New Dedicated Line - Almost No improvement

I had an electrician put in a dedicated line (has it’s own breaker switch) which is 10 gauge and two Furutech GTX-D outlets - Rhodium.

two Furutech GTX-D outlets - Rhodium.

Were the outlets pre burned in? If not they need to be burned in. Search the archives for the amount of time needed.

As for ac noise on the ac mains... It can be caused by many things. You need to hire either an electrician with a Power Quality Analyzer or hire a Power Quality Testing Company to check for excessive harmonic distortion on the AC mains.

.

@laynes

How many hours do you have on the outlets???

 

One of many from the Agon archives...

Furutech GTX NCF receptacle break in, how long

 

laynes OP

7 posts

07-27-2022 at 10:55pm

About 35 minutes on the outlets - thanks will check it out.

@laynes

If I were you I would get the outlets burned in first before spinning your wheels looking for possible AC mains power problems.

If you only use your audio equipment AC loads to burn in the outlets it could take a year, or more to burn them in... You need to connect a load(s) to the two outlets 24/7 for at least a week or two. You need a load that draws some current. At least 3 or 4 amps if possible. The greater the connected current load the better.

.

The conversation has degraded to burning in AC power outlets. I think we have lost the plot on the conversation already.

Ignorance is bliss... It’s Not about burning-in just any outlet.

Two threads of many from the Agon archives...

Furutech GTX NCF receptacle break in, how long

 

Furutech GTX-D Rhodium NCF Outlet

 

I can provide a bunch move Links on the subject from users that have experience with the Rhodium plated copper contacts on the Furutech GTX NFC outlet.

 

My bet is the OP’s problem is with the outlets.... 35 hours of burn-in is nothing. Some of the loads that are plugged into one of the outlets may be less than a half of an amp...

.

@laynes

I have a few questions before you call the electrician out to your home and start paying him his hourly rate. Time = money...

1) What year was the house built?

2) Has the electrical service ever been updated?

3) Is the power lines feeding the house ran overhead or buried underground in the earth?

4) How big, amps, is the electrical service? (Look at the main breaker there will be a number usually found on the breaker handle. Typically 100 or 200.)

5) What brand is the electrical panel? Example, Square D, Siemens, GE, ITE, ect.

6) Where is the main electrical panel located? Outdoors on the house next to the electric meter? In an attached garage? Inside the house? Is the main breaker located in the main electrical panel or outdoors next to the electric meter?

 

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

As for the layout of the branch circuit breakers in an electrical panel:

Line 1 and Line 2 alternate with one another down each side of the electrical panel.

Odd breaker numbers are on the left side. Even breaker numbers on the right side. If you look closely at the breakers metal panel dead front you should see the numbers. Usually stamped into the metal. If you can’t see them here is how the breakers are numbered. (Note: For standard sized 1" single pole breakers. A 2 pole breaker takes up two 1" spaces.)

 

L1 = Line 1. (Leg, Bus)

L2 = Line 2. (Leg, Bus)

brk = breaker. (Or unused breaker space.)

 

L1 >> brk #1 ...... brk #2

L2 >> brk #3 ....... brk #4

L1 >> brk #5 ....... brk #6

L2 >> brk #7 ....... brk #8

L1 >> brk #9 ....... brk #10

L2 >> brk #11 ..... brk #12

L1 >> brk #13 .... brk #14

And so on down each side of the panel.

 

(Note a 2 pole breaker connects to both L1 and L2... 240V potential...

 

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

 

Here is some reading material.

An Overview of Audio System Grounding and Interfacing

Take note of page 16.

Read pages 31 thru 36.

Note the chart on page 35. Aluminum armored MC measured the second best. Number one being the best where the hot and neutral conductors are twisted together the entire length of the branch circuit. The EGC, (Equipment Grounding Conductor), is ran along side the twisted pair.

The type of branch circuit wiring can have an impact on the sound quality of an audio system. Also the installation methods used installing the branch circuit wiring can have an impact on the SQ.

 

Before we moved in I had an electrician put in a dedicated line (has it’s own breaker switch) which is 10 gauge

What type of #10awg branch circuit wiring was installed? NM, (Romex)? MC, Metal Clad) armored cable? Other?

.

Jim, ( @lowrider57 ) ,

Thanks for the kind words.

Jim

.

but to the person who put on the non-peer reviewed presentation to the AES that was linked. There are absolutely some questionable things in that presentation that would not stand up to scrutiny.

@theaudioamp 

Please point out the questionable things.

Jim

.

Example:

Courtesy of Glen B, (AA member)

https://www.audioasylum.com/messages/tweaks/146113/re-yes

Here is a photo of the interior of a main lug only panel. Note the breaker connecting bus tie for each each breaker space.

Siemens PN3048L1125C PN Series 125 Amp 30-Space ...

 

From an above post of mine.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

As for the layout of the branch circuit breakers in an electrical panel:

Line 1 and Line 2 alternate with one another down each side of the electrical panel.

