Network optimization for serious streamers

Excellent write-up.

The only thing you may want now is an engineer-grade CAT 8 cable.

They never fail. Are inflexible, and shield better than anything else.

Ladies and Gentlemen : the results of

The Great Ethernet Cable Shootout

The contenders :

1. Pangea Premier SE .6m

2. Gigaware cat6 24awg 15m (Radio Shack)

3. Chinese No-name cat8 26awg 15m published specs (Amazon)

4. Linkup cat 8 22awg 15m published specs (Amazon)

5. Supra 8 26awg 20m audiophile claims published specs (ebay)

All cables were individually listening tested for directionality. It was conclusively unanimous, all of the ethernet cables sounded better one way than the other. When installed backwards the principal result was a shrinking of the soundstage. It seemed the longer the cable the more dramatic the effect. Since none of the cables had marked arrows, the chances of correct installation when testing a new cable was 50%, and that is what I achieved. With a little experience I could hear the narrow soundstage in less than a minute. These results are corroborated in Audio Quests ethernet cable literature :

 

Directionality

All audio cables are directional. The correct direction is determined by listening to every batch of metal conductors used in every AudioQuest audio cable. Arrows are clearly marked on the connectors to ensure superior sound quality. For best results, have the arrow pointing in the direction of the flow of music. For example, NAS to Router, Router to Network Player.

 

After I had corrected the reversed cable in my network, and replaced the short Chinese cat8 with Pangea, the sonic improvements led me to suspect the 15m Chinese cat8 as maybe still a remaining bottleneck in my network.

ONT > Pangea > router > WINNER of the Shootout > switch > Pangea > Sonore ultraRendu

A. I installed the Gigaware cat 6 that I used when I first started to experiment with streaming years ago. The sound was horrible. It reduced the sound of $$$$ equipment to the sound of $$ equipment.

B. The Chinese cat8 was good sounding and I could get Qobuz 24/96 tracks to sound like SACD. When after weeks of reading this thread and working on my network I listened to silver discs again, I found a subtle difference which I felt I needed to pursue, leading to this test.

C. The Linkup cat8 is an industrial strength cable, unusually thick and stiff. My initial impression is this is going to need significant break in time. After 24 hours it sounds better but in no way settled. My impression is that it is a system dependent cable. I am pretty sure it will never be the right fit for me.

D. The SLAM-DUNK WINNER is SUPRA 8. When I dropped this into my system the instincts leading to this test were completely justified. Indeed, the Chinese cable was holding the sound hostage. The soundstage opened to new unheard of width and depth. The dynamics were so free and the musicians were so present, I wondered why I could not smell their sweat. I did not think to look at my speakers because it was obvious there was no music was emanating from them!

Upon reflection there is a synergy between the Pangea and Supra, a perfect marriage. Each allow the other complete freedom to do its thing. Since I will never hear a complete loom of either Pangea or Supra, I cannot conjecture what they would sound like. I don’t care, because when you have found the love of your life, you will only confuse yourself or do harm by continuing to play the field.

There are so many other brands/models to choose from. Many of you have your favorites. For me the above setup is a cost effective value-for-performance solution that I have always searched for.

One last thought. It has become obvious that streaming is opening a new sonic frontier. I am hearing a new realism in my room that has exceeded analogue LPs and various iterations of silver discs. I have excellent front ends for each. I think this is due to dynamic freedom. I have limited opportunity to experience this rapidly developing technology. But I am happy to live out my days where I am now, which is where I could never have imagined I would be.

System Repercussion When I bought my Benchmark DAC3B I purchased a Pangea coaxial cable to connect my Esoteric DV50 universal player. This excellent sound was what made me search for the remaining unsolved network problem. The improvement achieved was so profound and truly stunning, when I went back to listen to a CD for enjoyment, I heard something unnatural in the flute obligato behind the baritone soloist. What could that be. There is a three position toggle switch on the face of the Esoteric for filter selection. When I first made the connection to the DAC3B I gave it a cursory flip through. I didn’t notice anything and gave it no more thought. With my hearing to a new place, I toggled from double over-sampling to the FIR filter. Suddenly all was sweet and beautiful. The "princess" had found another pea under the mattress.

