My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

ron17,

What's important is not preferences, but the ability to hear the differences.  If you like #1 the least, that is consistent with your preference for a warm, less detailed sound.  If I like #1 the most, that is also consistent with my preference for a cooler, leaner and more detailed sound.  Therefore we can objectively share information, which is the real purpose of any thread.  In the future, if you prefer X to Y, then I know that for my taste, I would be interested in Y.  

So I just listened to the three amp shootout. What got me most was how difficult it is to get the Mágico to sound great. It requires an amp like the Boulder to make it stand up and speak to you. Every other amp paled in comparison. This tells me more about the speakers than the amps. What can I say I’ve been spoiled. The sound went from the best I’ve ever heard to just ok. The lack of dynamics and authority was what I noticed first. Second was the lack of clarity. If I had to pick I think #3 at first impression. I’ll listen again and see.

I wish I had followed this thread earlier.    I checked out Jays You Tube content and was blown away

You never listened to the top Ayre amps or Vandersteen amps?

For under $30K, I'd like to hear a shootout between the Boulder 1160 (or 1161 for the low volume songs on these videos) and the top Boulder 3060, or the winner of the present shootout.  The most useful A/B would be between Boulder 1160 (1161) and the neutral Simaudio 860 V2.  All Jay would need to do is borrow a Boulder 1160 (1161) from Suncoast.

@carey1110

so now that you admitted to hearing "the best you’ve heard to just ok" i want for you to articulate here what you heard between this round of amps and my #1 all time best stereo amp - the Boulder 3060.

I have a sleeping giant in my room that hasn’t been introduced yet. Unfortunately, the pricetag is astronomical. This was supposed to be a trial for me and unfortunately I made the mistake of hearing it in my room and all it took was 30 seconds, zero warm up, and i was reaching for my checkbook.

My Boulder 3060 will be up for sale in the coming weeks since it’s time for me to find it a new home.

My back is sore and in pain after uncrating 1,000 lbs but 30 seconds later i had divorced my 3060.

Folks, please enjoy this 30k dollar amplifier comparison. I did this to shift gears and let you all hear affordable amps. I’m accused of only displaying crazy expensive stuff so this is why I bought those 3 amps. That said, after this comparison wraps up, I’m taking you to the Pinnacle, the Boss, the amp that has schooled me. There is no going back.

Jay

Jay,

I believe most of us have an idea of what you went through and are still going through to maximize the Magico S7’s. The sound with your current system and these 3 amps is much better than "just ok". I remember what you went through to get the Wilson XLF’s to perform their best, and as I recall, you were still bothered by a touch of brightness with those speakers. Thank you for all you do so we can have a glimpse of what is truly possible with high end audio.

BTW (with headphones) I ranked the amps 2 / 3 / 1. They all sounded very good. No doubt boosted by your fine system.

Hey Jay,

What’s going on with your Kronos TT and the move to analog?

I periodically check into this thread to see its progress.

@mglik 

Still waiting on the cartridge. 

@rbach 

Thanks. It's not easy to continue to make progress once you are at the top. Everything is significantly more expensive and the law of diminishing returns is massive. More fun is had with more affordable gear - no doubt. There are simply far more options and more flavors. 

@jays_audio_lab Lol!! Just to keep the record straight, “the best YouTube sound I’ve heard”. Live may differ and I haven’t heard yours live yet. Looking forward to what you have next. I’m guessing big Gryphon. Can’t imagine what will give the Boulder a run. Should be interesting. 

Jay,

Before you part with the Boulder 3060, hopefully you can record the same 2 songs with it so we can objectively compare it to the Sim, Luxman, Constellation.  

What about the Gryphon Apex amp and preamp?

Boulder is still the standard for neutrality/clarity.  Do a blinded A/B with the 3060 and this Boss 1000 lb amp, and let us hear what is so great with the Boss.  I've seen you go through romances with what you think is the GOAT, only soon after to realize that something else is better.  For example, the Gryphon stuff was bested by Boulder.

FINAL ROUND:

PLEASE VOTE and let me know which power amplifier is the king under $30,000!

Here is the poll to vote:

On video #1, I am still deciding between amp 2 and amp 3.  Amp 1 was the worst.  It had a flat, unrefined presentation. Sounded 2-dimensional. Did not seem to present as much material, veiled and muffled.

Still evaluating between 2 and 3.

