2. amps-preamps
  3. 126624-10101

My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab
20,890 responses 
mrdecibel
3,063 posts
 
WC, other than you and I, I wonder who else listens at peaks of 100 db? ( what's my name ). Enjoy ! MrD.
avcr79
20 posts
 
i just passed by Whitecamaross' house and heard the Neoliths today. I really think he does not realize how good his speakers are. Could it be the audiophile disease we all have? i heard the most astonishing dynamic electrostatic i have ever heard with the most outrageous soundstage. He has crazy cables, dedicated 20a outlets, and a ref10 sitting on the shelf collecting dust lol. I gotta be honest, you really need to just step back and enjoy that tremendous set up of yours. I have never heard instruments sound that big and full with lots of air. 
You are not being quite fair to  your set up. I told you this in person today and although yes a bigger room would help, it still sounds just INSANE in  your room without zero room treatment which is crazy. 
mikepaul's avatar
mikepaul
223 posts
 
it's like bringing home a new porsche and you still feel you have to upgrade the tires,etc.. 
viber6
2,448 posts
 

lhasaguy,

If your tastes in sound are like mine, with brilliance, clarity and tightness throughout the entire range paramount, there is probably no better performance plus value than the Rega RP10 with its arm, Apheta 2 cartridge as a specially priced package at about $6700.  My next move is to get the Apheta 2 cartridge for my Goldmund Studio TT with Alphason arm.  If you like lush, romantic rolled off sound, there are plenty of systems at many multiples of the price, as if the designers are laughing all the way to the bank, catering to the typical audiophile with money who likes to be seen in the 20th row of the concert hall where that type of sound is heard.

techno_dude
382 posts
 
WC , thanx for the Wilson suggestion. Would you say the Sasha 2 were as resolute as the Magico and Sopra you owned. ( Viber seems to think Wilson lack resolution compared to other brands).

If I go Wilson, it would be the Sabrina model because of it’s small footprint.
stargazer3's avatar
stargazer3
135 posts
 
I think this thread is becoming a precedent for in depth study of eternal obsession.
mikepaul's avatar
mikepaul
223 posts
 
i am obsessed with obsession.
viber6
2,448 posts
 

WC,

It seems you prefer bass more in terms of oomph and quantity, instead of tightness, accuracy and quality.  Of course, the bigger Neo woofers will outshine the Magicos in oomph, but what about accuracy at sensible 90 dB levels?  The 7" woofers in the Magico are probably more accurate and tight at lower volume levels.  The most accurate midbass is probably from the pure electrostatic CLX, although of course the quantity is less than the Neo at the same freq range.  And techno_dude wondered recently about whether the Neo was any better than the 15A.  They are both hybrids.  My guess is that at sensible volume levels, the 15A has better quality of the entire freq range, because of the smaller drivers.  Of course, the Neo beats the 15A for dynamics, but you have noted the HF of the Neo lacking compared to the Magico and probably the 15A.  Remember the physics of larger panels, which have a trade-off of reduced HF compared to smaller panels, verified by my experience.  Fortunately, you corrected the relative HF deficiency by using the treble control at +4.  You noted that the Magico would work best for you with a -1 setting, and maybe the 15A would be best at flat.  Just imagine if you had tried the 15A at the same 5 foot distance.  You would marvel at their clarity, which would probably exceed the Neo at moderate volumes.

viber6
2,448 posts
 

techno_dude,

I have no recommendation for dynamic speakers at just below $30K, and would defer to grey9hound on that.  The Tekton DI at $3K looks super, but I haven't heard it.  You know my views of most dynamic speakers, so I wouldn't spend more than that.  For less than $5K, you can get the smallest ML hybrid, which still has better clarity than any dynamic speaker, although of course less dynamics.  A little better would be the 13A for more of everything.  But the 15A for $25K is not a compelling performer compared to the similar priced pure electrostatic CLX, which gives near SOTA midbass to HF.  The ultimate system for $30K is the CLX-REL combo, which would give the best of everything at reasonable volumes.  Use the tone controls on your preamp to boost the HF from the curved panel of ML.  You have the excellent Lux M900u and Shunyata cables, so the weakest link in your system is the dynamic speaker you have.  No need to get the Lux preamp to match the power amp.  Lots of money for modest benefit.  Instead, you could save a lot of money and go for accuracy by getting the $200 Rane ME60 for the needed EQ, going straight into the Lux M900u.  Its excellent line stage part would give the Lux preamp a run for its money, and still can provide 6 dB of gain with balanced connections. 

riaa_award_collectors_on_facebook's avatar
riaa_award_collectors_on_facebook
981 posts
 
If these Rane EQ’s are so wonderful how come there are 118 people on EBAY looking to get rid of them? Guess they must be stoopid or something. I think you should contact every one of those sellers and tell them they have no idea what the heck they are doing...just like you tell everybody here.
dep14
336 posts
 
@viber6 

There are a number of outstanding speakers with great dynamics below 30k.