In these forums I see discussions on which format sounds better. The true answer is they should all sound equally satisfying even while having their distinct sonic signature. If one format sounds inferior in your system, you have some work to do!

I still have not got a PS for my IPS ONT and router.

Skipping the out to lunch bits I have just re-read this entire thread and I’m greatful for this and others that have helped take my streaming set up from for lack of a better comparison from iPod like MP3 sound to it’s current no fatigue intoxicating bliss. There’s gold in these posts.. Gold, I tells yah.

Yesterday my wife complained that the whole house system (crud in ceiling that came with the joint) sounded poor and what could I do? That too was music to my ears!

Many know the path. Old mac lap top with a curd cable into an integrated… then a better integrated…then a Lumin T2 w/ an EtherRegen and clock (and that’s good stuff)….then upgraded PSU’s and then a Lumin X1 filtered with the Telegartner M12 SWITCH GOLD and JCat Optimo 3 Duo Power Supply. Then internet cleaned up. Next 18MB internet gone and then fast (but not always) StarLink in use.

I have a whole house stereo and that’s one of two Roon end points. The other being the real stereo. I’m beginning to think @lalitk is right the the SQ is better when not using roon and using the native Lumin App. Too bad the native Lumin app pales when compared to using Roon. Now when just in the listening room I tend not to use Roon.

Two weeks ago I took out my beloved tube integrated (Roger’s KWM-88 Integrated Amplifier modified to use KT170’s) and put in the Lumin amp. The SS (in my set up) was/is simply terrific.  Next to the M12 SWITCH switch that has been the most significant sonic upgrade. Now using fully balanced amp/streamer in dah house.

A lot of gear was picked up used (but new) on AGone which is a great example of synergy. The learning side nicely dovetails with the buying side. Who knew?

@pokey77 I bought the DC Y adapter from Amazon 4 years ago. The link is not remembered. I searched a long time to get the heaviest AWG 18, 35cm. They are often used in surveillance.

Supra cat8 just arrived and it is still cold off the truck. It is definitely directional and blows my two other cables away. Linkup arriving Mon.

I don't have the iFi elite yet but I am leaning in that direction.

@singingg 

I know another person who bought a 50' run of the Linkup 8 and so far they really like it. All of my Linkup 8 are 3'.

I have not moved forward with buying an LPS as of yet. Really need to do a bit more research.

You mentioned that you have a Y connector for running from the iFi Elite to the ONT and Router. Would you provide me a link to that?

Early next week I will have results of an ethernet cable shootout. All four cables will be 15 to 20m. I am doing this because I have a sound problem that needs to be solved. Besides the inclination, I have the time to do this. More on that later.

What I would like to solicit, does anyone know of an ethernet cable 15m+ that has silver plated copper conductors? I imagine such a cable might solve my problem and I have not been able locate one. I hypothesize that my positive results with Pangea cables is because of the wire that they use. The longest cable they offer is 5m. I will contact them to see if they will make one to special order.

I will also be experimenting with ethernet cable direction to see how universal it is. In my research leading up to this task I discovered that all Audioquest ethernet cables have directional arrows on their connectors, for what that is worth. I will never buy their products because I do not want to fall victim to their price gouging strategy (IMHO).

@pokey77  I just ordered the Linkup. I will have 3 cables to compare and return the other. Thanks again!

@pokey77 thanks for the input. I was hoping for a slam dunk with the supra. I am going from router to switch. Any forward motion with the power supplies? 