I'm gonna give the edge to #2 - better bass control, tighter.

So 2, 3, 1 for me on video #1.

My guess is 1=Constellation; 2=Luxman; 3=Simaudio.

Second guess would be 2 and 3 swapped

Just finished the 2nd video and am sticking with my original preferences.  #2, #3 then #1 from really good, to good.  I also found amp #1 flat. The amp seemed to have less mid and top end energy than #3 and #2.  Amp #2 had it all for me.  Detail, midrange body, long reverberation time and more detail on top....#3 had the most top end energy and was a close second.

Thanks again Jay for this exercise, looking forward to the reveal and your thoughts on each amp.

@ron17 +1  

Couldn't have said it better... or even as well!  100% agreement!

Near total speculation on my part since all three amps are pretty close.  I voted #3 on round 2, changing from #1 on round 1, but still wasn't sure.  #2 and #3 are most similar, with varying degrees of warmth and fullness.  So I think that they are Luxman, Constellation.  Lux is probably the most tubelike.  #1 is likely Sim, #2 Lux, #3 Connie.

Just listened to video 2.

Again, amp 1 clearly the worst for me. Veiled, muddy, lacks clarity and dynamics. Fails on most levels. (WC probably agrees, since he really gave amp 1 short shrift on the second track (great track by the way, the Zep instrumental cover or whatever it is).

Amps 2 and 3 again both good, like first video. I think it’s most likely that WC kept the amps in same order from video 1, but wouldn’t shock me if amp 2 and amp 3 swapped here in video 2 compared to first.

I had a hard time selecting between amp 2 and amp 3 the first time, and same here. But I’m also sticking same as previously, giving the edge to 2 here based on better dynamics.

So 2, 3, 1 again for me - same as video 1.

I still think 2=Luxman, 3=Simaudio, 1=Constellation. (but 83% chance I’m wrong based on the number of possible combinations, and that's assuming he kept the order same across both vids)

Great content, WC. Super fun.

Jay

Think you mentioned Lyra Atlas SL?

I waited 6 months for mine.

which cartridge?

I thought I would try a MI cartridge.

Since there are no more Decca London Reference, I bought a Grado Epoch3.

It blew away my Lyra which is now sold

@mglik - Think Jay said he's getting a My Sonic Labs MC cartridge.

I went up to the my Sonic Labs gold cartridge. 

Sweet! I bought a MSL Signature Gold a few months back and LOVE it. Although it does take at least 25+ hours to break-in. Initially it sounds OK but after 25+ hrs it is AMAZING. VTF is very critical with this cartridge.

(Dealer disclaimer)

Awesome 😎

Based on what Jay said, that the Luxman and Constellation are in the warm camp, and Simaudio is more neutral, I believe #1 is the Simaudio, not the Constellation.  In Jay's survey several years ago, the Simaudio was rated well for its neutrality, but that was when he used warm preamps like ARC, Luxman, D'Ag.  Now using the Boulder 3010 preamp which is highly detailed and ruthlessly revealing, the Simaudio amp could be revealed as having some problems.  I did find #1 (probably the Simaudio) to be constricted and somewhat threadbare in the midrange, but that's only by comparison to the fuller midrange in the other two amps.

So far the votes in both rounds favor #2, which I believe is the Luxman.  That fits with the majority of the tastes on this thread, which is for warmer, fuller sound.

I also preferred 2 & 3 over 1. But, of course, this is using my airpod pros or whatever through youtube. As perhaps the only user of 860a v2s following/participating on this thread at the moment (monos in my case), I can vouch that there is nothing threadbare in the midrange in my system listening to those same tracks. They sound vastly different (thankfully) than any of the 3 recordings in fact (I understand many of you have better headphone/etc setups to listen to these comps). And, I definitely enjoy comparing head to head through Jay’s recordings and agree with their value.

That all said, I cannot wait to hear the results of the reveal and will fully embrace the results if the 860a is the #1 amp in the order. I am definitely not in the camp of enjoying warmer sound, but I don’t know how many would actually describe themselves in that camp either on this thread. Also, viber, I agree a recording of those first two tracks using the 3060 would be helpful as a baseline/for the record going forward, fwiw.

Thanks again for the excellent shootout Jay.

I am eagerly awaiting to learn about the "sleeping giant"!

