To be quite clear....
I don’t rely on magazines for any of the choices in this industry. What I have done is made my choices on a variety of audio salons and the people behind the amplifier designs. Spent over 20 years designing high end audio systems, and know what sounds good to me. I’m an engineer and understand a little more than the regular guy. The statements that you made about Simaudio Moon amps hold some weight, even though I have not heard them. But the images and electronics in the pictures that I have seen, lead me to believe that Simaudio has a very strong chance of being a major power in the amplifier industry.
Just to keep the record straight, I have 20 years of experience of sound reproduction, and designing high end 2 channel systems for the rich.
Sure, the warmth in SS amps as of right now has been something that I have not had the chance to evaluate enough as you have. Audio Salons are 5 hours away from me now. I’m in Northern Florida.
But I do understand everything else to what it takes to have a high current amp with proper power supply and transformers, capacitors and the output transistors to make for a behemoth of an amplifier that produces sound properly.
Magazines are a start for research. They don’t hold the answer. Synergy of components are the key, and for 20 years, I could put the synergy in the systems I would design for my customers. Just an FYI. I am not even close to a magazine closet audiophile.
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Viber6 I like your tastes! They are similar to mine! Haha |
I agree with WC I started out with vinyl with my technics tt but all my records were ruined in a basement flood. Never played them again. Now I just stream!
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If it’s Neoliths, I ´m of the same opinion as Viber6. It will be the same story as the 15A . A resale sooner or later.
Why? Same technology as the 15A. Just bigger panels and more powerful bigger woofers. There will not be more clarity.
And no way will the bass be as fast, accurate and well integrated as the Magico.
If it’s the Alexia 2, that will be imho another story. They will be a more fun speaker to listen to, with huge dynamics and bass you will feel in the chest.
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bigddesign3,
Thanks for your interesting comments on CD. Totally agree. As for vinyl, many years ago I had a well functioning relatively cheap Denon 305 cartridge on the Alphason HRS titanium tonearm on Goldmund Studio TT. Listening to the same recordings on LP and CD, the LP was MUCH more open with HF extension. I did this A/B on much more modest TT with modest cartridges and preamps, and the LP still walloped the CD. Today's CD's and digital recording technologies are much better, and I find CD's good enough to use as material to do extensive A/B tests. With cartridges, you never know from one day to another how the sound may vary vastly, so it is much harder to do meaningful A/B tests. Too many tests will wear out the cartridge. Today my Denon cartridge is so old that now the setup is inferior to the CD, so I need a new cartridge. For my tastes of clarity and brilliance, the Rega Apheta 2 at less than $2000 looks like a great performer at a good value, unlike stupidly expensive things like the top Koetsu or Lyra Atlas. Also, consider stupidly expensive TT like Mike Fremer's Continuum Caliburn. I cornered Fremer at a NY show years ago, and he admitted that the cartridge is the most important and cost effective part of the vinyl setup. For my tastes, a great package might be the the Rega 10 TT with Apheta 2 cartridge, discounted as a package by Music Direct for about $6500, but I will probably save money and just get the cartridge for my own TT/arm. Another problem is that nobody will let you return a cartridge for refund if it doesn't work out. Rightly so, because one slip of the finger will destroy a cartridge. I would never buy a $10,000 cartridge for that reason.
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techno_dude,
Although we agree on most things, I would say that the Neolith or 15A would still be superior to any dynamic speaker for mid/HF clarity. You are probably right about bass, though.
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kw6,
Glad you appreciate my comments and tastes. What is your system?
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WC,
I would love to see your video of the arrival of the speakers. Include yourself smiling and standing next to the big crates and showing your muscles lifting them. Another piece of evidence suggesting that the speakers are the biggest ever, the Neolith. I doubt you are going for the still bigger Magico horn system! I have a friend who had all his systems in a photo album from his early days. Since I have no children, I found this more interesting than the usual albums of the family, etc. Let us know how to access or search for your video on youtube. Do you have any previous videos/pictures that are still on youtube? We consider you family.
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I have been pretty consistent with my guesses of WC’s new components prior, but this time, I am a bit puzzled. I am guessing he is not getting the Neoliths at this juncture. As far as amps, " they are being built as we speak ", so that could mean quite many. How good of a deal can WC get on a brand new pair of amplifiers if they are being built ? If he could get them near cost ( accommodation price ), well this is a game changer, but usually, in this case, based on my experience, a manufacturer says you cannot sell them for a specific amount of time ( a year or two ). WC will only get something that is re sellable for at least a break even point. This is a bigger question than the speakers for me. I might be wrong about the Neoliths, because he has wanted them for so long, and I have been wrong before. Considering his lull here for a time now, he sure has his thread back. I can’t wait. Enjoy ! MrD. |
Mrdecibel: I like the way you are thinking :)
One hint: the Monos retail for $65k. Weight 200 lbs each.
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Well, those hints eliminate the D'Agostino M400s and Moon 888s... |
I couldn’t lock in a deal on the momentums unfortunately. They will come I am sure. It’s all about timing.