@singingg 

You and I have the same internet provider and the same ONT and Router. On 1/28/23 I substituted the stock ATT Network cable between the ONT and Router with Supra Cat8+ and initially it sounded louder and maybe slightly better. But it took a week to start coming around and really didn't seem to settle until 2/8 or 2/9. Results were that it seemed to be quieter, exhibit less distortion, but also seemed to have less resolution. I have hoped that the resolution would return, but I'm not sure it has. So, today I reversed the direction of the Supra 8+ on the ONT/Router. Sounds fairly the same so far after listening for maybe two hours. I'm gonna give it a week and if the resolution still does not return, I'm going to put the stock ATT cable back in. This has taken way too long, but hopefully in one to two weeks I'll know the answer. BTW, I'm a total believer in Network cables, I've tried a few different cables and this cable, Amazon.com: LINKUP - [GHMT & DSX8000 Certified Cat8 Ethernet Patch Cable S/FTP 22AWG Double Shielded Solid Cable | 2000MHz 2GHz 40Gbps | 5th-Gen Ethernet LAN Network 40G Structure Wires |Yellow| 1 M (3.3ft) : Electronics, is a good bit better than the Supra Cat8+ and is also a little cheaper too! I was waiting until I had finally figured this out, but decided to provide an interim report of my findings.

I guess it is just human nature that when something new and unexpected gets reported anger, laziness, and opinions on why it cannot be true surface first. Yes ethernet signals flow both ways, but does that mean that one installation is not superior to another? Give that a think.

Take a deep breath and when you are sober, open minded, hearing acutely, bored/curious, walk over to your rack (flashlight recommended) and make one of the easiest changes you will ever make. Pick any convenient ethernet cable and reverse it. IF you hear a difference, work your way through the 2 or 3 other cables you are using one at a time. Yes, one of them may be long and cumbersome. Listen and report back so all may learn.

I am grateful for this new discovery because it gave me a foundation to explore ethernet cabling in my system. Initially I researched out an inexpensive Chinese brand of cat 8 that had excellent published specs and just went with it. When I substituted Pangea cables post switch (Every component in my system has to be best value for the dollar, systematically synergistic, and musical sounding. No budget busting or retirement account draining devices allowed!) I got a nice jump in clarity and left it at that. Now, when I had just removed the optical filter from my network, I had an extra Pangea and decided to try it between my ONT and router.

This involved some work as the cable was short necessitating me moving my router much closer to the ONT. I removed the Ethernet cable whose direction had been determined, with a cable whose direction was not determined. I had to try it both ways and then go back and forth between cables a couple of times, and the Pangea won. The Chinese cable sounds wonderful but just a little smooth and a little less open on the top. This is subtle but clear to me, and the more open cable leads to less fatigue in longer listening sessions.

This suggests that the remaining 50' Chinese cable MAY need to be replaced. I ordered a 20m Supra cat 8 which will arrive on Monday with a return option. As usual, I hope it does not improve my sound, but actually wish that it will. Who doesn't like better sound?

I invite the more perspicacious of this forum to report their findings.  

 

 

No cable on earth has to be more bi directional than Ethernet.

Data always flows both ways. 

 

@singingg wrote: "It was reported that the ethernet cable direction makes a difference. My findings : definitely!!!!!"

Well thank God my LAN is all fiber optics then.  That would be a complete clusterf**k!  I could switch around the only two copper runs in my setup just for fun.  One is a 6" run from my NUC to a Sonore FMC and the other (1m WW cable) from my EtherRegen to my PS Audio DS DAC Bridge II card.  I would think the WW cable might - or could potentially sound different.

I'm demoing the Vertere Pulse HB LAN cable in my system right now.

This is the most insane Ethernet cable i've ever heard to date, it completely smoked both Pink Faun and FTA Metis LAN cables in my system.

We're talking a full component upgrade type of performance here.

You guys should take a look at this cable if you can afford it but beware there is no going back once you have heard it.

 

 

@singingg Interesting findings and I look forward to further reported results.

 

 

Wintry mix today. Let’s do some testing.

I can’t remember where I read this recently, maybe in this thread. No matter.

It was reported that the ethernet cable direction makes a difference. My findings : definitely!!!!!