Hell, there are a number of outstanding speakers in general below 30k.  

I've heard the Tektons, in fact I've been to Terry Londons house and heard his.  I understand what people like about them.  They are a really good sounding speaker.  Very Dynamic.

The double impacts for 3k, frankly are an absolute blast of a speaker.  While I may have my issues with some of the Tekton stuff, from a sound perspective I totally get it.

The Double Impact SE at 6k, is NOT twice as good as the Double Impact.  In fact, while better its a quick way to see the law of diminishing returns in audio.  

The JBL M2, while "Pro-Audio" is one of the best speakers I've ever heard.  I've heard the big Wilsons, Neoliths, Dyn Consequence.  Are they better, sure - but not 5x better etc.

The K2S9900 - great speaker

Spatial Audio M3S Turbo at 3k, if set-up properly is pretty dynamic and fun.  

LOTS of small builders that do great things out there also (Some of the Salk stuff is great).

It's a fun hobby, let it be that.
mrdecibel
3,063 posts
 
There is obviously anger towards viber6 ( and probably me ), for recommending the Rane eq. Currently, I count 22 Rane ME60 eqs being sold on eBay, average price about $200. Maybe I should spend more time talking about my Luminous Audio Axiom, with Walker Mod, and suggest to everybody to spend $1200. on one. Obviously, not many have used the Rane in place of a line stage. That is the point of it's being mentioned by viber6. Get over it guys. Enjoy ! MrD.
riaa_award_collectors_on_facebook's avatar
riaa_award_collectors_on_facebook
981 posts
 
  There is a BIG difference between "mentioning" something in a post or 2 and Bashing people over the head with it a COUNTLESS number of times over a period of months. Highly unlikely your going to convert anybody to your way of thinking going that route.
ron17
607 posts
 
@ riaa  Totally agree
pokey77
1,267 posts
 
@techno_dude

The Wilson Sabrina is one of my favorite speakers; very very good at its price point of $16k. The Sasha 2s are even better, but they should be at $33.5k. I've heard both multiple multiple times and they are just great sounding.

The Sasha 2 is very significantly better than the Sopra 2s and I've heard the Sopra 2s a number of times. I don't know how the Sasha 2s compare to Magico, though I've heard a few of their models, I've never had the luxury of hearing Magico sound great.

Wilson do NOT lack for resolution, are very dynamic, and wonderful to listen to. Wilson loves Audio Research and D'Agostino. I've heard your Luxman amp with its matching preamp, but I don't remember hearing it with Wilson (was KEF Blades and maybe TAD).

Sabrina with Luxman 509X integrated is very good and I have heard this combo many times with the Luxman D-O5u CD player and Nordost cabling.


viber6
2,448 posts
 
RIAA,
Yes, most of the sellers of the Rane on eBay are stoopid. Should I send in the spelling police for you? Number one, they can’t hear the superiority of its audio quality and EQ functions, and have a mental block that even if they hear its superiority, they don’t want to admit it (for reason number two) and are swayed by current fashions in retail which needs to come up with new products, just as stoopid as women’s fashions. Number two, they want to be a member of the pretentious money club that says that nothing cheap can be good. One day in the not too distant future, there will be lots of ARC monos on ebay, and you will note that they are stoopid for getting rid of them in favor of the current fashionable item.
viber6
2,448 posts
 
Those of you who say that Wilsons or any other dynamic speakers do not lack resolution, are unfortunately in the dark about what electrostatics and some ribbons can do in the realm of superior resolution.  You have made a choice that loud dynamics in music is the all important criterion where dynamic speakers do have the advantage.  Actually, electrostatics have excellent dynamic range, but it is at the smaller end of the loudness range.  Appreciation of micro-dynamics is allied with superior resolution.  The dynamic speaker is at a disadvantage here.
pokey77
1,267 posts
 
I have owned both ESLs and the more traditional cone-type speakers. My outgoing system included Martin Logan Vantage's (12 years) and my current speaker choice is TAD. I've heard the 13a or 15a in the last six months and yes I liked them, but not enough to put them in contention. My new speaker does micro-dynamics that are far superior to any other speaker that I could afford or have owned and this is indeed the type of resolution I was looking for. Yes, it is also quite dynamic.

