marriage over if i played that song at 100db
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Showing 50 responses by zprr
I imagine tricky in the "marketplace" sealing a deal on series 2 YGs. I wish I could compare hailey 2.2s or sonja 2.2s to Magico 2 and 3. Seem to be great comparators. Still lament not hearing the Mephisto/Pandora combination with Sonja 2.3s recently demoed, which from a couple of long time audiophile/dealer/25+ year show attendees, etc/ was the best they had ever heard across the full gamut of speaker types. And they are one of the few dealers that actually have a demo Mephisto in their shop as WC alluded to. But of course, just a few sets of ears and preferences... |
Agree. Perhaps an open invitation to Agon, Wbf, ashark members to come on your channel would be interesting. Particularly around a specific subject, expertise or those that may be critical of your approach or views/reviews. Let them get on camera. Re: Mikey. He is entertaining. i also respect his knowledge/experience. It is hard to imagine he is unbiased given his representations. Obviously. I trust your opinions more as unaffiliated. That has been your ethos. I think folks see through this pretty easily. Also, making blanket statements about something being superior based on one system in a moment in time, is obviously not conclusive and reeks of salesmanship. But u stick to your truths in joint videos, we will all be watching. thank u |
Awesome WC. Love your attitude and agree we all keep on learning. I am pretty shocked about Cardas sc incompatibility w Gryphon or vice versa, whichever way. Did not realize certain speaker cables could be nonstarters with certain amps. Major ouch. Glad you are enjoying the Luxmans again. Are there certain speaker lines (or specs) that you would NOT recommend the 900u with, in stereo or mono? I believe I have read a post or two warning against certain pairings w the 900u. Take care there everyone. |
A long time in business hi end dealership in my area put together a demo of the YG Sonja 2.3s with the Mephisto last Fall and to their ears it was one of the best sounding systems they had ever heard. They also have found the gryphon cabling works best. A cheaper alternative with apparently good synergy with the Mephisto is Audience. Just sharing one data point/viewpoint. I kick myself for not having gone to hear it. |
Amazing work whitecamaross and great input from all. Hopefully this forum continues into 2018... Whitecamaross - Last summer you mentioned plans to purchase Simaudio's 870A. Did you get a chance to do some comparisons with it, and, if so, how did that amp compare overall to others? I see you enjoyed the 740P at its price point... |
Thank you for the reply whitecamaross! I was curious as I am currently running the Sim 740P, 870A, 780D DAC combo to YG Carmel 2s (small/mid size room) and am debating whether I should switch to the Lux combo or Bel Black in search of some warmth and added soundstage without losing the current articulation and detail... Unfortunately, my dealer doesn't carry the Lux for a demo, as you note it is a small network. Thanks again for all the information you have assembled! |
Hi Whitecamaross, Given your thoughts on sim's 860a, if you get the opportunity to try out the 870a, you may really enjoy. Has all the characteristics of the 860a that you described and may give you those added decibels and headroom that your ears crave and your speakers may demand. Improved performance at lower volumes as well. Of course, would be very curious to hear your impressions/evaluation. Thanks again for all that you have shared. Invaluable info. |
Nice post @psynder and great to hear your perspective as well. It is an interesting question with obviously no rule of thumb that works for everyone. I do subscribe more to Paul’s approach and continue to enjoy new levels that my speakers are capable of. Most recently, I have found this to be the case on improvements to the server and networking side, and continued cabling upgrades. My speaker % continues to drop considerably. I imagine though at some point the speaker’s ’headroom’ will be tapped out and diminishing returns will set in. With luck, a speaker upgrade could happen down the road. Thinking out loud, I’d be particularly interested in breakout of %s by manufacturer or dealer cost vs msrp as it at least seems to me the margin on certain pieces of equipment may be higher than others, but I understand that info unlikely. I also agree with WC’s depreciation point and that it is always a moving target. Looking forward to the shootout WC! |
Thanks for that info and again for all your work WC. I'm sure you all already know this, but I didn't realize how easy it is to use the microphone in your phone as a db measuring device by downloading an app (thought I'd have to buy a meter). Does a decent job, at least for ballpark figures. Interesting to see what volumes I enjoy listening at. Helpful to put this discussion into context. |
Congrats on the move and discovering the Hegel/REF10/Wilson combo. Sounds incredible. Definitely would also be interested in the Simaudio 860 mono vs the Hegel mono comparison to see which characteristics you feel shine for each. The speakers I own I guess are not the easiest to drive, I'm told, and the Simaudio 870a stays fast and smooth with a wide stage at all volumes. As you point out, I am impressed by how relatively cool it is to the touch after hours of play. For what its worth, my speaker specs are: Sensitivity: 87 dB / 2.83 V / 1 m 2π anechoic; Impedance: 4Ω nominal, 3.5Ω minimum. I can only imagine what 2x 860s with the Wilsons will sound like... Envious! |
Really enjoyed your last two videos WC and love the 3rd teaser. I hear my preference but I don’t think holding my iphone to my right ear does it justice ;). Really amazing you are also then getting to do the combo described above. Running Odin myself I can understand how going into the high 80db-c avg and above could make me want to switch out a couple cables (for me this would be less than 5% of the time). I also have experimented w the cardas clear beyond pc. Not sure your comparable low/mid/high volume levels though. I do hope folks keep posting their thoughts on the thread here. It is such a great community and obviously all are welcome. I understand why switching over most/all commentary ultimately to utube may be beneficial. Sounds like some regular contributors have already migrated over. will miss their contributions. Keep enjoying the music! |