Test piece : Qobuz stream 16/44.1 : Elliott Carter "Horn Concerto" which is a highly detailed and dramatic work sure to reveal any differences.

First, I reversed cat 8 between ONT and router and a veil was removed!!

Second, I reversed Pangea ethernet between switch and Sonore ultraRendu, and I had it right the first time.

Third, I reversed Pangea between switch and Transporter i5 resulting in severe sonic degradation. Back to the way it was originally.

I don’t have the courage to reverse the 50’ cat 8 running under my floor and suspended with cable ties, but extrapolating from what I heard, I think I got it right(grin).

Three out of four ain’t bad, but that one reversal has taken things to a new level of dynamic freedom and sonic clarity.

The contiguous ground is what passes noise down the chain from one component to the next. For the purposes of audiophile streaming this is one ‘performance benefit’ you don’t want.

Truly. Ethernet does not need to be shielded to work thanks to the balanced and twisted cables.  However, shielding is good around audio gear to minimize the chances of other gear picking it up, via audio, digital or power cables. To get any shielding to work you have to have a switch/router designed for shielded cables. Not all are.

The best of both worlds is to use shielded Ethernet which connects upstream to a shielded port, and use an Ethernet isolator downstream. This way the entire cable is EMI/RFI shiielded (both ways) but noise doesn’t drain through your destination switch/device.

I actually found the cheap iFi X was better than the Uptone JS-2 on the modem/router/wifi hardware. For streamers it was the opposite, the JS-2 was better. This surprised me because a linear power supply always tends to improve things.

But I had never tried lps upgrades on network switch type hardware before.

@pokey77 I am glad to be in the loop. Let me know when someone moves forward and what they experienced. Today I tested my Y-splitter and it fit both the router and ONT perfectly. This is the last thing for me to explore in my system. Everything I have explored these last four years in every corner of my system has been a keeper, except for two :

1. I am sticking with my $15 ethernet switch after I upgraded it with the iFi iPower X

2. After the WIFI tweak I removed the optical filter because it was coloring the sound ever so subtly.

As usual I don't know what to expect, but I am pretty sure there will be no going back.

@singingg 

I am also on ATT fiber with apparently the same two devices, Router + ONT. I had been thinking the iFi Elite would be a good choice but was also thinking about a 2-rail LPS and the Keces was also on my radar (along with the Uptone JS2 twin-rail LPS). Tom over on "Toms Corner" forum on WBF recommended the Keces LPS and likes them a lot. They are also reasonably priced.

About 20 days ago, I changed out the stock ATT-provided Network cable from the ONT to the Router with a 1M Supra Cat8+ I had in a box in the garage and I think I'm liking it better. But I'm also wondering if I lost a bit of resolution. I just need to make myself switch back to the ATT Network cable and listen to see what I like best.

Keep me updated on what you do with your ATT ONT/Router. My next step has been to start researching what people are doing as far as LPS for this part of the system, so great that I found you are currently working on that as well. You can look at my sig for the other items I've changed in my network.

@pokey77

Hey guys,

I use ATT. The router uses 12v 3A so my plan is iFi iPower Elite Power Supply.

The ONT is in the house above the baseboard and the accompanying SMPS is rated 12v .6A so my plan is iFi iPower X Ultra Low Noise AC/DC Power Supply. I already use 3 of these and they are fantastic when paired with the right component.

Now that you mention it the iFi Elite could cover both with the splitter that I already have. I’ll give it some more thought.

The other possibility is a Keces P6 which could cover both.

I would love to entertain other suggestions!

I now KNOW I have to replace the SMPS with LPS on the ONT and router from my ISP.

I tried to do this with my Verizon FIOS G3100 router, and I failed:

 

Why? Couldn’t find the wiring and dimensions of its DC input connector. None of the standard ones work. And the Verizon folks had no clue. As usual. I tried everything.

 

I wouldn’t mess with ONT. it’s outside the house, back wall, and I don’t even know how it gets the power

Be mindful of the current draw of the devices you will power with the LPS and the current output capability of the LPS you select.