Paired with the right components, Wilson indeed has exceptional resolution. And they also have very high dynamics.

Resolution is overall frequency response and dynamics are just that, dynamics. I'm not sure that anyone here has the two confused.


mikepaul's avatar
mikepaul
223 posts
 
viber6..
I think RIAA misspelled "stupid" intentionally to accentuate their stupidity.

Or maybe he didn’t and I am just stoopid.

Anyway,there are a lot of defensive people here in regards to what they hold important in the audio world. Too bad.

I think we are better served mentioning stuff that we have without stating that other people are wasting their time if they put together a different system other than their own.

Obviously we all have different tastes and budgets.I do not think we all drive the same car. Some want good gas milage Some need speed and power. etc

If i played the piano wouldn’t I be obnoxious to tell some other musician that they are wasting their time playing the triangle?

Or if I studied a foreign language and I told someone not to waste time and study a different foreign language? ....etc? etc?

That would just be plain stoo....ahhh forget it.
riaa_award_collectors_on_facebook's avatar
riaa_award_collectors_on_facebook
981 posts
 

Viber,

For Christmas I am going to buy you a copy of ALICE COOPER "Hey Stoopid". Sorry that went over your pretentious head. Guess your musical knowledge is limited to the plucking of strings. On second thought maybe I will get you a KANSAS or Lighthouse CD....ever hear of them? You must have been REALLY Cool to hang with back in the day!!

ricred1
2,005 posts
 
I submit hearing a speaker and owning a speaker are two totally different animals. I could be wrong, but viber6 you appear to make comments about speakers you’ve never owned and in some cases you may not have ever listened to? Everyone has different opinions about what sounds good. There are no absolutes in audio, only preferences. Why can’t some talk about what they prefer without demeaning what others prefer? What I respect about WC the most is he’s letting his ears decide what he likes based on listening. No matter what we think, WC’s ears have the final say so.
pokey77
1,267 posts
 
@ricred1 
@mikepaul
@riaa
X2
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Techno: you can buy a Sasha 2 used for 18k-20k. It totally fits what you are looking for. The Sasha is far superior to the Sabrina due to the time alignment. There’s no lack of resolution with Sasha 2. It’s just a soft dome tweeter which are soft sounding tweeter and don’t sound as sparkly as anything focal does. That said, I can’t say anything bad about focal Sopra 3s. Very good speaker for the money. Wilson Sasha 2 just does something better which is the dynamics. Also, if you need more treble then use the Luxman preamp to get the highs you want out of the Sasha 2s. See why I keep telling you to try the Luxman 900u preamp? It would work fine with Wilson.
With that said, I am recommending you gear I’ve owned this year. This is not based on what he said/she said. I bet $ that Luxman preamp and amp would sound awesome with magico and Wilson. Lastly, Wilson audio sells you resistors that are an easy swap. With these resistors you can add more dB to the tweeter or midrange.  Think about how much flexibility you have here with the tone controls of the Luxman and the ability to swap resistors in the speakers which I said, a drunk person with his eyes closed can do. 
theothergreg
222 posts
 
The self-righteousness on this thread is deafening.
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Ok I’ve said it a million times here and here I go again:
for the money spent, it is hard as hell
to SIGNIFICANTLY improve on what Luxman brings to the table. Is there better? Hell yes but it won’t be a cheap move either. Remember, I’ve owned the Luxman 900u four different times. As a matter of fact, only the Rowland 925s with Luxman 900u preamp dropped my jaw even more because it sounded like
the Luxman combo but on steroids. That combo was spectacular, but how much more are those amps? $60k..
If any of you have followed my thread and want to spend the best 18-20k in a used amp and preamp then buy the Luxman 900u combo. You have an intoxicating, huge soundstage that will impress you.
Hell, my Rowland 925 buyer told me the other day if he ever downsizes he will go back to the Luxman 900u combo. Enough said.
tomcy6's avatar
tomcy6
2,589 posts
 
