My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series NAD M25 PARASOUND HALO PARASOUND CLASSIC KRELL TAS KRELL KAV 500 KRELL CHORUS ROTEL RMB 1095 CLASSE CT 5300 CLASSE CA 2200 CLASSE CA 5200 MCINTOSH MC 205 CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7 OUTLAW AUDIO 755 LEXICON RX7 PASS LABS XA 30.8 BUTLER AUDIO 5150 ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer. My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes) Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp. Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either. Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Yes, Nordost cables are directional. This is especially true for single ended (RCA) interconnects as the shield is connected at the source or output end only.
Which way do directional arrows point on Nordost cables?
The directional arrows always point away from the source. For example, from a CD player to an amplifier, the arrows should point towards the preamplifier or power amplifier. On a speaker cable the arrows would always point towards the loudspeaker
How can cables be directional?
When cables are manufactured they do not have any directionality. However, as they break in, they acquire directionality. Although the cable signal is an alternating current, small impurities in the conductor act as diodes allowing signal flow to be better in one direction over time. This effect is also called quantum tunneling, which has been observed in experiments over 25 years ago. Regardless of the purity of the metal used, there are still diode effects in all conductors. In addition, the insulation material will change when it is subjected to an electrical field.
Nevertheless, balanced cables should be controlled for directionality at the factory just like any other type of cable, no? Power cords, too. What’s the point of any test of anything if the cables are in the wrong direction?
Hello Geofff, doing directionality tests on speaker wires is often feasible, but directionality tests on XLR signal wires and PCs may involve major conversion plugs acrobatics, which all by themselves would invalidate any results.
The moment has arrived. I will be doing a comparison of the nordost Odin 1 PC vs Odin 2 PC plugged into my DCS. The speaker cables are still odin 1, standard PCs on the pass amps since I need to take one of them to compare it. I’ll need to first let the Odin 2 settle in the system for about 24 hrs before I do any critical listening. Everything will be plugged into the wall, moderate volume levels. I also will be receiving cardas clear beyond xlr on Monday which will be compared against my Platinum 8 Wireworld.
WC, thanks for the very nice Christmas present. Like many, I've been following since near to, or at the beginning. I've enjoyed all the twists and turns and how you've ordered your journey. Looking forward to 2020 and all your observations. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to your and your family and to all following this thread.
Any thoughts on the
Lampizator vs Boulder preamplifiers? We realize both weren't present at the same time but any comparisons you can make would be insightful.
@kstaken "that photo of the salons on that rack makes me nervous just looking at it. Seems like such narrow contact footprint for such a tall speaker."
I wouldn't do it if there were a five year old present, and the door is closed to keep the dog out when I'm not around. But you can bump them without them moving much.
Merry Holidays to all. The Lampizator Balanced Pacific has been ordered and should be here at Sound Insight in the next few weeks. We auditioned the single ended unit a few days ago and was very impressed with how it compared to the top of the line Esoteric K01XS. Stay tuned.
@p59teitel that photo of the salons on that rack makes me nervous just looking at it. Seems like such narrow contact footprint for such a tall speaker.
@whitecamaross check out modulum audio racks. They make a pretty large amp stand. I’m awaiting delivery of 8 shelves worth of their racks to replace my Box rack and currently have their amp stand in house on loan from the dealer and every component I’ve placed on it has responded with greatly enhanced clarity and broader dynamic range. Not cheap but not stupid expensive given the cost of those Pass amps.
That wouldn't matter, as the amp actually sits on 4 vertical points that stick up from the platform, and doesn't sit on the platform itself. I just added a pic to my system page showing that.
WC, Thanks for your heartfelt appreciation of everyone who contributes to your thread. I appreciate you in the same way. In fact, I just decided to look for a used Nordost Valhalla 1 power cord rather than a new lower grade PC from another company. The Odin 1 is probably the best for me if a super price comes along. I like your strategy of buying used, especially for cables where break in is very important--this is more reliable than buying new.
If you don't want to spend insane money then look at the 3" maple stands with threaded inserts from Butcher Block Acoustics and the threaded footers of your choice.
I really never thought that my posts would generate enough interest that people would actually want to leave a comment.