@singingg 

"3. Extrapolating on this experience, I now KNOW I have to replace the SMPS with LPS on the ONT and router from my ISP. A jump in performance awaits me. I have picked out the models and I am searching searching for a good price. Patience, patience." -This is where I am at now too. What LPS are you going to use? Are you going to get a dual rail LPS or two single rail? Of use one single rail with a Yspliter to power both? Thanks for sharing.

I guess my daughter is right, "Dad you are a music nerd" 

Now if I had a bank of computers crunching the stock, bond, commodity markets, and FOREX, with the goal of getting the bucks for a $7-figure system, operating on the same network, then I would expect finding music listening impossible. Isn’t this the same as those who find listening at night an improvement when the electric grid is quieter?

I don’t think that this has much to do with Ethernet propagated noise as much as AC line noise. I try really hard to keep my computer items outside of my clean, filtered power zone.

I also use Ethernet isolators but mainly for surge, and a little for noise. Cheap peace of mind.

It seems the best solution is to wire your house with Ethernet ports, then turn wireless off permanently in the modem/router no?

Honestly an impossible task for me. If you live near other homes you also have to contend with their Wifi signals. The number of wifi only devices I have in the home has blossomed:

• Fire alarms
• Thermostats
• Lights, etc.

I do however keep my streamer’s Wifi disabled to minmize the RF/EMI right next to the analog gear.

Hello guys. Any gals?

1. As is often the case, a system improvement can create wonderful repercussions throughout a system. I reported removing the optical filter from my network. In doing so I removed two FMCs, a FO cable, LPS and PC. I would like to use that LPS in my system, if I could find a 9v SMPS. After a couple of days I was on my hands and knees peering at the PS for my Origin Live motor controller on my mono TT and discovered a 9v SMPS! Installing the LPS resulted in what I would describe as refined pacing, bringing profound realness/presence to the musicians.

Inspired, I knew that my Project Speed Box S2 motor controller, used on my stereo table, had a SMPS. Last year I had retired an Sbooster LPS when I found one that performed better for a phono preamp. I tried it on that controller and the sonic impact was unbelievable. Now I will have to listen to my 6000 LPs all over again!

I love it when I get lucky!

2. I have been mulling over the phenomenon of ethernet noise. I reported that I am not finding any. Noise is our enemy because it results in deformity, masking of silences, colorations. My streaming sounds identical or better in direct comparison to physical media. When I listen to my network there are no computers or any other tasks in operation other than delivery of music packets, because I have no unruly teenagers or recalcitrant significant others to deal with. Now if I had a bank of computers crunching the stock, bond, commodity markets, and FOREX, with the goal of getting the bucks for a $7-figure system, operating on the same network, then I would expect finding music listening impossible. Isn’t this the same as those who find listening at night an improvement when the electric grid is quieter?

3. Extrapolating on this experience, I now KNOW I have to replace the SMPS with LPS on the ONT and router from my ISP. A jump in performance awaits me. I have picked out the models and I am searching searching for a good price. Patience, patience.

Would you clarify what you mean? Occasionally when listening to Qobuz over my 100% wired ethernet the music will pause. I have come to accept this as packet/packets that have gotten delayed, maybe taking a left turn into Russia encountering the KGB.

Hey @singingg - I meant that within the boundaries of your home Local Area Network (LAN) there should be zero packet loss, corruption or delay. Well, at least under 1 millisecond ping times from any device to any other device. However, as you are imagining, we have no control over the Wide Area Network (WAN) outside our homes. The quality of service between Qobuz and your home is always a variable condition.

My point was that once a packet is in your home it should be re transmitted nearly instantly and without error to any other point in your home if it’s on Ethernet, and if in an isolated Wifi pretty close to it.

A good streamer will buffer several seconds (30 is not unreasonable) of music from a streaming source to mask most short Internet interruptions. If the Internet goes down for 5 seconds (as an example) the streamer can attempt to reconnect in the background while feeding the DAC from cache so we aren't even aware something happened. If you can adjust the buffer size/length it may be worth doing.

