New Dedicated Line - Almost No improvement

asking a question here as i have read the above issue several times on here.

when someone says they have noise, what exactly are they hearing ?   is the noise there when the system is on and no music playing?

i will wait for replies before adding more

I had an electrician put in a dedicated line (has it’s own breaker switch) which is 10 gauge and two Furutech GTX-D outlets - Rhodium.

two Furutech GTX-D outlets - Rhodium.

Were the outlets pre burned in? If not they need to be burned in. Search the archives for the amount of time needed.

As for ac noise on the ac mains... It can be caused by many things. You need to hire either an electrician with a Power Quality Analyzer or hire a Power Quality Testing Company to check for excessive harmonic distortion on the AC mains.

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need to look at your panel, you want if possible to have the dedicated line on the opposite LEG of the panel from motors; AC, Freezer, Fridge…. Start there….

Tomic is correct. Before putting the blame on the power grid, separate the noise producing appliances and devices in your home. Opposite Leg of your audio and placement of those breakers away from audio, ie, audio on top of panel, A/C, fridge at bottom of panel on opposite Leg. This may help.

The problem is dedicated lines will never be free of noise, all electricals share a common ground and neutral.

There are power requirement "believers" and power requirement skeptics.  I'm on the side of the believers with the following caveats:

1.  You don't need an expensive power cable, just a heavy one.

2.  Many expensive power cables fail at condition1 above.

So I see why some of the skeptics treat expensive cables as snake oil.  On the other hand, some of the skeptics think you can size a power cord based on an amps normal current draw  This ignores dynamics and will generally result in disappointing results.

I recently bought a wonderful amp on the used market that there is a 2 year wait for new.  I was very happy to get it.  The selling included the aftermarket power cord that he had bought to use with it.  I looked it up.  It cost $300 and was 18 gauge.  I wouldn't even use that cord on a 15w streamer.  No wonder he sold the amp.

I googled the power cord that the OP uses and found paragraph after paragraph of flowery prose about it but never mentioned was the gauge of the wire.  Would you buy an amp that had 3 pages of description but wouldn't tell you how many watts per channel?

So my advice is to always use a heavy power cord (I use 10 awg, because they are easy to get).  Whether you use a $50 generic one or a $2000 high end one is up to you but make sure it is at least 12, preferably 10, awg.

Jerry

No, that’s not sarcasm.  That’s a pun.

Wow. I'm shocked. (Yes. That's sarcasm.)

Just read the last two posts before mine - thanks Jerry and skoc. It sounds like there may not be more to do. As mentioned above I may try a PSM 156 for the 45 day trial and see how that goes. Sinking a lot of $ into the new house though so this isn't at the top of the list (like room treatment is).

Have thought about battery backup and will take another look.

Thanks All! My amp is a Primaluna Evo 300 integrated with tubes rolled. Power cord is a LessLoss entropic and also use that cord for my phonostage (ModWright 9.0x). 95% of my listening is vinyl. I also have a LessLoss speaker firewall(s).

What I have learned - which may be incorrect - from reading many threads and posts about power/line conditioners is it really depends on how dirty your power is. For someone in an old apartment in NYC with hair dryers being used all around them will have dirtier power than someone in a more suburban or even rural area (depending on those conditions). The house we left was at the foothills of the Appalachian mountains and we had our own transformer. I don't know if that helped or not but as mentioned the EMI reading was pretty low coming out of an outlet which was not a dedicated line. I think (!) this is why power conditioners make a big impact for some and not for others – depending on their system and listening preferences of course.

I've read more positive reviews about the Puritan PSM 156 more than any other (below $5k) and have been considering one of those but wanted to start with clean power to begin with so one isn't needed. Hopefully I would be able to plug in the Evo, phonostage and TT because I can’t stomach buying two of them – one for the Evo and one for the other stuff (and 2 of those would cost more than my Evo). I googled Running Springs Audio and not seeing anything recent for them and the company link was dead (unless a bad link). One of the P156 dealers has a 45 day trial period which is another reason I’m thinking more and more about one of those.

I’ll check out the panel later today and see what other stuff is on that side of the panel but not sure I will be able to do much about that – maybe we can move things around.

Thanks again. If I make any improvements here that are worthwhile I will update this thread.