The moon 888s are just too ridiculously expensive. |
What about the Sim Moon 880M's? |
No deals and those amps were mainly sold in Europe. They didn’t sell many of those here.
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Could be Pass XA600 monos, maybe Constellation monos. Gryphon monos.
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whitecamaross
for $65K, you may as well go for top-of-the-line, Pass Labs gear.
Happy Listening!
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Tough one to find for that retail price and weight combo! Looking forward to it!
Dave
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I don’t want you all to find out easily... |
so i guess not the vtl sieg series 2... hmmm |
WCSS, We are all waiting for your reveal! What did Friday bring? |
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There is new promising amplifier and cheaper than what have been tested here it is CHORD ELECTRONICS ÉTUDE.
With mono can give 300W in 4 ohms. |
Audio Research REF 160 monos?..nice! |
If it is the Audio Research he is getting the Neolith ! |
It aint Audio Research 160 Monos for sure. I carried those 50 Yards into my house and I assure you I wasn't carrying 200 Pound Amps!! Maybe close to 100 pounds each The Dag 400's weigh 115 Pounds each in the Flight Cases...almost dropped a nut trying to get those out of my car. |
Oh wow..sounds painful...the things we do for love..lol |
Audio Research REF 160 monos
don't weigh 200lbs. I personally think most of the top speakers like 500w/ch or more.
Audio Research REF 160 monos
are extremly good looking.
The Audio Research REFERENCE 750 SE monos are 170lbs and 750w/ch. And they are $65k. Hmmmm. |
The suspense is killing me. Tick tock tick tock |
Ok guys, so i need to give you all an update. A momentum piece has been finally been dealt with and I will be paying for this tonight. I will reveal soon what momentum piece I have bought ;) |
w1000i,
Thanks for mentioning the new Chord Etude. The British like to rate their amps at 4 ohms. This is 150 watts, so at 8 ohms it probably rates 75 watts or so. Bridging will allow 300 watts, but bridging is only comfortable into higher impedances. Forget about using bridged amps into low impedance electrostatics, unless you use high 90 dB efficiency hybrid stats and don’t blast the music. For dynamic speakers it may be OK. In the past, I heard the Chord 1050 stereo model against the higher power versions, and liked the superior articulation and detail from the lower power amp. The Etude may be promising in this aspect. In general, bridging does give more power and fuller sound, but articulation is sacrificed. For example, the Mytek Brooklyn amp reviewer in Stereophile compared a single stereo to 2 bridged monos. He liked the fuller sound of the monos, but noted that the single stereo had the better articulation at the expense of fullness. I found my Bryston 2.5B SST2 to be superior in articulation/detail to the supposedly same design of the more powerful 4B SST2. Unfortunately, WC won’t consider anything unless it is big, expensive, and prestigious. There is so much other great stuff, and thanks to you for bringing the Etude to our attention.
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The 750SE you can get for around 20K for a Demo or used pair simply because nobody wants anything that heavy. There was a Demo pair on Audiogon the last few months...think the dealer was in Arizona. Not sure if they are still on here or not. |
WC,
The Momentum is a good choice for all around neutral/powerful sound. The tonal balance is probably similar to your BAT, so let's see what all that money buys you. Be honest, as usual.
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Well there was a Dag Momentum Pre-Amp listed just in the past few days. Most DAG 400 owners I know prefer the REF 10 to the Dag Pre (Believe it or not). |
riaa...what was your impression of the 160’s?
(aside from the 50 yard trek with them) |
Cant answer your question as they are still BNIB...Sorry Mike! |
ok guys sooooooo today i bought the momentum integrated :)
i will have it next Friday just in time for the new speakers. Yes i know it is only 200 watts per channel, but i can finally say i will have hands on my first Dag piece. Very very excited. How bad will it whip my Diablo 300?
we shall see :) |
Awesome! Very interested in hearing your impressions.
I have the Diablo and have considered the momentum several times. |
Told you all that things will get going once again.... that said, I’m close to the ceiling in terms of what I’ve always aspired to own. Will I ever own the 700k Wilson wamm and the 250k relentless monoblocks? Not part of my plan unless I win the lottery. I never thought I’d be this high up in regards to audio. I’m getting closer and closer.
Sure there are a few things I’d love to try but after that I don’t see anything else in the near future. I don’t see much change for a few years.
Stay tuned for the arrival of the speakers next week... they will have the gryphon Diablo 300, momentum integrated, and the mystery Monos next month....
Would you all be shocked if I decided to sell everything off and keep the momentum integrated, the new speakers and esoteric dac? Remember one thing, the speakers im getting are about 86-87db efficient so I won’t know if the 200 Watts of the integrated will be enough. I remember that one single Luxman amp wasn’t enough for the vivid audios. That said we know that the momentum integrated is probably underrated in terms of power and it’s probably more like 250 watts per channel.
Lastly, I chose these new speakers because several sources said one thing to me which is something I’ve wanted in a speaker which was “ that speaker played small or big in the same fashion. It does both spectacularly” and lately I’ve been having to listen to music at low volumes so my 2 year old doesn’t wake up. This is key for me in a speaker. It must play with all bells and whistles at low and high volumes.