Odd breaker numbers are on the left side. Even breaker numbers on the right side. If you look closely at the breakers metal panel dead front you should see the numbers. Usually stamped into the metal. If you can’t see them here is how the breakers are numbered. (Note: For standard sized 1" single pole breakers. A 2 pole breaker takes up two 1" spaces.)

 

L1 = Line 1. (Leg, Bus)

L2 = Line 2. (Leg, Bus)

brk = breaker. (Or unused breaker space.)

 

L1 >> brk #1 ...... brk #2

L2 >> brk #3 ....... brk #4

L1 >> brk #5 ....... brk #6

L2 >> brk #7 ....... brk #8

L1 >> brk #9 ....... brk #10

L2 >> brk #11 ..... brk #12

L1 >> brk #13 .... brk #14

And so on down each side of the panel.

Note breaker space #39 and breaker space #40 share the same breaker connecting bus tie. Both 39 and 40 are connected to Line 2 bus, Leg.

Jim

 @lowrider57 

If I provided misleading information, I apologize, it was very late. 

 I didn't read anything in your post that was misleading.

Best regards,

Jim

.

Fact!
Mother earth does not possess some magical mystical power that sucks nasties from an audio system.


Grounding Myths

"Electromagnetic Compatibility Engineering" by Henry Ott

3.1.7 Grounding Myths

More myths exist relating to the field of grounding than any other area of electrical engineering. The more common of these are as follows:

1. The earth is a low-impedance path for ground current. False, the impedance of the earth is orders of magnitude greater than the impedance of a copper conductor.

2. The earth is an equipotential. False, this is clearly not true by the result of (1 above).

3. The impedance of a conductor is determined by its resistance. False, what happened to the concept of inductive reactance?

4. To operate with low noise, a circuit or system must be connected to an earth ground. False, because airplanes, satellites, cars and battery powered laptop computers all operate fine without a ground connection. As a mater of fact, an earth ground is more likely to be the cause of noise problem. More electronic system noise problems are resolved by removing (or isolating) a circuit from earth ground than by connecting it to earth ground.

5. To reduce noise, an electronic system should be connected to a separate “quiet ground” by using a separate, isolated ground rod. False, in addition to being untrue, this approach is dangerous and violates the requirements of the NEC (electrical code/rules).

6. An earth ground is unidirectional, with current only flowing into the ground. False, because current must flow in loops, any current that flows into the ground must also flow out of the ground somewhere else.

7. An isolated AC power receptacle is not grounded. False, the term “isolated” refers only to the method by which a receptacle is grounded, not if it is grounded.

8. A system designer can name ground conductors by the type of the current that they should carry (i.e., signal, power, lightning, digital, analog, quiet, noisy, etc.), and the electrons will comply and only flow in the appropriately designated conductors. Obviously false."

Henry W. Ott

If you say you have a dedicated line and are getting noise from the AC then you dont have a true dedicated line. A true dedicated has to be brought in independent from the street. At the very least you are sharing a ground on your dedicated line.

A true dedicated has to be brought in independent from the street.

Good luck getting that...

 

At the very least you are sharing a ground on your dedicated line.

Per code the EGC (Equipment Grounding Conductor) of a branch circuit shall be ran in the same conduit or cable and connect the equipment ground bus in the same panel the branch circuit originates.

Exception, when a branch circuit is fed from a subpanel where an isolated ground receptacle is used an insulated isolated ground EGC can be extended and connected to the main electrical panel equipment ground bus.

No dedicated isolated ground electrodes allowed... They serve no purpose and can be electrically dangerous to life.

An Auxiliary ground rod is acceptable per NEC provided it is connected to the EGC of the branch circuit wiring. (NEC 250.54)

.

I recently had my service replaced. A solid copper rod was driven about 5 ft deep into the ground outside.

5/8" x 8ft is the minimum per code.

Driven Grounding Electrodes: Understanding what they are ...

 

I used the 25 ft long/deep iron drill pipe for my water well.

I would guess you have a good low resistance grounding electrode. I wouldn't be be surprised if it measures 5 ohms or less.

A practical guide to earth resistance testing

 

 

B

I used 1/2 or 5/8 solid copper pipe (not an iron/copper grounding rod., 6 feet long. We drilled straight down, hammered the rod in and then filled the hole with a high-clay content soil.

Is the grounding electrode only 6 ft deep in the earth? If so unless it rains a lot and soil moisture content is high you have a poor high resistance ground, imo...

I hope this is not the only earth connection for your electrical service. The System Ground, Grounding Electrode System, is mainly for lightning protection. It also somewhat protects the electrical service from a high voltage fault of the high voltage power line onto the low voltage secondary side of the power transformer from entering your house. The lower the resistance of the Grounding Electrode System the better. IEEE recommends 5 ohms or less.

Example of grounding electrode depths in the earth. (Climate Change and droughts would make things worse)

http://www.cpccorp.com/deep.htm

https://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/

A practical guide to earth resistance testing