Please post about how good your turntable is in an appropriate thread.  This is WC's thread and we are following his journey.  Aren't there enough My vinyl is the best threads already?  Same goes for Tektons, please.
grey9hound
1,112 posts
 
@tomcy6
This is an open forum . It is not owned by the OP or anyone else . People are allowed to post their thoughts and opinions about whatever they want, as long as it is civil. Everything in these forums is someones opinion anyway. Moderators will not, and do not ask people to refrain from posting in a thread , so .... get over it already.
thezaks
712 posts
 
@tomcy6
WC has had plenty of opportunity to nix different discussions, and has historically chosen not to do it. Additionally, I agree with mikepaul’s comments above.
Dave
viber6
2,448 posts
 
RIAA,
I am looking forward to meeting you at the concert Dec 16.  Your gift of Alice Cooper's Hey Stoopid is thoughtful and I hope I will be amused.  Of course I know you are an excellent speller, so I was just creating fun with stoopid, started by you, and I just went with it.  And yes, plucking is the essence of a lot of music.  All string instruments are either plucked or bowed.  Wind instruments and singers use blowing.  Percussion uses banging.  So all music can be reduced to plucking, bowing, blowing or banging.
viber6
2,448 posts
 
For the record, WC has the most experience of anyone here lately.  He has said that the electrostatics he has owned have the most resolution and natural tonal qualities.  But he also loves big dynamics, where dynamic speakers have the advantage.  The Neo could very well be the best speaker for his preferences, since they do the combination of resolution and dynamics better than any other speaker.  The Magico had the most extended HF but not as natural and detailed midrange as the Neo.  So he optimized the HF of the Neo by boosting the treble via the Dag integrated.  I hope his wife agrees to  keep the cabinets out of the audio space behind the Neos.  She has an interest in keeping WC happy.

Happy Thanksgiving to all.
riaa_award_collectors_on_facebook's avatar
riaa_award_collectors_on_facebook
981 posts
 
Before you get too excited Viber I was joking about attending your performance. I am a SERIOUS NFL Fan/Fantasy Football player so Sundays I am a complete couch potato from Sept thru Dec.  I am deeply sorry I will also miss your Solo performance in the Mens Room. Hopefully the other guy will give us all a detailed review...and perhaps send out Bootleg copies for us not fortunate enough to attend.  Make sure you hit up THE PRINCETON RECORD EXCHANGE on Tulane street if its open on Sundays...if youve never been there that is.  You stated previously you live in New York so you might not know about this place.
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Happy Thanksgiving to all of you who contribute on my thread and those who follow it. I never thought this thread would come this far.
In order to lighten the mood, here are a few non-audio related facts about me:

1. i love limes (i’ve had a lime everyday since i was 5)
2. i love anything spicy, but now that i am older my stomach does not do well as it once did when i was young (shocker)
3. i don’t mind beer, but i am more of a tequila/lime guy
4. i can’t get myself to drink Whisky. I dont know how some of you do it
5. i served in the military (Army)
6. i used to street race my white Camaro SS back when i was in my 20s,
7. i was a mustang guy until i got my @ss handed to me each time i raced a Chevy
8. i can’t dance to save my life
9. i despise people who abuse animals
10. i need a balance in my life. i can’t just work work work and have little time to do what is of interest to me or else i suffer from mild anxiety when too stressed out.
11. i don’t believe in saving every dime i make in order to be better tomorrow because tomorrow may never come so living today while still planning for tomorrow is key.

there you have it!
grey9hound
1,112 posts
 
WC
I think i have asked before , but I would really like to hear which songs really stand out as sounding good on your equipment.You said that Electronic Music sounded really good. Which songs or Artists really make your speakers "Shine" so to speak. I know I have a list of songs in jRiver Media Center Under the Playlist I created called "Demo Songs"
These are songs that sound really good on my system . Do you have such a list either in your head or written down .
Does anyone else have this type of compilation, or even thoughts on some good "Demo" songs.
dasign's avatar
dasign
201 posts
 
grey9hound,

I agree with WC on the recorded audio quality of many electronica/edm musical tracks.