Here’s the thing. I still experience today that very same overwhelming excitement every time I receive an email notification that a comment has been left on one of my posts. EVERY SINGLE TIME!
Granted, I no longer run around like a chicken with its head cut off when it comes to every single component I come across, but I most certainly do get excited to review the next component and share my thoughts with you all.
I love that people want to leave comments here, not because I’m trying to set some kind of comment record, but simply because each comment leads to an interaction and it is these interactions that motivates me to continue writing and working on my craft every day.
For those of you who have been visiting this site for a long time – I truly thank you for your never-ending support!
And to every other person who has ever read or chosen not to leave a comment don’t think for one moment that I don’t feel incredibly fortunate to have you as a reader and in many cases, as a friend.
THANK YOU FOR THE EMAILS!
To all those who have emailed me over the last few years with questions, comments or just to say hello, let me tell you that these interactions are immensely rewarding to me as well. I encourage you to keep the emails coming as each one I receive quickly leads to an abnormally large smile stuck onto my face. And for anyone who has ever thought about sending me an email, you should never hesitate for even one second and who knows, maybe our paths will cross one day ( I've met some of you at Axpona this year).
ONE LAST THING!
I’d just like to say once again, and this is for absolutely everyone, whether you’ve been hanging around my thread for months or only a few weeks or even if this is your first visit here…
Alright guys , Can anyone recommend good amp stands or platforms for my xs300s so they aren’t on the floor anymore? I’m not looking to spend insane money on them so be mindful of that. The amps are 19 wide by 27 deep. (inches)
Ya, it was in the January issue of Stereophile. I got the impression from the printed review that Kal probably spent far more time setting it up as a multichannel preamp and keep in mind none of his other components are nearly as transparent as yours. I’m sure it’s a good product but I don’t think much can be determined from this review, with lack of comparisons and focus on multichannel.
We are all in agreement that this thread has jumped all the sharks right?
My lord. What a thread. Pretty clear BURNER accounts BEING used BY many PEOPLE that love to occasionally WRITE IN ALL CAPS.
Then, we have...Viper, piping in about all sorts of things he has never owned or heard.
Topped off by the fact that the OP’s room has changed at least 3 times. Equipment is being compared with completely different speakers, rooms, and combinations. Rendering all previous comparisons moot.
But, it is however impressive that it keeps going. CONGRATS.
@whitecamaross really great updates! Definitely matches my experiences with dCS. The upsampler, especially with DSDx2, has this liquid, analog sound that’s really giving my analog rig a run for its money. For the speaker cables, I know you had mentioned you had tried Transparent in the past and found them warm. My experience is that Nordost leans a bit bright. It’d be interesting if you could get your hands on some Transparent speaker cables. You have a very different system now and I wonder how they’d do. Seems worth a tryout before dropping Odin 2 money.
Didn’t see any updates about the Boulder. Still in use? I’m eagerly awaiting the 2110 preamp delivery.
@jonaiken Yes I found the upsampler more impressive. As far as the m400s, I plan to bring those in 2020 right before they are replaced by the m500s. Next year there should be plenty of m400s on the used market. Word on the street is that the new m500s will be displayed by the end of next year.
WC - I see you came to the same conclusion on the dCS Upsampler vs the clock that I did. The improvement with the Upsampler is huge.
BTW I had my WC moment this weekend and auditioned the D’Agostino M400 Monoblocks in my system and was blown away. They took my system to new heights and made me realize it is time to move away from my ARC 250SE’s. The M400’s are the real deal.
Thank you WC, will you have the opportunity of exercising various filters and upsampling levels?
Few years ago, when I had the opportunity of having tEsoteric K-01 in my system for a substantial spell, I found that upsampling rates and various filter settings made a remarkable difference in the outcome.
In conclusion for nordost Odin series in terms of added sound quality change: Odin 1 Pc > Odin 1 Speaker cables Odin 2 speaker cable > Odin 2 PC
As far as the Dcs clock and upsampler when connected to the dac : The upsampler yields greater sound benefits by itself than the clock does by itself so if you need to choose one box for your dcs dac then choose the upsampler first and later down the road get the clock.
This is confusing...think maybe you need to edit for it to make sense.
