear how much different they sound when doing the left-right instantaneous comparison.  Equally surprising was how different listeners reacted to the difference.  Some liked the silver cables more (I personally appreciated the clarity and more explosive dynamics of the silver cable) and others, like me, preferred the copper cables (richer and better tonal balance for this particular speaker; the more attenuated dynamics and liveliness was not a big deficit to me because the speaker is so dynamic).  In my own system, I use silver speaker cables, so if anything, I would normally be biased toward silver; but not in this case.

It might have the same ’sound’ as the fuse, here’s slo blo 3 amp, for a 30 wpc tube amp.

https://www.google.com/shopping/product/7245096972818027189?q=slo+blo+fuse+3.2+amp+120+volt&amp;prds=epd:10311478264179553760,eto:10311478264179553760_0,pid:15108113217225807992&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwiyipKjl_6FAxXqElkFHWhHAMEQ9pwGCAs

sometimes there are internal fuses and/or relays, rated for ..... not a lot

I just upgraded all the cables in my system and a new power conditioner.  Spent about $20K.  I would describe the sonic benefit as marginal.  Instead of buying expensive cables I would save my money and buy better speakers.  That's where major improvements can be had.

Your amp is not mid fi, it is high end, and I think if the amp is technically well constructed and you use a well constructed cable, could be $50-$100 in price depending on enclosure, your amp should sound at its 100%!
If the amp is changing sound signature because of a cable, be it $100 or $5000 then something is wrong with that amp in my opinion.

And I don’t think anyone can hear a difference in a well constructed cable, be it $100 or $5000 in a double blind test.

And saying that one’s ears or system is not good enough (resolving) is just stupid.

I have listened to very resolving systems and these systems mostly can only play the so-called AudioPhile CD’s and one can only listen for a short while before one has to leave the room feeling tired of the sound.

I am not saying that cables are not important, but mostly they just have to be the right length and well made technically and to suit your system, no need to go crazy money vise.

Sometimes I see systems where the cabling cost more than the system! Which just doesn’t make sense, but it’s a free world, so each to his own 👍🏻

Sell it and move on .

tvad    I like to walk into rooms at audio shows. Look around at the attendees, and try to imagine which guys are posting on Audiogon.

Please visit my room (#272) at THE SHOW 2024, OC. Costa Mesa audio show on June 9-11. I promise you’ll meet many members.

Unlike other rooms which talking and music don’t mix (un-natural sound), my room is full of conversation (natural sound music) like a live band cafe. Alex/WTA

@dill ,

He's been on here and continuously getting banned for years. Up to his childish insults already. 

"dill perfect handle for you total dillweed."

- Wow, an attitude after just one day on AG. I guess you are just visiting huh?

Cobblers. I use BLE Design (made in Florida) $40 OFC 10 gauge with rhodium or gold plated connectors, and you can plainly hear an improvement. 

You have to spend more than $1000 on a power cord to hear much. 

I just purchased some entry level power cords from PS Audio for my sources and pre. Upgraded the receptacle and then sourced good parts and assemble my own amplifier Power Cord. I didn’t even try to figure out if it made a difference. If you have not assemble you own PC I suggest giving it a whirl. Its fun and an easy part of the hobby. If I get motivated I want to make one for my DAC.

If you go over to the Cables section those guys will stupefy  you with suggestions on what to us for construction. 

Oh looky, earlflynn/skypunk/jerryg123/etc. etc. is back!

Whoaaaa!!  I remember jerryg123!  He used to send me "love letters"!

Oh looky, earlflynn/skypunk/jerryg123/etc. etc. is back!

He’s now @coleyounger1896. Honestly man, is your life so devoid of interest you have to continuously get banned and come back? Seriously, seek professional help.

Fifteen years ago I spent $10k on amplifiers and the dealer loaned me a $1k power cord and a $4k power cord. I conducted a single blind study with a 3 x 2 experimental design (stock pc, $1k pc, $4k pc) x (wall power with hospital grade connectors, isolation transformer with hospital grade connectors).

Results were clear: with wall power, the system (analogue, ESL) sounded better with more expensive cords. With the isolation transformer all cords sounded the same.

Conclusion: more expensive cords can reduce electrical grunge on the line, which can affect even a good amplifier. I infer that if your power is already pretty clean, expensive cords may not do much for you.

YMMV

👍

Thanks, @audphile1 , I am taking notes.

vonhelmholtz

911 posts

05-07-2024 at 07:21pm 

Now that we have solved the power cord dilemma, let’s discuss something less controversial..like “climate change “.
 

LOL @vonhelmholtz 

@immatthewj absolutely! My pass amps are rocking audience forte f3 now (under $200 each). I also like TWL Seven Plus. Did not like AQ Hurricane, Tornado and Thunder. Loved Nordosr Frey 2. Furutech was really good as well. Didn’t like Cardas and Acoustic Zen (too warm with pass gear).
Like you said it’s all about the synergy and personal preference for sound. 

"We’ll not really PC are BS."

- really, how does your system sound without one?

Probably similar to an acoustically well treated room that has no system in it.

"We’ll not really PC are BS."

- really, how does your system sound without one?

Now that we have solved the power cord dilemma, let’s discuss something less controversial..like “climate change “.