@erik_squires

"If you are using Ethernet in the home, and you have ANY packet loss or retransmissions you have a serious issue."

Would you clarify what you mean? Occasionally when listening to Qobuz over my 100% wired ethernet the music will pause. I have come to accept this as packet/packets that have gotten delayed, maybe taking a left turn into Russia encountering the KGB. If I wait patiently, sometimes up to a minute, the packets will appear and the music resumes automatically without further glitches. Thanks.

The issue with filters and such is you're ONLY CLEANING up corruption/noise further up chain. Point of this entire thread is to try to AVOID the need to CLEAN up that noise, this is only band aid covering up the wound. YOU CAN'T GET BACK WHATS BEEN LOST PRIOR IN CHAIN!

 

If you are using Ethernet in the home, and you have ANY packet loss or retransmissions you have a serious issue.

Hey @lewinskih01 - Sounds like we have similar setups. I’ve focused on two areas:

• Noise control
• Surge control

I live in a storm/lightning prone area. Outside the house I use a gas discharge based coax surge suppressor attached to the necessary grounding block. I don’t think this improves my musical experience except in that it limits the voltage that can come in. Given how many items I have using Ethernet here I have more items at risk of surge damage from the cable provider than most people.

I used to use fiber adapters as both surge blockers (can’t surge through fiber!) and noise suppression but have simplified all of that to using 4kV Ethernet isolators. One after the modem (just in case!!) and one before my HT switch. It’s at the end of a 30’ run so risks having an induced surge.

Lastly, I use iFi power supplies on my DAC and streamers.

I feel better having LESS power supplies than more, and every time you add a fiber adapter you end up with more power supplies in your system and additional surge paths, not to mention a little more latency and network jitter.

I also use a shielded power cable to my integrated amplifier, in the hopes of minimizing EMI/RFI from all the other cables (Ethernet, HDMI, power, etc.) running around my system.

Interesting thread. I'm also in the network optimization bandwagon, and there are new things for me to consider here.

My system is based on Roon Server running on a generic PC and an optimized (no motors, headless, server mobo) Audio PC connected to DAC. I get internet thru coax into a router/modem provided by ISP. I'm in the process of testing an LPS for this. I do have wifi on,  so that's something to try. From that router I have CAT 6 cable to a switch connecting the house included the Roon Server PC. Another ethernet cable from the ISP router goes into an etherRegen with DX ISO-Plus, then out thru Finisair optical modules and fiber onto a second etherRegen with LPS, then onto good ethernet cable and into Audio PC.

I will try disabling wifi, which should reduce noise both for the Audio PC and Roon Server. However I will still have 70 feet of unshielded CAT 6 between router and switch, noisy power for switch, etc. What would be a better configuration if using Roon? I've been thinking what happens on the Roon Server is not as important as what happens before the Audio PC playing just Roon Bridge.

Regarding "wall wart wifi over power line" devices. Worst idea ever. Folks with turntables know as the resulting audible noise makes listening impossible. One may not hear the audible noise at line levels but it's still degrading the sound quality.

Audiophiles often spend a lot of time and money to improve AC quality to their music systems. Injecting high frequency signals on the power line makes zero sense.

BTW, here's a reasonably priced, non-audiophile approved wired ethernet filter pair. I wonder how this compares to the vastly more expensive audiophile versions.

DX Engineering ISO-PLUS Ethernet RF Filters

I have the same experience as christianb5s4 with my new LHY SW-8 network switch.  Additionally, I spent about 6 hours yesterday running a Cat 7 ethernet cable across the house from the SW-8 to my Apple TV box.  It was a small upgrade to the tv picture but enough to motivate me to drill through walls and crawl under the house to run this ethernet cable.