"I also want to say that the Nordost odin 2 DID NOT make a bigger improvement than the nordost odin 2 speaker cable which is actually the opposite with the Odin 1 series. Odin 1 power cords seem to have more of an impact in sound than the Odin 2 speaker cables, but now the tables have turned for the Odin 2 series."
Ok so today i had a chance to audition in my own home the DCS Clock, Upsampler, Nordost odin 2 Pc and speaker cables. First thing we did was to connect the odin 2 pc on the DCS dac and everything else remained the same:
Odin 2 pc: More tactful bass with greater separation. i also felt as if it added more focus with less smear than the Shunyata Alpha NR i was using. I did not compare it to the Odin 1 pc i own because those are connected to my pass labs monos.
Up next: we went back to the Shunyata Alpha NR on the dac and swapped my odin 1 speaker cables for the Odin 2 speaker cables:
Odin 2 speaker cables: with only 10-20 hours of use, these are FAR FAR BUT I MEAN FAR better than my Odin 1 speaker cables. I believe Nordost heard all customer feedback when it comes to their Odin 1 speaker cables which was that they can be somewhat bright at times, but they somehow managed to keep all the resolution and squeezed out all brightness from this Odin 2. The space between the instruments went from being inches apart to now being a foot or more. Better bass impact, and just this feeling of coherence. It felt as if my speakers were more uniform and more like an electrostatic. Overall, this is the best speaker cable i have heard in my set up.
Next, we began to use the upsampler, but we left the Nordost Odin 2 speaker cables in place. Here is what i heard:
DCS Upsampler: I heard a HUGE IMPROVEMENT at all levels. I was able to crank music to very loud levels and now the DAC did not have "digital artifacts". I never cringed or heard any hint of brightness at all. It was as if it became more analog and i was listening to something else besides digital music. The upsampler made ALL RECORDINGS sound beautiful. i felt like it brought a ton of information towards the center, sides, top and bottom and served them to you on a platter. i was actually shocked at the improvement presented.
Up next: we unplugged the upsampler and connected the clock with just the dac and everything else the same:
DCS CLOCK: The sound improved for the better. Things sounded more accurate, instruments had more palpable feelings and there was less "grain" felt in the music. That said, this was NOT as good as the improvement the upsampler brought. The upsampler simply took things to a whole other level.
Towards the end, we left the upsampler plugged in and went back to my nordost odin 1 speaker cables. This was shocking HOW MUCH music had left my system when i went back to my Odin 1. It sounded more "muffled" in comparison. I am still shocked how amazing those Odin 2 speaker cables are. They just pull you into the music and just really open up your system to an entire new level. I can’t believe it, but yes i am with my mouth open with those cables. I also want to say that the Nordost odin 2 powercord DID NOT make a bigger improvement than the nordost odin 2 speaker cable made by itself. However, Odin 1 power cords seem to have more of an impact in sound than the Odin 1 speaker cables, but now the tables have turned for the Odin 2 series.
I really enjoyed every single thing i heard and now that my system is back to "normal" i find myself scratching my head and thinking what just happened here. I will need to figure out how to move up to those Odin 2 speaker cables down the road. When those speaker cables left my room i felt like they took the entire soul of my system with them too.
@whitecamaross ,Sorry to hear about your back.Since you are paying $$$$$ to the dealers I suggest that you should let them come over and do the setups. At least in a few mags the reviewers have indicated that for some of the equipment you own/once owned, the dealer would come home and set it up for you.Take care of your back and health. Music will always be around. Hope you are able to find the right combination of components soon.
I have no problem with what your doing WC and if you can make any amount of profit good 4 u. There are some people who will always attack someone and who knows why.
I find it amusing sometimes when a gear you like so much is gone so quickly and you have no patients to really break in most pieces you have in properly or why it took you so long to have your speakers set up correctly but hey you don't need to answer to anyone on this thread. its your thread and your money have fun.
Nordost Odin 2 speaker cables are incredible. They went away from the sound of the Odin 1. It's far more natural , zero brightness, more relaxed and just superior to Odin 1. These cables I'm demoing have about 20 hours on them and they already feel more accurate than my Odin 1. Granted , these are a huge price tag but they already feel on another level than mine so I am just imagining what they will do once they are fully broken in. I wasn't supposed to try these cables becuase I knew this was going to happen. Ugh
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