John Atkinson in Stereophile April 2022 described the Luxman M 10X as neutral/colorless, but that is in reference to his Parasound JC 1+ which he thought sounded identical to the Luxman.  He found the JC 1+ warmer than the original JC 1.  He prefers the JC 1+ to the JC 1.

Beware taking anyone's comments as the gospel truth, since what JA describes as neutral I would probably find somewhat warm.  When Jay described the Sim 860 v2 as neutral with some warmth, that is probably in comparison to his Boulder 3060 which is probably more neutral and of course more revealing.

Anyone who claims that the luxman m10x sounds the same as the parasound jc1+ needs to get their ears checked. I've owned both and the only thing the parasound monos do better than the luxman or any of the 3 amps i displayed is the bass. Jc1 monos are great with regards to bass. 

Folks, i think today is the day in which i will release the results and also which amplifier was which. Stay tuned. 

As a side comment from this shootout, it seems that Gryphon Apex has likely topped Boulder 3060 in WC’s eyes, based on his short vid. Bit of a surprise for me if that is right (figured Boulder might be better), but not sure what else it could be

First, thank you for this shoot-out. It was a terrific experience -- as well as unique.

I was pleasantly surprised that the amplifier I preferred, the Sim Audio's Moon 860 V2, is the one that was essentially neutral. However, it got me thinking of one potentially paradoxical aspect of this shoot-out and other listening experiences on your channel as well. What if my amplifier is also "warm" and adding to it the warmth generated by the other two amplifiers simply made it too warm? Now, I think that I do prefer a neutral (if there really is such a thing) sound and the addition of warmth doesn't work well for me, so the Moon amp was the one I instantly and clearly liked the most. I suppose my question is how do we, the subscribers, best audition the components you demonstrate sonically if our systems are already colored?

Hard to say but I'm guessing good quality headphones and a DAC might be the best way since you eliminate a ton of other components (i.e. speakers , xlr, the room, etc etc. )

Yeah but what's flawed with that approach is other things in "your" system will be adding warmth, color and the like. It's a combination of everything that makes the sound you are after IMO. 

I nailed the identities of the three amps, along with their objective sonic characteristics.

Jay, please record the same two (or four, but two would be enough) songs on the Boulder 3060 and the new "Boss" amp. That is the best way to reveal their differences, and to show how they are on a higher level than the three good amps just presented. I also want to see how the reasonably priced Boulder 1160 or 1161 amps compare to the three amps already presented. Mike at Suncoast would probably let you borrow an 1160 or 1161.

Thanks again for the educational and fun shootout.

Glad that I preferred the Luxman. Figured I’d like Sim more than Constellation. Still can’t believe how poor the Simaudio sounded on the videos. Maybe different in person, who knows

This should be a perfect example of what preferences are all about.

This shootout was for you all to choose blind folded and then to see where the rest of the world stands. My personal opinion as to which amp I’d buy if i were to build a system will be part of the members-only section of my site.

What i can say is that if you selected luxman, you won’t be disappointed. Actually, none of these amps would disappoint.

Before i forget, a local audiophile will be be bringing his stereo essence amp. You all know what follows right ? 😂

Essence versus luxman gentlemen...you have made today’s video very well received by the YouTube algorithm which has helped me with new subscribers. That’s the kind of help i need from you guys and the easiest way for me to get the hint that you want more of this type of content. If you support my channel, you have my word I’ll follow through and listen to your wishes. We are about to go out with a bang so prepare yourself to see the M10x go to battle with Gryphon.

Lastly, If that video performs amazing, then i think an affordable DAC shootout is unavoidable 😁

Cheers 🥂!

Absolutely great video. With detailed commentary that really would inform decision making. Agree w the comment that the 860a v2 gives you a blank sheet of paper and opportunity to draw. I have heard it go through many evolutions here in my system.  And they, for me, continue to impress.  

thanks again Jay. 

Jay, it's fine to hear the G Essence against the Luxman, but please use the same songs and recorded levels so we can go back to the shootouts and hear the Essence against the Sim and Connie amps as well. 

According to the Connie sales rep Irv Gross several years ago, the cheapest Inspiration was sonically comparable to the bigger Centaur.  At medium high power, the Inspiration would be an outstanding buy ($11K at the time).  I actually chose the Connie Taurus (#3) on the 2nd round over the other two amps for the combination of the Connie's good clarity and smoothness.