My next upgrade was switching out the SFP's in my FMC's to Finisar model 1475 SFPs.  (To translate:  The plug in Laser TXRX cartridges in the Fiber Media Converters.)  I came across a post somewhere on these pages recommending these SFP's.  So further down the rabbit hole I go.  I didn't really expect much but I detect a small change- for me at least.  One streaming song I have listened to and am familiar with has a cello that didn't ever sound quite right to me.  Every time I heard it I wanted to fix the sound of that cello.  Well, when I played that song with the Finisar 1475's in place, the cello sounded more natural.  I don't know if it was my mood, the air temperature or really the SFP's but the cello sounded better.  I played the song again a couple of hours later and the cello still sounds more natural to me.  Crazy stuff this digital- and if I am deluding myself, so what?  These SFP's were not cheap but not a whole lot of money overall, if they bring me happiness.  I streamed last night and got lost in the music- no picking apart the sounds or dissecting the sound stage, just listening.  I'm very satisfied now with the sound of streaming.

Just do what works for you.

My system is perfect for me know and 10G FMC and Transceivers were the ticket. 

Quick update. Have had more time with the system with the LHY in the chain and can confirm, it definitely has positively impacted musicality, noise floor, and bass definition. I did more A/B testing including with my fiance (who's my litmus test) and she noted the same improvements. Not night and day improvement on what I consider was already very good, but a few percentage points improvement in the aforementioned areas.

 

This is one of those things where before I got into this hobby, I never would have realized how so many points of a system matter to the sound quality of it. But it does. I'm a big fan of simplicity so my network side will stay as is with the LHY being the final connection pre-streamer.

You guys should try this LAN cable, spectacular!

 

Hi @agisthos,

At the switch end I use four JCAT M12 Gold cables (two came with the M12).  These are 2m each. They go to my Modem, the Nucleus and both systems.  To extend the LAN to my music areas, I use the Supra Cat 8.  I connect the M12 Gold cable to the Supra with JCAT Net Isolators, which are the best LAN coupler I see available.

At the streamer end, I connect the Supra Cat 8 directly to the Network Acoustics Muon Pro cable, again using a JCAT Net Isolator.  I avoid any wall plates and run the Supra through the wall.  I could connect the Supra directly into the Muon Pro Filter, but Rich at NA says use their Muon Pro Cable into the filter for best performance.

“I even hear there is a newer version of the M12 coming”
@fastfreight

The newer version dubbed as PREMIUM is purposely redesigned for a more energetic sound over M12 Gold Switch. And then, their newest Telegartner Opt Bridge 1000M with dual DC power supply. I can’t wait to find out what this Bridge brings to the table before my M12 Gold Switch with JCAT Optimo Duo power supply :-)

There is a lot of ethernet filters out there but the Muon seems to have the best listener reports. I was thinking to get one of these to put just before my Lindemann streamer. I want to keep the router, wireless and switch in the other room, powered on a separate line to the main system. 

@fastfreight did you end up also using the matching Network Acoustics LAN cable?

@fastfreight 

Now I have the new 1G/s Muon Pro.  It connects perfectly with my 1G needy Auralic streamer.  AND, to us, the Muon Pro System sounds even better than the Muon.  Since we never know what speeds may later prove to be a bottleneck, I would strongly say just get the Pro System.  

Thanks for your feedback.Network Acoustics Muon filtering system I’m convinced is the real deal.

Charles 

 

Good Morning @agisthos,

First, I believe the JCAT M12  Gold is similar / related to /  modified??? Telegartner Japan switch.  I found out much about it on the What's Best Audio forum.  I even hear there is a newer version of the M12 coming, but I am so good with my present M12 Gold. My M12 is located in my computer office, actually serving as switch between my Modem, Nucleus+, and two lines to my two main systems.  Some suggest better impact if placing the M12 switch right in front of my streamer, but I need a switch so upstream it went.

I have never owned or heard an Eno.  I first got a Muon (system, with the second cable) last year and absolutely loved it.  So much I bought a second, so one for each system.  When I added an Auralic Aries G2.1 with the Muon, I had connection issues.  Now I have the new 1G/s Muon Pro.  It connects perfectly with my 1G needy Auralic streamer.  AND, to us, the Muon Pro System sounds even better than the Muon.  Since we never know what speeds may later prove to be a bottleneck, I would strongly say just get the Pro System.  I also originally started with an EtherRegen, which did help also, but is not needed with the Muon.