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WCSS,
Are the new speakers 8 ohms? If they are only 4 ohms, you will have 400w/ch out of the Momentum Integrated.
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WC,
In a few years, your 2 year old will have better hearing than anybody you know and will be able to describe what he/she hears. Get the $2000 Mytek Brooklyn Amp which I promise is comparable in clarity/neutrality to anything you are considering, except possibly the Rowland 925, Lux 900u. Let your child A/B the Mytek and/or your BAT against most any big buck amp, and say "Daddy, I need money for my higher education, piano lessons because I have talent, etc. You can save a lot of money and still have great sound." So I suggest concentrating on your quest for SOTA amps, instead of getting side tracked with inferior products merely for your curiosity. Don't get mesmerized by big names, prestige. Most important, realize that SOTA or very close to it doesn't correlate with big money. If you ever win the lottery, the flagship Magico horn will KILL the Wilson WAMM at comparable prices. Aside from electrostatics and ribbons, horns have the lowest distortion and are superior to anything for dynamics. Magico has the wisdom to know this. Then you can consider low power amps which have purer sound than high power amps. If you found a horn speaker "shouty" it was probably an inferior example, poorly set up, etc. I found the Avantgarde Trio horn speaker very natural and lifelike at a NY show years ago, even in a small room! Not TOO expensive, compared to what you are considering. |
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Viber: I totally feel you there but it’s tough for me to make a u turn right now.
Has anyone here heard the momentum integrated? If so, what speakers? I’ve not read ONE BAD review about it or posting by anyone. The general public seems to have the same opinion about it which is that it is an outstanding unit that can take on expensive separates. |
i wonder how this-------->Dan D'Agostino Master Audio Systems Progression Monoblock: $38,000/pair--paired with your ARC REF10, would compare to the D'AG INTEGRATED($45,000)?
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Interesting mike. I really think and this is a gut feeling by the way that the integrated shouldn’t have issues driving most speakers but if the speakers are demanding then it will still drive them but you can’t be doing 95+ dB sessions. I think there’s a cap.
Something tells me that the integrated will make my jaw drop. I just have this weird feeling. I don’t have any issues keeping an integrated if it indeed can best separates or at least come within 90-95%
If I were to bet between the progression Monos with ref 10 combo vs momentum integrated, I’d put my money in the integrated. The momentun components are supposed to be on another level.
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Very much enjoyed reading through this thread over the past day. Found it while researching the Luxman L-509X, which I just purchased and will arrive later next week!
After reading WCSS' comments about the amp it is going to make the next several days very long indeed!
I do have a question, not sure if anyone here can answer or not... the L-509X will be an upgrade from my current vintage Luxman, a CL40 valve preamp and M2000 amp. I'll be parting with the M2000 without hesitation, but my experience with the CL40 is that it's almost magical in its ability to project a holographic, layered, delicate and silky sound stage.
I am wondering if anyone has experience using a separate tube pre with the 509X (doubt anyone has experience specifically with the CL40) and what the results would be? On one hand, I feel like it may be a way to bring out even more of the best of the 509X... on the other hand, based on the glowing reviews of the 509X I realize it could be a bad idea to mess with the synergy and perfection of the 509X.
But tubes -> solid state sounds pretty damned great in my experience.
I'm using a Hegel HD30 DAC as source, into Klipsch La Scala IIs.
Thanks! |
Fenestria!
Interesting combo...indeed |
Jsqt: I didn’t get a chance to do that. However, the Luxman integrated is special. You’ll be very happy. Do me a favor, don’t turn it off. Leave it on and never turn it off. |
@viber6: You said Michael Fremer claims that the cartridge is the most important in a vinyl set up. Take note, if you haven't misquoted him he's wrong.
Consider this: Lets take a pure 10Khz sine wave on a vinyl test record; this means the stylus must change direction 20000 times in one second! Well that's relatively easy, wait till there is some music playing, now there is bass, drums, guitar etc. That little chunk of diamond is being violently buffeted side to side, up and down and in every other direction which can only send shock waves into the tonearm.
Now that kind of shock would never be noticed by insensitive human fingers but what about the bearings in the tonearm? Any play in the bearings would be loosing information and generally creating havoc with the delicate job of transducing the info embedded in the vinyl grooves.
Then the turntable bearing will also contribute to the confusion. Sure many things come into play like resonances in the tonearm, turntable platter or plinth, motor etc.
So it should now be apparent that priority must be given in the following order:
1/ turntable2/ tonearm3/ cartridge
Put another way, a great turntable with an equally great tonearm with a mediocre cartridge with the correct compliance will happily outperform a lesser turntable/arm combo with the very best cartridge.
But don't take my word for it. Easy enough to try yourself. Moral of the long story is not to mindlessly take the word of some 'expert' and then regurgitate such on the forums
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Hi WC,
Do you still have your Simaudio 860 for sale? Please say yes
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