Gryphon versus Luxman should be great.  The consensus winner from the first shootout versus a known good amp.  Hope you keep it blind like before, but that's probably a no-brainer.  Thanks for the efforts.  I bet YT loves the variety in terms of traffic and signups

Luxman M10x vs Gryphon Essence, followed by an affordable DAC shootout....hell yeah

Hell yeah--how about Chord DAVE vs MSB Select, for clarity and detail?  Jay, I think you heard the DAVE in your room a few years ago--comment?

If you can only get the cartridge before you get older, that may "school" you to the point where you ditch the uber expensive digital stuff and be content with something like DAVE.

I’m not comparing my select 2 to an affordable DAC. The narrative will be endless about how a 10k dac destroyed a 120k (sure thing !)

There is a reason why Alon Wolf doesn’t let anyone record the M9 in the factory or Wilson Audio with the WAMM.

IF they ended up doing such videos, they don’t prove a thing nor do they win anything other than people creating narratives about how such speakers aren’t worth the money blah blah blah etc etc. Yet, none of these individuals who would criticize such statement speakers have the finances to buy such speakers to begin with. If someone had serious interest in buying such speaker, I’m sure they aren’t hurting for money and can easily fly in to hear the speaker in the factory.

I totally understand their positions and I’d do the same to be honest. It’s no coincidence that you don’t see a Bugatti Veyron racing Honda Civics on YouTube... No reason to...nothing to gain from such stupid race...doesn't matter if a souped up Honda civic beats the Bugatti...it's still a Honda Civic... 

Nice job Jay.  I have been a Luxman fan for decades having owned dozens of their pieces.  Although I just sold my Luxman separates (trying to simplify my system) I cannot think of a better all-around choice at this price point either.

Aqua La Scala or Formula

dCS Bartok

MSB Discrete or Premier

Weiss 501

Lumin X1

Chord Dave

Playback Designs Edelweiss

I hope some of the above make it into the dac shootout

Jay,

Your weakness is clinging to your contention that expensive stuff almost always wipes out reasonably priced stuff.  On your previous DAC shootout between the MSB and DCS Rossini, you said that it is foolish to spend more than $30K on a DAC.  In that shootout, I preferred the MSB by a hair.  Now is your chance to A/B the Chord DAVE against the MSB.  Some readers here own the DAVE and are very happy with it, and kren0006 just requested inclusion of the DAVE in the shootout.

You are afraid of the possible outcome that enough people will vote for the Chord DAVE (or comparably priced other DAC) in a blinded shootout with the MSB. Similarly, Alon Wolf is afraid (but won't tell anyone) that recordings of the M9 against much cheaper speakers will not show the supposedly vast superiority of the M9.  I predict right now that I would prefer the S7 against the M9 because I don't like the tonal balance of the M series.

Alon Wolf certainly has excellent qualifications as a former violinist with current technical competence.  But he said he is no longer an amateur audiophile, but now he is a business man.  Note that "amateur" literally means a "lover" and doesn't imply that an amateur is less competent than a professional.  In short, he is primarily focused on making as much money as possible, and the same is true for you.  Nothing wrong with that, since I believe in free market capitalism.  But a few business people are successful by engaging in open minded exchange of ideas and experiences, without bias for selling overpriced stuff.  They earn the highest trust from their customers by doing that.  

As for you, you stretched your finances to get the Boss amp.  You also did the same to get the outstanding Boulder 3010 preamp.  Both of them are worth the money to you for their significant virtues.  I would predict that the DAVE would give the MSB tough competition, and you could save lots of money for things like the Boss and 3010 that make much bigger differences in your system than the MSB.

Viber - feel free to buy the chord dave and send to me like you did with your amp?

I'm game... Let me know how you want to do this. 

That’s funny. Viber telling WC what WC’s weaknesses are. Good one, Viber. I think your weakness is that you assume WC cares, even a little bit, about what you think. He doesn’t.

Many of us, myself included, will make suggestions or requests, as I’ve done above, but never issue commands ("do this in the test"), demands ("record using these songs;" "do dac-direct" (the all-timer)) or accusations ("your weakness is ...") as you do almost daily.

WC will probably use whatever he has ample access to, and we’ll all get to benefit from his generosity with his time and funds. I am continually surprised by how you repeatedly instruct him to do certain tests or shootouts, or perform them in a certain way. He doesn’t listen to you - take a hint.