I’m not an expert but if I were to go down this particular rabbit hole, I would look into battery powered options - potentially using whole house battery power backups from Tesla and others. Just seems a more promising route. 

EMI meter is useless.

dedicated line ensures your amp has plenty of power and no other equipment on the line challenging the system.  Means that 24/7 you have the power your amp needs.  Maybe at low demand times with nothing else running, the old line was the same or similar.

I installed a new 10 awg line to my system.  I didn't have an obvious problem but now I know I don't have a probelm.  Did it myself for a couple hundred $.

Adding a power condidtioner will generally do more harm than good.

Adding a regenerator will likely be a positive, but will not fix inadequate power.

symptoms of inadequate power supply are weak dynamics and bass.  

You should feel good in knowing that whatever problems your system may have, power isn't one of them.

And get rid of that meter.  ASR has made people thiink that if they can measure a parameter, it must be the right parameter to measure.

Jerry

@r042wal +1! 

+1 @r042wal 

All true! 

Mike

Here's part of an interesting article that was published in the fall 2000 issue of 'The Audio Critic'.  It puts a different spin on line conditioning:

Just about all that needs to be said on this subject has been said by Bryston in
their owner's manuals:

"All Bryston amplifiers contain high-quality, dedicated circuitry in the power supplies to reject RF, line spikes and other power-line problems. Bryston power amplifiers do not require specialized power line conditioners. Plug the amplifier directly into its own wall socket."

What they don't say is that the same is true, more or less, of all well-designed
amplifiers. They may not all be the Brystons' equal in regulation and PSRR, but
if they are any good they can be plugged directly into a wall socket. If you can afford a fancy power conditioner you can also afford a well-designed amplifier, in
which case you don't need the fancy power conditioner. It will do absolutely
nothing for you.

Laynes, in my previous home, I had a 20 amp dedicated line for my 2.1 system amp and a 15 amp dedicated line for my front line equipment and surround amp. I used a Running springs audio power conditioner for the 2.1 amp. I recommend line conditioning. I also had upgraded, audiophile electrical sockets and upgraded power cables. It blackens your backgrounds. That was the main difference i heard. My audiophile pro recommended the Running Springs Audio because it does not limit the flow of electricity—it just corrects it as it flows through it. Many “power purifiers” tend to limit the flow of peak power, causing clipping of dynamics. So read up on HOW your line conditioner works. I would definitely not put two powerful amps on the same conditioner as well, even if it has two plugs, or 8 plugs or whatever.. And don’t put your frontline equipment on the same conditioner as your amp. My two cents, passed along from my trusted pro.

need to look at your panel, you want if possible to have the dedicated line on the opposite LEG of the panel from motors; AC, Freezer, Fridge…. Start there….

The idea would be to run several dedicated lines one for each or similar pieces of equipment. Dedicate for digital and so on. 

No need for a dedicated box this just adds another break in the line.

Some have told me that stranded wire works best.

I am not a fan of conditioners or similar as they always, in my experience, took away as much as they gave. I do have very good power however.

Wow! I can certainly understand why you’re disappointed. One solution would be a system (conditioner/uninterrupted power supply) which employs a battery such that the AC for your system is generated from the battery’s DC power. Another item you might try is an isolation transformer which will cut down on a lot of the EMI, line noise and spikes/ surges just by virtue of its being a large inductor. Just some thoughts off the top of my head. I know such devices exist, but I can’t recommend specific products.

Good Luck, mean it.

So I keep trying to share around this and few people want to listen. :D

The heavy gauge and tight connections will reduce voltage drop but also puts you closer to all the noise. They don’t do a thing about that, whatever comes in, and even a great deal of house noise, stays in. The last thing I want really is a perfect conductor.  I don't know why people think the power that comes off the transformers is necessarily ideal... but nope, can't stop them.

But also please keep in mind those EMI meters are as far as I can tell no more than snake oil. No idea if the frequencies they measure have anything to do with hearing.

In any event what I can say is that I won’t plug anything I care about into a wall without Furman and LiFT and SMP. The SMP filters starting around 3kHz, which is a lot better than most EMI/RFI filters.

Thoughts? Does the dedicated line need it's own breaker box? 

No!

Mike