Understanding the focus is primarily on stats at the moment, I also would echo how well RELs can complement the lower end for certain dynamic speakers connected directly to the amp posts. My 11 year old REL B3 has been a workhorse and has paired well w Dynaudio Confidence C1s and now my YG Carmel 2s. Moved from a 15x18 room to now a 15 x 28 room and I am still pleased with the pressure and tightness of below 50hz as well as the RELs disappearance. Currently all Simaudio/Moon front end. Man, I would love to hear the Neos... |
Just a thought... as a relative neophyte, the info shared on this chain, especially from those with clearly decades of experience, is invaluable to me and I imagine others. So interesting especially when folks riff off WC's journey and his observations on his quest for amp and speaker synergy (expense aside) and, perhaps, system tweaks later down the road. Love that everyone has their own kind of music they enjoy. Wish I could listen to many of setups previously described on this chain, (e.g. greyhound, wow!) but I will settle with turning it up a bit louder here. Toasting you all. Looking forward to hearing how current WC combo evolves over the weekend... |
Curious folks thoughts on the rankings of the amps at the link below as a general guide. Love that the Block Audio Monos are at the top of the list. Pretty sure WC has already perused. WC, although I can't imagine the amount of work it would entail (which may make it a non-starter), and, of course, the equipment you use for evaluating remains fluid, would such a ranking system (e.g. detail, air, transparency, weight, dynamics, timbre, soundstage width/depth, etc) take away from/add to your qualitative descriptions and comparisons (which we obviously enjoy and find informative as it is)? http://www.audiodrom.net/en/power-amplifiers |
WC - Thanks for all your effort organizing and relaying your findings from the shootout. Sounded like a good time. Curious if your observations would agree with Audiodrom's rank (Block is their #1 rated amp for sound overall thus far and the Titan #3, Simaudio at #2). Aside from this thread, I haven't found any other source that tries to compare many amps/line stages/speakers etc. in one location. And trying to get a sense for whether their rankings can be duplicated. The only two submetrics of 12 that the Titan matched the Block was for 'Bass Management - weight' and 'Clarity and Delicacy - Detail'. The Block set itself apart from the Titan the most for Tonal Accuracy and Spatial Resolution (holography and soundstage depth in particular). Would you agree? (Of course rankings have many caveats/influences, in particular, it appears Audiodrom utilized different equipment for the two comparisons, and the Titan review was a few years before the Block, but I believe they try to normalize for that...if at all possible. They do note that a 90 out of 100 today could be far less say in 10 years from now). Anyway, thanks again, and looking forward to tuning in this year! |
great video. glad the pandora on its way. should be amazing. caught your concerned comment on streaming. have u considered the taiko extreme? obviously steep $ but in league of its own as far as streamer/server. i understand that isn’t the focus of your passion but would help maximize what is coming into the front end. and would be tremendous complement at this level. i know i am not alone in saying it is hard to overstate how good it is |
fantastic WC. excited for the curveballs. sounds like you had a great opportunity to demo the Odin PC. Will be interesting to hear what it does to the Ref10. Perhaps an Odin speaker cable audition to the Neoliths? Probably too early tell but wonder if Odin (or its echelon) will become your baseline similar to the Neolith, the Blocks, the Ref10? |
Thanks WC. I did have the chance to compare 3 preamps in my own system with the Simaudio 870a - the Simadio 740p, Simaudio 850p and arc ref 10. I have been asked privately on how they compared so just to resummarize: Over the span of 2 weeks I had many hours to compare these 3 broken-in preamps in my system. Final notes on the 740p vs the Ref10 in my home system: - Ref10 a touch warmer/richer. 740p can sound a bit thin on certain songs in comparison - Ref10 wider stage. some songs remarkably so - Ref10 a bit more engaging and less fatiguing - Ref10 more bottom weight, but not boomy - same resolution/detail. So, if I had to choose bw these two, definitely Ref10. Perhaps a 15% bump in overall enjoyment. That said I was quite surprised how well the 740p held up. Then I brought home the 850p. Compared to the 740p my jaw dropped. The 850p performed with an increased overall smoothness/liquidity, brought forward recessed instruments w exceptional spacing, resolution increased/inner details on songs I had never heard before, tidied up the soundstage, added coherent bass,...was hard to put a finger on any one exact change. Overall I had never experienced the utter lack of fatigue after playing for hours. Obviously there is quite a price difference between the 740p and 850p. That said, I can see why someone might prefer the Ref10 even in my Sim (amp and DAC) dominated system (vs the 850p). The Ref10 adds a touch of warmth and a wider soundstage and perhaps is a slight touch more forgiving. I think the 850p gets out of the way better to play what is on the recording more than the 740p and the Ref10. I decided to stick with system synergy (which I think may be the primary reason for the slight nod to the 850p vs ref10) as I wasn’t quite ready to build a system around the Ref10 (although I was tempted). I think the 850p and ref10 are incredible and a good example of how individual preferences may vary. |
Hi @goodsource, haha percentages are very tricky and of course subjective based on varying baselines. Above I indicated my overall system enjoyment went up 15% with the Ref10 vs the 740p. Not that the Ref10 was 15% better than the 740p. For me, a 15% increase in overall system performance is very significant. With respect to the 850p, and with my sq preferences, I would have said my overall system enjoyment increased by say ~20-25% over the 740p. Which is huge for me. As always, in my view, there are diminishing returns into the higher price points which I think we all strive to strike the right $ balance... |
jafox - thanks for providing that background. Incredible journey and definitely some ICs in particular to try out based on your recs. ICs seem to be particularly important. For further context, have you experimented with the wireworlds and/or the Nordost 2 series specifically as ICs, PCs or speaker cables? |