Here is a representative sample of well recorded electronica/edm I listen to from Roon/Tidal:

Track/Artist/Album

  • Cacao/Bruce/Sonder Somatic 
  • Radius/Daniel Avery/Slow Fade EP
  • Resynthesis/Max Cooper/World Passing By
  • Blood on my Hands/Shackleton/Blood on my Hands
  • Olympus Mons/People Plus/Olympus Mons
  • Acid Lab/London Modular Alliance/INTLBLK006
  • Yol/Konduku/Emerald Island
axememan's avatar
axememan
279 posts
 
How would a brand new Schiit Audio Loki Eq stand up to the Rane?Viber6?I know It has limited control/Freq knobs[4 Band EQ] but it seems as if it too may be a beneficial EQ.New $150.00..I actually bought one off of Ebay[while drinking ] and did not notice that it was the "DSD" Loki that Schiit had sold a few years ago and stopped production.They repurposed the name and I did not notice what it was until it arrived at my house.So,I have a DSD box that I don’t see me ever using.Isaw a few of those Ranes for sale in the Guitar Center used section.One was $69.00...plus the shipping.its gone now
grey9hound
1,112 posts
 
good stuff there dasign
corvette01
99 posts
 
WC,
I had the chance to see a pair of Neoliths today at a Chicago dealer,didn’t hear them though.Very impressive even just to look at!Congrats with your new speakers!Hope they help you in your quest for the absolute sound!
Post removed 
viber6
2,448 posts
 
axememan,
Good discovery about the Schiit EQ. Although the Rane ME 60 is a stereo 32 band 1/3 octave unit, the simpler Schiit may work nicely.  You can still get enough flexibility to modify tonal balance to your liking.  Whether its electronics are as transparent as that of the Rane, that's another matter which you could investigate by getting both at a cheap price.  But don't forget the payoff by being able to use either EQ unit as a line stage and eliminate the electronics of your present line stage.  Mrdecibel and I have determined that the Rane as a line stage is more transparent than most of them, with the possible exception of super expensive ones.  As much as I respect mrdecibel's musical expertise, I find it strange that he doesn't see the need for EQ in his systems.  After all, we are always trying to improve on a designer's chosen preferenes, and there is really no product that is perfect according to our individual preferences.  EQ is the most impactful and cheap way to do this.  If you really want a more powerful amp, the EQ won't give you that, but it goes a long way in other aspects.  WC has a very simple EQ in the Dag integrated unit, but it is enough to correct his only reservation about the Neo, the diminished HF compared to Magico. 
mrdecibel
3,063 posts
 
WC, a lime every day since five; was that with a tequila shot ? lol.  My Mac preamps ( I have had a few ) with the 5 tone controls, would never compare to the flexibility of a Rane ( or any other 1/3 octave unit ). I am sure the Loki is nice, but depends on what you want. I listened yesterday to the best of Deep Purple ( cd reissue ). Honestly, I could not believe the Neos sounding better than my system, with whatever amp was used ( simply based on What I Want ). I cranked it. I believe the Neo might be the most dynamic ELS out there, but they are still an ELS. Give me a pair of JBL DD 67000. Anyone ? Please, do not get me wrong, as I believe there is no best for everybody. I am glad for this thread, for wc's journey, and for the comradery shown here ( for the most part ). Enjoy your Thanksgiving everyone ! MrD.
viber6
2,448 posts
 
RIAA,
Although your football is exciting, making music is a similar physical activity, although not as draining.  Then again, watch the sweat off a conductor's face.  Once I played the very fast opening movement of the Beethoven Kreutzer Sonata during a summer performance.  I brought a towel to take care of me after I flew into it like a race car driver.  Just search on youtube to see and hear how exciting a piece it is.  After a brief meditative intro, it takes off.

Oh yeah, I have been going to the Princeton Record Exchange for over 25 years.  I live in NYC, but am in the area on the weekend.  I would go through the bins on the floor for 3 hours, then go to Thomas Sweet for their SOTA blending machine for ice cream with your chosen additions.  My favorite was sweet cream ice cream with malt balls, Reese's pieces.  Aren't you surprised to hear I like sweet things, if not sweet electronics? 

brhatten
34 posts
 
WC, Thanks for sharing more about yourself. I like limes too, but mostly with Vodka.   :)
dguitarnut
136 posts
 
Viber, since it’s Thanksgiving aren’t you going to state that Cornish hens are every bit as tasty and traditional as a turkey specially when served on a Rane silver platter?
Happy thanksgiving y’all......don’t blow out your Tektons or burn up your dinky little amps while showing off your giant killer system to family and friends! Lol....this is fun..........
My thanks to all in this thread for the entertainment provided and the good fortune we have to be free and able to enjoy good music and the means to buy our toys.
And last but not least we all can be thankful for having some of our hearing left and that the tinnitus has not worsened.
Again Happy Thanksgiving!
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
@dguitarnut cheers !
wesc
10 posts
 
I have been following this thread for months and am pretty sure I have read the entirety. I cannot tell you how helpful and entertaining it is. It’s an amazing journey and I appreciate that it is a real world experience and you say exactly what you think, but as you make new discoveries you acknowledge and update your opinion.