Hope that helps!

 

@fastfreight hey nice find Fastfreight. I had not been on the JCAT site in a long time. The M12 Gold looks to be a real custom ground up design. This is what we want. The only other company I know who has built custom core switch hardware is Nordost with their just released QNET.

Both products, combined with their respective power supplies, are really getting up there in price though.

About the Muon... did you have the lower end Eno or Muon before, and if so how much better is the Muon Pro model? I too like it because its inline passive, not having to worry about yet another LPS, DC cable and AC power cable, which when done correctly literally triples the cost of any of these tweaks.

Hello @agisthos,

I am not ready to pay big money for an audiophile switch. They seem to just be repurposed consumer switches in a fancy case with a linear power supply and sometimes clock upgrade. You could probably get the same grade of switch and add your own power supply to it.

I had similar feelings of my first 'audiophile switch upgrade'.  but the JCAT M12 Gold is the real deal.  To me it was a great value for what it added. AND, the JCAT Optimo 3 power supply  for the M12 gold was also well worth it, to me.

 

Then there is the Eno and Muon ethernet filters. These seem to be getting genuinely rave reviews, even from respected people like Hans Beekhuyzen. Its possible these noise filters are doing the same job as the optical modules, not letting that high frequency noise pass, but without all the hassle.

+1 on Network Acoustic Filters.  I now have the Muon Pro Filter System and love it.  It is placed just in front of my streamer.  I also like  its passive nature, so no concerns about power supply.

So far no fiber for me....

 

 

 

@ghdprentice (George)

Thank you.

Charles

@charles1dad

 

My Aurenders are connected to my wifi extenders with an Ethernet cable.

 

George

Article discussing 10gbe vs sfp+,https://www.fiberopticshare.com/10gb-ethernet-copper-optical-fiber.html

General home networking products in the market so far and what most people use at home are 1GB speed rated. This is sufficient for most uses for any home user. 

The technology available when Ethernet standards for 1gb speed were current did not need to (or could not) address noise suppression as it did later on. Fast forward and today 1GB is considered outdated in the networking world but not so much in the consumer side. 

For a truly clean network one needs to use 10gbe or higher as 1000base-x (1gb fiber) is incapable of preventing noise. Using only copper does not eliminate common mode noise. Wifi is good but can add noise on the final leg. This does not mean all of the networking components have to be upgraded to high speed. Depending on the use and function various isolation methods can effectively coexist. Wifi is effective isolation for most devices. 1G Fiber is great for video and overall audio use. For serious audio streamers, one can just add a single 10gbe link in the network chain on the audio signal path to create a network isolation segment. Your favorite clocking device or other devices can remain after this segment and benefit from the change.

Adding two 10gbe fmc/switches connected by 10gbe sfp+ transceivers right before your audio endpoint you can create a very effective noise barrier. This 10gbe link does not need to perform any additional function (if you don't want it to) other than just to utilize the 10gbe network protocol (10GBase-X, IEEE 802.3ae or later).  Effectively this will block all jitter and network noise coming from upstream devices. The results are surprising. From a cost perspective this currently adds up to roughly 250-350 range. Of course, there are 100gbe components available now which will do all of that using just one unit but they are still very expensive. 

As most folks have encountered, there are many ways to go about getting to where you want to go. Just adding another shortcut in case it helps.

 

Hi @ghdprentice 

Is your Wi-Fi extender connected via LAN cable to your Aurender or is it completely wireless?

Charles

@charles1dad …”Of course this represents heresy to the D.I.Y. streaming inclined.”

 

Yes, of course. I am sure it is great fun. For fun, I did a bunch of DIY cables. For me, I quickly realized I had other things of greater priority. 
 

Yes, there are multiple paths.