I am so happy you have the Neoliths in house, your journey was always going to require it. I cannot wait to see where it goes.

I also want to give a shout out to guidocorona. The master set speaker placement was an amazing experience for me. It focused the sound in my room so much I actually had to back off a bit.

My system...
First I have a huge room. I live in an old store front, my entire place is basically one room. Starts out 18 wide expands to 22 wide is over 6o feet long. 13 foot tin ceilings. We tend to have music on all day and rarely sit in the sweet spot, although I do have specific vinyl listening session in the sweet spot.

Esoteric F-05 integrated. I have to say the reason I brought this integrated in was that it has Bass - Midrange - Treble tone controls.

Sonus Faber Olympica III

REL T7i sub bass hooked up to the B speaker terminals with the neutrik connection, Audience Ohno cable.

Acoustic Zen Satori Bi-Wire Spaker Cables

Auralic Altair Wireless streaming Dac

Rega Rp8 with apheta II cartridge

I have paused here. I realize high end audio is such a process and an education. There is so much to learn, and my ears need to learn too, following your journey has been very helpful.

ps... I love it when you post your wife’s opinion. My wife has better hearing and a different sonic taste from me, so when your wife chimes in I find her opinion valuable. 
Ag insider logo xs@2x
greginnh
382 posts
 
WC,

Thanks for spending the time and money to keep informed about your journey. I suspect that many of us are living vicariously through your process.

I have been going through a similar process but on a much, much smaller scale.

Having just sold my Gryphon Diablo 300 and now auditioning the Luxman L-509X, I find that your previous posts about these two integrated amps are “spot on”. Unless you need massive bass slam, the L-509x has to be the deal of the century-given its performance and features.

I am now at the point of deciding whether to keep the L-509X or bite the bullet and get the Luxman 900 combo. It has been the only gear that has drawn me in emotionally to the music without trying to analyze the sound.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family!
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
@wesc thank you for posting here and following my journey. I will be revisiting some amplifiers from the past just to see how they will do with my Neoliths. For instance, I have a Plinius sa103 coming next week because I want to see how it does with my Neolith. I want to try class a with them.
I wish my room was as big as yours wesc. Lovely room you got !
Keep following my journey because it’s going to get better and better. Yes I know some people will have their opinion, but I respectfully either agree or disagree with what anyone says.
At the end of the day, everyone should just sit and watch my struggles and wins because YOU NEVER KNOW when you’ll be able to purchase some of this stuff and actually bring it to your own home. 

Stay tuned for my impressions of the Plinius 103 with my neoltihs ! 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
@greginn Thanks for your comments. As far as the Diablo vs Luxman 509x, yes I said that it really depends on the speaker. I personally think the Luxman is just incredible for the money spent. That said, the integrated will give you a lot of the 900u combo and I could even say it’s just as good unless you have hungry speakers. 
By going from the Diablo to the Luxman you give up muscularity and gain mids with more sweetness. You also gain more musicality that makes you not want to get off your seat. Both are outstanding pieces. 

viber6
2,448 posts
 
duitarnut,
Funny. I can see mrdecibel advising using the Cornish hen on a resonance-free Rane silver platter, on a resonance-free dining table. Make sure the meal is smooth so you don’t have resonances of lingering gastro-esophageal reflux. And yes, let’s be thankful for our freedoms. Make money honestly and try to get value for your money by evaluating what sound you get for your honestly made dollar and hard work.
viber6
2,448 posts
 
 WC,
Right now, the 2 most important parts of your system are the Neo and the tone control circuit of the Dag.  I hope your Dag has the ability to use the tone control plus preamp section, and then output that into other power amps.  If not, then even the world's best preamp/power amp without the tone controls will not be as good as what you presently have.  Also, is it possible to use your Dag as a stand alone power amp with use of another input preamp?  Again, I don't think that this option will be as good as the complete Dag with its tone controls intact.  Thus, the tone controls or another form of EQ is vital.
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